Brian, Al, and David Tour 2013

[AndrewHickey]

It's just personal preference, I'm not claiming to speak for the common man or anything. I may be a rancid jerk and everything, but I quite prefer hearing "Wouldn't It Be Nice" the way Brian's band does it over Mike's. I understand this is possibly a flaw in my personality or at best a moral failing, as I know they both have the same exact act/setlist and everything done the same way with equally competent musicians that achieve Total Beach Boys Equivalency. But I rather like it when they have a guy with long hair racing around in the back scraping, plinking, and swatting at things to add the right percussive touches.

Admit it, Nelson is fun to watch! It's astonishing to watch such dedicated people try to recreate those sounds with every blarahonk and twang in place.

Absolutely agreed with this. Mike's band are very good, and do extremely good rock-band arrangements of the songs, as the Beach Boys did for almost all of their career, but Brian's band come much, much closer to the arrangements on the records for anything from 1965 on.

That McCartney clip actually proves the point. That doesn't sound like a French horn, but like a cheesy Casio keyboard. It's horrible. It's the one big problem I've had with the two McCartney shows I've seen, actually -- Wix is a great keyboard player, but he can't replace a full string and horn section.

As for RubberSoul's lineup...
Al isn't a very good guitarist. Never has been. He's not bad, but he's a singer, not an instrumentalist.
Both Al and Dave are only guesting with Brian's band. It's probably not a good idea to sack your only full-time guitarist (who's also a much more versatile player than Dave) because you're getting a couple of guests in for four shows, one of whom, last time he toured with a "Brian Wilson" show, dropped out of the tour half-way through.
Getting rid of Scott Bennett is also, frankly, stupid. He's the only one in Brian's band who can do a decent job on Mike's bass vocal parts (though those are usually mixed quite far down), and most post-65 songs have at least two keyboard parts. Get rid of him and you're stuck the minute you want to do, say, God Only Knows (with a piano part and a string pad played on keyboards).
As for "drummer" -- one of the great things about Brian's band has always been that they've been able to reproduce the actual drum and percussion parts that Brian wrote, which are nothing like normal rock drums, in that there's almost no cymbal or hi-hat on there, and all the high frequency information comes instead from tambourines, sleigh bells and so on. Get rid of Nelson and, even if you don't count that he's incredible fun to watch and *really* good with the fans, you have to revert to bog-standard rock drumming.

All of this is not to mention personal loyalties and so on -- RubberSoul just assumes that Darian, for example, would want to keep working in a band that had just fired Nick Walusko, who's been a friend and colleague of his for more than twenty years. I think that's far from a foregone conclusion.

Personally, I think Brian's band should be *bigger* -- he should have kept touring with the Stockholm Strings And Horns. But I think this band is a perfect compromise between what's economically possible and what's artistically perfect.

You know what would be even cheaper than RubberSoul's lineup? Get Brian a tape of "Karaoke hits of the Beach Boys" and send him on stage alone to sing along to it...

[hypehat]

Just want to agree with that, really.

Although isn't Nicky back in this tour?

[HeyJude]

We aren't talking about the philharmonic. We're talking about a rock show. And not everything is "some shitty synth pad"

Paul McCartney- For No One (2005)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bltVvdWTbzQ

Sounds pretty damn well like a french horn to me...and that was eight years ago.

The thing is, having those extra musicians depends on the material you're playing. If you have like one or two songs in your setlist that require a sax solo or woodwinds, then I don't think it's a huge deal to use a synth or replace the part with something else. One of the only things I'm not a huge fan of in Brian's band is the overuse of the sax, sometimes used as a bass instrument. I'm sorry, "This Whole World" doesn't need saxophone. But with Brian's band, enough songs need extra voices if nothing else, which alone justifies the huge band in my mind. It's a plus that they can then also do ample instrumentation on mid 60's songs and whatnot.

[HeyJude]

It's still ridiculous. If Al Jardine and David Marks are prominent guitarists (which they SHOULD be after fifty friggin years) then there is no need for any other guitarists. The Beach Boys music never calls for more than two. The lineup should be something more like this...

