Pictures from "Love and Mercy" biopic

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

There's a certain irony there.

Is that a dig at Carole Kaye? Seriously, was she not a nice person and a good musician?

Respectively, no, and yes. Outstanding musician, who deserves all the acclaim she gets - for the music she performed. Snag is, she's taken to claiming she was on a lot of hits - notably "Surfin' USA", a slew of Motown singles and "Light My Fire" - that she demonstrably didn't play on.

I don't think she should be berated for a shaky memory.  She's played bass on a ridiculous amount of recordings, it's easy to lose track of what recordings those may be.  I'm sure she's a nice person, just not a particularly reliable one for accurate information.

You just don't get it

What don't I get?  She was a session musician, that was her job.  She played on hundreds, maybe thousands of songs.  It wasn't her job to remember exactly which songs those were.  So she knows she played for the Beach Boys, she played on more than a handful of their songs, she might not remember the specifics though so if someone brings up a Beach Boys song, she might say, "yeah, I played on that."  It's just the way memory works sometimes.  I don't think it has to do with her as a person.

Nope, you just don't get it

I think it's just par for the course to have one's memory get tripped up after so many sessions/so many decades. I mean, is every Ford assembly line retiree supposed to remember each and every car they worked on? But no one ever asks them.

Doesn't Hal Blaine think he played on pretty much every Byrds record etc etc?

[Wirestone]

There's a difference between not remembering and claiming certain knowledge. There's also a difference between not remembering and publicly blasting people who are questioning your faulty memory.

[Cyncie]

I thought I'd annotate this conversation for my own clarification, and maybe RangeRover's.

Second from left is supposed to be Al, right?

Stephen makes a joke about Al's height.

No, I think it's one of Brian's little sons. Dylan or whatever his name.

Your response, which seems serious, but probably isn't.

You do know I love you, don't you?

Stephen expresses amusement.

That guy looks at least 6 inches taller than Al!

Letsgoawayforawhile joins in on the Al joke.

2Mr. Newcombe: If what you've said is some hip British slang meaning "I agree with you", then fine. But if it's vice versa="I strongly disagree with you" - well, I wasn't sure anyway when I said that it's one of Brian's children. Maybe it's not. But the point is it can't be Al, no way.

2Letsgoawayforawhile & the other Al mockers: can you, please, stop paying attention to Al's height, commenting on it etc.? Show some respect, he deserves it! After all, height & other appearance details have nothing to do with music at all. Though I'm sure you all know about that.

Ah. Maybe you were serious....

You weren't serious, surely

Or, what bgas said.

How's that? Look around, like every 3rd topic has posters teasing Al for his height & even calling him "elf" & such. Sorry, folks, I find it distasteful.

If you're referring to my 1st sentence, I honestly don't know the meaning of that slang in Mr. Newcombe's post. Knowing that English is a very tricky language, one can hardly say for sure what this or that phrase means. So I was just going by logic.

You're right. Al gets a hard time because he's short.

[Wirestone]

Fairly certain that the kid in the picture is Dylan. One of Brian's sons. Why would that be a joke? I don't get it.

[bgas]

Fairly certain that the kid in the picture is Dylan. One of Brian's sons. Why would that be a joke? I don't get it.

Shirley you jest!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

There's a difference between not remembering and claiming certain knowledge. There's also a difference between not remembering and publicly blasting people who are questioning your faulty memory.

That....... is a good point.

[Rocky Raccoon]

When did she publicly blast someone for questioning her?

[Wirestone]

When did she publicly blast someone for questioning her?

Carol has been online since the late 90s, and got progressively more outspoken as the years passed. Her claims also became more sweeping and specific. She started making claims (particularly about playing on Motown tracks) that are just demonstrably false. Go to her website and read some of the ramblings there. She has special contempt for people who were "not there," and those she claims are spreading lies.

It's really rather sad. She used to post on multiple boards and was clearly happy to hear from fans. But at a certain point, when questions started being raised, she literally could never admit that she might have been wrong (that the Motown songs she played on might have been for quickie covers records or demos, for example). She just doubled down and eventually retreated to her members-only forum.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Oh okay, I didn't know that, that's interesting.

[Wirestone]

Some excerpts from her website:

Kent Hartman obtained my interview under fraud pretenses. His phony "wrecking" book re-invents history, please don't buy it. My book will be out this year, Carol K.

Anitra's Twist was recorded by Carol Kaye on guitar and bass in the 1960s, and is copyrighted and owned by Carol. This recording was never owned by Hal Blaine who illegally uses it for his own purposes without her permission.

