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Author Topic: The Beatles *sigh*  (Read 82949 times)
JohnMill
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« Reply #450 on: September 02, 2013, 03:55:54 AM »

If they were to release "Carnival Of Light" there is no doubt it would sell. The hype alone would drive the fan base, and I'd bet you'd sell tens of thousands of copies to various DJs, electronica, and EDM fans who have heard the rumors about this track. Whether the legend equals the reality wouldn't be a factor here.

That's the problem, I think, with some Beatles release decisions. Overall they've done a good job minding the store and keeping the legacy, but at the same time do they realize they could have a successful release if they didn't focus most on the type of fan who would buy things like the #1s, and Red and Blue hits comps? And as mentioned, is there much more unique material left from the BBC broadcasts short of hearing another 3 versions of From Me To You?  Smiley

I agree.  As I've heard stated many times over the years it seems whenever The Beatles release something for the public's consumption it needs to be "an event".  It either needs to be something of historical musical importance or something that will result in a #1 worldwide chart topper.  I'll get back to sales and chart positions in a moment however one of the problems given what remains in The Beatles' archives is that very little of it on it's own can be looked at as of historical musical significance.  There aren't anymore "Yesterdays" or "Hey Judes" or anything of that nature in the archives that we haven't heard and in fact there are almost no entirely unreleased tracks left in the vault period.  What does remain are endless alternate takes, jams and improvisations and how exactly do you market those as anything spectacular to the public?  One way that has been suggested is that The Beatles' devote a box set to each album with the mono and stereo versions of the album each dominating a disc and two-three discs worth of outtakes as well.  However, The Beatles for whatever reason seem incredibly reluctant to do anything of the sort.  Maybe it's the old "scraping the bottom of the barrel" mentality that they bandied about towards the end of the "Anthology" project?  Perhaps they feel that since they already went down the road of archival releases with "Anthology" that anything resembling that package would now seem old hat?  I honestly don't know.  But the fact that there is nothing in the archives that is extremely noteworthy is perhaps the reason why we haven't seen many archival releases since the mid nineties.  

Another possibility is that The Beatles don't want to open themselves up for criticism the world over by allowing everyone to hear their bum notes and bum takes?  We all know that the "Anthology" series was subject to a fair amount of post production to sanitize a lot of the outtakes for release.  They crossfaded, combined outtakes to make brand new takes, flown in this, took out that and all in the name of bringing the outtakes in line with their official catalog.  Some fans were upset with this while others didn't mind.  Now as you mentioned while it's likely that the release of "Carnival Of Light" (or quite frankly any Beatles archival collection) would sell in acceptable or more than acceptable quantities, again I'm not entirely sure The Beatles are too keen at the moment at releasing packages of archival tracks that would not be on the level of what garnered them the status of "best band in the world/history", a status they no doubt deserve and should enjoy.  

I personally don't think "Tip Of My Tongue" ever existed on tape.  It was one of those tracks that was reported in most Beatles books up until the late eighties and has since been debunked as probably having been performed for George Martin while the multi-track tape wasn't running.  This was quite a common practice by The Beatles where whenever they brought a new song into the studio, usually John or Paul (sometimes both) would debut (and in the early days audition) the song for Martin usually on acoustic guitars who would then give his opinion.  These "auditions" were rarely taped as they weren't proper takes of the song.  Perhaps the most notable instance of these types of auditions took place during the 2-11-63 PPM session where The Beatles recorded most of their debut album in one day.  Allegedly The Beatles ran through a number of songs for Martin that weren't attempted properly that day including "Keep Your Hands Off My Baby", "Your Feet's Too Big" and several other tracks they had been performing as part of their stage repertoire.  Though these were no doubt performed within the confines of EMI Studios, none of them were preserved on tape but alas were remembered by individuals present at the studio that day who years later shared their recollections with various Beatles authors in the mid-seventies who subsequently published these recollections as evidence of unreleased Beatles tracks that remained vaulted.  This is how essentially Beatles fans were led to believe for more than a decade that there was an immense surplus of entirely unreleased Beatles songs collecting dust in EMI's vaults.  Most of these rumors were debunked by Mark Lewisohn's groundbreaking research in the late eighties, but unfortunately many of these same rumors persists to this day.

