WIBNTLA Reviews

[bgas]

I love the song, although it does have a lot of Cuddle Up in it in places.

Dennis was singing so well from 69-71. Be With Me, Slip on Through, Forever, Sound of Free, Lady, WIBNTLA all have great vocals. Damn what he could have done if he could have controlled his addictions.

If I were Carl I would have begged Dennis to compromise.

I said this before, but when we hear about how Dennis and Carl wanted the group to be more contemporary instead of oldies-oriented in the mid-'70s, it drives me crazy to think of the opportunity lost here. I think the one chance the Beach Boys had to really make a big comeback was the Surf's Up album.

Sunflower was terrific, but the group was still thought of as "surfing Doris Days." By the time Surf's Up came out, Jack Rieley had rebuilt their "cred" and the addition of Surf's Up as a track generated a lot of interest. Surf's Up with 4th of July and WIBNTLA on it may not have been a grand slam, but it would have a been a three-run double. Instead, it was more than a bunt, it was a solid RBI single, but it could have been the true smash they needed with two more killer tracks.

I just wish Dennis and Carl had flipped a coin and let the winner determine sequencing.

I got into my time machine, went back, and found that they had indeed flipped a coin, with Carl winning the toss...

[Sound of Free]

I love the song, although it does have a lot of Cuddle Up in it in places.

Dennis was singing so well from 69-71. Be With Me, Slip on Through, Forever, Sound of Free, Lady, WIBNTLA all have great vocals. Damn what he could have done if he could have controlled his addictions.

If I were Carl I would have begged Dennis to compromise.

I said this before, but when we hear about how Dennis and Carl wanted the group to be more contemporary instead of oldies-oriented in the mid-'70s, it drives me crazy to think of the opportunity lost here. I think the one chance the Beach Boys had to really make a big comeback was the Surf's Up album.

Sunflower was terrific, but the group was still thought of as "surfing Doris Days." By the time Surf's Up came out, Jack Rieley had rebuilt their "cred" and the addition of Surf's Up as a track generated a lot of interest. Surf's Up with 4th of July and WIBNTLA on it may not have been a grand slam, but it would have a been a three-run double. Instead, it was more than a bunt, it was a solid RBI single, but it could have been the true smash they needed with two more killer tracks.

I just wish Dennis and Carl had flipped a coin and let the winner determine sequencing.

I got into my time machine, went back, and found that they had indeed flipped a coin, with Carl winning the toss...

I wrote that badly. I meant that Dennis' songs are definitely on the album, but the toss winner gets to determine where.

[18thofMay]

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.

That would be the board where the founder claimed Capitol were prepared to pull the entire Smile Sessions box because FANS ACTUALLY ASKED THEM FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BUYING IT ? 

It's also the board where you could start a thread about an obscure Peruvian nose flute band and it would somehow become a thread about The Beatles.

Not a Peruvian nose flute band but could of played on vege-tables

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOmcew2DtTE

[Mike's Beard]

I was thinking.... We could very well be debating here how Sunflower would have sold gazilliosn if it had included Forever, Slip on Through, We Got Time and Got to Know the Woman.... If Dennis had withdeawn his tracks in THAT album. 

True. Dennis was writing some great stuff but nothing other than several albums of Brian back to a full return to form could have dragged the group out the trenches.

[Nicko1234]

I said this before, but when we hear about how Dennis and Carl wanted the group to be more contemporary instead of oldies-oriented in the mid-'70s, it drives me crazy to think of the opportunity lost here. I think the one chance the Beach Boys had to really make a big comeback was the Surf's Up album.

Including Dennis's two songs probably wouldn't have helped sales particularly.

It's interesting that in spite of the fine music that Dennis wrote for the group, it was mostly issued on albums that sold badly (Holland excepted). From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career...

[Jon Stebbins]

Including Dennis's two songs probably wouldn't have helped sales particularly.

It's interesting that in spite of the fine music that Dennis wrote for the group, it was mostly issued on albums that sold badly (Holland excepted). From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career...

I think Dennis buried that trend by outselling two Beach Boys albums (MIU, LA Light) with POB. Your comment "From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career..." Please explain that theory to us.

[Nicko1234]

I think Dennis buried that trend by outselling two Beach Boys albums (MIU, LA Light) with POB. Your comment "From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career..." Please explain that theory to us.

