Has Mike Expressed Remorse On Whatever Role He May Have Played in Smile's Demise

[leggo of my ego]

Being high on drugs and suffering a true mental disorder are two different things.

Brian was using drugs a lot, no?

This I have experienced myself and if my present persona could meet the leggo on drugs I'd think I was way crazy or...on drugs. Stress plus Drugs equal Wilson 66-onward.

[leggo of my ego]

I love all the people here speaking in absolutes, when the reality is we don't know sh*t about why things went down the way they did.

. Post of the week.

I'm with the both of you, as well.

I hope I didnt come off as absolute. But we do know Brian got stoned right?

That can produce pretty erratic behavior in some people. But drug use isnt mental illness the way I understand it ...can overuse of drugs cause a more permanent behavior modification? Sure but at the time of Smile I seriously doubt Brian had gone that far down the path. I know its been downplayed by people close to him back then but I'd still blame drugs before labeling the man a mental case.

[Bill Tobelman]

Is there anyone who knows you better than your cousin?

[Jason]

Is there anyone who knows you better than your cousin?

Game, set, and match. Thread over. This is the post of the fucking millennium.

[leggo of my ego]

Is there anyone who knows you better than your cousin?

Yeah, my hairdresser. 

[runnersdialzero]

Is there anyone who knows you better than your cousin?

Yer brothers. ^__________________________________^

[Mike's Beard]

I love all the people here speaking in absolutes, when the reality is we don't know sh*t about why things went down the way they did.

. Post of the week.

I'm with the both of you, as well.

I hope I didnt come off as absolute. But we do know Brian got stoned right?

That can produce pretty erratic behavior in some people. But drug use isnt mental illness the way I understand it ...can overuse of drugs cause a more permanent behavior modification? Sure but at the time of Smile I seriously doubt Brian had gone that far down the path. I know its been downplayed by people close to him back then but I'd still blame drugs before labeling the man a mental case.

These were my thoughts too. Brian was hitting the pot and the speed hard at the time and both can cause paranoia and lack of focus in a person. His problems may have started to take root but in 1967 Brian was a millon miles away from the fat, burned out mess he would eventually become. Brian's mental problems in later years is a red herring in the Smile story. A mentally ill person could not have pumped out Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends in a year and a half period.

[Cam Mott]

I love all the people here speaking in absolutes, when the reality is we don't know sh*t about why things went down the way they did.

. Post of the week.

I'm with the both of you, as well.

I hope I didnt come off as absolute. But we do know Brian got stoned right?

That can produce pretty erratic behavior in some people. But drug use isnt mental illness the way I understand it ...can overuse of drugs cause a more permanent behavior modification? Sure but at the time of Smile I seriously doubt Brian had gone that far down the path. I know its been downplayed by people close to him back then but I'd still blame drugs before labeling the man a mental case.

These were my thoughts too. Brian was hitting the pot and the speed hard at the time and both can cause paranoia and lack of focus in a person. His problems may have started to take root but in 1967 Brian was a millon miles away from the fat, burned out mess he would eventually become. Brian's mental problems in later years is a red herring in the Smile story. A mentally ill person could not have pumped out Smiley Smile, Wild Honey and Friends in a year and a half period.

It seems to me there is an interview out there where Brian says something like he was into when high and then not as into it when sober. Anybody else remember that?

[Jim V.]

Yeah I'm pretty sure he said that in the past ten years. Which of course you would discount, correct?

Ya know, since he also blamed Mike in the past ten years as well, and we obviously can't trust the man himself on that one.

[Cam Mott]

Yeah I'm pretty sure he said that in the past ten years. Which of course you would discount, correct?

Ya know, since he also blamed Mike in the past ten years as well, and we obviously can't trust the man himself on that one.

Uh, the further away from the event the less reliable as a rule imo. Does anyone have the quote with the date?

[runnersdialzero]

"Mike called me a nitwit and I said bawww and cancell the album and then I realized all my songs sucked unless I had used a paraphenelia pipe to smoke my mind into orbit." - Brian Wilson, May 19th, 1967

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'd say that date makes that statement pretty reliable

[Cam Mott]

"Mike called me a nitwit and I said bawww and cancell the album and then I realized all my songs sucked unless I had used a paraphenelia pipe to smoke my mind into orbit." - Brian Wilson, May 19th, 1967

That is REALLY reliable but that's not the one I was thinking of. Here it is:

"It was just inappropriate music for the Beach Boys. We were taking drugs at the time and we weren't in our right minds. After I came down off the drugs and saw what I had done with Smile, I junked it. I said, that's not us."

It is from Brian Wilson, Harmonic Convergence by Howard Massey which I believe is fairly recent but don't know the date. 2000ish maybe?

[Jim V.]