In regards to Paul McCartney's experimental recordings:  I'm not sure who exactly inspired them but they likely sprung out of the ferment of the home recordings Macca was making with Barry Miles among others at Ringo Starr's abandoned Montague Square flat in 1966.  Macca and Miles were planing on recording an experimental record of their own around this time full of tape loops, sound clips and readings.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of these recordings are actually featured within the body of "Carnival Of Light" with The Beatles adding overdubs of their own on 1-5-67.  John Lennon plied a similar tactic with "Revolution 9" bringing tape loops he recorded at home to EMI Studios and then embellishing the track with all types of overdubs and adornments, not to mention making copious use of EMI's rather large collection of sound effects.  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 03:58:32 AM by JohnMill » Logged

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« Reply #451 on: September 02, 2013, 05:10:09 AM »

Reading this thread, it's always neat to discover a "new" band even if they aren't new. I went through this with Pink Floyd and Syd Barrett in 2011-12.

Same! except I was always into Pink Floyd since I watched the Wall movie when I was around 4. Albeit I was only interested in Dark Side and the Wall.
Only this year, I got back into Pink Floyd strongly again. Only this time, it's the Syd Barrett era! It's almost like discovering a completely different band.
Also of mention is myself starting to get into Rick Wright's early work on albums such as Saucerful!
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« Reply #452 on: September 02, 2013, 04:37:05 PM »

In regards to Paul McCartney's experimental recordings:  I'm not sure who exactly inspired them...
Supposedly McCartney had been listening to some Stockhausen around that time.
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« Reply #453 on: September 02, 2013, 04:41:31 PM »

The Beatles and Stockhausen
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Paul McCartney claims in several statements that he was the first Beatle to discover Stockhausen's music. Sir Paul
has named GESANG DER JUNGLINGE as his favorite Stockhausen work. McCartney probably introduced the late
John Lennon to Stockhausen's music in mid-1966. Lennon was also greatly influenced by Stockhausen. HYMNEN
was Lennon's inspiration for REVOLUTION #9 on the Beatles' White Album.
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« Reply #454 on: September 02, 2013, 11:20:45 PM »

In regards to Paul McCartney's experimental recordings:  I'm not sure who exactly inspired them...
Supposedly McCartney had been listening to some Stockhausen around that time.
Holy hell! That was awesome, weird, and scary all in one. I need to hear more stuff from this guy!  Grin
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« Reply #455 on: September 02, 2013, 11:33:38 PM »

If they were to release "Carnival Of Light" there is no doubt it would sell. The hype alone would drive the fan base, and I'd bet you'd sell tens of thousands of copies to various DJs, electronica, and EDM fans who have heard the rumors about this track. Whether the legend equals the reality wouldn't be a factor here.

That's the problem, I think, with some Beatles release decisions. Overall they've done a good job minding the store and keeping the legacy, but at the same time do they realize they could have a successful release if they didn't focus most on the type of fan who would buy things like the #1s, and Red and Blue hits comps? And as mentioned, is there much more unique material left from the BBC broadcasts short of hearing another 3 versions of From Me To You?  Smiley
I personally don't think "Tip Of My Tongue" ever existed on tape.  It was one of those tracks that was reported in most Beatles books up until the late eighties and has since been debunked as probably having been performed for George Martin while the multi-track tape wasn't running.  This was quite a common practice by The Beatles where whenever they brought a new song into the studio, usually John or Paul (sometimes both) would debut (and in the early days audition) the song for Martin usually on acoustic guitars who would then give his opinion.  These "auditions" were rarely taped as they weren't proper takes of the song.  Perhaps the most notable instance of these types of auditions took place during the 2-11-63 PPM session where The Beatles recorded most of their debut album in one day.  Allegedly The Beatles ran through a number of songs for Martin that weren't attempted properly that day including "Keep Your Hands Off My Baby", "Your Feet's Too Big" and several other tracks they had been performing as part of their stage repertoire.  Though these were no doubt performed within the confines of EMI Studios, none of them were preserved on tape but alas were remembered by individuals present at the studio that day who years later shared their recollections with various Beatles authors in the mid-seventies who subsequently published these recollections as evidence of unreleased Beatles tracks that remained vaulted.  This is how essentially Beatles fans were led to believe for more than a decade that there was an immense surplus of entirely unreleased Beatles songs collecting dust in EMI's vaults.  Most of these rumors were debunked by Mark Lewisohn's groundbreaking research in the late eighties, but unfortunately many of these same rumors persists to this day.
You just reminded me of something. I remember when a documentary about the 25th anniversary of Sgt. Pepper was aired on The Disney Channel back in the early 1990's(when The Disney Channel was awesome, but that's another post and thread entirely  Grin), and there was a scene with George Martin talking about the best version of Strawberry Fields Forever that he ever heard, which was never actually recorded. It was the very first time John ever played the song for him in the studio. It was just John's voice backed with his acoustic guitar. George has always said that he regrets not getting it captured on tape. On a related note, I've always hoped that a recording exists of the "original" slow version of Please Please Me.
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« Reply #456 on: September 03, 2013, 08:27:52 AM »