Not a theory. Just a simple look at the facts. Al contributed Cottonfields, Lady Lynda and Come go With Me which were all big hits for the group. California Saga was also a single and a minor hit. None of Dennis's songs with the group were hits and, as I said, with the group his songs featured on albums that generally didn't sell well.

[Mike's Beard]

The UK loved a bit of Jardine.

[Jon Stebbins]

I think Dennis buried that trend by outselling two Beach Boys albums (MIU, LA Light) with POB. Your comment "From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career..." Please explain that theory to us.

Not a theory. Just a simple look at the facts. Al contributed Cottonfields, Lady Lynda and Come go With Me which were all big hits for the group. California Saga was also a single and a minor hit. None of Dennis's songs with the group were hits and, as I said, with the group his songs featured on albums that generally didn't sell well.

So wait...you use the criteria that the albums didn't sell well (which they didn't in the US, but DID in the UK and Europe)...and then you back up your point by using two UK hit singles as examples. Huh? The albums with Dennis songs sold great in the UK and Europe (20/20 went to #3 in the UK, Sunflower was top 30 or better in a bunch of countries)...was Cottonfields a big hit in the US? Was Lady Lynda a "big hit" in the US, oh yeah #39 Adult Contemporary?  Granted "Come Go With Me" was a decent hit, but it came from an album that sold half of what POB did. I think you stumbled on your own logic there. Are we in agreement with the fact that both DW's and Al's songs were on albums that sold poorly in the US, and sold well in Europe? And I'll agree...Al did have nice success with two singles in the UK. BTW Dennis had a #16 LP in the UK...higher than any BB's solo record other than BWPS. And one fact remains, POB in its two incarnations has sold over 400,000 copies worldwide RIAA confirmed. I'm thinking Postcard From California might be a little short of that.

[Dave Modny]

Still soaking this in today. It really was worth every second of the wait (IMHO).


The weird thing...is even though we all had the stellar Adam/Evie version burned into our brains (or the Boyd piano recording) -- which in some ways is unfair to any "surprise element" that comes with listening to an original recording for the first time...in reverse -- the whole vibe here kind of caught me off-guard, even though I always said that I could fully imagine the track in my head. So ethereal. And while I must confess that I miss some of the thick harmonies of Adam's version, and would've loved to heard this layered with more of the BB's voices, the whole thing sounds like a lovely dream.

Is it Dennis's "best song" ever or "best vocal" ever? I don't know. It never really had to be that for me to still be a winner, and it's always going to be hard to to top stuff like Be With Me, Celebrate The News, Lady and Slip On Through for me (all great songs AND great vocal performances IMO), but it's certainly right up there at the top, and easily the biggest crown jewel to come out of the well in some time. I love those double-tracked, higher, sustained whole notes. Dennis was definitely singing for "all his life" here. In some alternate universe, it might be fun to dream about what other things might've been added to it before, and had it been released. As it stands, it's still pretty damned-well perfect.


Also, I gotta say, considering that he simply heard this over the phone a couple of times, it's amazing how much Adam nailed the arrangement on his cover. Even the slight differences seem like they could've always been there.

[drbeachboy]

It's a grower, I'll say that. I like it more & more as I keep replaying it.

[Nicko1234]

So wait...you use the criteria that the albums didn't sell well (which they didn't in the US, but DID in the UK and Europe)...and then you back up your point by using two UK hit singles as examples. Huh? The albums with Dennis songs sold great in the UK and Europe (20/20 went to #3 in the UK, Sunflower was top 30 or better in a bunch of countries)...was Cottonfields a big hit in the US? Was Lady Lynda a "big hit" in the US, oh yeah #39 Adult Contemporary?  Granted "Come Go With Me" was a decent hit, but it came from an album that sold half of what POB did. I think you stumbled on your own logic there. Are we in agreement with the fact that both DW's and Al's songs were on albums that sold poorly in the US, and sold well in Europe? And I'll agree...Al did have nice success with two singles in the UK. BTW Dennis had a #16 LP in the UK...higher than any BB's solo record other than BWPS. And one fact remains, POB in its two incarnations has sold over 400,000 copies worldwide RIAA confirmed. I'm thinking Postcard From California might be a little short of that.

