The Beatles *sigh*

[Jay]

Kind of afraid to as I hated the released version when I used to hear it on the oldies station. Kind of scared to hear it again. Hoping my opinion has changed though.

Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9TdkGsJMIE. Oh man, I can't wait for you to get to the Beatles For Sale album. I have a very, er..."unique" alternate take of What You're Doing for you. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I...think I'm gonna wait til I get to the next album and hear the original...wouldn't want to cloud my judgment (or void my bowels...well, not until it's naturally time to, of course).

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah the Pete Best stuff isn't worth hearing for a non fan. I like PPM for it being raw and enthusiastic, but like I mention in my post above I knew it wouldn't be your cup of tea.

I had a feeling it wouldn't be, but I still expected more. I actually felt a strong sense of disappointment, cause I was wanting to be blown away.

[guitarfool2002]

If we're jumping ahead and posting Beatles For Sale outtakes that are less than flattering, why not post "Leave My Kitten Alone", which is one of the most all-out rocking covers they ever did and one of those Lennon lead vocals where he's simply tearing it up? Nah, we wouldn't want to post outtakes that show the Beatles kicking ass and sounding like a great rock band, would we...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm gonna get to the outtakes after the albums proper! I'm hoping to hear something grand.

I will say I have Do you Want to Know a secret stuck in my head still.

[Jay]

There is an unreleased George Harrison demo called You Know What To Do that really knocked my dad and I out when we first heard it. It's on Anthology 1.

[alf wiedersehen]

I'm gonna get to the outtakes after the albums proper! I'm hoping to hear something grand.

I will say I have Do you Want to Know a secret stuck in my head still.

The aren't that many great out-takes from The Beatles. Most of the good ones are released, like "Leave My Kitten Alone." Most of the stuff from the beginning is a lot of covers, and later it's often fragments of songs that evolved or were stitched into other songs (sound familiar?), like "Everyone Had a Hard Year" and "She Can Talk to Me."  It's not exactly a Beach Boys situation where there's some gold sitting locked away on the shelves. However, I am dying to hear "Carnival of Light."

Here are some good out-takes for you to hunt down:
Isn't it a Pity
Not Guilty
Happy Rishikesh Song
Sour Milk Sea
Circles (This is a pretty odd song.)
What's the New Mary Jane (Another weird one, but I like it.)
Watching Rainbows
Come and Get It
If You've Got Trouble (Not sure you'll like it, but it has great drumming from Ringo.)
Commonwealth (An interesting song, especially John's contributions.)

Then there's the Kinfauns tape, which is also great. It's the guys sitting around playing The White Album cuts for each other.

This list is by no means definitive or correct. Most of these songs probably aren't as great as I remember them. But, I'm sure someone else will give you a better list than mine.

Edit: I totally forgot about "Thank You Guru Dev/Happy Birthday Mike Love."

[guitarfool2002]

There was a book where Billy J. Kramer claimed to have had at one time the home demo that John Lennon did for "Do You Want To Know A Secret", either John had given him the tape or it was for The Dakotas to learn and record the song which they did in 1963. Long story short, I think Billy J. lost John's tape at some point or something, and he claimed Lennon recorded it in his bathroom and you could hear the toilet at the end of the tape.

Maybe that's a bit of a lost Beatles legend, but it would be great to hear John singing that tune if the tape ever turned up.

[Jay]

It's nice to see Watching Rainbows get some love.  Even though it's only a rough jam, it had the potential to turn into a really great track. Can you imagine a beatles single of proper studio version of Watching Rainbows/Child Of Nature? 

[MBE]

Don't load Billy down now
If it helps With The Beatles was a great intro for me. Well Meet The Beatles LP actually but it was the WTB cuts I liked best. I had a different perspective than you though. When I heard it in 1986 I only really liked fifties and early sixties music, and it was interesting to see the way they approached albums more seriously than most bands of the early sixties. I hadn't heard much Beach Boys yet so really it was the first glimpse I had of the evolving sixties attitude about what could make up a good album.