Paul McCartney: There was only one Stockhausen song I liked actually! We used to get it in all the interviews “Love Stockhausen!”

This is an important point to take note of. It could fill an entire book chapter going through the background and the how's and why's but I'll condense it a bit, and this is my own take on it not claiming to be the full factual history.

I believe the Stockhausen influence is valid, but due to a few elements, the actual influence has been overblown. Look at Paul's quote above.

And there are some interesting Brian Wilson parallels at work here, too.

First, consider who these guys were, namely Brian and Paul. They were not formally educated through what we would consider the standard college experience where we leave school at 18 and head off to higher education, then come out in our early 20's full of new knowledge, friends, and new experiences with all kinds of art and culture we had perhaps never been exposed to in a personal way, short of school trips to the local museum.

Paul in the mid 60's was going with Jane Asher, whose family was not only very wealthy and upper class, but were also very knowledgeable and active in the cultural and artistic circles of the upper class. Paul had not been exposed at this kind of direct level previously, if anything his background from his father was one of work, earn money, don't go in debt, and save where you can. In that mindset you simply didn't splurge on cultural pursuits anything near the degree a family like the Ashers would have done.

Then, you have Paul in this circle of society which was deep in the arts, and the finer things in life, including music, art, literature, etc. So Paul moves in to the Asher house, eventually, and gets his education that way. He took music lessons, actually (a little known footnote) and got more hands-on knowledge of the great composers and classical music. He attended museums to view the classic works of art, and attended galleries and openings for cutting edge and modern artists. It just happened to be an explosive time for that, in the mid 60's. He was exposed to new composers, new forms of music and ways of composing music through these futuristic musicians who were going far beyond the pop of even the standard traditional forms. They were using tape machines, they were using electronic instruments, they were composing atonally rather than focusing on melody and Bach harmony standards.

So Paul soaked it all in, and got his cultural and artistic higher education through these pursuits.

Can you pinpoint one composer like Stockhausen as the catalyst? Can you say that a composition like "For No One" came out of thin air, or was it a byproduct of those classical music lessons and composers Paul had experienced at the Asher house?

Brian Wilson was the same way - when he finally got the hell out of Hawthorne and began meeting new people, he was exposed to different literature, philosophies, experiences, essentially seeing a totally different worldview than what he had lived in Hawthorne or with his circle of friends from those days. It was just like Paul with the Ashers - you have a man in his early 20's basically seeing more of the forest where previously he had known only a few trees.

Now...crucial point...focus in on the celebrity aspect of this. Everything these guys would say would get blown up to greater heights than was ever intended. Paul could name drop Stockhausen in an interview, and that turned into Stockhausen being a major influence on his musical life. Brian could get a one-off photo taken with a guy like Eden Ahbez visiting a Smile session, and that turns into Ahbez being a major influence on Smile. Not quite true...in some cases ridiculously untrue...yet through the celebrity magnifying glass, these little things get blown up.

All musicians and songwriters get influences from everything they hear, they soak it up like a sponge. And naturally some of it comes out in their own works, both consciously and subconsciously. For these two guys, in the mid 60's of all the times you could pick to have your mind that open to experiencing new things, in London and Los Angeles of all the progressive artistic places you could possibly be at the time (!!!), surrounded by people who knew how to navigate these scenes, and perhaps filter out or edit out the bullshit from the art, it was the education of a lifetime.

When Paul name-dropped Stockhausen, remember too it was part of that high-society scene to name drop artists or authors in conversations. Look at Brian's 1966 interviews, he does the same thing with authors, etc. Then the pop press at that time took that one line, whether it be Stockhausen or whatever, and ran it like it was bigger than it actually was.

