Post Release MIC Track Discussion

[Andrew G. Doe]

Endless Harmony was not compiled, mixed or mastered by Mark Linett.

... At least not the first issue with the ugly cover. He returned within a year or so to redo some things for the second version.

So there are two different mixes? Which cover is on which one?

First version, released in 1998:



Revised version, from 2000:



I believe there's a third version, too, that fixes some minor mistakes in one of those main two versions.

There is indeed version 1.0.1, but the only way you'll know is to listen: they used the wrong Promo in version 1.0 (what was said was at odds with the liner notes to that track).

[jeffcdo]

Compare Endless Harmony's stereo California Girls to MIC.

No takers?  C'mon try it, particularly with a good pair of headphones.

[Dave Modny]

Compare Endless Harmony's stereo California Girls to MIC.

No takers?  C'mon try it, particularly with a good pair of headphones.

My apologies, but what is it again that you're looking to compare -- mixing or mastering differences?

As noted, you have the first version of EH (or, perhaps, you have the slightly "fixed" issue of that), and that stereo mix of CG was done by Andrew Sandoval. It's the version with the second cover that has the mix done Mark Linett. So, at the very least, that one might be a better comparison with what's on MIC.

Also, when Linett's version came out, some people noticed that the syncing between the vocals and the backing track wasn't as precise as it might be. Perhaps, taking a cue from that, Mark re-did the stereo mix again a few years later for one of the other BB comps, and the syncing is a bit better there (it was either Classics or Sounds Of Summer, but I'm drawing a total blank right now as to exactly which one it was. I *think* it was Sounds Of Summer).

Sandoval's mix is much more straight forward, while Linett's more effect-laced. Apparently, the powers-that-be weren't happy with that first one, thus the re-do. Though, many fans actually prefer that simpler one.

[Wirestone]

Is it just me, or are the Mike's vocals after the Pony bit the same as the ones before the Pony bit.

It ain't just you.

[Wirestone]

I should also point out that, while Mark L. was not involved in the first Endless Harmony album release, Alan Boyd most definitely was (crossing over from his work on the documentary).

[jeffcdo]

My apologies, but what is it again that you're looking to compare -- mixing or mastering differences?

Both.  I was looking for points of comparison to illustrate how relatively treble-y and flat MIC seems to be.  But as you point out, I'm likely on the wrong track as this is comparing apples and oranges (or red apples to green apples) due to the different mixes.  I think the EH 1.0 version of California Girls has a much richer sound and a more logical soundstage.  It's more detailed (I can hear the bass strings vibrate when Carol starts her bum-ba-dee-da riff).  MIC sounds bright, somewhat harsh, the mix relatively confused, and the definition of the instruments isn't as precise.

[Dave Modny]

My apologies, but what is it again that you're looking to compare -- mixing or mastering differences?

Both.  I was looking for points of comparison to illustrate how relatively treble-y and flat MIC seems to be. But as you point out, I'm likely on the wrong track as this is comparing apples and oranges (or red apples to green apples) due to the different mixes.  I think the EH 1.0 version of California Girls has a much richer sound and a more logical soundstage.  It's more detailed (I can hear the bass strings vibrate when Carol starts her bum-ba-dee-da riff).  MIC sounds bright, somewhat harsh, the mix relatively confused, and the definition of the instruments isn't as precise.

Gotcha.

FWIW, I always preferred the Sandoval mix as well. The syncing was impeccable, and I personally feel that the drier, more straight-forward presentation worked just fine. About the only area where I could possibly envision (and agree on) the displeasure of the first mix by the powers-that-be was Brian's falsetto on the tag. A *bit* too naked and out front there, IMHO. Linett seemed to be going for a style that was either "vintage" or closer to his Pet Sounds stereo mix, though, as noted, it's certainly debatable whether adding those effects were actually an improvement.  

You already know my feelings on some of the MIC mastering choices from my "Marcella" comparison post, though I honestly haven't compared the new release of CG to any of ML's earlier ones.  

[Quzi]

I've read quite a few people express that the early-mid 1970s are underrepresented on Made in California, but I can't fully agree with those opinions.
 