Sorry Jon but I think we are talking at tangents here. I agree that Dennis's album did fine. Which is why I stressed that I was talking about the group's record sales. Not sure why you are mentioning Postcard from California as it obviously wasn't a Beach Boys release. Of course Dennis was more successful as a solo artist than Al has been. Nobody has ever suggested anything different.

What I'm saying really isn't controversial. In the U.K. the group had hit albums to varying degrees throughout this period but whether Dennis had any songs on the albums didn't seem to particularly affect this. Friends did worse than Wild Honey and Sunflower (Cottonfields being its hit single anyway) did worse than Surf's Up. 20/20 did very well but I would suggest that the inclusion of 3 hit singles including a number one hit had a lot more to do with that than Dennis's contributions.

Also, I think we would all agree that it would have been nice if Dennis had been represented on In Concert. But he wasn't and it still sold well.

And you said it yourself as well. Dennis contributed to LA and it didn't sell as well as POB.
 

[Jon Stebbins]

So wait...you use the criteria that the albums didn't sell well (which they didn't in the US, but DID in the UK and Europe)...and then you back up your point by using two UK hit singles as examples. Huh? The albums with Dennis songs sold great in the UK and Europe (20/20 went to #3 in the UK, Sunflower was top 30 or better in a bunch of countries)...was Cottonfields a big hit in the US? Was Lady Lynda a "big hit" in the US, oh yeah #39 Adult Contemporary?  Granted "Come Go With Me" was a decent hit, but it came from an album that sold half of what POB did. I think you stumbled on your own logic there. Are we in agreement with the fact that both DW's and Al's songs were on albums that sold poorly in the US, and sold well in Europe? And I'll agree...Al did have nice success with two singles in the UK. BTW Dennis had a #16 LP in the UK...higher than any BB's solo record other than BWPS. And one fact remains, POB in its two incarnations has sold over 400,000 copies worldwide RIAA confirmed. I'm thinking Postcard From California might be a little short of that.

Sorry Jon but I think we are talking at tangents here. I agree that Dennis's album did fine. Which is why I stressed that I was talking about the group's record sales. Not sure why you are mentioning Postcard from California as it obviously wasn't a Beach Boys release. Of course Dennis was more successful as a solo artist than Al has been. Nobody has ever suggested anything different.

What I'm saying really isn't controversial. In the U.K. the group had hit albums to varying degrees throughout this period but whether Dennis had any songs on the albums didn't seem to particularly affect this. Friends did worse than Wild Honey and Sunflower (Cottonfields being its hit single anyway) did worse than Surf's Up. 20/20 did very well but I would suggest that the inclusion of 3 hit singles including a number one hit had a lot more to do with that than Dennis's contributions.

Also, I think we would all agree that it would have been nice if Dennis had been represented on In Concert. But he wasn't and it still sold well.

And you said it yourself as well. Dennis contributed to LA and it didn't sell as well as POB.
 

I agree bringing the solo work into is out of context, but i think you got that ball rolling in your post. Anyway, I think we can agree that all of them were talented, all of them contributed to major hits. To what degree each guy contributed is an arguable subject.

[musicismylife101]

Just listened to it today. The song is just beautiful. Dennis's vocals, the arrangement, the whole song is just...wow. Not sure I can really put it into words. Just the first few seconds and I knew it was going to be great.

[Wirestone]

So wait...you use the criteria that the albums didn't sell well (which they didn't in the US, but DID in the UK and Europe)...and then you back up your point by using two UK hit singles as examples. Huh? The albums with Dennis songs sold great in the UK and Europe (20/20 went to #3 in the UK, Sunflower was top 30 or better in a bunch of countries)...was Cottonfields a big hit in the US? Was Lady Lynda a "big hit" in the US, oh yeah #39 Adult Contemporary?  Granted "Come Go With Me" was a decent hit, but it came from an album that sold half of what POB did. I think you stumbled on your own logic there. Are we in agreement with the fact that both DW's and Al's songs were on albums that sold poorly in the US, and sold well in Europe? And I'll agree...Al did have nice success with two singles in the UK. BTW Dennis had a #16 LP in the UK...higher than any BB's solo record other than BWPS. And one fact remains, POB in its two incarnations has sold over 400,000 copies worldwide RIAA confirmed. I'm thinking Postcard From California might be a little short of that.

