The Beatles *sigh*

[guitarfool2002]

The companion for the Emerick, Lewisohn, and Ryan/Kehew books, which are very much studio-centric in their focus, is the Andy Aledort "Beatles Gear" book. I cannot recommend this enough for those interested in what instruments and equipment was used by the Beatles through their career.

It set the bar so high for any similar projects, going from their earliest guitars and amps seen in the classic Liverpool and Hamburg photos to exhaustive research into how they came to own and purchase certain instruments we see in all the photos. Who else tracks down exact production logs from companies like Rickenbacker and Epiphone, and digs up sales receipts for this stuff? A brilliant reference.

The post-Beatles chapter on how a New York guitar repairman was hired to get John's original Hamburg model Rickenbacker 325 into original playing shape after year's of John's ham-fisted modifications and poor-quality paint jobs is compelling, it reads like a good novel or something with a terrific though ultimately bittersweet outcome.

Keep in mind that those ultimate classic guitars we associate with the Beatles are ones that each of them held onto and whose families or estates still have possession of, with few specific exceptions like McCartney's first and original Hofner violin bass which was stolen and never recovered, or one of George's Gretsch guitars which fell off the back of a car and was run over during a tour in the 60's.

As a wanna-be guitar collector with more passion than money to truly participate in the hobby (  ) , I can safely say that if any of those iconic guitars like the Lennon Rickenbacker ever came up for sale, and I doubt they ever would, they'd be the most expensive instruments ever sold. The assorted "Beatle guitars" that have been offered for sale were marginal at best in the history of the band, in some cases they were never used on any recordings or live appearances.

[guitarfool2002]

Just a bit of a thread detour on a personal experience with the "Mojo" surrounding certain instruments associated with the Beatles.

Part 1, the Hofner "violin" bass as played by McCartney. Hell, let's just say it, McCartney made it an icon among basses.

This is a 60's photo showing the two variations McCartney played. The one on the left is his model dating to around 1961, note the pickups being closer to one another and the different "Hofner" name on the headstock. He can be seen playing this bass later in the Revolution promo film, as well as briefly in some Get Back era photos shortly before the bass itself disappeared. It has so far not been recovered, one of the great lost pieces of rock history. His newer Hofner, again note the changes in the pickups and the headstock/name, is on the right. This is the type he still plays in concert today.




When I was in college, there was a music shop just across the street from where I had some classes. During breaks, I'd usually go into the shop to see what they had gotten in, as they had a rotating stock of cool vintage guitars and basses coming in weekly. This was around 1993.

So I walk in one day on a break, and hanging on the back wall was an original Hofner "Beatle Bass", from the mid-60's, and with a price tag of around $1,600 US, which at that time in the early 90's was of course high but not out of line with the demand. Since they knew me from hanging at the shop, and probably knew I didn't have the funds to purchase the bass but was a big Beatles fan, they let me take it down, plug it in, and give it a test drive. It was the first original Beatle Bass I had ever been able to play.

I take it off the hook, and immediately it felt lighter than I'd imagined. It was hollow, and honestly it felt very cheap, like the wood construction was cheaper wood than I expected. Kind of like a JC Penney guitar versus a Fender, right? And the hardware and neck and everything else felt somewhat cheap as well, given the iconic stature of this exact model bass.

Oh well, I plugged it in to some random bass amp they had, fiddled with the controls a bit until I could dial in a standard sound, and started to run a few lines of "I Saw Her Standing There", in E of course. 

And it was only when I played it that it hit me, as I was able to get THAT SOUND which we tone freaks all strive for. Nothing more than the Beatle Bass plugged into a random amp, and there was that specific McCartney bass thump that I had been hearing for years. Kind of dull, very thumpy, not at all like a Fender or any of those abominations of electric bass that had been developed since the 60's...it just oozed character and vibe.

And honestly if it were not for the Beatle connection, I doubt this model bass would have been unique or sought after in any way, as it felt like any number of department store lower-tier 60's instruments that you could score at pawn shops for less than a hundred dollars. Yet McCartney made the sound of this bass his own, he *owned it*, and it gave those Beatles records something very unique and different.

And it may seem overblown to go into such detail, but something about getting that much closer to the music I grew up obsessing over that day in a guitar shop was a terrific experience, I guess I understood some of what went into the music by the simple act of plugging in that unlikely Hofner bass which Paul became forever attached to in the history of the band.

Hofner now makes reissues, for obvious reasons, which are a bit overpriced (for obvious reasons), but anyone who plays guitar or bass should try to seek out one of the 60's Hofners and give it a test drive. A lot of things make more sense after actually playing one. 

[Summer_Days]

My favorite Beatles book has always been A Day in the Life: The Music and Artistry of the Beatles by Mark Hertsgaard, published in 1995 around the time of the Anthology series. A great book that delves into each album, each song and focuses more on the music of The Beatles, instead of the personal lives. This was my Beatle bible just when I was getting deep into the band about 14 years ago.

[Jay]

That story of Paul's missing bass is interesting. I thought that he used only one Hofner as his "main" bass. I have a tour program from Paul's 1989-1990 world tour, and there is a then current picture of a Hofner bass with the original Candlestick Park 1966 set list taped on the back of it. From everything I've read and heard, whenever Paul plays a Hofner in concert, it's that very same one.