When, in reality, it was a part of a much bigger tapestry of influences that these young guys like Paul and Brian were being exposed to and being consumed by in their respective new social and cultural circles.

If Paul says there was only one Stockhausen song he liked, I think that's much closer to reality than assuming Paul would be listening to Stockhausen regularly.

That's not saying there was not an influence - because there was obviously - but not quite what the "Beatle Legend" machine would have cranked out.

And leading to another topic...it makes Paul's negative reaction to Revolution #9 all the more mysterious from an artistic perspective considering the legend suggests it was Paul who brought in all of the electronic, musique concrete, and tape manipulation based influences into the group in 1965-66. The guy who brought in all this stuff in the first place is the strong voice against releasing it when a bandmate who he shared this stuff with wants to put it out. Sounds more personal than artistic. Food for thought.
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« Reply #457 on: September 03, 2013, 12:45:15 PM »

^ Good points fool, never would have thought of the Jane Asher influence that way myself!
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« Reply #458 on: September 03, 2013, 05:38:32 PM »

If they were to release "Carnival Of Light" there is no doubt it would sell. The hype alone would drive the fan base, and I'd bet you'd sell tens of thousands of copies to various DJs, electronica, and EDM fans who have heard the rumors about this track. Whether the legend equals the reality wouldn't be a factor here.

That's the problem, I think, with some Beatles release decisions. Overall they've done a good job minding the store and keeping the legacy, but at the same time do they realize they could have a successful release if they didn't focus most on the type of fan who would buy things like the #1s, and Red and Blue hits comps? And as mentioned, is there much more unique material left from the BBC broadcasts short of hearing another 3 versions of From Me To You?  Smiley
I personally don't think "Tip Of My Tongue" ever existed on tape.  It was one of those tracks that was reported in most Beatles books up until the late eighties and has since been debunked as probably having been performed for George Martin while the multi-track tape wasn't running.  This was quite a common practice by The Beatles where whenever they brought a new song into the studio, usually John or Paul (sometimes both) would debut (and in the early days audition) the song for Martin usually on acoustic guitars who would then give his opinion.  These "auditions" were rarely taped as they weren't proper takes of the song.  Perhaps the most notable instance of these types of auditions took place during the 2-11-63 PPM session where The Beatles recorded most of their debut album in one day.  Allegedly The Beatles ran through a number of songs for Martin that weren't attempted properly that day including "Keep Your Hands Off My Baby", "Your Feet's Too Big" and several other tracks they had been performing as part of their stage repertoire.  Though these were no doubt performed within the confines of EMI Studios, none of them were preserved on tape but alas were remembered by individuals present at the studio that day who years later shared their recollections with various Beatles authors in the mid-seventies who subsequently published these recollections as evidence of unreleased Beatles tracks that remained vaulted.  This is how essentially Beatles fans were led to believe for more than a decade that there was an immense surplus of entirely unreleased Beatles songs collecting dust in EMI's vaults.  Most of these rumors were debunked by Mark Lewisohn's groundbreaking research in the late eighties, but unfortunately many of these same rumors persists to this day.
You just reminded me of something. I remember when a documentary about the 25th anniversary of Sgt. Pepper was aired on The Disney Channel back in the early 1990's(when The Disney Channel was awesome, but that's another post and thread entirely  Grin), and there was a scene with George Martin talking about the best version of Strawberry Fields Forever that he ever heard, which was never actually recorded. It was the very first time John ever played the song for him in the studio. It was just John's voice backed with his acoustic guitar. George has always said that he regrets not getting it captured on tape.

Well there was a solo acoustic version of "Strawberry Fields Forever" included within the "Love" project as I recall.  It wasn't a complete take of the song but merely John Lennon running through a verse of the song on acoustic guitar.  From memory it was featured in much higher fidelity than any of the known Lennon acoustic demos of "Strawberry Fields Forever" that have been making the rounds for years now.  Also I don't believe (although I could be wrong) that EMI had access to any of John Lennon's private archives for the "Love" project which would lead me to believe this solo acoustic "take" was recorded at EMI at some stage.  From memory there is also some rudimentary percussion on this version (possibly either Macca or Ringo on bongos?) which again would not have been instrumentation available to Lennon anywhere other than EMI Studios.

