The Beatles *sigh*

[Summer_Days]

If so, I wonder what setting it was on...

[pixletwin]

Serious question to Bill: What is your favorite film with The Beatles? Mine is Magical Mystery Tour, Ringo's really fun to watch there. Also I like their Shakespeare sketch, here's the link if you haven't yet seen that, enjoy:

A Midsummer Night's Dream (Utterly entertaining 60s artifact! The chasing scene with "girley" John & lion Ringo is sth. else!)

Ditto for me. My favorite Beatle film is Magical Mystery Tour. I am sucker for surrealism, and Magical Mystery Tour has it in spades.

[RangeRoverA1]

Ditto for me. My favorite Beatle film is Magical Mystery Tour. I am sucker for surrealism, and Magical Mystery Tour has it in spades.

I love surrealistic films/cartoons too! Let me ask, what is your fave MMT scene? I for one like the singalong moment in the bus. Aunt Jessie was hilarious when she tried to dance can-can while sitting.

[pixletwin]

Ditto for me. My favorite Beatle film is Magical Mystery Tour. I am sucker for surrealism, and Magical Mystery Tour has it in spades.

I love surrealistic films/cartoons too! Let me ask, what is your fave MMT scene? I for one like the singalong moment in the bus. Aunt Jessie was hilarious when she tried to dance can-can while sitting.

I think my favorite non-music scene is the one based on a dream Lennon had. He is the waiter and he keeps shoveling spaghetti on the table for Jessie to eat and she is worried she can't eat it all. Aside from that I love "I am the Walrus" and the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band strip tease. So weird. 

[Jay]

I always liked Ivor Cutler for some odd reason.  He always has a Buster Keaton-like "stone face" throughout the movie. It's like he's determined to not have a good time.  The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah scene is weird as hell. I always liked the song though. Some people say that the story in the song is another "Paul is dead" clue.

Fun fact: It's rumored that Paul very briefly exposes his penis during the "The Fool On The Hill" sequence.

[guitarfool2002]

Re: The "Morse Code" on Strawberry Fields, first verse...

I'll say from the start I don't know exactly what made that sound. I can recommend listening (and watching) one of at least three video appearances where Paul himself demonstrates how he played that intro on the Mellotron - One is on Anthology, one was his "Chaos And Creation" live at Abbey Road performance, and the other was something around his Oobu Jubu series.

He plays the flute "stop", which was like engaging a stop on an old pipe organ but with the Mellotron it would engage a set of tape loops installed in the machine featuring the sound you wanted. He plays the intro, then holds a chord and reaches over to a knob which slowed the tape machines down and would change the pitch in real time, just like slowing any tape down on any machine. That was a neat demonstration he did because in pre-internet days short of actually seeing a Mellotron or playing one in person, many folks didn't know how they did that pitch-shift effect back in '66.

Now the mythology around the Morse Code part reached the absurd, where the urban legend was that the code actually spelled out "J L", and other related stories - totally untrue.

And some evidence (soon to come) suggests that the bleeps themselves were a byproduct of having to change the sound setting on the Mellotron, like in later MIDI setups where you'd need to throw (digitally) a series of program changes to change your sounds. But the Mellotron is primarily an analog, mechanical instrument and isn't reliant on a computer or anything like that...so if you did change those patches or tape banks in real time, it was a mechanical change that shouldn't have produced a computer-like noise when doing so.

Right? I'd like to know for sure, therefore the challenge: I have not seen one yet, but can anyone find an example of someone replicating that sound with a Mellotron in use?

And this more solid proof from the actual studio sessions: Listen to the series of sessions for SFF. On take 2, the Morse Code bit isn't there, but Paul is playing the Mellotron part minus the slow-down/pitch shift.

Then starting at take 3, every time Paul reached over to turn that knob to slow the tape loops and get that pitch drop, you hear the Mellotron start bleeping the Morse Code pattern just afterward, like it was responding to Paul's real-time pitch manipulation. Every time Paul drops the pitch on those earlier takes, even in later verses which got buried after they did the famous tape splice to get into the brass-and-drums heavy section, the Mellotron answers with that series of bleeps.

