WIBNTLA Reviews

[Wirestone]

I think where the Beach Boys really lost their way, beginning, in my opinion, when Sunflower flopped, and continuing for the rest of their career, is that their string of failures get to them to the extent that they forgot an absolute cardinal rule - make the best album you can, and let the public follow. The whole semi-cynical idea of trying to create the illusion of Brian involvement to build publicity, plus all the petty internal power struggles, got in the way of putting out the best album they could. And once you stop working at your best, stop focusing first and foremost on the music, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, because people can tell when you're not at your best; they smell blood. In my opinion, it's often easier for a lesser band to do well working at their very best than for a great band that's letting crap get in the way of the music, even if the great band's mediocre music is better than the lesser bands best work. People can just feel it. The fact that Carl or Brian or Al or Mike or Bruce didn't stand up and say: this song has to come out because it's frickin fantastic, because we want the best album we can make, is so sad. So sad, but not remotely surprising. 

God, this is so very, very, very true. And you see it infect the group's albums up to the one put out last year. Not because it didn't have great things on it, because it very much did, but because the guys decided it had to have certain "types" of songs on it. And thus, you don't have a full-album suite about the arc of a man's life, which might have been Brian's best single-album statement since Pet Sounds. Instead you have some of it. And Spring Vacation. And then they need it out before the tour, so no time to polish or rethink.

And in the 90s, they punt on putting out an amazing Brian-led reunion record because they -- well, no one can quite say. But they preferred to do Stars and Stripes, because it was easy, and they didn't have to work around Brian's issues or collaborators. And of course there are albums where they did try like the dickens -- BB85 and LA and Holland come to mind -- but those instances are outweighed by all of the shoddy decisions.

[Alan Smith]

I think Dennis never returned to the song because he always wanted to be moving forward creatively and artistically and as such considered it a finished work from the past and didn't want to dig it up for inclusion on POB. River Song differs in this respect as it was a song he'd continually been working and building on for years.

Thanks for the reply, DB - a great perspective - my initial thoughts were along this line, I was curious if there was a single event that may have caused the canning.  For a guy like Dennis, the distance travelled between 71 and 77 was vast to say the least, so it's sort of more suprising he didn't shelve River Song along the way.

WIBNTLA was clearly about Barbara. By the time POB was made they were over. That's a good a guess as any as to why he didn't want to revisit it.

My thanks for your thoughts, MB - in my haste, I clearly did not consider how something so simple, real and human would have an effect on Dennis's attitude to the song.  We know how much emotion and passion Dennis put into his words and music, and it's easy to see why you wouldn't want to go back there.

Thanks again for the posts - A

[Sheriff John Stone]

Other than the group keeping Dennis' songs off of the albums, I basically agree with what everybody has been saying. And, not only because of the surfacing of "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", but all of these other previously unreleased treasures, something is becoming all the more obvious.

It's been discussed in other threads, though not as thoroughly as it should, but, The Beach Boys, more than any other group I can think of, desperately needed a manager when they signed with Reprise in 1969. And I don't mean a figurehead who simply oversaw the bookings, PR, and finances. They needed a mentor, a strong personality, a knowledgeable person - musically - who could see the big picture and the small details, somebody who could see through all the craziness and cut through the bullsh--. Now, before you call naive, yes, I understand who we were dealing with here. You had a group of money hungry, irresponsible, addicts who could be very stubborn. But, they did employ or allow certain people "into the circle" throughout their career. They just never found the right one. And, as was alluded to, it is still going on today.

Yes, the stories and circumstances are extremely complicated, but just listen to the stuff that DIDN'T come out. As much as you love hearing this music, another part pisses you off!

[Alan Smith]

Any insights as to why did Dennis made this decision...