What is important to remember at this stage is that The Beatles actually did record a fair amount of their rehearsals at EMI Studios before laying down proper takes of the song(s) in question.  While some Beatles fans assume that the group's rehearsals were never taped, the unfortunate reality of the situation is that back in the sixties EMI much like many of their contemporaries placed a high value on preserving tape, so once The Beatles were ready to lay down proper takes of a song, the tape that contained all the rehearsals that were recorded was subsequently wound back and reused to capture the proper takes, thereby erasing most of the rehearsals.  I say most because on quite a number of occasions the number of proper takes of a given song attempted by The Beatles did not fill up an entire multi-track tape and therefore there were still several minutes of rehearsals left undisturbed at the end of the multi-track tape.  Such was the case for some of the sessions for "Strawberry Fields Forever" so it's possible that the acoustic rendition heard as part of the "Love" project comes from the end of one of these multi-tracks.  
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« Reply #459 on: September 03, 2013, 05:43:32 PM »

The Love version of SSF must include portions from Lennon's home archive.

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« Reply #460 on: September 03, 2013, 05:51:27 PM »

The Love version of SSF most certainly does include portions from Lennon's home archive.

As I mentioned I wasn't sure whether or not EMI had access to Lennon's private archive for the "Love" project.  I do know that they obviously did gain access to his "Strawberry Fields Forever" demos for the "Anthology" project and may have retained them for use in "Love".  From memory though, the acoustic rendering of SFF heard in "Love" did not resemble from an instrumentation standpoint any of the home recordings of SFF that have been floating around.  It's possible, perhaps even probable that EMI used portions of Lennon's SFF demo tapes that nobody else has heard in the "Love" project but without some further information as to just exactly was was excerpted for "Love", it would be impossible for me to speculate any further on this matter.
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« Reply #461 on: September 03, 2013, 06:03:43 PM »

I hate to attempt to post with any feeling of  absolution so I edited my post.  LOL

But in his demos he does experiment with several different kinds of strumming patterns. One of which is that chunk-a-chunk strumming pattern that's in the love recording.
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« Reply #462 on: September 03, 2013, 10:09:02 PM »

Speaking of different strumming patterns, it's interesting to note that on the earliest SFF demos, John plays in a style similar to take 1, but on later demos he plays in a picking style similar to later takes. One of these later takes can be heard partially on the released version of the song.
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« Reply #463 on: September 04, 2013, 10:03:53 PM »

Interesting for music nerds.

A flood of flat-sevenths
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An overload of chords.

 Now we have grown used to them, but at the time of their release the songs on Revolver evoked many startled comments. For a moment even McCartney himself seemed overcome with doubts:

"... I was in Germany on tour just before Revolver came out. I started listening to the album and I got really down because I thought the whole thing was out of tune. Everyone had to reassure me that it was all okay" (Garbarini, 1980).

So even to McCartney the songs of the album, or at least some of them, seemed out of key. It was not the first time this remark was made in respect to the Beatles' songs. Other people had said the same thing before of the group's early songs. From the start of their career the Beatles filled their songs with daring harmonic experiments and that to some people did made their songs go wrong. To Classical trained critics, the songs sounded harsh and sometimes even downright out of key. Blues-oriented critics complained that the Beatles did not apply the right blue notes. Others, however, liked the songs for that very same reason. To their ears the compositions of the Beatles, though harmonically adventurous, were also remarkably melodious.

In their own way both the critical and the affirmative responses to the Beatles' songs were right. The musical style of the Beatles was so new and unusual, that one had to get used to it. To enjoy their songs one's ears first had to learn the musical grammar and to adapt to the underlying musical structure of the harmonies. What was so special about the Beatles' harmonies? The sheer number of chords the Beatles performed in their compositions, offers a first clue for an answer to that question. Compared with the standards of earlier popular music, the Beatles' songs show far too many chords. Most simple harmonies are built upon the three basic chords: the tonic (I), the subtonic (IV) and the dominant (V).
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« Reply #464 on: September 08, 2013, 12:55:53 AM »

I just thought I'd revive this thread to ask guitarfool2002 a question(or anybody else that might be able to help). I'm wondering what kind of guitar George Harrison is playing in the picture that goes along with this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T6tUzGGfeo&hd=1
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« Reply #465 on: September 08, 2013, 07:35:42 AM »

Diaphanous, it looks like that guitar could be a Hofner Club 40 model 244.

