Is Sunflower actually overrated? Defend the album.

[bringahorseinhere?]

Thanks Alan for that........I didn't even think about the Capitol/Warner-Reprise label thing......

Cheers,

RickB

[leggo of my ego]

  You're sitting in a dentist's chair

And muzaks playing for you there.


Now, how can you beat lyrics like that?

[leggo of my ego]

Bruce is Gilligan. 

or maybe Gilligan is Bruce. 

[bringahorseinhere?]

the world could come together as one...

if everybody under the sun......     bit of ol' Mikey lyrics there eh?   

RickB

[Micha]

I really like Tears in the Morning. Actually I really like pretty much everything Bruce ever wrote for group. Maybe I should re-post this in the Unpopular Opinions thread? 

You really should!

[Gabo]

Personally, it's a really un-Brian album. I remember in 2011 I celebrated the day TSS came out by listening to vinyl Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, SMiLE and Sunflower in a row. Sunflower didn't fit, it really is someone else's work. Good work still!

Sunflower is the first album since Pet Sounds where Brian sounds like he cared enough again to go the extra mile. I do agree that it's also the first album where the rest of the band solidly proved that they had creative talent of their own. These two factors collide to make Sunflower one of the band's best records.

Agree completely. That doesn't mean, however, that it is the band's Sgt Pepper, as its Wikipedia page states.

Nobody published has actually called it that,  including the cited link (the Pitchfork review of the Sunflower/Surf's Up two-fer). I hope a Wikipedian changes that.

[Quzi]

Personally, it's a really un-Brian album. I remember in 2011 I celebrated the day TSS came out by listening to vinyl Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, SMiLE and Sunflower in a row. Sunflower didn't fit, it really is someone else's work. Good work still!

Sunflower is the first album since Pet Sounds where Brian sounds like he cared enough again to go the extra mile. I do agree that it's also the first album where the rest of the band solidly proved that they had creative talent of their own. These two factors collide to make Sunflower one of the band's best records.

Agree completely. That doesn't mean, however, that it is the band's Sgt Pepper, as its Wikipedia page states.

Nobody published has actually called it that,  including the cited link (the Pitchfork review of the Sunflower/Surf's Up two-fer). I hope a Wikipedian changes that.

But Gabo, we are all Wikipedians. You possess the power to do these great things and if you believe in yourself, you can achieve anything.





But seriously, the new visual editor has greatly simplified the process. An edit like that would take > 20 seconds.

[SonicVolcano]

Call me insane, but I think At My Window is the best song on Sunflower. Just listen to those amazing harmonies. Bruce's voice suits this song perfectly. Oh boy, and when Brian adds his 'fly away' in the tag, holy sh*t.

[bonnevillemariner]

I mentioned this earlier but it passed without further comment.  I must be the only one who thinks the bg vocals and harmonies on Sunflower seem distant, almost purposely un-lush, even cartoonishly thin.  

UPDATE: I used to think it was just the production and the final product of mixing, but the a cappella version of This Whole World on MIC seems to disprove that theory.  Carl's lead is very full and lush, but listening to the bg vox without music, it seems almost like they were purposely sung "thin."

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Call me insane, but I think At My Window is the best song on Sunflower. Just listen to those amazing harmonies. Bruce's voice suits this song perfectly. Oh boy, and when Brian adds his 'fly away' in the tag, holy sh*t.

It's the bit when the accordion comes in and seems to suddenly increase and then decrease in volume that gets me!

[Bean Bag]

Call me insane, but I think At My Window is the best song on Sunflower. Just listen to those amazing harmonies. Bruce's voice suits this song perfectly. Oh boy, and when Brian adds his 'fly away' in the tag, holy sh*t.

I don't get the dislike for At My Window either.  It's such a pretty little tune.  Could have come straight off "Wild Honey" or "Friends."  LOVE IT.

 

[Bean Bag]

While programming my track order for Sunflower to include "Cotton Fields" as the lead off, I moved "Got to Know the Woman" to after "Deidre" -- rather than as the jarring interruption after the beautiful "Add Some Music."

Turns out, that's exactly what they did on the UK release, too!!     Never noticed that!

UK Sunflower
Cotton Fields
Slip On Through
This Whole World
Add Some Muzak
Deidre
Got To Know the Woman
etc...

I used the 20/20 version of Cotton Fields (or should I use the single version??) with the 2000 Sunflower remaster... since they sound similar, mastering-wise.  I hope ya'll give'r a try!!

[phirnis]

Call me insane, but I think At My Window is the best song on Sunflower. Just listen to those amazing harmonies. Bruce's voice suits this song perfectly. Oh boy, and when Brian adds his 'fly away' in the tag, holy sh*t.