If you have a basic understanding of the type of people Dennis and Brian are you wouldn't need to labor over this question, and its not just you...many people are asking this upon hearing the song. But think about the history. The Wilsons like to revisit motifs and  lyric snippets and recycle them into newer works, but they tend to be moving forward all the time, they do what they do and move to the next thing. In fact Dennis and Brian are usually done with a song before its done, this is why we get sloppy mixes and messy editing decisions because they throw it together or leave that aspect to others when they lose interest. Its in the doing that they are focused and once whatever that feel or inspiration has been satisfied, that's it, no more thought towards it, they can't get away fast enough. Dennis' whole reason for pulling his tracks off Surfs Up is a simple one, he wanted them heard in a certain context, if that wasn't going to be the case then he he didn't want them on there. He was over it in like two days, never held it against anybody...it was a cold calculated thing. He and Carl disagreed about the sequence of the LP, Carl won out, Dennis said OK but you don't get my tracks. Next. The thing that most grates on me is no one else in the band insisted his tracks stay, according to Reiley, and some others around the activity, they were jealous or envious of Dennis' talent, and were happy to see Dennis' work not on the LP for completely selfish reasons. So yes Dennis made an impulsive choice...gee that's out of character, he was such a careful guy. ...No one else fought to keep his stuff on there (according to observers). And yes, the fact that he revisited Only With You is the real anomaly, same with All Alone...but in fact later in life I think Dennis's prolific streak had run its course and he was more open to mining the leftovers because he was running out of gas. But in '71 he was on fire and he just kept creating new stuff, and for the next five years it was piling up, the solo LP ahead was the only real release, he could have easily done three but for that to happen the first one needed to be '71/72. Didn't happen, he finished one brilliant LP, but before he nailed down the next one he derailed, and burned out.

Jon, thanks for taking the time to respond and provide some cool details.

While I knew Dennis would get fidgety/bored with sessions for other people's material.  (Despite what I've read or watched) I didn't realise/click to the idea he would hit a wall and want to move on when laying down his material from this period, so thanks for the reminder.

It's frustrating to hear that no-one had Dennis's back when it came to track choice - and equally frustrating to hear the "Dennis Wilson - boy, we didn't realise what a talent he was" comments that get dragged out by the survivors from time to time - but whatever.  Finally, thanks to you and AGD for keeping us interested in this song, and Dennis's cannon - it's great to hear this beautifully presented version at last - cheers - A

[donald]

Other than the group keeping Dennis' songs off of the albums, I basically agree with what everybody has been saying. And, not only because of the surfacing of "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", but all of these other previously unreleased treasures, something is becoming all the more obvious.

It's been discussed in other threads, though not as thoroughly as it should, but, The Beach Boys, more than any other group I can think of, desperately needed a manager when they signed with Reprise in 1969. And I don't mean a figurehead who simply oversaw the bookings, PR, and finances. They needed a mentor, a strong personality, a knowledgeable person - musically - who could see the big picture and the small details, somebody who could see through all the craziness and cut through the bullsh--. Now, before you call naive, yes, I understand who we were dealing with here. You had a group of money hungry, irresponsible, addicts who could be very stubborn. But, they did employ or allow certain people "into the circle" throughout their career. They just never found the right one. And, as was alluded to, it is still going on today.

Well said.   Here of late, the pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together, a clear picture is coming into focus.    They needed a Georgr Martin or equivalent to pull the pieces together into the whole greater than the parts.

Yes, the stories and circumstances are extremely complicated, but just listen to the stuff that DIDN'T come out. As much as you love hearing this music, another part pisses you off!

[37!ws]

Something I noticed...

Cuddle Up:

I know a man who's so in love....

WIBNTLA:

Wouldn't it be nice to live again...

[Dancing Bear]

Just a suggestion... I think it's possible that between Barbara, WIBNTLA and Cuddle Up Dennis had certain musical intentions om common... And After Cuddle Up was finalized and released he turned the page.

[Dave Modny]

Life-affirming.



And life is good.

[Shady]

This song is good that I don't want to believe Mike was against putting it on the WOTS compilation.

He can't be that sick in the head.

[Kurosawa]

The Boys have had their share of dumb decisions but not releasing this song back in the day really takes the cake

That particular decision was taken, and effected by one Wilson, Dennis Carl.  