Brian Wilson- Vocals, Grand Piano (I get it, he needs something to hide behind. I wouldn't even bother putting the keyboard in that thing.)
Daivd Marks- Vocals, Lead Guitar
Al Jardine- Vocals, Rhythm Guitar
Jeffrey Foskett- Vocals, Acoustic Guitar
Bob Lizik- Vocals, Bass
Darian S.- Vocals, Keyboards
Probyn Gregory- Vocals, Horns
Paul Von Mertens- Woodwinds, Etc., Percussion
Drummer

Even that is pushing it...there is no real need for live horns or woodwinds, it's sort of a bonus in this day and age. I only kept foskett in there because of his falsetto and I didn't know the drummers name...

Al actually is a better guitarist than many probably think; I've seen examples of it. That being said, it's totally unrealistic in the band's 51st year to all of a sudden expect Al's guitar to play a significant role in the live show. It hasn't since the 60's. That's the way it is, for whatever the reason is.

[hypehat]

Macca is no stranger to woodwinds or strings or whatnot - he regularly plays The Long And Winding Road, My Love, Live And Let Die, Jet, Let It Be, For No One....

And plus, he's Paul McCartney, the man has more money than god, he can afford more than a bloody Casio accompaniment.

[HeyJude]

Macca is no stranger to woodwinds or strings or whatnot - he regularly plays The Long And Winding Road, My Love, Live And Let Die, Jet, Let It Be, For No One....

And plus, he's Paul McCartney, the man has more money than god, he can afford more than a bloody Casio accompaniment.

I would imagine Paul's band choices are not due to funds. He clearly likes just having a five-piece setup. It works surprisingly well, but there are moments where real strings or something would be nice.

[AndrewHickey]

Macca is no stranger to woodwinds or strings or whatnot - he regularly plays The Long And Winding Road, My Love, Live And Let Die, Jet, Let It Be, For No One....

And plus, he's Paul McCartney, the man has more money than god, he can afford more than a bloody Casio accompaniment.

Absolutely. The first time I saw McCartney in late 2001 was a month or two after I'd seen Brian playing the Manchester Apollo (a 3000-ish capacity venue) with his full band, and Arthur Lee playing the Manchester Academy (a 2000-capacity one) with twelve musicians (Baby Lemonade and the Stockholm Strings And Horns). McCartney was playing the 21,000-seat MEN Arena and charging twice as much as Brian (and five times as much as Arthur Lee) for tickets. If Brian and Arthur Lee could do it properly, there was no excuse in the world for McCartney not to -- especially since he'd spent money on fireworks, and on stilt-walkers, jugglers and so on to walk through the crowd prior to the show.

It's a matter of priorities, and for me the priority should always be doing the best possible justice to the music.

[RubberSoul13]

That McCartney clip actually proves the point. That doesn't sound like a French horn, but like a cheesy Casio keyboard. It's horrible. It's the one big problem I've had with the two McCartney shows I've seen, actually -- Wix is a great keyboard player, but he can't replace a full string and horn section.

As for RubberSoul's lineup...
Al isn't a very good guitarist. Never has been. He's not bad, but he's a singer, not an instrumentalist.
Both Al and Dave are only guesting with Brian's band. It's probably not a good idea to sack your only full-time guitarist (who's also a much more versatile player than Dave) because you're getting a couple of guests in for four shows, one of whom, last time he toured with a "Brian Wilson" show, dropped out of the tour half-way through.
Getting rid of Scott Bennett is also, frankly, stupid. He's the only one in Brian's band who can do a decent job on Mike's bass vocal parts (though those are usually mixed quite far down), and most post-65 songs have at least two keyboard parts. Get rid of him and you're stuck the minute you want to do, say, God Only Knows (with a piano part and a string pad played on keyboards).
As for "drummer" -- one of the great things about Brian's band has always been that they've been able to reproduce the actual drum and percussion parts that Brian wrote, which are nothing like normal rock drums, in that there's almost no cymbal or hi-hat on there, and all the high frequency information comes instead from tambourines, sleigh bells and so on. Get rid of Nelson and, even if you don't count that he's incredible fun to watch and *really* good with the fans, you have to revert to bog-standard rock drumming.