"Mike called me a nitwit and I said bawww and cancell the album and then I realized all my songs sucked unless I had used a paraphenelia pipe to smoke my mind into orbit." - Brian Wilson, May 19th, 1967

That is REALLY reliable but that's not the one I was thinking of. Here it is:

"It was just inappropriate music for the Beach Boys. We were taking drugs at the time and we weren't in our right minds. After I came down off the drugs and saw what I had done with Smile, I junked it. I said, that's not us."

It is from Brian Wilson, Harmonic Convergence by Howard Massey which I believe is fairly recent but don't know the date. 2000ish maybe?

So you'll take that one as gospel but not something he said three or four years later? Not that I think it's Mike's fault that the album didn't come out in the '60s. But I just wanna make sure you're not just weighing certain things more heavily when they support your points.

[Cam Mott]

"Mike called me a nitwit and I said bawww and cancell the album and then I realized all my songs sucked unless I had used a paraphenelia pipe to smoke my mind into orbit." - Brian Wilson, May 19th, 1967

That is REALLY reliable but that's not the one I was thinking of. Here it is:

"It was just inappropriate music for the Beach Boys. We were taking drugs at the time and we weren't in our right minds. After I came down off the drugs and saw what I had done with Smile, I junked it. I said, that's not us."

It is from Brian Wilson, Harmonic Convergence by Howard Massey which I believe is fairly recent but don't know the date. 2000ish maybe?

So you'll take that one as gospel but not something he said three or four years later? Not that I think it's Mike's fault that the album didn't come out in the '60s. But I just wanna make sure you're not just weighing certain things more heavily when they support your points.

Maybe you missed it: "Uh, the further away from the event the less reliable as a rule imo. Does anyone have the quote with the date?".

Do you know the date for that interview?

[Jim V.]

"Mike called me a nitwit and I said bawww and cancell the album and then I realized all my songs sucked unless I had used a paraphenelia pipe to smoke my mind into orbit." - Brian Wilson, May 19th, 1967

That is REALLY reliable but that's not the one I was thinking of. Here it is:

"It was just inappropriate music for the Beach Boys. We were taking drugs at the time and we weren't in our right minds. After I came down off the drugs and saw what I had done with Smile, I junked it. I said, that's not us."

It is from Brian Wilson, Harmonic Convergence by Howard Massey which I believe is fairly recent but don't know the date. 2000ish maybe?

So you'll take that one as gospel but not something he said three or four years later? Not that I think it's Mike's fault that the album didn't come out in the '60s. But I just wanna make sure you're not just weighing certain things more heavily when they support your points.

Maybe you missed it: "Uh, the further away from the event the less reliable as a rule imo. Does anyone have the quote with the date?".

Do you know the date for that interview?

I do not. However, I think this is something he said quite a bit during the time he was doing all the interviews promoting his solo version of SMiLE. If I can find one I'll post it though.

[Mike's Beard]

"Mike called me a nitwit and I said bawww and cancell the album and then I realized all my songs sucked unless I had used a paraphenelia pipe to smoke my mind into orbit." - Brian Wilson, May 19th, 1967

That is REALLY reliable but that's not the one I was thinking of. Here it is:

"It was just inappropriate music for the Beach Boys. We were taking drugs at the time and we weren't in our right minds. After I came down off the drugs and saw what I had done with Smile, I junked it. I said, that's not us."

It is from Brian Wilson, Harmonic Convergence by Howard Massey which I believe is fairly recent but don't know the date. 2000ish maybe?

So you'll take that one as gospel but not something he said three or four years later? Not that I think it's Mike's fault that the album didn't come out in the '60s. But I just wanna make sure you're not just weighing certain things more heavily when they support your points.

Had Mike made his stupid lawsuit by the time the latter comment was made? It might explain why Brian's claws were out again.

[Micha]

"It was just inappropriate music for the Beach Boys. We were taking drugs at the time and we weren't in our right minds. After I came down off the drugs and saw what I had done with Smile, I junked it. I said, that's not us."

That's not "us"? So why didn't he finish SMiLE and release it under the name "Brian Wilson On Drugs"? I cannot grasp he didn't do THAT.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

So why didn't he finish SMiLE and release it under the name "Brian Wilson On Drugs"?

Sure to sell a million units.

[Cam Mott]

Had Mike made his stupid lawsuit by the time the latter comment was made? It might explain why Brian's claws were out again.

I don't know the date of that interview yet but it sort of like his explanation to Bill Harriman in 1999 [and other years];

"I junked it. We junked them. I didn’t like where the music was coming from. I thought it was inappropriate for the Beach Boys and I junked it. We were taking a lot of drugs during that time and got carried away with hardly nothing."

[Jim V.]

Had Mike made his stupid lawsuit by the time the latter comment was made? It might explain why Brian's claws were out again.

