Al Jardine says there's a BAD conflict w/Mike. Aka: The welcome back AGD thread

[Mike's Beard]

Has Al forgotten what happened the last time he tried to use the words "Beach Boy" in his billing? Even if he has Brian on his side this time, fighting for use of the name, they'd still have to convince the estate of Carl Wilson to vote for them.

If you were Carl's relatives would you vote for the guy who's willing to play a gig anytime, anywhere at the drop of a hat or the guy who would happily never perform live again for the rest of his life if he had his way?

[Heywood]

Al is a fool. I like him as a musician, but as a person, he's kind of a jerk

You know him pretty well, do you?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Has Al forgotten what happened the last time he tried to use the words "Beach Boy" in his billing? Even if he has Brian on his side this time, fighting for use of the name, they'd still have to convince the estate of Carl Wilson to vote for them.

If you were Carl's relatives would you vote for the guy who's willing to play a gig anywhere at the drop of a hat or the guy who would happily never perform live again for the rest of his life if he had his way?

This should effectively end this thread!

[Heywood]

Brian doesn't invite me to dinner or pay me, so I can't get that worked about about "poor Brian" being bullied by "mean ol' Mike Love" while he drives to LA steak restaurants in his Mercedes Benz in his Gucci shoes. And no, I don't care about hearing a mediocre song like "Little Bird" sung by a small bald troll.

Congratulations.
Even by the standards of crap you usually write, this one's a winner!

[runnersdialzero]

This whole situation just keeps getting more and more pathetic. I feel slightly ashamed to call myself a fan amid all this, it's like high school soap opera sh*t. I really hope they can resolve the situation, but I doubt it'll happen.

[leggo of my ego]

So, yes. Let's piece this all together, shall we?

Joe Thomas is working with Brian's people to wrest control of BRI and certain rights to the name. This is the reason Mike high-tailed it out of the C50 tour when he did. He wanted to reestablish control over his operation and his rights to the name. It had nothing to do with a set number of dates. It had to do with who controlled the name and the future of the touring outfit.

If Brian, Al and Dave kept touring with Mike, Joe and Brian would reap huge rewards. With Mike on his own, Brian still gets a percentage, but he doesn't control the band, and JT is out of the picture entirely. Or at least that's what Mike hoped would happen. Instead, Joe and Brian's folk are mounting a carefully choreographed challenge to the current BRI structure. Intriguing stuff.

I never understood the folks who claimed that Brian and Al would never be interested in ending the "gravy train" from Mike's touring. How many years more can Mike do it? No more than 10 or so, tops. How much good would that extra money do for Brian or Al? Not much, if they've invested carefully.

No, at this stage the battle is about the end game. Think about it. There will continue to be a touring group called the Beach Boys after the principals exit. But would you rather that band be Cowsill, Totten, Kirsch and Christian, or Sahanaja, Foskett, Gregory, Mertens, Bennett, et. al? And who would control those bands? Whose family would the revenue go to? Both Melinda and Jackie will likely outlive their spouses by decades, and both have kids. Al has several sons who would love to tour with Beach Boys music too.

If you ask me, that's what the battle is ultimately about. Who will have the rights to the name for the next generation. If you think it's bitter and nasty now, just wait. It's only beginning.

Excellent insight, Wirestone.

I too am stocking up on popcorn. 

[JohnMill]

Al is a fool. I like him as a musician, but as a person, he's kind of a jerk

You know him pretty well, do you?

No they're just good friends.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

So, yes. Let's piece this all together, shall we?

Joe Thomas is working with Brian's people to wrest control of BRI and certain rights to the name. This is the reason Mike high-tailed it out of the C50 tour when he did. He wanted to reestablish control over his operation and his rights to the name. It had nothing to do with a set number of dates. It had to do with who controlled the name and the future of the touring outfit.

If Brian, Al and Dave kept touring with Mike, Joe and Brian would reap huge rewards. With Mike on his own, Brian still gets a percentage, but he doesn't control the band, and JT is out of the picture entirely. Or at least that's what Mike hoped would happen. Instead, Joe and Brian's folk are mounting a carefully choreographed challenge to the current BRI structure. Intriguing stuff.

I never understood the folks who claimed that Brian and Al would never be interested in ending the "gravy train" from Mike's touring. How many years more can Mike do it? No more than 10 or so, tops. How much good would that extra money do for Brian or Al? Not much, if they've invested carefully.