All of this is not to mention personal loyalties and so on -- RubberSoul just assumes that Darian, for example, would want to keep working in a band that had just fired Nick Walusko, who's been a friend and colleague of his for more than twenty years. I think that's far from a foregone conclusion.

Personally, I think Brian's band should be *bigger* -- he should have kept touring with the Stockholm Strings And Horns. But I think this band is a perfect compromise between what's economically possible and what's artistically perfect.

You know what would be even cheaper than RubberSoul's lineup? Get Brian a tape of "Karaoke hits of the Beach Boys" and send him on stage alone to sing along to it...

I'm not going to get into McCartney on here and jack the thread but, He's the best live show on the planet. None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career. That isn't a shitty casio either, that sounds like a french horn.

ANYWAY...I think this will be a justifiable response to all the other comments too: Al Jardine and David Marks shouldn't be on the tour if they can't pull their weight. Contrary to what someone said, I think David is probably the best guitarist in Brian's band. Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix. But I'd imagine they'll use his voice to cover all of Mike's leads and make him seem even less important to the legacy.

Another thing everyone is conveniently leaving out, is that having more musicians doesn't add up to the cost of the performer...it adds to the cost of the FANS......

[Dave Modny]

Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix.

He actually played some fairly decent higher neck riffs and barre chords during that book store performance he did before the big tour. I think it's on YouTube.


I was even somewhat taken aback. He wasn't bad at all.

[ontor pertawst]

I'm not going to get into McCartney on here and jack the thread but, He's the best live show on the planet. None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career. That isn't a shitty casio either, that sounds like a french horn.

ANYWAY...I think this will be a justifiable response to all the other comments too: Al Jardine and David Marks shouldn't be on the tour if they can't pull their weight. Contrary to what someone said, I think David is probably the best guitarist in Brian's band. Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix.

Pull their weight? Al just needs to sing. He's got a great voice and stuff!

So what if he prefers to have something in his hands while singing? He'd look really silly standing there without any kind of dynamic stage presence and would indeed resemble a man waiting for a bus. It's how he's done it his entire life! It's comfortable. What sort of man would want an uncomfortable Alan Jardine? I say only a monster, or one using it for a cheap rhetorical point...

But I'd imagine they'll use his voice to cover all of Mike's leads and make him seem even less important to the legacy.

Ohhhh, that's what this is all about. Mike's legacy. Oh. Carry on then. Keyboards sound just like french horns and nobody needs woodwinds in this day and age.

[Smilin Ed H]

"I was even somewhat taken aback. He wasn't bad at all."

I believe he's been honing his craft for a few years now.

[HeyJude]

Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix.

He actually played some fairly decent higher neck riffs and barre chords during that book store performance he did before the big tour. I think it's on YouTube.


I was even somewhat taken aback. He wasn't bad at all.

I've said it in numerous old posts, but Al is a pretty solid guitar player; I witnessed him playing leads on some BB classics at a solo (non-"Beach Band") show in 2005. He played the little leads on stuff like "409" and "Sail on Sailor." He's not a virtuoso, but he's much better than he almost ever shows. Listen to his playing as well on stuff like his acoustic version of "California Saga" (released on an ESQ CD).

[HeyJude]

I'm not going to get into McCartney on here and jack the thread but, He's the best live show on the planet. None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career. That isn't a shitty casio either, that sounds like a french horn.

ANYWAY...I think this will be a justifiable response to all the other comments too: Al Jardine and David Marks shouldn't be on the tour if they can't pull their weight. Contrary to what someone said, I think David is probably the best guitarist in Brian's band. Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix. But I'd imagine they'll use his voice to cover all of Mike's leads and make him seem even less important to the legacy.

Another thing everyone is conveniently leaving out, is that having more musicians doesn't add up to the cost of the performer...it adds to the cost of the FANS......

McCartney puts on a great show, especially for his age and pulling the entire show along himself with a small band. But having seen him numerous times on tour since he came back out in 2002, I'd say the Beach Boys 50th Anniversary Tour was as good, and perhaps in many ways BETTER than any McCartney show I've ever seen, and this is coming from a fan who, while despising the "Beatles vs. Beach Boys" debate, would pick the Beatles if forced. McCartney's show was and is better than most typical BB tours, but not the 50th tour.  

