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Author Topic: WIBNTLA Reviews  (Read 72715 times)
runnersdialzero
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« Reply #300 on: August 26, 2013, 01:35:04 PM »

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented? That is, he describes drums coming in where they don't exactly come in here. Also, kind of interesting how the drum kit/track is mixed wide across the entire stereo spectrum on this new release.

Can you make any other observations, Eric? Does what's common between the two mixes/versions sound exactly the same to your ears?

TIA!

I really doubt it's a new drum track or any new instruments, they know the fanbase would frown upon that kind of stuff (generally!).  I imagine it's just a different mix they had at the time that had some differences in stylistic choices.
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« Reply #301 on: August 26, 2013, 01:44:57 PM »

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented? That is, he describes drums coming in where they don't exactly come in here. Also, kind of interesting how the drum kit/track is mixed wide across the entire stereo spectrum on this new release.

Can you make any other observations, Eric? Does what's common between the two mixes/versions sound exactly the same to your ears?

TIA!

I really doubt it's a new drum track or any new instruments, they know the fanbase would frown upon that kind of stuff (generally!).  I imagine it's just a different mix they had at the time that had some differences in stylistic choices.


What's kind of interesting (to me anyway...lol) is that a droning kick comes in at about the 0:32 mark on the new release, while the rest of the full-blown kit comes in at around the 0:48 mark. Whereas, on Eric's version he simply notes the "drums" coming in at the 0:39 mark. Thus, I'm really curious as to what is exactly on his version. Namely, whether or not there are no drums/percussion/kick at all up to the 0:39 mark on his mix.
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« Reply #302 on: August 26, 2013, 01:49:32 PM »

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.


Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

"My version"?? To my knowledge it has never ever been booted...(?) What boot is the "demo" on??

Sorry to sound like an ass, but given his description, it's not a demo, but an alternate mix.

Interesting, though. I'm sure it was being mixed back then with "It's gonna be on a hits package" in mind, thus why it's shorter etc. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I'd have really preferred the whole thing have been released. If Dennis meant for the song to fade like this right where it does, then fair enough, but shoot - like I said in the other thread, you really start to "feel" the end section right as it's fading out.

Hopefully some day. ;(

I agree that it would be awesome to hear the "complete" version, but in the defense of the guys in The Beach Boys and the compilers of the set, apparently Dennis himself was the one who thought the "official" version of the song ends where it does. This is according to AGD of course, but yeah. So I think it's right that this version is the way it is. However, now that it's out, maybe on another collection they can issue the "longer, complete version" and therefore count that as an unreleased track. Wouldn't doubt that it's not part of BRI's thinking right now.
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« Reply #303 on: August 26, 2013, 02:00:01 PM »

One thing I do have to say: those back-and-forth flutes annoy me...
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« Reply #304 on: August 26, 2013, 02:18:11 PM »


I agree that it would be awesome to hear the "complete" version, but in the defense of the guys in The Beach Boys and the compilers of the set, apparently Dennis himself was the one who thought the "official" version of the song ends where it does. This is according to AGD of course, but yeah. So I think it's right that this version is the way it is. However, now that it's out, maybe on another collection they can issue the "longer, complete version" and therefore count that as an unreleased track. Wouldn't doubt that it's not part of BRI's thinking right now.


My only thought would be that, without actually hearing what took place musically on the multitrack after the fade, we should probably use caution in terming it a "complete version" (your correct quotes duly noted) -- mostly out of fear of that term somehow catching on.  That is, it may simply be "stuff" that was captured with the record button on. I reckon there's good reason why it fades where it does on *both* of the noted mixes. As also noted, some of which have already been expressed by those in the know.

That said, I love that tag so much that I too wouldn't mind hearing it go on for another 20-30 seconds or so, and/or perhaps as a looonnnng fadeout into the ether, (of course, assuming it was musically usable/good). : )
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« Reply #305 on: August 26, 2013, 03:01:18 PM »


I agree that it would be awesome to hear the "complete" version, but in the defense of the guys in The Beach Boys and the compilers of the set, apparently Dennis himself was the one who thought the "official" version of the song ends where it does. This is according to AGD of course, but yeah. So I think it's right that this version is the way it is. However, now that it's out, maybe on another collection they can issue the "longer, complete version" and therefore count that as an unreleased track. Wouldn't doubt that it's not part of BRI's thinking right now.