No, at this stage the battle is about the end game. Think about it. There will continue to be a touring group called the Beach Boys after the principals exit. But would you rather that band be Cowsill, Totten, Kirsch and Christian, or Sahanaja, Foskett, Gregory, Mertens, Bennett, et. al? And who would control those bands? Whose family would the revenue go to? Both Melinda and Jackie will likely outlive their spouses by decades, and both have kids. Al has several sons who would love to tour with Beach Boys music too.

If you ask me, that's what the battle is ultimately about. Who will have the rights to the name for the next generation. If you think it's bitter and nasty now, just wait. It's only beginning.

Excellent insight, Wirestone.

I too am stocking up on popcorn. 

Popcorn and barf-bags ;P

[Gertie J.]

yeah too much popcorn will result in excessive vomiting.

[Shady]

......And that's your smiley smile health warning of the day

[bringahorseinhere?]

or too much sugar and too much cake, you end up with a belly ache

Rb

[Gertie J.]

where the hell were u when brian needed ya?

[Pretty Funky]

Its all a bit undignified for a bunch of seniors who should know better.

Lets just go all the way and have a idol type TV show with Simon Cowell. Mike and Bruce vs BAD.

[Jon Stebbins]

Out of interest, would David have any legal right at all to bill himself as an 'original Beach Boy'?

i think that was legally established long before most fans began referring to him that way. Going back to '67, and the Capitol lawsuit he was called an original Beach Boy in legal filings due to his signature on the group's first major recording contract, and his presence on their first LP. I realize the caveat remains that he was not on the first indy single release, but that holds more significance as an aesthetic difference than a legal one. When the group got their professional legal sh*t together with a real lawyer, a real record label and the initial filings within the court system he was one of them. Mike would have to contradict himself if he was to now say David was not an original Beach Boy as he has said that he is/was numerous times, as have Brian and Al.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Out of interest, would David have any legal right at all to bill himself as an 'original Beach Boy'?

i think that was legally established long before most fans began referring to him that way. Going back to '67, and the Capitol lawsuit he was called an original Beach Boy in legal filings due to his signature on the group's first major recording contract, and his presence on their first LP. I realize the caveat remains that he was not on the first indy single release, but that holds more significance as an aesthetic difference than a legal one. When the group got their professional legal sh*t together with a real lawyer, a real record label and the initial filings within the court system he was one of them. Mike would have to contradict himself if he was to now say David was not an original Beach Boy as he has said that he is/was numerous times, as have Brian and Al.

It's a silly topic..... Like, do people accuse Ringo of not being an original Beatle or Bon Scott not an original member of AC/DC?

[Pretty Funky]

Any possibility any new owners opt not to use 'The Beach Boys' should the rights to the name change hands? Al said a few things last year about the bands legacy and hardly seems to be needing the soup kitchen after 14 years of not touring. Brian doesn't need the money.

Would get my vote. Retire the name or use it if all the principles agree. Win-win!

[Kurosawa]

Their music is often beautiful and harmonious, but everything about these guys from the legal/personal side is totally brutal. If they are expressing this level of animosity with each other in public, imagine how they must feel in private.

I think a lot more of it than it seems is between Mike and Al. They seemed really close for a long time, then they had the fallout. I doubt it pisses Brian off to see the Beach Boys touring and him not a part of it (at least up until the C50), but I bet Al has been angry about it ever since Carl died and the band broke up. I imagine he must have always thought he was going to be in the band.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Any possibility any new owners opt not to use 'The Beach Boys' should the rights to the name change hands? Al said a few things last year about the bands legacy and hardly seems to be needing the soup kitchen after 14 years of not touring. Brian doesn't need the money.

Would get my vote. Retire the name or use it if all the principles agree. Win-win!

I would agree but Carl's estate probably feeds quite a few mouths.  Doubt they would vote against Mike and his touring cash machine.

[Cyncie]

Any possibility any new owners opt not to use 'The Beach Boys' should the rights to the name change hands? Al said a few things last year about the bands legacy and hardly seems to be needing the soup kitchen after 14 years of not touring. Brian doesn't need the money.

Would get my vote. Retire the name or use it if all the principles agree. Win-win!

Yep. That would be my recommendation... not that it matters. None of these guys are hard up for cash. Retire "The Beach Boys" name so that it can only be used if everyone is on board. Anyone who wants to continue to tour with whatever relatives and friends they have, can do so. But, no one gets to be The Beach Boys unless they actually ARE The Beach Boys.

