Is Sunflower actually overrated? Defend the album.

[Smile4ever]

Sunflower is one of the most acclaimed albums of the band's career. It is certainly good. But I tend to think fans and critics may give it too much credit. I've heard some fans say Sunflower is equal to Pet Sounds, which is an opinion I find absurd. Hopefully most of you agree with me.

Anyway, why do you like Sunflower? Is the album actually a bit overrated? I'd like to hear the arguments.

[bringahorseinhere?]

Sorry, i'd go as far to say I actually enjoy it more than Pet Sounds....... and I LUV Pet Sounds.....

I think its the peacefulness, the vocal blend from all the guys....... I find Pet Sounds more like a Brian album, not Beach Boys...

Maybe its the vocals from Denny, Mike, Carl...... Brian's great background vocals....... it just sounds more group effort than PS...

Maybe the standout tracks like 'slip on through', 'this whole world', 'forever'..... 'tears'.... I would match those to any Pet Sounds song....

Great Topic, keen to hear what the other punters think....

RickB

[Ram4]

I know for me (and most fans would agree) it shows the Beach Boys as a BAND like no other album.  Dennis sings lead on 3 songs, Bruce sings lead on 3 songs!  Everyone stepped up and the outtakes have just as many strong songs that didn't make the album the easily could have.  It's no wonder over the years it has gained a lot of praise.  The engineering by Stephen Desper is top notch as well.  If we get to hear his true mixes someday (like Cool Cool Water where he shows you how it really could have all sounded), we will really be in for a treat.  You can easily hear how focused they were on the songs during these sessions.  Listen to the density of Slip On Through, or All I Wanna Do.  The beauty of Forever and Our Sweet Love.  The magic of Cool Cool Water.  The amazing key changes in This Whole World.  The group effort on Add Some Music To Your Day.  The rocking It's About Time.  The laid back Deidre or At My Window.  Etc!

I would love to have a Sunflower Sessions box someday!

[schiaffino]

IMO Sunflower is an average collection of song, nothing superb in terms of artistic achievement...but I think people in this board like it cause it was the most democratic BB album ever, showcasing also their individual growth as songwriters.

Now, wanna know a really, really overrated BB album? Holland 

[MBE]

I like it better than Pet Sounds too but both are right at the very top for me. It's just great fresh sounding, music.

[Mike's Beard]

One of their best. The only weak song on it is Got To Know The Woman and even that's not that bad. This should have been the album that brought the masses back to the band, not Endless Bummer.

[drbeachboy]

IMO Sunflower is an average collection of song, nothing superb in terms of artistic achievement...but I think people in this board like it cause it was the most democratic BB album ever, showcasing also their individual growth as songwriters.

Now, wanna know a really, really overrated BB album? Holland  

Honestly, I don't think I never liked an album or song because of democracy. Being GOOD is my main prerequisite.

[Wrightfan]

Not overrated but it could've been better with a few adjustments. I'd rather have a finished California Slide over Got to Know the Woman and Good Time over At my Window.

[schiaffino]

IMO Sunflower is an average collection of song, nothing superb in terms of artistic achievement...but I think people in this board like it cause it was the most democratic BB album ever, showcasing also their individual growth as songwriters.

Now, wanna know a really, really overrated BB album? Holland  

Honestly, I don't think I never liked an album or song because of democracy. Being GOOD is my main prerequisite.

[Gabo]

The main draw of Sunflower, for me, is All I Wanna Do, which is, in my opinion, one of the band's very best songs, above even most of the revered Pet Sounds and Smile material.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've always found this to be a complicated question or topic. After reading several positive reviews of Sunflower, and then finally purchasing it, I have to admit that I was slightly underwhelmed and would agree that it is overrated. But, when you take the album as a whole, with the exception of Love You, it might be the best post-Pet Sounds album. That IS probably because of the "group" feeling and no really bad songs.

It is so conflicting. You can hear Brian on a lot of the songs, yet he didn't have a single full lead vocal. Some of the songs are very strong - "Slip On Through", "This Whole World", "Add Some Music To Your Day", "All I Wanna Do" - yet some are only average - "Got To Know The Woman", "It's About Time", "Our Sweet Love", 'At My Window". I'm a Bruce Johnston fan but his two songs, "Deidre" and "Tears In The Morning", don't reach me like his other songs (and I even like "The Nearest Faraway Place"). "Forever" continues to be a classic, and that leaves "Cool, Cool Water", which I DO THINK is an overrated song and album closer.

So, its inconsistency makes me think it's overrated, but just slightly and, like virtually every other Beach Boys' album, the songs they left off - "Lady" (if it was available), "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", "Good Time" - would've made it a grade higher. It is so frustrating when you analyze it..

[TimeToGetAlone]

The main draw of Sunflower, for me, is All I Wanna Do, which is, in my opinion, one of the band's very best songs, above even most of the revered Pet Sounds and Smile material.

I have to agree with regards to this.  I tend to think production is responsible for a huge percentage of a song's enjoyment, and I can't think of more stunning production than on this track.

[DMBeard_13]

Sunflower doesn't need defending.  You either like it or you don't.

[Cam Mott]

I agree. I personally think it is over rated, by this board anyway.