[Jay]

There was a book where Billy J. Kramer claimed to have had at one time the home demo that John Lennon did for "Do You Want To Know A Secret", either John had given him the tape or it was for The Dakotas to learn and record the song which they did in 1963. Long story short, I think Billy J. lost John's tape at some point or something, and he claimed Lennon recorded it in his bathroom and you could hear the toilet at the end of the tape.

Maybe that's a bit of a lost Beatles legend, but it would be great to hear John singing that tune if the tape ever turned up.

I believe that an acetate version with John singing lead was auctioned off in the 1980's or early 1990's. I'm not sure if it was the demo, or an alternate take. I'll have to go through my books and find it.

[guitarfool2002]

I've seen a few places selling "Do You Want..." acetates with handwritten labels, these all seem to be for publishing purposes and a few show a "Dick James" label, which was their publishing firm at that time. I don't know if it's the same thing, most likely a dub copy of the master take but again I don't know.

The one with John recording the song in the bathroom was a tape, I've just seen another version of the story in the Billy J Kramer greatest hits album's liner notes which tells the same story (the other version was in a book from the mid 80's). And apparently that tape was made by John and given to Billy J, so it doesn't seem an acetate was cut.

A question I have is who was the song intended for? I've seen as many sources say John wrote it for Billy J specifically, and others say it was done to give George a standout song to sing on the album (the song did chart top 5 some places in the US on the VeeJay label as a single, but at that time anything labeled "Beatles" was charting.  )

[Youre Under Arrest]

I still prefer each member's solo albums much more. Ram is one of the best albums ever made in my opinion. Any Ram fans?

[Ovi]

I still prefer each member's solo albums much more. Ram is one of the best albums ever made in my opinion. Any Ram fans?

Big, big fan. Love every single track. 'Uncle Albert', 'Dear Boy' and 'Backseat Of My Car' in particular, those knock me out every time.

I consider myself a big McCa fan, but I wouldn't say his solo work is better than his Beatles'. Some albums come darn close though, quality-wise, in my opinion.

[Gertie J.]

no love for john? 

[MBE]

I love Ram, and albums like Walls and Bridges, but the solo stuff isn't near as good most of the time to me. Great stuff, but I like groups much more in general.

[Myk Luhv]

I listen to Yoko Ono more than The Beatles, collectively or solo. Her first two proper solo albums -- Plastic Ono Band and Fly -- are really fucking good. Do you like Can? Or NEU!? Or Faust? Think of them, except with a crazy Japanese woman moaning and screaming instead of a crazy Japanese man.

[alf wiedersehen]

I still prefer each member's solo albums much more. Ram is one of the best albums ever made in my opinion. Any Ram fans?

Yea, Ram is a great, under-appreciated pop album. I think it's probably the best solo Beatle album, although Plastic Ono Band usually takes that spot.

My issue with Plastic Ono Band is that, when looking at the track-listing, none of the songs stand out to me. I think the reason it gets so much praise is because of John's mythic status. Without that, its a decent album, but no masterpiece.

[Heysaboda]

I still prefer each member's solo albums much more. Ram is one of the best albums ever made in my opinion. Any Ram fans?

Big, big fan. Love every single track. 'Uncle Albert', 'Dear Boy' and 'Backseat Of My Car' in particular, those knock me out every time.

I consider myself a big McCa fan, but I wouldn't say his solo work is better than his Beatles'. Some albums come darn close though, quality-wise, in my opinion.

I like Ram a heckuva lot too.

What did you think of the remaster last year?

[Ovi]

What did you think of the remaster last year?

I actually haven't bought that one yet. Is it worth it?

My issue with Plastic Ono Band is that, when looking at the track-listing, none of the songs stand out to me. I think the reason it gets so much praise is because of John's mythic status. Without that, its a decent album, but no masterpiece.

I agree. On paper, Plastic Ono Band looks incredible: "ex-Beatle releases an extremely honest and personal piece of work in which he speaks his mind about everything and everybody without any sugarcoating whatsoever." But in execution, the album just lacks more strong songs, in my opinion.