I don't get the dislike for At My Window either.  It's such a pretty little tune.  Could have come straight off "Wild Honey" or "Friends."  LOVE IT.

 

Me too. Love Brian's spoken part with the beautiful accordeon part underneath. I don't mind it's essentially a rewrite of Raspberries Strawberries, as the BB clearly made it their own song. When I first heard Sunflower I thought At My Window was incredibly cute, in a good way. It's such a sweet and innocent little song with such a powerful coda.

[Smilin Ed H]

I think Forever, All I Wanna Do and This Whole World are masterpieces. Not keen on Got to Know the Woman or Deidre; otherwise love it - but I've always preferred Surf's Up. Would love to have a Sunflower 'sessions' box. I'm sure they could come up with another couple of discs to complement the album as is, even if they weren't all necessarily slated for the final album.

BTW count me as one of those who likes Tears in the Morning. For me, it's Bruce's other good track.

[alf wiedersehen]

While programming my track order for Sunflower to include "Cotton Fields" as the lead off, I moved "Got to Know the Woman" to after "Deidre" -- rather than as the jarring interruption after the beautiful "Add Some Music."

Turns out, that's exactly what they did on the UK release, too!!     Never noticed that!

UK Sunflower
Cotton Fields
Slip On Through
This Whole World
Add Some Muzak
Deidre
Got To Know the Woman
etc...

I used the 20/20 version of Cotton Fields (or should I use the single version??) with the 2000 Sunflower remaster... since they sound similar, mastering-wise.  I hope ya'll give'r a try!!

I tried it out.

I felt like "Cotton Fields" was a good opener with the few notes that are picked in the beginning. But, I felt like the transition to "Slip on Through" was a bit odd. Both make great openers, but don't work so well back to back. "Slip on Through" is a good opener because it starts quiet and and gets bigger, but that atmosphere is kind of ruined by it following "Cotton Fields."

I did like "Dierdre" following "Add Some Music to Your Day." It kinda has the same feeling and the intro is very nice and a suitable follow up. So, no complaints there.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I mentioned this earlier but it passed without further comment.  I must be the only one who thinks the bg vocals and harmonies on Sunflower seem distant, almost purposely un-lush, even cartoonishly thin.  

UPDATE: I used to think it was just the production and the final product of mixing, but the a cappella version of This Whole World on MIC seems to disprove that theory.  Carl's lead is very full and lush, but listening to the bg vox without music, it seems almost like they were purposely sung "thin."

I personally think the harmonies sound gorgeous and full on Sunflower. And it's also a matter of taking in the IDEA of what's being sung as much as simply hearing it.... The most recent Sunflower reissue (on Spotify at least) sounds a bit better than the 2000 2-fer, but if you really want proof the vocals weren't sung thin (I think I get what you mean by that upon listening) check out Desper's Cool Cool Water tutorial!

[Aric Keith]

The background vox on Sunflower are EQ'd and compressed to seem rather narrow- they aren't big and full in most places, even though the arrangements are big and full. This would be Desper's touch- the engineer and mixing engineer have the power to do that. That is how he felt they complemented the music best, in context. Now, we may or may not agree with him but it is part of the aesthetic he was after, no doubt.

Perhaps the album is overrated by some. I don't know. I do know that 25 years ago I got a copy of the sunflower/surf's up twofer on cassette, and those albums blew me away because I was hearing very post-60's music and big, stereo productions with the lush sounding, YOUNG sounding vocals. Albums that followed those tended to have the rough, abrasive harmonies that would characterize the group during the '70s. The songs on Sunflower really resonated with me, too, and they're all just very listenable tracks. Some even have a dynamic energy that demands my attention.

So the point is, not everyone has the same taste in music. It is, however, well-crafted music and showcases most of the members of the group in very good form.

Aric

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

...

You all praise the production quality.  I think it stinks, at least when it comes to bg vocals.  The harmonies are there-- they're just really, really thin.  Where did the lushness go?

...

I don't know, I think for the most part they're still pretty lush.  Have you listened to the a capella Slip on Through yet? 

Admittedly, there was less sort of pure double tracking, since Desper was playing around with stereo miking and such.  But goodness, I think the backing vocals are as good as it got on Sunflower.  The youth is starting to fade, but the skill and professionalism and versatility is really at its peak.  They were consummate by that point.

[Sheriff John Stone]

While programming my track order for Sunflower to include "Cotton Fields" as the lead off, I moved "Got to Know the Woman" to after "Deidre" -- rather than as the jarring interruption after the beautiful "Add Some Music."