Any insights as to why did Dennis made this decision?  Even with the hindsight of 40 years of historical and musical perspective, I see no reason why this didn't get an earlier airing.

Politics aside, what would make Dennis shelve this but then support the inclusion of "...,Pete" or "Hold on Dear Brother", "Susie Cin" or even "Make it Good"?

Why would Dennis favour a remake of "Only With You*" for his solo album instead of this smokin' beast?

To me, it indicates Dennis made a rather significant decision to let it go - are there any clues as to what got in his craw?

*Not that there's anything wrong with that. I love the POB Only with You.

If you have a basic understanding of the type of people Dennis and Brian are you wouldn't need to labor over this question, and its not just you...many people are asking this upon hearing the song. But think about the history. The Wilsons like to revisit motifs and  lyric snippets and recycle them into newer works, but they tend to be moving forward all the time, they do what they do and move to the next thing. In fact Dennis and Brian are usually done with a song before its done, this is why we get sloppy mixes and messy editing decisions because they throw it together or leave that aspect to others when they lose interest. Its in the doing that they are focused and once whatever that feel or inspiration has been satisfied, that's it, no more thought towards it, they can't get away fast enough. Dennis' whole reason for pulling his tracks off Surfs Up is a simple one, he wanted them heard in a certain context, if that wasn't going to be the case then he he didn't want them on there. He was over it in like two days, never held it against anybody...it was a cold calculated thing. He and Carl disagreed about the sequence of the LP, Carl won out, Dennis said OK but you don't get my tracks. Next. The thing that most grates on me is no one else in the band insisted his tracks stay, according to Reiley, and some others around the activity, they were jealous or envious of Dennis' talent, and were happy to see Dennis' work not on the LP for completely selfish reasons. So yes Dennis made an impulsive choice...gee that's out of character, he was such a careful guy. ...No one else fought to keep his stuff on there (according to observers). And yes, the fact that he revisited Only With You is the real anomaly, same with All Alone...but in fact later in life I think Dennis's prolific streak had run its course and he was more open to mining the leftovers because he was running out of gas. But in '71 he was on fire and he just kept creating new stuff, and for the next five years it was piling up, the solo LP ahead was the only real release, he could have easily done three but for that to happen the first one needed to be '71/72. Didn't happen, he finished one brilliant LP, but before he nailed down the next one he derailed, and burned out.

Very enlightening post. It seems to me that the biggest problems the band had, back to SMiLE, was an inability to finish things and later on, too much commercial calculation and too little artistic statement.

[Nicko1234]

This song is good that I don't want to believe Mike was against putting it on the WOTS compilation.

He can't be that sick in the head.

That was a best of volume 2 though and didn't have any unreleased songs on it. I'm not saying this was Mike's thinking at all but albums shouldn't be released with only 1 unreleased song on them. It's right that it was saved for this type of compilation.

[Micha]

So if other band members were jealous (and with Mike of course that's entirely believable)

Oh, come on! Mike praised Dennis' songwriting talents on stage. I tried to find my post where I pointed out a YouTube video where he does so, but I couldn't find my post in an adequate time frame, I wrote too many. No reason to say Mike's envy is believable, the others' isn't.

[Nicko1234]

Oh, come on! Mike praised Dennis' songwriting talents on stage. I tried to find my post where I pointed out a YouTube video where he does so, but I couldn't find my post in an adequate time frame, I wrote too many. No reason to say Mike's envy is believable, the others' isn't.

You are right. I shouldn't have singled him out.

Especially it seems from reports at the time that all of the band members had petty jealousies against each other. Even being jealous of Bruce when he received acclaim for performing The Nearest Faraway Place at concerts for example.

[Micha]

Oh, come on! Mike praised Dennis' songwriting talents on stage. I tried to find my post where I pointed out a YouTube video where he does so, but I couldn't find my post in an adequate time frame, I wrote too many. No reason to say Mike's envy is believable, the others' isn't.

You are right. I shouldn't have singled him out.