A third of the concert performances are from 1972-1975, the era got a pretty generous showing of outtakes (including the band's most talked about rarity) and around 40% of the album tracks between Surf's Up and Holland were included. Realistically how much more space could be devoted to them without giving the era undue weight? If you can believe it, proportionately speaking, the output on Smiley Smile to Sunflower is less represented.

Breaking from fact and throwing a little conjecture into the mix, I feel the demand for spotlighting this material is partially derived by how they're not as respected to the extent that they should be in the classic rock community. I think this leads people to believe this serious 70s rock would cause mass cultural reassessment and appoint them beside the Beatles in the annals of pop music. I thought this way at the start of my fandom, but now I recognise that the release of something like "We Got Love" just ain't gonna shake the world's status quo. Not a groundbreaking hypothesis, I've read it many times before, but now I'm really starting to understand it.

[Micha]

Huh huh huh, he said hard-core, huh, huh

A bit late now, but this just made me laugh!

[buddhahat]

Is it just me, or are the Mike's vocals after the Pony bit the same as the ones before the Pony bit.

It ain't just you.

Hadn't noticed this.

This is exactly why I should keep away from the board after these big archival releases! I just don't want to peek behind the curtain and pull the mixes apart. I have sufficient lack of understanding of recording, mixing, mastering etc. to be able to take, and enjoy, most of Linett's work at face value eg. the new mix of Do It Again which is outstanding.

The only track where I feel too much unnecessary technology has been applied for my tastes is Sail Plane Song but it's fun and I'm sure many will enjoy the psychedelic effects.

[metal flake paint]

Endless Harmony was not compiled, mixed or mastered by Mark Linett.

... At least not the first issue with the ugly cover. He returned within a year or so to redo some things for the second version.

So there are two different mixes? Which cover is on which one?

First version, released in 1998:



Revised version, from 2000:



I believe there's a third version, too, that fixes some minor mistakes in one of those main two versions.

Apparently EH was issued four times:

The original version, the original version (with Dennis's corrected promo), a second version & the second version including Mark Linett's remix credits previously omitted.

Linett's adjustments to Sandoval's version include:

Correct version of Dennis Wilson's radio concert promo,

Punchier and slightly sped up mix of the hits medley,

Acappela mix, as opposed to binaural mix, of Surfer Girl,

Kiss Me Baby, California Girls stereo remixes,

Darlin' (live) remix,

Do It Again (early version) remix, slightly sped up and restores the bars that were edited from the fade in Sandoval's version,

Re-equalized and re-edited Heroes and Villains demo, and

a hidden bonus track at the end of Endless Harmony ("...kiss a little bit and fight a little bit...")

[Freddie French-Pounce]

Endless Harmony was not compiled, mixed or mastered by Mark Linett.

... At least not the first issue with the ugly cover. He returned within a year or so to redo some things for the second version.

So there are two different mixes? Which cover is on which one?

First version, released in 1998:



Revised version, from 2000:



I believe there's a third version, too, that fixes some minor mistakes in one of those main two versions.

Apparently EH was issued four times:

The original version, the original version (with Dennis's corrected promo), a second version & the second version including Mark Linett's remix credits previously omitted.

Linett's adjustments to Sandoval's version include:

Correct version of Dennis Wilson's radio concert promo,

Punchier and slightly sped up mix of the hits medley,

Acappela mix, as opposed to binaural mix, of Surfer Girl,

Kiss Me Baby, California Girls stereo remixes,

Darlin' (live) remix,

Do It Again (early version) remix, slightly sped up and restores the bars that were edited from the fade in Sandoval's version,

Re-equalized and re-edited Heroes and Villains demo, and

a hidden bonus track at the end of Endless Harmony ("...kiss a little bit and fight a little bit...")

Maybe i should get one of the other versions. I've only got version one, never seen a UK version other

[drbeachboy]

My apologies, but what is it again that you're looking to compare -- mixing or mastering differences?

Both.  I was looking for points of comparison to illustrate how relatively treble-y and flat MIC seems to be.  But as you point out, I'm likely on the wrong track as this is comparing apples and oranges (or red apples to green apples) due to the different mixes.  I think the EH 1.0 version of California Girls has a much richer sound and a more logical soundstage.  It's more detailed (I can hear the bass strings vibrate when Carol starts her bum-ba-dee-da riff).  MIC sounds bright, somewhat harsh, the mix relatively confused, and the definition of the instruments isn't as precise.