Turns out, that's exactly what they did on the UK release, too!!     Never noticed that!

UK Sunflower
Cotton Fields
Slip On Through
This Whole World
Add Some Muzak
Deidre
Got To Know the Woman
etc...

I used the 20/20 version of Cotton Fields (or should I use the single version??) with the 2000 Sunflower remaster... since they sound similar, mastering-wise.  I hope ya'll give'r a try!!

I tried it out.

I felt like "Cotton Fields" was a good opener with the few notes that are picked in the beginning. But, I felt like the transition to "Slip on Through" was a bit odd. Both make great openers, but don't work so well back to back. "Slip on Through" is a good opener because it starts quiet and and gets bigger, but that atmosphere is kind of ruined by it following "Cotton Fields."

I did like "Dierdre" following "Add Some Music to Your Day." It kinda has the same feeling and the intro is very nice and a suitable follow up. So, no complaints there.

I'm a sequence freak, and Sunflower always seemed all over the place to me. I like to use this sequence; I like the flow and especially the lyrical sequence:

01 Add Some Music To Your Day
02 Got To Know The Woman
03 Slip On Through
04 Our Sweet Love
05 All I Wanna Do
06 Forever

07 Tears In The Morning
08 At My Window
09 This Whole World
10 Deidre
11 Cool, Cool Water
12 It's About Time

[Bean Bag]

I tried it out.

I felt like "Cotton Fields" was a good opener with the few notes that are picked in the beginning. But, I felt like the transition to "Slip on Through" was a bit odd. Both make great openers, but don't work so well back to back. "Slip on Through" is a good opener because it starts quiet and and gets bigger, but that atmosphere is kind of ruined by it following "Cotton Fields."

Good points.  Frankly, it's a big deal to fck with an album opener.  However, what I liked about Cotton Fields was it wasn't too demanding.  It kind of eased me in.  Sunflower's kind of a "heavy" album, and I liked the open, easy intro that CF gave it.

I did like "Dierdre" following "Add Some Music to Your Day." It kinda has the same feeling and the intro is very nice and a suitable follow up. So, no complaints there.

Yes and yes.  Honestly this might be the all that's needed.  I really feel like all the dislike we're seeing of Got To Know The Woman is related to it's position in the track list.  I shared similar dislike for this track.  However, I actually loved it following Deidre.  Kind of put some punch back, when it needs it.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I don't hate Sunflower. But its not in my top 5 Beach Boys albums.

I love:
At My Window
Its About Time
All I Wanna Do
This Whole World

Meh:
Add Some Music
Got to Know the Woman
Slip On Through
Cotton Fields (although, I don't have the UK version)

I always thought It's About Time would have made a great opening track and even a single along with This Whole World. IMO would have been a better push the ASM or SOT.

[Mr. Cohen]

Desper was great at making the harmonies really pop out, but I'll agree that way the vocals are EQ'd makes them sound thinner - precisely because certain frequencies are purposefully repressed. At times, such as on the tag of "This Whole World", I believe it also gave the vocals a slightly mechanical and overly sharp sound. It's a little too artificial.

[bonnevillemariner]

Desper was great at making the harmonies really pop out, but I'll agree that way the vocals are EQ'd makes them sound thinner - precisely because certain frequencies are purposefully repressed. At times, such as on the tag of "This Whole World", I believe it also gave the vocals a slightly mechanical and overly sharp sound. It's a little too artificial.

Agreed.  I love Sunflower, especially This Whole World, but every time I hear it (including the new a cappella version of This Whole World from MIC), I can't help but think how much better I'd like it if the vocals weren't mechanical/thin/repressed.  I respect Mr. Desper, but if that's what he was going for on that album I couldn't disagree more.

[TimmyC]

Sunflower took me a while to get into, and there a couple songs that don't work for me - namely, Got to Know the Woman and It's About Time (sorry, folks). But the rest of it is the post-smile 6 piece band at its peak. Superbly enjoyable with Dennis' best song - Slip On Through - and one of Brian's last true masterpieces in This Whole World. So no, it's definitely not overrated. That award EASILY goes to.... drum roll.... Holland.

[Micha]

Sunflower took me a while to get into, and there a couple songs that don't work for me - namely, Got to Know the Woman and It's About Time (sorry, folks). But the rest of it is the post-smile 6 piece band at its peak. Superbly enjoyable with Dennis' best song - Slip On Through - and one of Brian's last true masterpieces in This Whole World. So no, it's definitely not overrated. That award EASILY goes to.... drum roll.... Holland.

No, Love You!