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« Reply #466 on: September 09, 2013, 02:37:02 PM »

Thanks to those who recommended the Emerick book. I'm almost finished and have enjoyed it for the most part. A couple of mild complaints.... 1) GE seems to have a major slant towards McCartney, and 2) he REALLY comes across as dismissive of Harrison.

 Kind of funny to read the slagging off of Chris Thomas in this nook when I just read a Pink Floyd book that praises him.
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« Reply #467 on: September 09, 2013, 03:11:52 PM »

Thanks to those who recommended the Emerick book. I'm almost finished and have enjoyed it for the most part. A couple of mild complaints.... 1) GE seems to have a major slant towards McCartney, and 2) he REALLY comes across as dismissive of Harrison.

 Kind of funny to read the slagging off of Chris Thomas in this nook when I just read a Pink Floyd book that praises him.
Phew, glad you liked it - I wasn't sure if it would have the level of tech detail you required; as I mentioned, a studio diary may have driven a technical approach.

Yeah, the man-love for Macca tended towards over-the-top and I wonder how much this and the George political aspects were "drawn out" by the co-writer (although it's Geoff's gig@ the end o' the day)

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« Reply #468 on: September 09, 2013, 10:52:38 PM »

Diaphanous, it looks like that guitar could be a Hofner Club 40 model 244.


It looks like you may be right. Thanks!  Grin
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« Reply #469 on: September 10, 2013, 08:04:55 AM »

I haven't been able to post in the past 5 days...wanted to catch up on that mystery Beatles/Harrison guitar.

I'd say that is *not* a Hofner. Harrison did have a single-pickup "Club 40" model, and that exact guitar became subject of a bit of a controversial research debate later on. That could fill a book chapter too...more later.

The "Club 40" was single-pickup, and had a distinctive round control panel where the knobs were placed. John Lennon had a similar Hofner solidbody which can be seen prominently in several famous pre-stardom Liverpool and Hamburg photos, including the one of John, Paul, and Cynthia at the Casbah club. Compare the visual features and you'll notice the differences.

***One major difference to note in the Beatles stage photo and the Hofner photo shown above...the features don't match at all. The pickguard on the Hofner is like a brown tortoiseshell material, and in the style of a Gibson Les Paul pickguard. The guitar George is playing on stage has a black pickguard which goes under the strings, like most Fender and Fender-style cheaper knockoffs from that time. Note the knobs are different, and the tuners appear to be white plastic.

Bottom line - The question I have is what is the history of that photo in question? When/where was that show? And is it even an authentic Beatles concert photo? I have my doubts at this point, but it's too damned blurry to confirm or deny those doubts.

Remember the Beatles did package tours at that time, if the photo is in fact even *authentic*. They'd be on a concert bill with perhaps 3-5 other bands...maybe the guitar was not even George's own guitar, but rather something he borrowed from another band's guitarist?

Keep in mind the guitars of George Harrison have all been pretty well documented and their histories have been verified for almost every instrument including where it is today or who owns it. We know which ones George played since the 50's, make and model. And though it's a blurred photo, whatever he is playing doesn't match what we know he owned and toured with in those years.

Back to the Hofner Club 40 - again, I don't think that's what is in the photo. But to sum up the fascinating controversy behind that exact guitar in the photo with the autographs:

George originally gave that Liverpool-era guitar to a member of the Swingin Blue Jeans. Many are sure that is George's original guitar from his teen years. Later, it came up as a prize in a contest where the winner would win an autographed Beatle guitar. Hence, the autographs. The winner had that guitar in a bank vault or something in Germany.

But the autographs were not by the actual Beatles, but rather ghost signatures done by Neil Aspinall, who was apparently practiced at signing the Beatles' names and having them look authentic, as the actual band didn't have the time to accommodate all the requests and contests after 1963-64. It was standard practice to have a ghost signer, so many "authentic" signatures are fake or with letters, done with an "auto-pen".

Sum up: The guitar is most likely George's original Hofner solidbody, the autographs are Neil Aspinall's ghost signatures of the band, in the opinions of the experts.

And since he gave his original away to the dude from Swingin Blue Jeans, George for years did not own a Hofner solidbody. Later he must have felt nostalgic and bought one on the vintage collectors' market for his collection, and as he described it the case was a relic that had a setlist full of the old standards which a working band (like his own) would have played in the 50's or 60's.