Especially it seems from reports at the time that all of the band members had petty jealousies against each other. Even being jealous of Bruce when he received acclaim for performing The Nearest Faraway Place at concerts for example.

I haven't seen those reports, but it is absolutely plausible. Jealousy is part of the human nature, so all of the six are susceptible to jealousy, including Mike, but not necessarily more than the others. Maybe, but we can't take it for granted.

[beachboys_fr]

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

[Dave Modny]

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

[Dancing Bear]

I once did the math and am almost sure that on the 68-73 studio era dennis was the second member of the band best represented with more songwriting credits after brian.

[bsten]

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

"My version"?? To my knowledge it has never ever been booted...(?) What boot is the "demo" on??

[pixletwin]

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

"My version"?? To my knowledge it has never ever been booted...(?) What boot is the "demo" on??

beachboys_fr bought a demo CD off of ebay which was an early version of The Warmth of the Sun CD that included WIBNTLA - apparently it's a mix that doesn't include the flute.

[SonicVolcano]

That was...

...mind-blowing.

The best 4 minutes and 41 seconds ever.

Dennis, you magnificent bastard

[Wrightfan]

Man, this song gets better and better with each listen.

Still contend that the last 90 seconds are the best part.

[runnersdialzero]

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

"My version"?? To my knowledge it has never ever been booted...(?) What boot is the "demo" on??

Sorry to sound like an ass, but given his description, it's not a demo, but an alternate mix.

Interesting, though. I'm sure it was being mixed back then with "It's gonna be on a hits package" in mind, thus why it's shorter etc. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I'd have really preferred the whole thing have been released. If Dennis meant for the song to fade like this right where it does, then fair enough, but shoot - like I said in the other thread, you really start to "feel" the end section right as it's fading out.

Hopefully some day. ;(

[Dave Modny]

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

"My version"?? To my knowledge it has never ever been booted...(?) What boot is the "demo" on??

Sorry to sound like an ass, but given his description, it's not a demo, but an alternate mix.

Interesting, though. I'm sure it was being mixed back then with "It's gonna be on a hits package" in mind, thus why it's shorter etc. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I'd have really preferred the whole thing have been released. If Dennis meant for the song to fade like this right where it does, then fair enough, but shoot - like I said in the other thread, you really start to "feel" the end section right as it's fading out.

Hopefully some day. ;(

This would be my guess as well (i.e. an alternate mix). Though, I do find it odd that CL's flute would be mixed out of the "other" version when it's always been something that's been noted as one of the highlights of the song from those who had heard it in its entirety (e.g. at a Beach Boys fan convention-listening session).

Also, Eric's version seems to be roughly the same length as the new release -- his is 4:33 -- so I'd reckon that it's faded at about the same place as this one is. FWIW, and so people don't have to hunt through the old posts....here's his original description of his TWOTS version:


"Total time is 04:33. There is a short intro of 00:06 with piano as the main instrument. Then Dennis sings alone. At 00:33 background vocals begin. I can't confirm if it is Brian and Carl or not. At 00:39, drums begin. The same structure is repeated once. After 02:35, there are mainly harmonies and from 03:44 to the end, Dennis repeats the same sentence. He doesn't really sing; he almost speaks. The averall sound is not perfect but quite good."


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3562.msg361475.html#msg361475

[Dave Modny]

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented? That is, he describes drums coming in where they don't exactly come in here. Also, kind of interesting how the drum kit/track is mixed wide across the entire stereo spectrum on this new release.

Can you make any other observations, Eric? Does what's common between the two mixes/versions sound exactly the same to your ears?

TIA!

[DonnyL]

This song is good that I don't want to believe Mike was against putting it on the WOTS compilation.

He can't be that sick in the head.

With all of the evidence presented above, it's now apparent that Mike felt the missing flute performance by his old friend and fellow TMer Charlie Lloyd was a deal-breaker and refused to approve it's release on Warmth of the Sun.

So we can all thank Mike Love for insisting on the flute being mixed back into the song -- thus allowing Dennis' original vision to be fully realized with Made in California. This was obviously the cause of the long delay.