So who's been to BAD and M&B this summer?

[drbeachboy]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable.

But, on that night, Stamos was a part of the band. If he was asked to JOIN the band onstage for that particular date, and he JOINED THE BAND onstage, then he was part of the band. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, is it possible to use some common sense in judging Stamos' influence in bringing fans into the fold? Of course it's not measurable if you're talking about an exact figure. Do you think he brought in dozens of fans to The Beach Boys? I do. Do you think he brought hundreds of fans to The Beach Boys over the years? I do. Do you think he brought over a thousand or thousands of fans to The Beach Boys with his numerous TV shows, his concert appearances, and his vocal/performance of "Forever"? I do. How many fans do you think he "turned off" over the years? Using common sense I would say dozens. I don't think it's hundreds. In my opinion, I'd say those are pretty good numbers in his favor.

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

As far as his impact on the band's popularity, the most measurable aspect to look at is album sales. It is a fact that the Beach Boys album released at the peak of his popularity and the peak of his association with the band, and the only group project to prominently feature him in any way, was the biggest bomb of their career. I could try to extrapolate from this that he actually injured the band, but even setting that aside, he didn't help the band beyond some general short term visibility that I don't believe ultimately helped in any career-altering way. He did injure the band's already dismal position as any sort of relevant band in terms of contemporary critical success.

As to your last sentence, I think The Beach Boys did that to themselves without any outside help until TWGMTR. So, did Stamos keep this from going to #1 instead #3? I get that you don't like him and don't like him at concerts, but really?

[ontor pertawst]

I'm enjoying the convoluted pro-Stamos arguments, but isn't anybody going to praise his um, singing and playing? Even one person?

If not, maybe he doesn't belong on that stage.

[filledeplage]

I'm enjoying the convoluted pro-Stamos arguments, but isn't anybody going to praise his um, singing and playing? Even one person?

If not, maybe he doesn't belong on that stage.

He is decent! I love when he is with the Touring Band because Cowsill gets out front for a steamy, hot 3 minutes of Rhonda!  He's fine for Forever.  OK singer.  And he is spirited.  And, stays on key. 

Sometimes people don't have the greatest voices but, the "delivery" makes for a different "sound." Many rockers didn't have great voices, gritty even, like Jagger or Dylan, who is not Sinatra, but, yet the fire of spirit transcends. 

Stamos is OK.  And beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  These younger fans, like him. They'd like anything he sang.  I think I'd like anything the Boys sing, because of the "delivery" of the song.  Each to his/her own! 

[ontor pertawst]

Jagger. Dylan. Stamos.

The fire of spirit transcends!

Glad you helped clear that up.

[drbeachboy]

I'm enjoying the convoluted pro-Stamos arguments, but isn't anybody going to praise his um, singing and playing? Even one person?

If not, maybe he doesn't belong on that stage.

It's not a question of praise or pro-Stamos, as you put it, but rather in the whole scheme of things he is a very inconsequential part of The Boys' history and what they will be remembered for.

[HeyJude]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable.

But, on that night, Stamos was a part of the band. If he was asked to JOIN the band onstage for that particular date, and he JOINED THE BAND onstage, then he was part of the band. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, is it possible to use some common sense in judging Stamos' influence in bringing fans into the fold? Of course it's not measurable if you're talking about an exact figure. Do you think he brought in dozens of fans to The Beach Boys? I do. Do you think he brought hundreds of fans to The Beach Boys over the years? I do. Do you think he brought over a thousand or thousands of fans to The Beach Boys with his numerous TV shows, his concert appearances, and his vocal/performance of "Forever"? I do. How many fans do you think he "turned off" over the years? Using common sense I would say dozens. I don't think it's hundreds. In my opinion, I'd say those are pretty good numbers in his favor.

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

As far as his impact on the band's popularity, the most measurable aspect to look at is album sales. It is a fact that the Beach Boys album released at the peak of his popularity and the peak of his association with the band, and the only group project to prominently feature him in any way, was the biggest bomb of their career. I could try to extrapolate from this that he actually injured the band, but even setting that aside, he didn't help the band beyond some general short term visibility that I don't believe ultimately helped in any career-altering way. He did injure the band's already dismal position as any sort of relevant band in terms of contemporary critical success.

As to your last sentence, I think The Beach Boys did that to themselves without any outside help until TWGMTR. So, did Stamos keep this from going to #1 instead #3? I get that you don't like him and don't like him at concerts, but really?

I don't think he played any role in any success or failure of TWGMTR. I think the associations that some people may make between the band and arguably cheesy things like "Full House" are partly if not largely due to the Stamos connection. It's another tired variation on the art vs. commerce debate, but Stamos and "Full House" drew fans perhaps, but not fans that would take the band as seriously as they should.

[drbeachboy]

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable.

But, on that night, Stamos was a part of the band. If he was asked to JOIN the band onstage for that particular date, and he JOINED THE BAND onstage, then he was part of the band. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, is it possible to use some common sense in judging Stamos' influence in bringing fans into the fold? Of course it's not measurable if you're talking about an exact figure. Do you think he brought in dozens of fans to The Beach Boys? I do. Do you think he brought hundreds of fans to The Beach Boys over the years? I do. Do you think he brought over a thousand or thousands of fans to The Beach Boys with his numerous TV shows, his concert appearances, and his vocal/performance of "Forever"? I do. How many fans do you think he "turned off" over the years? Using common sense I would say dozens. I don't think it's hundreds. In my opinion, I'd say those are pretty good numbers in his favor.