So George did get a replacement Hofner, eventually, but his original with the supposedly fake signatures sits in a vault.

And I'd be 99% sure it's not that model Hofner he's shown playing in that stage photo, again if that photo itself is real. And if it is, the guitar could have been owned by someone else on that same concert bill.
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« Reply #470 on: September 10, 2013, 09:14:37 PM »

To be honest, I thought that the autographs on that guitar were photoshoped. Something about it just didn't look right to me.
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« Reply #471 on: September 12, 2013, 09:49:11 AM »

Some new info, a tracklist, and a link for the forthcoming BBC release:

Ten of On Air’s songs were never recorded by the group for EMI in the 1960s, including two making their debuts with the new release: The Beatles’ direct-to-air performance of Chuck Berry’s “I’m Talking About You” and a rocking cover of the standard “Beautiful Dreamer.” On Air also includes different versions of six rarities heard on the 1994 BBC collection: Little Richard’s “Lucille,” Chuck Berry’s “Memphis, Tennessee,” Chan Romero’s “The Hippy Hippy Shake,” Ray Charles’ “I Got A Woman,” and two songs they learned from records by Carl Perkins, “Glad All Over” and “Sure To Fall.”
The Beatles’ tribute to the BBC’s most important pop show of the early ’60s – “Happy Birthday, Dear Saturday Club” – is another surprise. As John Lennon recalled in 1980, “We did a lot of tracks that were never on record for Saturday Club – they were well recorded, too.” Paul remembers, “We’d been raised on the BBC radio programs. One of the big things in our week was Saturday Club – this great show was playing the kind of music we loved, so that was something we really aspired to.”

The Beatles: On Air – Live at the BBC Volume 2
CD ONE
1. And Here We Are Again (Speech)
2. WORDS OF LOVE
3. How About It, Gorgeous? (Speech)
4. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW A SECRET
5. LUCILLE
6. Hey, Paul… (Speech)
7. ANNA (GO TO HIM)
8. Hello! (Speech)
9. PLEASE PLEASE ME
10. MISERY
11. I’M TALKING ABOUT YOU
12. A Real Treat (Speech)
13. BOYS
14. Absolutely Fab (Speech)
15. CHAINS
16. ASK ME WHY
17. TILL THERE WAS YOU
18. LEND ME YOUR COMB
19. Lower 5E (Speech)
20. THE HIPPY HIPPY SHAKE
21. ROLL OVER BEETHOVEN
22. THERE’S A PLACE
23. Bumper Bundle (Speech)
24. P.S. I LOVE YOU
25. PLEASE MISTER POSTMAN
26. BEAUTIFUL DREAMER
27. DEVIL IN HER HEART
28. The 49 Weeks (Speech)
29. SURE TO FALL (IN LOVE WITH YOU)
30. Never Mind, Eh? (Speech)
31. TWIST AND SHOUT
32. Bye, Bye (speech)
33. John - Pop Profile (Speech)
34. George - Pop Profile (Speech)
CD TWO
1. I SAW HER STANDING THERE
2. GLAD ALL OVER
3. Lift Lid Again (Speech)
4. I’LL GET YOU
5. SHE LOVES YOU
6. MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE
7. HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR SATURDAY CLUB
8. Now Hush, Hush (Speech)
9. FROM ME TO YOU
10. MONEY (THAT’S WHAT I WANT)
11. I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND
12. Brian Bathtubes (Speech)
13. THIS BOY
14. If I Wasn’t In America (Speech)
15. I GOT A WOMAN
16. LONG TALL SALLY
17. IF I FELL
18. A Hard Job Writing Them (Speech)
19. AND I LOVE HER
20. Oh, Can’t We? Yes We Can (Speech)
21. YOU CAN’T DO THAT
22. HONEY DON’T
23. I’LL FOLLOW THE SUN
24. Green With Black Shutters (Speech)
25. KANSAS CITY/HEY-HEY-HEY-HEY!
26. That’s What We’re Here For (Speech)
27. I FEEL FINE (STUDIO OUTTAKE)
28. Paul - Pop Profile (Speech)
29. Ringo - Pop Profile (Speech)



http://thebeatles.com/news/air-live-bbc-vol2-be-released
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« Reply #472 on: September 12, 2013, 10:04:34 AM »

Cool. I really enjoyed the first BBC sessions release.
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« Reply #473 on: September 12, 2013, 09:34:02 PM »