[Wrightfan]

I still prefer each member's solo albums much more. Ram is one of the best albums ever made in my opinion. Any Ram fans?

LOVE Ram. If I had the money, I'd get the new reissue. Just remembered though it's on Spotify. Listening now 

The Beatles were the first band I got hooked on. I watched Anthology when it came out in 1995. Those were the first albums I bought. After that I got Pepper and Yellow Submarine and became hooked.

Pepper used to be my all time favorite album until I bought Pet Sounds. My favorite Beatles album now is probably White Album.

[Peter Reum]

I think lots of Beach Boys fans in the 60s felt burned by the condescending attitude of some rock writers of the period. I sure did. That said, The UK albums are a big improvement over the Capitol hack jobs. I live Rubber Soul, Revolver, Magical Mystery Tour  and the three archive sets. The Past Masters cds are great. I am not a Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road, Let It Be or earlier albums fan. They are a part of my childhood, but....don't do much for me now.

[MBE]

The sound of John's POB is fantastic, the songs....well you have to really care about John Lennon personally. I like them in the right mood but they are pretty subjective. I mean I relate to some of the concepts but he get's so specific about himself that I find it harder to relate to than other rock albums of a personal nature. Pet Sounds is perfect in this way. It's about Brian but I hear so much of my own feelings in it.

[Jay]

The sound of John's POB is fantastic, the songs....well you have to really care about John Lennon personally. I like them in the right mood but they are pretty subjective. I mean I relate to some of the concepts but he get's so specific about himself that I find it harder to relate to than other rock albums of a personal nature. Pet Sounds is perfect in this way. It's about Brian but I hear so much of my own feelings in it.

It took me quite a while before I realized you were talking about Plastic Ono Band. 

[guitarfool2002]

I rediscovered Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band within the past two years. Prior to that, when I first listened to it in the 80's, I wasn't impressed by much except John's guitar, not as much the notes but the tone and the attitude you hear in those parts. Hearing it with fresh ears, I was very impressed with how progressive the music really is. I still find some of Yoko's vocals challenging and still found myself focusing on the instrumental tracks over the vocals, but overall it was a pleasant rediscovery if not a case of finding something I had either missed originally or just wasn't ready for in my younger years.

I also think that a certain amount of water has gone under the bridge so to speak, and music in general has embraced a lot of sounds and concepts which had been on the fringe or else very underground. We have become more tuned into and accepting of certain noises, sounds, soundscapes, etc which found their way into more popular and universal styles.

So hearing them on Yoko Ono/POB, especially the instrumental tracks, made me think even more how ahead of its time the album and the concept behind the album really was - it foreshadowed many bands' and artists' signature sounds, and it was done well before anything of the sort was accepted by a wide audience.

If it has not already, a more universal re-release of the album is in order. I think many younger bands and artists would hear familiar sounds and vibes on a record that came well before many would assume the sounds became a part of rock music.

In general the John Lennon/POB album is one of my all-time favorites, easily top-10 if not top-5. Again I think it's convenient to label it overrated but anyone saying the songs are weak isn't listening deep enough. In my opinion.

The quality of an album can also be measured in the performances themselves, rather than the quality of the songs. If the quality of the songs were the overriding factor alone, than most would consider Syd's solo albums to be less than stellar because the songs are weak. But you're not being engrossed by the album through judging the quality of the songs, it's more about Syd and that whole mystique, as well as the way he performed them.

And personally I think some of the songs on POB are terrific. Isolation, Love, Hold On, Look At Me, Mother, God...how does anyone not see the quality of those as standalone songs, and that's half the album. A song like God is a vehicle for one of the best vocals Lennon ever recorded. Isolation is a hidden gem. Etc etc etc.

Again perhaps it's fashionable to diminish the quality and influence of the classic albums people embraced like POB, or try to explain the reputation by assigning it to the"Lennon Legend", and I don't buy much of that. I guarantee in 50 years there will be new generations of kids discovering POB and embracing it on their own and continuing to ignore the trends of talking down the classics in favor of the great underdogs like Back To The Egg or whatever the latest flavor of the month may be. In my opinion.