I don't know the date of that interview yet but it sort of like his explanation to Bill Harriman in 1999 [and other years];

"I junked it. We junked them. I didn’t like where the music was coming from. I thought it was inappropriate for the Beach Boys and I junked it. We were taking a lot of drugs during that time and got carried away with hardly nothing."

And once again, I assume this quote means nothing to you. Since ya know, it came 32 years after the project ended. Unless of course you're going to believe Brian's assertion that Mike's objections to the project helped get it shelved.

[CenturyDeprived]

As the original poster of this thread, I think perhaps my inquiry was misunderstood a bit. I tried to elaborate upon it in a subsequent post, but people get caught up in thinking this is a intended as a Mike-bashing thread (it's not); rather, it's just an attempt to discuss and understand how certain attitudes and or decisions that people make can play indirect roles in other events... and how Mike seems to have a non-history of fessing up to mistakes or at least admitting to a twinge of regret at various actions, which would help his own reputation (and the band's) sake.

Like I said, while Mike clearly tries to not dwell on mistakes the past (which can be a good thing, to a point), I think he just puts things out of mind and doesn't address some of the elephants in the room (and addressing these elephants would heal wounds - that's the thing, I'm approaching this from a standpoint that I wish these people could work issues out - not some blind "Mike is evil" nonsense... so please don't accuse me of thinking that way, since I don't think that, and I don't intend to stir up that sentiment - this is just a discussion of imperfect people).

Just because Mike (or some outsiders like his biggest supporters on this forum) might think that he doesn't have even a single solitary thing to apologize for (or even regret) as far as his role in behavior that may have really hurt BW's feelings, that doesn't mean that BW feels that he isn't due an apology from ML.

And that's the thing - if I inadvertently hurt someone's feelings with my words/actions (bandmate/friend/etc), but felt my actions were justified at the time, but I found out later just how hurt the person was by my words/actions, I would sincerely, deeply apologize to them. That's how I communicate and interact with people that I care about. I just wish ML could be the same way (again, we don't know what has been said between these people behind closed doors, but publicly it just doesn't seem that way).

[Nicko1234]

Just because Mike (or some outsiders like his biggest supporters on this forum) might think that he doesn't have even a single solitary thing to apologize for (or even regret) as far as his role in behavior that may have really hurt BW's feelings, that doesn't mean that BW feels that he isn't due an apology from ML.

And that's the thing - if I inadvertently hurt someone's feelings with my words/actions (bandmate/friend/etc), but felt my actions were justified at the time, but I found out later just how hurt the person was by my words/actions, I would sincerely, deeply apologize to them. That's how I communicate and interact with people that I care about. I just wish ML could be the same way (again, we don't know what has been said between these people behind closed doors, but publicly it just doesn't seem that way).

I haven`t seen any of these guys apologizing to each other at any point and it ain`t gonna start now.

[Kurosawa]

Will Myke apologize to Van for behaving like a Dyck?

"mental illness" killing Smile seems to simple to be correct and I rather hold that Brian's decision was multi -faceted. If he was so sick in the head how did he pull off what he accomplished during the remainder of that decade? His output after Smile is nothing less than brilliant.

And I have yet to hear anything approaching a diagnosis of Wilson's alleged illness...exactly what is wrong with him? Hmmmm?

Well, I think the biggest culprit was his mental health problems, because it is the one thing that is different about him and the Beach Boys than there was about the other groups around. Other bands did a lot of drugs as well, but they were still able to finish projects, and ambitious ones too. Brian has schizoaffective disorder and auditory hallucinations as we have all heard, and although I don't have those issues personally, I have suffered from mental illness myself and it is never easy to deal with. You can go through horribly self-destructive phases-I even had my own "bed phase" a few years back.

Sometimes you can get better and get it together. Sometimes not. It's not something that you can ever cure.

[Cam Mott]

Had Mike made his stupid lawsuit by the time the latter comment was made? It might explain why Brian's claws were out again.

I don't know the date of that interview yet but it sort of like his explanation to Bill Harriman in 1999 [and other years];

"I junked it. We junked them. I didn’t like where the music was coming from. I thought it was inappropriate for the Beach Boys and I junked it. We were taking a lot of drugs during that time and got carried away with hardly nothing."

And once again, I assume this quote means nothing to you. Since ya know, it came 32 years after the project ended. Unless of course you're going to believe Brian's assertion that Mike's objections to the project helped get it shelved.

Am I to assume this quote means everything to you? Since ya know, it came 32 years after the project ended?  Unless of course you're going to disbelieve Brian's assertion that Mike's objections to the project helped get it shelved. 

The further from the event, the less reliable imo. However I have to say this statement is consistent with all of Brian's explanations back to the event. It's not like this pops up one off 37 years after in a self-serving promotional video by a activist producer or something.