Just for the record, I called Beautiful Dreamer.  Grin I've never understood why it's always referred to as a standard though. Other than the words "Beautiful Dreamer, wake unto me" it's a totally rewritten rock and roll love song, typical of the era. I'm disappointed that it looks like no Pete Best recordings are included. I'm curios about the studio outtake of I Feel Fine. I wonder if it'll be an early version done in the original key?
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« Reply #474 on: September 13, 2013, 03:57:50 AM »

Some new info, a tracklist, and a link for the forthcoming BBC release:

Ten of On Air’s songs were never recorded by the group for EMI in the 1960s, including two making their debuts with the new release: The Beatles’ direct-to-air performance of Chuck Berry’s “I’m Talking About You” and a rocking cover of the standard “Beautiful Dreamer.” On Air also includes different versions of six rarities heard on the 1994 BBC collection: Little Richard’s “Lucille,” Chuck Berry’s “Memphis, Tennessee,” Chan Romero’s “The Hippy Hippy Shake,” Ray Charles’ “I Got A Woman,” and two songs they learned from records by Carl Perkins, “Glad All Over” and “Sure To Fall.”
The Beatles’ tribute to the BBC’s most important pop show of the early ’60s – “Happy Birthday, Dear Saturday Club” – is another surprise. As John Lennon recalled in 1980, “We did a lot of tracks that were never on record for Saturday Club – they were well recorded, too.” Paul remembers, “We’d been raised on the BBC radio programs. One of the big things in our week was Saturday Club – this great show was playing the kind of music we loved, so that was something we really aspired to.”

The Beatles: On Air – Live at the BBC Volume 2
CD ONE
1. And Here We Are Again (Speech)
2. WORDS OF LOVE
3. How About It, Gorgeous? (Speech)
4. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW A SECRET
5. LUCILLE
6. Hey, Paul… (Speech)
7. ANNA (GO TO HIM)
8. Hello! (Speech)
9. PLEASE PLEASE ME
10. MISERY
11. I’M TALKING ABOUT YOU
12. A Real Treat (Speech)
13. BOYS
14. Absolutely Fab (Speech)
15. CHAINS
16. ASK ME WHY
17. TILL THERE WAS YOU
18. LEND ME YOUR COMB
19. Lower 5E (Speech)
20. THE HIPPY HIPPY SHAKE
21. ROLL OVER BEETHOVEN
22. THERE’S A PLACE
23. Bumper Bundle (Speech)
24. P.S. I LOVE YOU
25. PLEASE MISTER POSTMAN
26. BEAUTIFUL DREAMER
27. DEVIL IN HER HEART
28. The 49 Weeks (Speech)
29. SURE TO FALL (IN LOVE WITH YOU)
30. Never Mind, Eh? (Speech)
31. TWIST AND SHOUT
32. Bye, Bye (speech)
33. John - Pop Profile (Speech)
34. George - Pop Profile (Speech)
CD TWO
1. I SAW HER STANDING THERE
2. GLAD ALL OVER
3. Lift Lid Again (Speech)
4. I’LL GET YOU
5. SHE LOVES YOU
6. MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE
7. HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR SATURDAY CLUB
8. Now Hush, Hush (Speech)
9. FROM ME TO YOU
10. MONEY (THAT’S WHAT I WANT)
11. I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND
12. Brian Bathtubes (Speech)
13. THIS BOY
14. If I Wasn’t In America (Speech)
15. I GOT A WOMAN
16. LONG TALL SALLY
17. IF I FELL
18. A Hard Job Writing Them (Speech)
19. AND I LOVE HER
20. Oh, Can’t We? Yes We Can (Speech)
21. YOU CAN’T DO THAT
22. HONEY DON’T
23. I’LL FOLLOW THE SUN
24. Green With Black Shutters (Speech)
25. KANSAS CITY/HEY-HEY-HEY-HEY!
26. That’s What We’re Here For (Speech)
27. I FEEL FINE (STUDIO OUTTAKE)
28. Paul - Pop Profile (Speech)
29. Ringo - Pop Profile (Speech)



http://thebeatles.com/news/air-live-bbc-vol2-be-released

Cool!  I'm glad to see that some new archival product will be getting out there to the fans.  I wonder if the version of "Roll Over Beethoven" is the fast and powerful version which differs greatly from the version on "With The Beatles"? 

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