One such self-serving person, Alan Slutsky an east-coaster and wannabee guitar player, knew nothing of our involvement. BTW, nothing of his book royalties goes to the family of Jamerson, only to him. He said he wanted to help the Detroit musicians but because his ignorance of west coast operations created denouncements of our work to further his aims and book sales imo.

He also sent terrible libelous flyers around the world, with his own padded scenarios around his invented quotes, saying I said this or that, which is completely untrue, it was complete fiction. He began a campaign journey of demeaning me and whoever didn't agree with him - he is still doing this.

This evidently prejudiced writer even screamed at me on the phone and then sued the Detroit musicians after they fired him. Most, including a few at Motown, trusted him at first. He's responsible imo for inventing errata and causing even more mystery surrounding Motown and the lawsuits of the songwriters against Motown, as well as credits of studio musicians. More of this will be in my autobiography which explains the time-line of our contributions to Motown during the 1960s, as well as some history of people-events etc. Slutsky was fired by the fine Detroit musicians (from being "their leader") and he turned around and SUED them!

I don't want to get into the ins and outs of what may or may not be true here, but I think it's safe to say that Carol holds her share of grudges. AGD has been on the receiving end of some of this too ...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Basically, none of that is true, especially the bit about Slutsky taking all the royalties for himself.

Although, to be fair, there's a lot of Hartman's book that is either questionable or flat out inaccurate.

[Andrew G. Doe]

When did she publicly blast someone for questioning her?

Amongst others, me on the original Bloo in 2000 or so. Briefly, someone asked her what Ray Pohlman played on "GOK" and she replied that he wasn't on the session. I, and a few others, pointed out that not only was he listed on the AFM contract but he can also clearly be heard being referred to by name, at which point she pitched a fit, said she was there and we weren't and accused me of stealing AFM sheets (I was given photocopies by an associate of the band), further stating that she'd get her pal Russ Wapensky to confirm it from his researches. I politely (yeah, I know...) pointed out that, as he'd be quoting from the exact same AFM as me (and gave the number) there wasn't much point. That's when she flounced off to her own forum and started badmouthing everyone who dared to question her recollections. She's been online since the late 90s but doesn't really understand how the 'net works, as evidenced by her threatening to sue Google for selling pirated copies of her CDs and books. Seriously.

It's a huge shame: she's an outstanding musician who deserves all the acclaim she rightly gets... but she's also a very vindictive and unpleasant individual when confronted with evidence that she couldn't have played on, say, all the Motown hits she claims, or such Beach Boys titles as "Surfin' USA" and "I Was Made To Love Her". If you sign up for her forum, don't mention either my name or Slutsky's, or you'll be permanently barred.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Yikes, that is pretty rough.  And using Internet slang like IMO and btw, you'd think she were a whiny teenager.  I do have some sympathy for her as being a session musician was clearly a thankless job in her time, not to mention that she was a woman in the music industry which was a male dominated business.  Seems to me she's just trying to hold her own and at her age (she'll be 80 in two years), she wants to make sure she'll be remembered (which she surely will be) and when people doubt her claims (which as false as they may be I think she at least believes), she's afraid it will hurt her legacy.  
Regardless of what she says, the people who are interested in this sort of information will always get the truth in the end so I think it's just best not to include her in those conversations and humor her if she says something wrong.  It's not worth trying to change her mind.

[KittyKat]

I think it's sad that she no longer gets along with Hal Blaine. Hal said in his book that he wished he could have married Carol and would have been a lot happier with a woman he has so much in common with. Of course, that was written years ago.

[Sam_BFC]

You weren't serious, surely.

How's that? Look around, like every 3rd topic has posters teasing Al for his height & even calling him "elf" & such. Sorry, folks, I find it distasteful.

If you're referring to my 1st sentence, I honestly don't know the meaning of that slang in Mr. Newcombe's post. Knowing that English is a very tricky language, one can hardly say for sure what this or that phrase means. So I was just going by logic.

For someone who claims to find English so tricky, you have a remarkably good grasp of it   in a technical/theoretical sense...never a misspelt word or poorly constructed sentence!

[Micha]

Brian singing with Cusack and Dano.  Pretty cool.  Where was this?
https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/372804158161555457
https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/372851735301062657

Again, who is that cute bass player in the back?

[Nicko1234]

There's a difference between not remembering and claiming certain knowledge. There's also a difference between not remembering and publicly blasting people who are questioning your faulty memory.