Also, Sandoval's overall sound is closer to the single mix of the mono, while Linett's sounds more like the mono LP mix. Listen to the horns, drums, background vocals and Brian's vocal on the chorus.

[Pablo.]

3 - What's the story with the backing tracks of "Soul searchin'" and "You're still a mystery"? For years it has been said that the bootlegged versions were the vocals from the Was session flown into the Paley instrumental tracks. The MIC versions are basically the same than the Landylocked  ones (or also, in the case of "SS", The GIOMH version) Who is credited with the production on the MIC liners? Of course this will be cleared with the soon-to-be-online C-Man's session research...

On SS, the production credit is: BW, AP and DW
On YSAM, the credit it: DW, BW and AP

My suspicion is that YSAM actually uses the Was instrumental track, which is why he's credited first.

Could this be a case of Brian re-recording his lead for YSAM during the Was-produced sessions for his new album?

[Wirestone]

3 - What's the story with the backing tracks of "Soul searchin'" and "You're still a mystery"? For years it has been said that the bootlegged versions were the vocals from the Was session flown into the Paley instrumental tracks. The MIC versions are basically the same than the Landylocked  ones (or also, in the case of "SS", The GIOMH version) Who is credited with the production on the MIC liners? Of course this will be cleared with the soon-to-be-online C-Man's session research...

On SS, the production credit is: BW, AP and DW
On YSAM, the credit it: DW, BW and AP

My suspicion is that YSAM actually uses the Was instrumental track, which is why he's credited first.

Could this be a case of Brian re-recording his lead for YSAM during the Was-produced sessions for his new album?

Regardless of some recent press accounts, the only official word we've had on the new album's production is that Joe Thomas is involved. Was is simply playing bass.

Although ... it's an interesting theory.

[buddhahat]

Man, Slip On Through A Cappella reveals some seriously intricate vocal parts.

Possible stupid question: Did Brian do all the vocal arranging, or did the other members take over some of these duties post Smile? I assume the backing vocals on Slip On Through are Brian's arrangement, but maybe not.

[buddhahat]

OK whilst I'm generally revealing my lack of BB expertise might as well admit the following:

I never paid Sherry She needs Me much attention, assuming it was a Four Seasons cover or something. I had no idea it was a BB original and what an incredible song it is too. Quite strange hearing the 65 track with the 70s vocal but in a good way. Quite a revelation for me, this one.

[wantsomecorn]

I've never been much of a fan of Vegetables, but I absolutely love the new live version. The cheesy sound effects (those good old synthesized whistles...) somehow sound more natural than any of the studio versions. It sounds like children's music, but really enjoyable children's music.

[The Shift]

Not half-way through this set yet but it's jolly good, isn't it!   

[Shady]

I am very, very happy with this box set.

So much great stuff!

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Man, Slip On Through A Cappella reveals some seriously intricate vocal parts.

Possible stupid question: Did Brian do all the vocal arranging, or did the other members take over some of these duties post Smile? I assume the backing vocals on Slip On Through are Brian's arrangement, but maybe not.

This is my favorite track from the box set.

To me, the vocals on Slip on Through just sound very collaborative.  They probably took what they learned and threw stuff out there.

[Les P]

My immediate takeaway upon first listen:  these guys could do ANYTHING with their voices.

The song I've returned to the most is "Barnyard Blues."  Just love the groove on this!

Still absorbing the whole thing...

[runnersdialzero]

Apparently EH was issued four times:

Thanks for the notes! For the completist, this stuff is good to know.

[metal flake paint]

Apparently EH was issued four times:

Thanks for the notes! For the completist, this stuff is good to know.

No worries.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Ok, listened to the full set in order yesterday in one mammoth sitting. As a career-retrospective it really works amazingly well - to me, it more accurately represents what was happening when and who was doing what during the various stages of their career than Good Vibrations did.

I'm still desperately unhappy with what's happened to You've Lost That Loving Feelin' - the bootleg is just so much more powerful - and I'd say Sail Plane Song is an interesting failure... Oh, and just a few more rarities and personal faves (All I Wanna Do, Where I Belong) would've been nice...

Otherwise I'm happy with it! This is going to be a present for several friends and family from me this Xmas. Sod the cost, spreading the gospel is more important!