The 50th tour easily had a more impressive show length and setlist selection than most McCartney tours. McCartney RARELY changes the setlist during a tour (he does change out several songs in between tours), while the BB's rotated in and out enough songs to amount to 61 by the end of the 50th tour. McCartney's tours are usually around 36-38 songs (yes, I know his songs are on average longer; he doesn't have as many 1:30 car songs like the BB's do).

McCartney has never done a 61 song setlist like the BB's did at Royal Albert Hall. I'd also say that at least Jardine's voice has held up better than McCartney's, although again Al isn't singing the entire show and the vocal range is more dynamic on many McCartney songs.

[Dave Modny]

"I was even somewhat taken aback. He wasn't bad at all."

I believe he's been honing his craft for a few years now.

Well, yes, obviously...smartass. 

We just have precious few examples of his live craft where he's not just strumming along or playing an intro. Thus, it's a shock to hear it if one's not expecting it.

[Dave Modny]

Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix.

He actually played some fairly decent higher neck riffs and barre chords during that book store performance he did before the big tour. I think it's on YouTube.


I was even somewhat taken aback. He wasn't bad at all.

I've said it in numerous old posts, but Al is a pretty solid guitar player; I witnessed him playing leads on some BB classics at a solo (non-"Beach Band") show in 2005. He played the little leads on stuff like "409" and "Sail on Sailor." He's not a virtuoso, but he's much better than he almost ever shows. Listen to his playing as well on stuff like his acoustic version of "California Saga" (released on an ESQ CD).

I'll take it one step further and say, even on live stuff like the "legendary" Strawberry Fest version of The Welfare Song. I actually wish we could sometimes get to hear him sit down and take a number, more often, by himself these days. Just him and acoustic guitar.

Big Al fan here.

[AndrewHickey]

I'm not going to get into McCartney on here and jack the thread but, He's the best live show on the planet. None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career. That isn't a shitty casio either, that sounds like a french horn.

McCartney is a fantastic live performer, but that doesn't make that keyboard sound any less fake.

ANYWAY...I think this will be a justifiable response to all the other comments too: Al Jardine and David Marks shouldn't be on the tour if they can't pull their weight.

Who said they can't pull their weight?

Contrary to what someone said, I think David is probably the best guitarist in Brian's band.

He's a good guitarist, but he'll play something different every night, and it doesn't always work. Brian's music needs musicians with little enough personal ego that they're prepared to play the same dull background part every time.

Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix. But I'd imagine they'll use his voice to cover all of Mike's leads and make him seem even less important to the legacy.

Yes, because he is, first and foremost, a singer, not a guitarist (though I *have* heard his guitar in the mix, on the three reunion shows I saw).

Another thing everyone is conveniently leaving out, is that having more musicians doesn't add up to the cost of the performer...it adds to the cost of the FANS......

Not really. When I've seen Brian and Mike play, they've usually charged about the same for tickets.
A normal Brian show has nine people on stage (ten when Taylor was in the band) as opposed to Mike's "stripped-down" seven. I don't know what Brian pays his musicians, but I suspect it isn't a huge amount, and certainly not enough to make a noticeable difference when split between three thousand people's tickets.

Personally I'd *far* rather pay the extra, anyway, to see the best collection of live musicians I've ever heard (actually the *very* best was the reunion line-up, but that's largely the same people...). I've never once, at a Brian show or a reunion show, thought "damn, I wish he would sack one of those great musicians on stage, because their wage might have added as much as one whole pound to my ticket price. I might have been able to buy an extra half a glass of cola in the bar at the interview if Brian didn't keep Nick Walusko in a job..."

[Nicko1234]

Not really. When I've seen Brian and Mike play, they've usually charged about the same for tickets.
A normal Brian show has nine people on stage (ten when Taylor was in the band) as opposed to Mike's "stripped-down" seven. I don't know what Brian pays his musicians, but I suspect it isn't a huge amount, and certainly not enough to make a noticeable difference when split between three thousand people's tickets.

Really?

That may have been true at times but the ticket prices for Brian`s gigs have sometimes been very much in excess of Mike and Bruce`s. That may be as much down to them having higher travelling costs as well though.