Is it the Mellotron making those beeps: From the evidence on early takes 2-3-4, *yes*.

Have I ever seen anyone since 1966 duplicate those beeps on a Mellotron when playing the song on a vintage Mellotron? *No*.

[Jay]

OK, I'm going to nominate guitarfool2002 for poster of the year...for every year he's been a member here.  Seriously, your posts are always really great and always informative.

It's been a while since I've listened to the SFF session tapes, but I'm going to tonight!    Maybe somebody here might be able to help? Mr. Desper maybe?

On a somewhat related note, is it true that there is Morse Code on Sail On Sailor?

[guitarfool2002]

OK, I'm going to nominate guitarfool2002 for poster of the year...for every year he's been a member here.  Seriously, your posts are always really great and always informative.

It's been a while since I've listened to the SFF session tapes, but I'm going to tonight!    Maybe somebody here might be able to help? Mr. Desper maybe?

On a somewhat related note, is it true that there is Morse Code on Sail On Sailor?

That was very nice, thank you very much!

[Jay]

So I was just listening to the Strawberry Fields Forever sessions, and I noticed something. Is it just me, or does the tone of the beeps change slightly between certain takes? It seems like the pitch may be slightly higher or lower on certain takes. I believe I noticed it the most on takes 4 and 5 specifically.

[modestmaus]

Is it true that the lack of Beatles on Spotify is more down to the deal with iTunes than anything else? If you had to make a prediction for when The Beatles catalog might start showing up on Spotify, what would it be? I know I'm setting myself up for disappointment here but, if Apple Records/the remaining living Beatles & the estates of the departed Beatles wants to something big for next year (50th anniversary of the Ed Sullivan appearance, etc.) getting the catalog on Spotify would certainly do the trick. (Though I am more so hoping next year will get something akin to 'Anthology 4').


I've had fantasies of a Sgt. Pepper Sessions Box Set going through my mind and so I ask: Did the bootleggers get a hold of everything or is there a pretty good chance that if such a set was released that it would contain alternate takes and the like that even the most hardcore of Beatles collectors haven't heard? Also, would they be able to include vocals only tracks and instruments only tracks versions of all the songs (ala: Pet Sounds sessions)?

[JohnMill]

Is it true that the lack of Beatles on Spotify is more down to the deal with iTunes than anything else? If you had to make a prediction for when The Beatles catalog might start showing up on Spotify, what would it be? I know I'm setting myself up for disappointment here but, if Apple Records/the remaining living Beatles & the estates of the departed Beatles wants to something big for next year (50th anniversary of the Ed Sullivan appearance, etc.) getting the catalog on Spotify would certainly do the trick. (Though I am more so hoping next year will get something akin to 'Anthology 4').


I've had fantasies of a Sgt. Pepper Sessions Box Set going through my mind and so I ask: Did the bootleggers get a hold of everything or is there a pretty good chance that if such a set was released that it would contain alternate takes and the like that even the most hardcore of Beatles collectors haven't heard? Also, would they be able to include vocals only tracks and instruments only tracks versions of all the songs (ala: Pet Sounds sessions)?

From what I understand what might be on tap next year is the DVD issue of "Let It Be" (which seems to continually get pushed another year with each passing year) and possibly a DVD release of assorted live performance footage.  Those have been the rumors that have been bandied about this year although nothing definitive outside of "street rumors".

I think you'll find as far as alternate takes go, there is still a wealth of material at the disposal of whomever should choose to compile it when it comes to The Beatles.  The issue seems to be judging from interviews given around the time of "Anthology 3" that the powers that be believe that everything of value in the vaults was released as part of the "Anthology" series and any further releases of that nature would be akin to scraping the bottom of the barrel as they once put it.  While it's true that the "Anthology" series probably did capture the best bits and bobs of what EMI has in it's vaults, as I've previously stated there are literally hours upon hours of Beatles multi-tracks on which to draw future archival releases from.