Sorry Jon but I think we are talking at tangents here. I agree that Dennis's album did fine. Which is why I stressed that I was talking about the group's record sales. Not sure why you are mentioning Postcard from California as it obviously wasn't a Beach Boys release. Of course Dennis was more successful as a solo artist than Al has been. Nobody has ever suggested anything different.

What I'm saying really isn't controversial. In the U.K. the group had hit albums to varying degrees throughout this period but whether Dennis had any songs on the albums didn't seem to particularly affect this. Friends did worse than Wild Honey and Sunflower (Cottonfields being its hit single anyway) did worse than Surf's Up. 20/20 did very well but I would suggest that the inclusion of 3 hit singles including a number one hit had a lot more to do with that than Dennis's contributions.

Also, I think we would all agree that it would have been nice if Dennis had been represented on In Concert. But he wasn't and it still sold well.

And you said it yourself as well. Dennis contributed to LA and it didn't sell as well as POB.
 

I agree bringing the solo work into is out of context, but i think you got that ball rolling in your post. Anyway, I think we can agree that all of them were talented, all of them contributed to major hits. To what degree each guy contributed is an arguable subject.

I think his main point is that Dennis didn't write or produce any hits, and Al did. Which is true. Al arguably had better commercial instincts.

But that has nothing to do with the quality of Dennis's work, one way or another. Tom Waits will never sell as many records as Miley Cyrus, but that doesn't prove anything about the worth of their respective oeuvres.

... Although certain Mike Love boosters may disagree on this point. 

[Mitchell]

Very few moments can top my hearing this song for the first time.

[Nicko1234]

But that has nothing to do with the quality of Dennis's work, one way or another. Tom Waits will never sell as many records as Miley Cyrus, but that doesn't prove anything about the worth of their respective oeuvres.

Absolutely true. But the post I was replying to earlier asserted that if WIBNTLA had been included on Surf's Up then it would have been a massive album. So my point was that there is nothing in the group's history that backs that up.

[Jon Stebbins]

So wait...you use the criteria that the albums didn't sell well (which they didn't in the US, but DID in the UK and Europe)...and then you back up your point by using two UK hit singles as examples. Huh? The albums with Dennis songs sold great in the UK and Europe (20/20 went to #3 in the UK, Sunflower was top 30 or better in a bunch of countries)...was Cottonfields a big hit in the US? Was Lady Lynda a "big hit" in the US, oh yeah #39 Adult Contemporary?  Granted "Come Go With Me" was a decent hit, but it came from an album that sold half of what POB did. I think you stumbled on your own logic there. Are we in agreement with the fact that both DW's and Al's songs were on albums that sold poorly in the US, and sold well in Europe? And I'll agree...Al did have nice success with two singles in the UK. BTW Dennis had a #16 LP in the UK...higher than any BB's solo record other than BWPS. And one fact remains, POB in its two incarnations has sold over 400,000 copies worldwide RIAA confirmed. I'm thinking Postcard From California might be a little short of that.

Sorry Jon but I think we are talking at tangents here. I agree that Dennis's album did fine. Which is why I stressed that I was talking about the group's record sales. Not sure why you are mentioning Postcard from California as it obviously wasn't a Beach Boys release. Of course Dennis was more successful as a solo artist than Al has been. Nobody has ever suggested anything different.

What I'm saying really isn't controversial. In the U.K. the group had hit albums to varying degrees throughout this period but whether Dennis had any songs on the albums didn't seem to particularly affect this. Friends did worse than Wild Honey and Sunflower (Cottonfields being its hit single anyway) did worse than Surf's Up. 20/20 did very well but I would suggest that the inclusion of 3 hit singles including a number one hit had a lot more to do with that than Dennis's contributions.

Also, I think we would all agree that it would have been nice if Dennis had been represented on In Concert. But he wasn't and it still sold well.

And you said it yourself as well. Dennis contributed to LA and it didn't sell as well as POB.
 

I agree bringing the solo work into is out of context, but i think you got that ball rolling in your post. Anyway, I think we can agree that all of them were talented, all of them contributed to major hits. To what degree each guy contributed is an arguable subject.

I think his main point is that Dennis didn't write or produce any hits, and Al did. Which is true. Al arguably had better commercial instincts.