[AndrewHickey]

Not really. When I've seen Brian and Mike play, they've usually charged about the same for tickets.
A normal Brian show has nine people on stage (ten when Taylor was in the band) as opposed to Mike's "stripped-down" seven. I don't know what Brian pays his musicians, but I suspect it isn't a huge amount, and certainly not enough to make a noticeable difference when split between three thousand people's tickets.

Really?

That may have been true at times but the ticket prices for Brian`s gigs have sometimes been very much in excess of Mike and Bruce`s. That may be as much down to them having higher travelling costs as well though.

The most recent Brian gig I saw was in 2011 at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester -- tickets cost £45.
The last time I saw Mike's band in a comparable venue (the Manchester Apollo -- both seated venues with around the same capacity, in the same city) was in 2008. Tickets were £44.50. (Though there was one extra musician on stage at that show -- David Marks).

Mike's band's show at Epsom in 2011 was cheaper -- £31.50 -- but that was in a venue with 20,000+ capacity, as opposed to a medium sized theatre or concert hall, so not really comparable.

[AndrewHickey]

Just want to agree with that, really.

Although isn't Nicky back in this tour?

Yes he is -- I was saying that if he was fired, as RubberSoul suggests, Darian et al might not be very happy...

[Nicko1234]

Not really. When I've seen Brian and Mike play, they've usually charged about the same for tickets.
A normal Brian show has nine people on stage (ten when Taylor was in the band) as opposed to Mike's "stripped-down" seven. I don't know what Brian pays his musicians, but I suspect it isn't a huge amount, and certainly not enough to make a noticeable difference when split between three thousand people's tickets.

Really?

That may have been true at times but the ticket prices for Brian`s gigs have sometimes been very much in excess of Mike and Bruce`s. That may be as much down to them having higher travelling costs as well though.

The most recent Brian gig I saw was in 2011 at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester -- tickets cost £45.
The last time I saw Mike's band in a comparable venue (the Manchester Apollo -- both seated venues with around the same capacity, in the same city) was in 2008. Tickets were £44.50. (Though there was one extra musician on stage at that show -- David Marks).

Mike's band's show at Epsom in 2011 was cheaper -- £31.50 -- but that was in a venue with 20,000+ capacity, as opposed to a medium sized theatre or concert hall, so not really comparable.

As I said, that maybe true at times but some of the old threads about Brian`s tours struggling to sell tickets highlight the very high prices at certain venues (not all).

[AndrewHickey]

As I said, that maybe true at times but some of the old threads about Brian`s tours struggling to sell tickets highlight the very high prices at certain venues (not all).

I think that's more down to the venues than anything else, though. Brian's band tend only to play one kind of venue (at least in the UK) -- 3000-5000 seat theatres and concert halls. When Mike's band play those kind of venues, they charge the same.

Mike's band also, though, play two other kinds of shows -- very big ones like Epsom, where they can charge less per head because there are far more people, and things like casino shows, where their cost is subsidised by the promoters as they're a loss-leader to get people to do other stuff.

Put it this way... I've been told in the past (but not allowed to say publicly) what Mike and Bruce charge for a show. I know for a fact that *whenever they play a gig where their appearance fee is fully covered by the ticket price* they charge as much as Brian...

[Tony S]

I agree with the comments that Al is a better guitarist than he's given credit for. I have the acoustic version of California Saga, and assuming that is Al on guitar, he does a great job with it.

[RubberSoul13]

Now I remember why I kept my mouth shut after C50.....you aren't allowed to have an opinion on this board.....

[AndrewHickey]

Now I remember why I kept my mouth shut after C50.....you aren't allowed to have an opinion on this board.....

Nobody's stopping you from having an opinion. Unless you think that your stating your opinion means we must all immediately accept it, rather than discuss it?

[Wirestone]

Now I remember why I kept my mouth shut after C50.....you aren't allowed to have an opinion on this board.....

You go onto a BB board and praise Macca while actually writing "None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career" and expect people to just nod? Folks here (including myself) can be prickly at times, but your comment was pretty darn provocative. And I'm glad you said it! But you'll hear about it, too.