The problem is as Beatles author Richie Unterberger states in his book "The Unreleased Beatles", that while all of The Beatles archival material may eventually be available to fans, this won't likely happen in our lifetime.  According to Unterberger, essentially the way music is distributed to the public will have to change before the vaults are opened for the public to enjoy.  Right now there is no feasible way to market the bulk of this material to anyone outside the diehard fanbase or collector.  Collectors for years have been clamoring for The Beatles to set up a "pay site" where for a monthly fee, Beatles fans could download whatever they wanted from the archives in digital format.  However, realistically we are probably decades away from a pipe dream like that being a viable option as a method of distribution for something of this scale.  So we wait...

[rogerlancelot]

I've had fantasies of a Sgt. Pepper Sessions Box Set going through my mind and so I ask: Did the bootleggers get a hold of everything or is there a pretty good chance that if such a set was released that it would contain alternate takes and the like that even the most hardcore of Beatles collectors haven't heard? Also, would they be able to include vocals only tracks and instruments only tracks versions of all the songs (ala: Pet Sounds sessions)?

I have made vocal and instrument only mixes of the album using the MOGG files which are pretty easy to find out there. It's amazing how out of tune John & Paul's backup vocals on "With A Little Help" are without the music or conversely how beautiful they are on "She's Leaving Home".

[Jay]

As far as Beatles archive rumors, there is supposedly going to be a Live AT The BBC Volume 2 set released in October. I'd love it if the early Pete Best BBC appearances are included, but the sound quality is pretty bad from what I've heard. There is also the odd unique song that wasn't included on the first BBC set, "Beautiful Dreamer".

[JohnMill]

As far as Beatles archive rumors, there is supposedly going to be a Live AT The BBC Volume 2 set released in October. I'd love it if the early Pete Best BBC appearances are included, but the sound quality is pretty bad from what I've heard. There is also the odd unique song that wasn't included on the first BBC set, "Beautiful Dreamer".

"Beautiful Dreamer" is one that just didn't work.  A lot of the Merseyside groups plied their hands at adapting old standards giving them the beat music treatment and well "Beautiful Dreamer" should have just been left alone.  It's embarrassing to say the least and one has to wonder if the BBC didn't suggest an adaptation of this standard to The Beatles.  Probably not though as by this time they were already including things like "A Taste Of Honey" and "Till There Was You" in their set. 

Anyhow, a new BBC set while interesting is probably justifiably scraping the bottom of the barrel as I mentioned before.  There are I believe five cuts that The Beatles recorded for the BBC that have not seen official release, one of which is the aforementioned "Beautiful Dreamer".  Three of those performances come from the Pete Best appearances which as you mentioned is below the Mendoza line when it comes to being of releasable standard.   There are some interesting improvisations though such as the "Crimble Medley" heard on the "Anthology DVD" where they mash together their first five singles along with "Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer" and a collaboration with Rolf Harris on "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport" which I'm actually surprised wasn't officially released on "Live At The BBC" in 1994. 

I don't know there is just so much more interesting material in EMI's vault, where they really shouldn't have to paw through the BBC archives again to release an archival package to the public.  Of course I'll buy it if it comes out and I hope it does include the Pete Best material.  Best has done several appearances at "Beatlefest" weekends over the years and all reports are that he is a class act all the way and was appreciative of the royalties he received from the "Anthology" project.  So it would be nice to see another windfall coming his way.

[guitarfool2002]

I also wonder why "Tie Me Kangaroo..." with Rolf Harris wasn't on the BBC release, could it have been something with copyrights or some kind of clearance issue with Rolf Harris as the Beach Boys apparently had with their appearance on the Andy Williams show not being released? I had that performance on a BBC cassette boot several years before the official release, and was sure a performance that interesting would have made it, and the sound quality was just fine. Anything that rhymes "dingo" with "Ringo" deserved to come out!

Of course after this week, Rolf Harris seems to have some bigger issues to deal with than a Beatles tape...

[JohnMill]

Of course after this week, Rolf Harris seems to have some bigger issues to deal with than a Beatles tape...

Which will probably torpedo any chance of it being on any future archival release.  Unfortunately in today's PC society, any type of major brand (including The Beatles) wouldn't want to have their public image tarnished by being associated with anything like what Harris is engaged in at the moment.  