My only thought would be that, without actually hearing what took place musically on the multitrack after the fade, we should probably use caution in terming it a "complete version" (your correct quotes duly noted) -- mostly out of fear of that term somehow catching on.  That is, it may simply be "stuff" that was captured with the record button on. I reckon there's good reason why it fades where it does on *both* of the noted mixes. As also noted, some of which have already been expressed by those in the know.

That said, I love that tag so much that I too wouldn't mind hearing it go on for another 20-30 seconds or so, and/or perhaps as a looonnnng fadeout into the ether, (of course, assuming it was musically usable/good). : )

I reckon we could refer to them as "The Shorter Complete Version" and "The Longer Complete Version". :D
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« Reply #306 on: August 26, 2013, 03:20:32 PM »

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

And exactly how can 'your' version be a demo when the first three and a half minutes are identical to the released version ?  Plainly your inhouse CDR used a rough mix for TWOTS with some faders down on the tag and what's on MiC has been remixed and edited.
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« Reply #307 on: August 26, 2013, 03:23:58 PM »

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented?

There's nothing on the released version that wasn't on the original 1971 multitrack.
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« Reply #308 on: August 26, 2013, 03:35:15 PM »

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented?

There's nothing on the released version that wasn't on the original 1971 multitrack.


Cool! Thanks for confirmation, Andrew!

Such a majestic track. Worth every damned second of the wait.


Though, I have to add, I'm also feeling a bit melancholy for old friends, no longer with us, who didn't get a chance to hear this one. So grateful that I did.
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« Reply #309 on: August 26, 2013, 03:54:49 PM »

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.
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« Reply #310 on: August 26, 2013, 04:30:27 PM »

Nothing is exactly clear cut in the BB's history of picking tracks for their post '67 LP's, but I think its been stated here many times, and is fairly well accepted among people with what info is available that Dennis' tracks specifically recorded and submitted for Surf's Up were WIBNTLA and 4th of July. They had not been mixed and mastered, and they each had a little bit of polishing to be done, as with his Holland tracks Dennis probably would have left the clean-up to Carl, or would have done it in collaboration with Carl. These decisions on sequencing probably occurred while this work was being planned. I highly doubt Lady was considered, as it had already seen release as a European Dennis solo side.

Regarding DW's suggested sequence, from what I've been told he wanted WIBNTLA to follow Till I Die and to close the LP. I've also heard he suggested that Surf's Up be the album opener. I think its a good bet Feet or SDT would have been the ones to be left out if Carl and Dennis had reached a consensus. But again this is all very speculative, the route the BB's took to finalizing track inclusion, sequence and getting over the label approval hurdle is always one of those "depends on who you're talking to" kind of things, because a lot of people put in their two-cents, and the pattern of things being in constant flux was definitely the case once Brian wasn't taking responsibility for such choices anymore.

Thanks for the response, that's very helpful! I think Lady was listed as a song left off at the last minute in an older incarnation of the wikipedia article for Surf's Up, and that that is the source of the persistent rumor that it was almost included.
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« Reply #311 on: August 26, 2013, 10:40:20 PM »

Man, this song gets better and better with each listen.

Still contend that the last 90 seconds are the best part.

And I really hate the tag - too bad it doesn't fade before the silly lounge piano chord. What a waste of CD space it would have been had they let that noodling go on even longer! Grin

So there's something for everyone! Smiley
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« Reply #312 on: August 26, 2013, 10:46:42 PM »

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.

That would be the board where the founder claimed Capitol were prepared to pull the entire Smile Sessions box because FANS ACTUALLY ASKED THEM FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BUYING ITGrin
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« Reply #313 on: August 26, 2013, 11:26:28 PM »

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.