True but she spoke to AGD in a similar way to how he has spoken to most other people.

And I know people who've met her who've said how nice she was.

[STE]

Brian singing with Cusack and Dano.  Pretty cool.  Where was this?
https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/372804158161555457
https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/372851735301062657

Again, who is that cute bass player in the back?

Teresa Cowles, who plays Carol Kaye in the movie.

[Wirestone]

There's a difference between not remembering and claiming certain knowledge. There's also a difference between not remembering and publicly blasting people who are questioning your faulty memory.

True but she spoke to AGD in a similar way to how he has spoken to most other people.

And I know people who've met her who've said how nice she was.

Please read the rest of the posts and the events cited. More people than AGD have serious problems with Carol because of her hyper-inflated claims.

[Micha]

Brian singing with Cusack and Dano.  Pretty cool.  Where was this?
https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/372804158161555457
https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/372851735301062657

Again, who is that cute bass player in the back?

Teresa Cowles, who plays Carol Kaye in the movie.

Thank you! (I gotta get this movie on DVD next year... )

[Andrew G. Doe]

There's a difference between not remembering and claiming certain knowledge. There's also a difference between not remembering and publicly blasting people who are questioning your faulty memory.

True but she spoke to AGD in a similar way to how he has spoken to most other people.

And I know people who've met her who've said how nice she was.

I may not be Mr. Tact & Diplomacy on occasion, but I have never, ever claimed that someone else's work was mine. Nor have I libelled anyone on the 'net. Here's something not many folk know: in 2000 she tried to bring a lawsuit to prove she played bass on a slew of MoTown hits. In pre-trial, the judge read her 'evidence', told her she didn't have a leg to stand on and threw the suit out.

[KittyKat]

Would Carol have received performance royalties or residuals if she would have won such a lawsuit?  Or do only official members of bands get performing royalties from records? I've always been confused by that.  Other than prestige, I'm not sure what studio musicians get from claiming to have performed on records. But if there are money claims involved, maybe it's more complicated than that.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Session players receive the union rate for a session: that's the purpose of the AFM Contracts - not for the elucidation of later researchers, but to ensure the studio musicians got paid correctly.

[Dudd]

Here's a bit of California Girls being played at the wrap party...
http://instagram.com/p/diytvXCF4n/#

[tony p]

Although it hasn’t been screened yet, I’m also very excited about Love & Mercy.  What was it like making that project?
 
DANO: Yeah, we did that this summer, and it’s some of the most fun I’ve ever had.  He’s a really special man, Brian Wilson, and, not just the ‘60s and the music, but his spirit is really special and strong.  And, I just fell in love with him and what he did.  If you listen to Pet Sounds, there’s really nothing like it before or since, and it was just a joy filling up on that, and learning to play the piano.  I got to work with these amazing musicians and, it was just a joy.  I don’t know if I should say that since it’s a ways off but, I think he’s got a really great story.  He’s a special guy.  I hope that we do him justice.
 
One of the reasons I’m so excited about the project, besides your involvement in it, is the screenplay by Oren [Moverman].  I loved Rampart and The Messenger.  He’s just a great screenwriter, and I’m curious what he brought to the table in terms of this script.
 
DANO: Well Oren is my friend now, and he’s a great guy.  He’s a wonderful writer like you said.  I don’t wanna give away what he wrote, but I will say that, I think that he tried to capture Brian’s spirit as well as tell a story.  I don’t think it’s a totally traditional biopic.  I think it’s gonna be a fun and accessible film, and I think it’s hopefully going to be interesting, like the man that it’s depicting.  I think he did an amazing job cracking this story, and I can’t imagine anyone else having done it, aside from him.  I know they tried to make movies about Brian for a long time, and I think music stories are tough to tell in an interesting way.  The fact that Bill [Polad] got Oren to write it is really also a smart choice on his behalf. 
 
I know you don’t wanna talk more about it, but I have one more question on this particular film.  I’m curious if you’ve heard that Atticus Ross was designing the film’s soundscape.  I’m curious to know if you’ve heard any of the score of what he’s done?
 
DANO: I haven’t yet.  I got to hang out with Atticus a little bit.  He seemed super excited, and I think they’re approaching that stuff in a really cool way.  I’m hoping to hear some of it soon actually, but we just finished at the end of August and I’m still detoxing, and trying to steer clear for a little bit. Then, I’ll be excited to see what they’re cooking up.

http://collider.com/paul-dano-12-years-a-slave-prisoners-interview/