[Smile4ever]

IMO Sunflower is an average collection of song, nothing superb in terms of artistic achievement...but I think people in this board like it cause it was the most democratic BB album ever, showcasing also their individual growth as songwriters.

Now, wanna know a really, really overrated BB album? Holland 

Haha I really agree with this. You're right on about Holland. And I think that people give this album too much credit because it was democratic. While nice, a democratic style does not necessarily mean the music will be goods. The album should be assessed for its musical merits. In that case, I think it falls far below the music Brian Wilson put out in the 60s (and later too).

[DonnyL]

Dense, complex arrangements, excellent engineering and the flawless production make Sunflower shine so bright. There's a lot of depth in this record and on Pet Sounds that is lacking on all of their other albums as a whole. It just has that 3-D quality.

The thing about Sunflower is that if you take any individual track (or specific element) out of context, something is lost. Greater than the sum of it's parts and all that ...

[Alan Smith]

Sunflower isn't overrated and easily earns its acclaim - just reel 'em off - a Brian classic (This Whole World); a mellow and beautiful Brian and Mike number; 3(!) Dennis numbers + a cowrite with Carl and Al; some compelling, honest and adult lyrics from Bruce; an exercise in soundscapes (Window); a fragment of Smile.  

A great clutch of songs approached as a group ensures the recording isn't affected by the production individualism that, for some, detracts from 20/20.  

And if that wasn't enough, throw in that some stellar production by Stephen W D.  Just great and deservedly so.

If you haven't already, get the 180g vinyl - it's a great package, and is a delicious treat on any half decent rig: (and a good reason to go vinyl if you're not seen the light).  Just I wish I had an SWD matrix decoder to hear the effects via analogue.

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

I find it a bit overrated as well. I actually like all three of the albums that followed it better, but I still like it quite a bit.

I have never understood the love for "All I Wanna Do." It's ok I guess, I just don't like the muddy production and Mike's vocal gets on my nerves. And there's some pretty worthless tunes on this record, which is what overrates it for me....

Stone Cold Classic:
This Whole World (probably my fave BB's song)

Great:
Forever
Slip On Through
Add Some Music
It's About Time
Cool, Cool Water

Ok/Good:
All I Wanna Do
Our Sweet Love (stellar CW vocal lifts this out of the next lowest category for me)

Take it or leave it:
Tears In The Morning
Deidre
Got To Know The Woman

Garbage:
At My Window (who's decision put this on the album? Blech)

This is probably my 6th-7th favorite album the band made.

[ThyRavenAscend]

For me, Sunflower is the most addicting Beach Boys album--but it is not their best.  I probably listen to Sunflower twice as much as any other Beach Boys album, but I don't consider it the BB's greatest achievement.  Here is my opinion of the quality of each track:

Amazing Tracks
Forever
Slip on Through
At My Window
Add Some Music to Your Day
Deirdre
This Whole World
Cool, Cool Water

Good Tracks
It’s About Time
Our Sweet Love

Decent Tracks
Tears in the Morning
All I Wanna Do

Less Than Decent Tracks
Got to Know the Woman

[Gabo]

I definitely consider Sunflower one of the band's best studio achievements. It was definitely their most cohesive since Pet Sounds, in large part because of Stephen Desper (bless his soul). It's just a lovely sounding record with an incredible amount of detail.

Surf's Up retains the amazing production of Sunflower, but it doesn't flow as well or feel as coherent. This is likely because several elements of the title track date to 1966, when Brian was still using the Wrecking Crew.

[runnersdialzero]

No, because you won't listen anyway Mr.Smile4ever all non-Brians in the band are untalented.

[Wirestone]

Like any classic album, Sunflower transcends hype. It is simply a rich, enjoyable, sunshine pop opus with everyone at the top of their game. Trends will come and go, but I'll still be able to listen to This Whole World, Cool Water and Our Sweet Love. Bliss.

[Gabo]

No, because you won't listen anyway Mr.Smile4ever all non-Brians in the band are untalented.

I don't know how someone could hear Feel Flows and Forever and say there was no talent in the group. The other Boys contributed greatly to the canon of songs.

This album and Surf's Up are probably the two best showcases of the talents of the rest of the group.

[Summer_Days]

I don't love Sunflower more or even as much as Pet Sounds...but then there is no other album I've ever heard in my life that I love as much as Pet Sounds, so...

Sunflower IS an incredible album though, and I think it definitely is the best group album they ever made. Well that and Wild Honey.

Not a bad song in the bunch, and several, like 'Slip On Through', 'This Whole World', 'Forever', 'Our Sweet Love', 'All I Wanna Do' and 'Cool, Cool Water' are some of the very best songs the band has ever done.

For a squabbling, half-mad band that has always pushed the ideas brotherhood and harmony angle for decades, Sunflower is the grand realization of that.

[MBE]

No, because you won't listen anyway Mr.Smile4ever all non-Brians in the band are untalented.

I don't know how someone could hear Feel Flows and Forever and say there was no talent in the group. The other Boys contributed greatly to the canon of songs.

This album and Surf's Up are probably the two best showcases of the talents of the rest of the group.

Not to mention some of Brian's best work too. They were all great in their own way, I love the BAND.