It's something I've often thought about in regards to The Beatles archival material.  While there isn't anything necessarily salacious in the archives that we know of, certain things like "No Pakistanis" will probably never merit official release because of the aforementioned PC issue.  While anyone with an IQ over two would understand that "No Pakistanis" isn't a racist song (it is in fact anti-racist), that still didn't stop the pundits in the eighties from jumping all over it after hearing a bootleg tape of the recording.  Macca had to answer for it too, having to explain the origins of "Get Back" as being a bit of a protest song.  

[guitarfool2002]

JohnMill, that is a good point. I think some of the reluctance to release certain material comes down to protecting an image, or not wanting the public to hear these celebrities unfiltered, as they would be on certain studio session tapes, for example. But realistically, the image of The Beatles could be just as harmed in some circles by the tales of their sexual exploits on the road, on tour, whatever, yet it doesn't seem to be much of an issue for the general public even as the stories kept coming out in various books and the like.

With Rolf Harris, in light of this week's events, I think you're right about that particular piece of audio.

[SMiLE-addict]

And then there is Carnival of Light which, AFAIK, is the only truly unreleased Beatles full track left (as opposed to alternative mixes, early days jams and the like). Somewhere else I read that there exists only 2 copies of it - McCartney has a copy and I think maybe Geoff Emerick has the other. And Paul has said that it will, in fact, be released someday.

The world awaits.

EDIT: The Wiki article states there is also a master version at Abbey Road studios. So maybe there's 3 copies?

[JohnMill]

And then there is Carnival of Light which, AFAIK, is the only truly unreleased Beatles full track left (as opposed to alternative mixes, early days jams and the like). Somewhere else I read that there exists only 2 copies of it - McCartney has a copy and I think maybe Geoff Emerick has the other. And Paul has said that it will, in fact, be released someday.

The world awaits.

EDIT: The Wiki article states there is also a master version at Abbey Road studios. So maybe there's 3 copies?

The multi-track for "Carnival Of Light" has always resided in EMI's archives.  It was recorded on January 5, 1967 during a session that also saw work done on "Penny Lane".  From all accounts it's Macca's "Revolution 9", a rambling collage of sound effects featuring all four Beatles and was recorded to serve as a soundtrack for a rave that was being held at The Roundhouse Theater around this time.  It has been slated for official release twice to my knowledge, the first being on "Anthology 2" where it was supplanted by the instrumental "Within You, Without You".  The reason being because allegedly George Harrison felt that "Carnival Of Light" was too self indulgent to merit an official release.  Subsequently it was also slated for release as the soundtrack to a Linda McCartney photo montage/film on The Beatles but in the wake of her death in 1998, that film has yet to see release.  It's also possible that since "Carnival Of Light" is a Beatles recording, that Macca would have some difficulty including it in any project of a solo nature although as you noted, he has been promising to release it for around a decade now.

My enthusiasm for this track has been tempered by the knowledge that both the track's length and the lack of commercial appeal of a fourteen minute sound collage means that the track will probably be edited in some form if it ever is officially sanctioned for release.  To me that is a major bummer and almost defeats the purpose of releasing the track at all.  My hope is that if the track is ever released officially that it will be used as the bed for fourteen minutes of rare Beatles footage (or photographs) on a DVD release where we can hear the entire track for ourselves.  

In the end, it's unfortunate that Beatles fans are somewhat screwed in that the two most sought after archival items, "Carnival Of Light" and the 27 minute "Helter Skelter" are so lengthy that there is probably no way they could ever be officially sanctioned for release in their unadulterated forms.  

PS: There is one other completely unreleased track in the Beatles archives that was only discovered a few years ago.  The track was recorded during the "White Album" sessions and it's a McCartney composition entitled "Etcetera".  It is a solo McCartney recording performed in one take and prior to it's discovery either in EMI's archives or McCartney's own tape cache was thought to have been lost to time.  The music itself is apparently identical to "Thingumybob", an instrumental Macca would later donate to the Black Dyke Mills Band.  Unlike "Thingumybob" however, "Etcetera" is said to feature lyrics.  Interestingly, George Harrison would also use "Thingumybob" to form the track for one of his unreleased compositions entitled "Maureen" a track he claimed he wrote with Bob Dylan likely during their Thanksgiving holidays during the Winter of 1968.  