That would be the board where the founder claimed Capitol were prepared to pull the entire Smile Sessions box because FANS ACTUALLY ASKED THEM FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BUYING ITGrin

It's also the board where you could start a thread about an obscure Peruvian nose flute band and it would somehow become a thread about The Beatles.
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« Reply #314 on: August 27, 2013, 11:23:51 AM »

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-made-in-california/

Not noteworthy,  along with all the other unreleased stuff.   Huh
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« Reply #315 on: August 27, 2013, 01:32:57 PM »

Not noteworthy,  along with all the other unreleased stuff.   Huh

I'd expect nothing less from a site called ULTIMATECLASSICROCK
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« Reply #316 on: August 27, 2013, 02:29:34 PM »

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.

That would be the board where the founder claimed Capitol were prepared to pull the entire Smile Sessions box because FANS ACTUALLY ASKED THEM FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BUYING ITGrin

It's also the board where you could start a thread about an obscure Peruvian nose flute band and it would somehow become a thread about The Beatles.

I got banned for something stupid like introducing myself. Hoffman actually took the time to email me personally and chastise me. Still makes me chuckle.
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« Reply #317 on: August 27, 2013, 02:41:18 PM »



Is there a problem here, Mr. Newcombe?


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« Reply #318 on: August 27, 2013, 02:48:52 PM »

For introducing yourself???

I hope you cherish that email from the big guy!
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« Reply #319 on: August 27, 2013, 03:01:48 PM »

I can hear 'Cuddle Up' in there obviously and a riff from Steamboat there too.

Great track!  Time to re-order Surf's Up using some ideas from the other thread Smiley
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« Reply #320 on: August 27, 2013, 03:08:53 PM »

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.

That would be the board where the founder claimed Capitol were prepared to pull the entire Smile Sessions box because FANS ACTUALLY ASKED THEM FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BUYING ITGrin

It's also the board where you could start a thread about an obscure Peruvian nose flute band and it would somehow become a thread about The Beatles.

In other words, exactly like this board, eh?
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« Reply #321 on: August 27, 2013, 03:11:17 PM »

I love the song, although it does have a lot of Cuddle Up in it in places.

Dennis was singing so well from 69-71. Be With Me, Slip on Through, Forever, Sound of Free, Lady, WIBNTLA all have great vocals. Damn what he could have done if he could have controlled his addictions.

If I were Carl I would have begged Dennis to compromise.

I said this before, but when we hear about how Dennis and Carl wanted the group to be more contemporary instead of oldies-oriented in the mid-'70s, it drives me crazy to think of the opportunity lost here. I think the one chance the Beach Boys had to really make a big comeback was the Surf's Up album.

Sunflower was terrific, but the group was still thought of as "surfing Doris Days." By the time Surf's Up came out, Jack Rieley had rebuilt their "cred" and the addition of Surf's Up as a track generated a lot of interest. Surf's Up with 4th of July and WIBNTLA on it may not have been a grand slam, but it would have a been a three-run double. Instead, it was more than a bunt, it was a solid RBI single, but it could have been the true smash they needed with two more killer tracks.

I just wish Dennis and Carl had flipped a coin and let the winner determine sequencing.
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« Reply #322 on: August 27, 2013, 03:39:18 PM »

I was thinking.... We could very well be debating here how Sunflower would have sold gazilliosn if it had included Forever, Slip on Through, We Got Time and Got to Know the Woman.... If Dennis had withdeawn his tracks in THAT album.  Wink

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« Reply #323 on: August 27, 2013, 07:17:16 PM »

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented?

There's nothing on the released version that wasn't on the original 1971 multitrack.

Going in the other direction, is there anything on the multitrack that isn't on the released version?
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« Reply #324 on: August 27, 2013, 07:41:07 PM »

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented?

There's nothing on the released version that wasn't on the original 1971 multitrack.

Going in the other direction, is there anything on the multitrack that isn't on the released version?

Interesting question.  I would say that that's a possibility, however, I doubt there's much of significance.  I've heard a few alternate mixes and though it was 6 years ago, I can't remember anything unusual.  So I would say it's pretty much all there.  But tragically, I never got to sit in Mark's studio and preview the multis...
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