And ironically...Al has told me directly, and I think has said in print, that Dennis encouraged him to push Cottonfields into a more "country" direction than he originally intended, and also helped him with the arrangement of Lady Lynda. Interesting.

[Don Malcolm]

Don't recall anyone saying that SU (the LP) would have been "massive" as a result of WIBNTLA. Don't have the time to go back into the posts to look, apologies for that.

What I said (around page 6, IIRC) was that I felt WIBNTLA had a shot to be an FM hit had it been included on the LP back in 1971. That's based on having listened to FM radio in that era. My recollection was that four cuts from the LP got some FM airplay in the fall of '71: SU, LPR, FF, SDT. Two of these were singles in the US; LPR's second issue as a single occurred as the SU album reached its peak on the charts, but didn't do anything for the LP. LPR wasn't probably going to work in either AM or FM formats: it was a "tweener." There wasn't really an AM song on the LP.

WIBNTLA might well have gotten a lot of FM play at the time, because it fits in more with that format than any of the other cuts. (The next best song for that, IMO, was FF, and I did hear it a number of times on FM in the fall/winter of '71.) It seemed that SU was played on FM as an "album cut" prior to its release as a single (which must have been a "hail Mary" on WB's part, hoping that the prestige of the song would give it airplay).

Of course, it's all moot...but I can easily see the song getting solid FM airplay and making a solid contribution to the overall change in direction that was being put into play. That direction continued with five uptempo numbers on CATP, and FM radio might have been more receptive to some of those cuts with a song like WIBNTLA out there in the zeitgeist. Up-tempo cuts were the BBs' bread and butter in the 60s, they weren't likely to score with anything else (and they never did, wonderful as many of the ballads are). And while WIBNTLA isn't the usual "up-tempo" song by any means, it's got the type of groove that worked a lot on FM--a ballad with a bit of blues and a hypnotic rock solo.

Far more important to the ongoing situation that the BBs were grappling with in 71-72 are two items, in inverse order of significance: Dennis' hand injury, which forced changes to the band in a number of ways and pushed him away from the core creative direction; and Brian's deeper descent into depression and drugs. I don't think WIBNTLA solves any of that, but some FM success might have left the band more positively disposed to Dennis' work.

[seltaeb1012002]

WIBNTLA has one of the best tags in the entire BB's discography. Starting from the part where Carl's solo line comes in.. then the flute.. that piano fill.. and the final section fade. Wow. Perfect.

Tom Waits will never sell as many records as Miley Cyrus, but that doesn't prove anything about the worth of their respective oeuvres.

Yeah, but who twerks better?  

[grillo]

Dennis' hand injury, which forced changes to the band in a number of ways and pushed him away from the core creative direction; ... I don't think WIBNTLA solves any of that, but some FM success might have left the band more positively disposed to Dennis' work.

I always felt that Dennis gained some creative control when he hurt his hand. Like once he wasn't stuck behind the drums he could express himself at the piano, or he could stand up front and just sing with the guys,  and even Mike thought his songs were beautiful, so I always imagined it was Dennis that kept his own songs off the records. But, yeah, a hit would've been amazing!

[joe_blow]

Cottonfields wasn't really written by Al, nor was Come Go With Me, and the catchy intro to Lady Lynda was certainy not written by Al. California has also been comapred to a reworking of California Girls. Now if you talk about as lead vocalists, I would say Al contributed to the sales most greatly in Help Me Rhonda, wheras Dennis' would be Do You Wanna Dance.

[Wirestone]

Cottonfields wasn't really written by Al, nor was Come Go With Me, and the catchy intro to Lady Lynda was certainy not written by Al. California has also been comapred to a reworking of California Girls. Now if you talk about as lead vocalists, I would say Al contributed to the sales most greatly in Help Me Rhonda, wheras Dennis' would be Do You Wanna Dance.

Nah, but he produced most of them, and oversaw the vocal arrangements and sang lead. Let's give the man some credit. Phil Spector didn't write his songs either, but he sure knew something about making hit records.

[urbanite]

Who produced WIBNTLA?

[Nicko1234]

Don't recall anyone saying that SU (the LP) would have been "massive" as a result of WIBNTLA. Don't have the time to go back into the posts to look, apologies for that.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you. What you say about WIBNTLA getting some airplay is perfectly possible.