[alf wiedersehen]

That's some pretty cool info. Thanks for that, John.

I've been wanting, along with everyone else, to hear "Carnival of Light" and the twenty-seven minute "Helter Skelter" for a while now. I think at some point, we'll probably get them. I can see not wanting to release them due to how long the songs are, but The Beatles fan base is so massive, that I'm not totally sure you could say it would be "uncommercial."

I had not heard about "Etcetera," but it sounds like it could be pretty good. Perhaps all three will be included on some compilation, a revamped Rarities.

[Jay]

That 27 minute version of Helter Skelter has been on my "bucket list" since I first read about it back in the early 1990's. I doubt that I'll ever get to hear it. But then again, the full ten minute take of Revolution that basically turns into an early form of Revolution #9 was on the list too. I didn't think I'd ever get to hear it, until it literally appeared out of the blue one day.

[Jay]

There is one other "genuine unreleased beatles song" called Tip Of My Tongue, but it looks like no copy has survived.

[guitarfool2002]

If they were to release "Carnival Of Light" there is no doubt it would sell. The hype alone would drive the fan base, and I'd bet you'd sell tens of thousands of copies to various DJs, electronica, and EDM fans who have heard the rumors about this track. Whether the legend equals the reality wouldn't be a factor here.

That's the problem, I think, with some Beatles release decisions. Overall they've done a good job minding the store and keeping the legacy, but at the same time do they realize they could have a successful release if they didn't focus most on the type of fan who would buy things like the #1s, and Red and Blue hits comps? And as mentioned, is there much more unique material left from the BBC broadcasts short of hearing another 3 versions of From Me To You? 

The Jan '67 date of "Carnival Of Light" is very interesting...remember there is a short tape of McCartney working on Penny Lane overdubs from that time in the studio, where the tapes are treated to various sound effects, various tape delay and reverb effects, and in general might be called just a bit psychedelic in nature.

I'd go so far as to say I hear elements of what Brian was doing on certain Smile session tapes and goof-off sessions on that McCartney/Penny Lane tape.

And because of that, as soon as I heard it, it became one of my favorite Beatles related outtakes which I don't see a lot of people discussing as much as some others. Yet some find it unlistenable or boring.

[Jay]

I don't think I've ever heard that Penny Lane tape. I've never even heard of it, actually. I've heard an overdub session with George Martin. Is that it?

[guitarfool2002]

I don't think I've ever heard that Penny Lane tape. I've never even heard of it, actually. I've heard an overdub session with George Martin. Is that it?

It may be a version of it, there are several versions with the Penny Lane horn/wind musicians, George Martin, and Paul. The first time I heard it was a shorter version on the "Pepperland" disc. Then there are different length cuts of it, one lasting 14 minutes.

What's so interesting is that there are sounds and parts of it very similar to what Brian Wilson had done a few months earlier. The tape captures the horn players telling a joke, which reminded me of what Brian was trying to do by letting the tape roll on his "George Fell..." session.

But that's a minor part - the real similarity is in the tape effects that were added to bits of Paul's piano playing, and other parts of this rambling tape. The effects they applied, whoever did it and for whatever reason, are strikingly similar to some of those Smile session reels. Someone starts messing with the tape speed oscillator, and the tape starts pitching and wowing creating odd effects. There are tape delay "mini explosions", certain ways the delay is added to Paul's piano noodling, just the overall textures and sounds could have come from a Smile tape if it weren't the chords of Penny Lane. That's what is so interesting to hear!

Take the time it was done - early January 1967 - and it could have been Paul messing with the effects as he did similar things with manipulating tape and effects for "Carnival Of Light" that same week.

The question is what was this for, why did he/they do it, and had Paul heard some of Brian's similar studio goofing around from those November 1966 sessions as an inspiration for this experimentation? And was any of this in any way connected to what he was doing with Carnival Of Light, maybe more in concept than actual purpose?