[ontor pertawst]

I would agree but Carl's estate probably feeds quite a few mouths.  Doubt they would vote against Mike and his touring cash machine.

You'll know they mean business when Carl's kids are on the bill with Brian/Beck/Al/David/Original/Family/And/Friends singing Friends, Till I Die, and All This is That.

That's when you cut to Doctor Claw, er... Doctor Love's forehead vein pulsating.



Stamos, release the hounds!

[Nicko1234]

[/size]

Out of interest, would David have any legal right at all to bill himself as an 'original Beach Boy'?

i think that was legally established long before most fans began referring to him that way. Going back to '67, and the Capitol lawsuit he was called an original Beach Boy in legal filings due to his signature on the group's first major recording contract, and his presence on their first LP. I realize the caveat remains that he was not on the first indy single release, but that holds more significance as an aesthetic difference than a legal one. When the group got their professional legal sh*t together with a real lawyer, a real record label and the initial filings within the court system he was one of them. Mike would have to contradict himself if he was to now say David was not an original Beach Boy as he has said that he is/was numerous times, as have Brian and Al.

Sorry. That's not really what I was referring to. What I meant (but didn't explain properly) was could David bill himself in the press as:

Original member of
The Beach Boys
David Marks

Could he sell tickets like that?

[ontor pertawst]

Right, Brian's wife is the only selfish one here. The other spouses don't care about money and consider The Beach Boys a charitable operation to bring Mike Love to children in need.

  that's very good sarcasm there, Ontor.

Seems to me that Brian was gracious enough to lend his vote for Michael but in turn Mr. Love is unyielding to compromise.

There should be some way to work it out so both bands could use "Beach Boys" in their tours. Peter Noone and Barry Whitwam worked
out a similar arrangement with "Herman's Hermits".

Or like Faust, be ultra confusing and both go out as The Beach Boys. Roll the die, you'll never know who you get! May or may not contain up to two actual if not original Beach Boys! Foskett sold separately.

Will it be car songs and Kokomo or melancholy chamber pop with a variably charismatic, generally seated frontman that's a cross between a baby and Beethoven? Test yer luck!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

[/size]

Out of interest, would David have any legal right at all to bill himself as an 'original Beach Boy'?

i think that was legally established long before most fans began referring to him that way. Going back to '67, and the Capitol lawsuit he was called an original Beach Boy in legal filings due to his signature on the group's first major recording contract, and his presence on their first LP. I realize the caveat remains that he was not on the first indy single release, but that holds more significance as an aesthetic difference than a legal one. When the group got their professional legal sh*t together with a real lawyer, a real record label and the initial filings within the court system he was one of them. Mike would have to contradict himself if he was to now say David was not an original Beach Boy as he has said that he is/was numerous times, as have Brian and Al.

Sorry. That's not really what I was referring to. What I meant (but didn't explain properly) was could David bill himself in the press as:

Original member of
The Beach Boys
David Marks

Could he sell tickets like that?

Hardly worth answering when he's out there at this moment with Brian and Al selling tickets.... If Brian and Al consider him an original Beach Boys, isn't that enough?

[Cyncie]

Any possibility any new owners opt not to use 'The Beach Boys' should the rights to the name change hands? Al said a few things last year about the bands legacy and hardly seems to be needing the soup kitchen after 14 years of not touring. Brian doesn't need the money.

Would get my vote. Retire the name or use it if all the principles agree. Win-win!

I would agree but Carl's estate probably feeds quite a few mouths.  Doubt they would vote against Mike and his touring cash machine.

I know. I hate the thought of destitute millionaire families.

[Nicko1234]

No, at this stage the battle is about the end game. Think about it. There will continue to be a touring group called the Beach Boys after the principals exit. But would you rather that band be Cowsill, Totten, Kirsch and Christian, or Sahanaja, Foskett, Gregory, Mertens, Bennett, et. al? And who would control those bands? Whose family would the revenue go to? Both Melinda and Jackie will likely outlive their spouses by decades, and both have kids. Al has several sons who would love to tour with Beach Boys music too.

If you ask me, that's what the battle is ultimately about. Who will have the rights to the name for the next generation. If you think it's bitter and nasty now, just wait. It's only beginning.

I don't think it has anything to do with that at the moment. They just want to sell tickets for their shows.

In the future though I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a touring band with no Beach Boys in it at all. If there is then from a business sense it would make a lot more sense for it to be Mike's band (that's if it contains any of the current touring band members at all). They could go out as a 5-piece and have plenty of experience of playing that type of venue and the hits sets.