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

As far as his impact on the band's popularity, the most measurable aspect to look at is album sales. It is a fact that the Beach Boys album released at the peak of his popularity and the peak of his association with the band, and the only group project to prominently feature him in any way, was the biggest bomb of their career. I could try to extrapolate from this that he actually injured the band, but even setting that aside, he didn't help the band beyond some general short term visibility that I don't believe ultimately helped in any career-altering way. He did injure the band's already dismal position as any sort of relevant band in terms of contemporary critical success.

As to your last sentence, I think The Beach Boys did that to themselves without any outside help until TWGMTR. So, did Stamos keep this from going to #1 instead #3? I get that you don't like him and don't like him at concerts, but really?

I don't think he played any role in any success or failure of TWGMTR. I think the associations that some people may make between the band and arguably cheesy things like "Full House" are partly if not largely due to the Stamos connection. It's another tired variation on the art vs. commerce debate, but Stamos and "Full House" drew fans perhaps, but not fans that would take the band as seriously as they should.

No use crying over spilt milk, as they say. Full House will be on TV in reruns for a long, long time to come. The damage has been done, if you do indeed think that way. I can't change history, it's a done deal, with no going back. Me, I just sit back and live with it. No big deal at this point! Again, Stamos is insignificant in how The Beach Boys will ultimately be remembered.

[Cam Mott]

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

What makes you think it wasn't the stage manager's call?

[Cam Mott]

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

I'm thinking Stamos might be more of a BB band regular then anyone at C50 save Brian, Mike, Bruce, Al and Dave. And I'm not too sure about Dave [or Brian] quantity-wise.

[Sheriff John Stone]

It's another tired variation on the art vs. commerce debate, but Stamos and "Full House" drew fans perhaps, but not fans that would take the band as seriously as they should.

I respect your opinion(s) Hey Jude, but I don't know how you can say that. Yes, I think I know the fans you are referring to that maybe/probably migrated to The Beach Boys through Stamos initially. But, I don't think you can end it there, and ASSUME that those fans were non-serious fans - OR, and this is important OR - didn't become serious, knowledgeable, diehards like us. You have to start somewhere with fandom. How many serious diehards got hooked on the group through "Little Deuce Coupe" or "Getcha Back" or "Kokomo" - only to eventually love and appreciate "SMiLE, "Til I Die", and Pacific Ocean Blue.

I'll repeat, you have to start somewhere, and I think "Forever" - featured numerous times by Stamos - is a great starting point. It led fans to Sunflower, Dennis Wilson, and obviously Beach Boys' comps. And, how many of those "non-serious" Stamos-influenced fans got hooked - big-time, just like you and me? And it all started with John Stamos! I'm not name calling and calling you or anyone ignorant, but someone is ignorant if they don't see the positive influence that Stamos had.

[HeyJude]

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

I'm thinking Stamos might be more of a BB band regular then anyone at C50 save Brian, Mike, Bruce, Al and Dave. And I'm not too sure about Dave [or Brian] quantity-wise.

Of course he has likely appeared at more total gigs. But he has never been brought in to fill a needed musical role. He was more skin to the cheerleaders used in the 90's.

[HeyJude]

It's another tired variation on the art vs. commerce debate, but Stamos and "Full House" drew fans perhaps, but not fans that would take the band as seriously as they should.

I respect your opinion(s) Hey Jude, but I don't know how you can say that. Yes, I think I know the fans you are referring to that maybe/probably migrated to The Beach Boys through Stamos initially. But, I don't think you can end it there, and ASSUME that those fans were non-serious fans - OR, and this is important OR - didn't become serious, knowledgeable, diehards like us. You have to start somewhere with fandom. How many serious diehards got hooked on the group through "Little Deuce Coupe" or "Getcha Back" or "Kokomo" - only to eventually love and appreciate "SMiLE, "Til I Die", and Pacific Ocean Blue.

I'll repeat, you have to start somewhere, and I think "Forever" - featured numerous times by Stamos - is a great starting point. It led fans to Sunflower, Dennis Wilson, and obviously Beach Boys' comps. And, how many of those "non-serious" Stamos-influenced fans got hooked - big-time, just like you and me? And it all started with John Stamos! I'm not name calling and calling you or anyone ignorant, but someone is ignorant if they don't see the positive influence that Stamos had.

There are indeed all kinds of possibilities for how someone could discover and get into the Beach Boys. I just think his impact was being overstated considering the utter failure of "SIP." My guess is more people have become diehard fans through other means than "Full House."

[Nicko1234]

There are indeed all kinds of possibilities for how someone could discover and get into the Beach Boys. I just think his impact was being overstated considering the utter failure of "SIP." My guess is more people have become diehard fans through other means than "Full House."

Of course they have. But that doesn't mean that a fair number of fans didn't come through Stamos.

I would say that fans were much more likely to have started out buying a best of comp than SIP anyway...