[guitarfool2002]

That story of Paul's missing bass is interesting. I thought that he used only one Hofner as his "main" bass. I have a tour program from Paul's 1989-1990 world tour, and there is a then current picture of a Hofner bass with the original Candlestick Park 1966 set list taped on the back of it. From everything I've read and heard, whenever Paul plays a Hofner in concert, it's that very same one.

I have that same tour program, I saw him on that tour in Philly, at the old Veterans Stadium. That original Hofner bass on that tour was a highlight for me, as I had read he was going to get it set up to be worthy for the road.

The story I heard about that, how Paul came to pull that bass out of storage basically, was that Elvis Costello had asked Paul to work on the song "Veronica" with him. And if my memory is correct, Elvis asked Paul to use his "Beatles Bass" on the session, as Elvis is quite the obsessive fan himself. So Paul did, and I believe he even added a Rubber Soul-like descending bass hook on Veronica as a bit of a wink and a nod.

Again, that's from memory! 

Look closely at any photos of Paul holding a Hofner, and focus in specifically on the way the pickup magnets are situated. The *original* Hofner he played before becoming famous has the pickups very close to each other. Watch the "Revolution" promo, it's that same bass. There is another photo of John and Paul clowning around playing the basses like violins, you'll see them both as in the photo above.

This earlier Hofner, which also is in nearly every photo with Pete Best, is the great "Lost" McCartney bass.

The other one came very soon after Hofner slightly changed their designs, and this bass is the one with the 1966 setlist taped to the side, is also the one seen more often in TV and video appearances, and is exactly the same model I had a chance to play in that guitar shop 20 years ago.

I think after the Hamburg and Liverpool days, McCartney for some reason may have preferred the later-edition Hofner bass which is what he still plays on tour today.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Fascinating stuff, guitarfool! Thanks so much for all this great info. I wonder...does anybody have any theories as to the disappearance of the bass? Does it have anything to do with Paul being dead? 

[Jay]

Thanks for that info guitarfool2002. For some strange reason I was under the impression that Paul only played one Hofner throughout his whole career. Kind of a silly thought now that I think about it.  What I'd really like to know is, what ever happened to that beautiful red Rickenbacker bass Paul used in the I Am The Walrus "performance" sequence in Magical Mystery Tour?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ordered the Emerick book!

I was very wrong about Sgt Pepper. Listened to it and Magical Mystery Tour last night.  Speaking of which Is read that Flying is considered to be a weak song but I thought it was a tight little jam myself.

[Dudd]

You ought to get the boxset that came out last year. It's fab.

[alf wiedersehen]

You ought to get the boxset that came out last year. It's fab.

The mono box set is great. It's a sleek slip case with mini LP replicas, plastic jackets, and a booklet about the differences between the mono and stereo mixes.
The stereo box set is just your average long box with the digipak reissues.

[Amazing Larry]

The mono box has the nicest packaging of any box set I have.

[JohnMill]

The mono box has the nicest packaging of any box set I have.

Yeah they really went the extra mile with it and effectively copied by Dylan on his mono recordings box.  Both are highly recommended.

[alf wiedersehen]

The mono box has the nicest packaging of any box set I have.

Yeah they really went the extra mile with it and effectively copied by Dylan on his mono recordings box.  Both are highly recommended.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Both are great packages, despite the fact it's a bit hard to take out the middle albums like Bringing It All Back Home and Highway 61 Revisited. I love that they texturized The Times They Are A-Changin'.

[Jay]

You ought to get the boxset that came out last year. It's fab.

The mono box set is great. It's a sleek slip case with mini LP replicas, plastic jackets, and a booklet about the differences between the mono and stereo mixes.
The stereo box set is just your average long box with the digipak reissues.

The stereo set has each cd in a mini LP replica too, with a booklet in every one. It also comes with a "making of" short film on dvd. It also has the Past Masters set, although it's "redone" with both albums on one cd.

[alf wiedersehen]

You ought to get the boxset that came out last year. It's fab.

The mono box set is great. It's a sleek slip case with mini LP replicas, plastic jackets, and a booklet about the differences between the mono and stereo mixes.
The stereo box set is just your average long box with the digipak reissues.

The stereo set has each cd in a mini LP replica too, with a booklet in every one. It also comes with a "making of" short film on dvd. It also has the Past Masters set, although it's "redone" with both albums on one cd.

Oh, I didn't know they re-created the LP's for the stereo box set.
The booklets and short films also come with the regular, non-box stereo releases. And the non-box Past Masters comes in two CDs.

[Jay]

I recently went on e-bay looking for prices on the mono set, and I was confused to see that every copy I found had the package in a square box that wasn't anything like the "long box" that the stereo cd's were packaged in. I thought the "long box" was for both the stereo AND mono set? I don't want to purchase the mono set only to find out that I got ripped off and didn't get the full package that it's supposed to come in.

[alf wiedersehen]

I recently went on e-bay looking for prices on the mono set, and I was confused to see that every copy I found had the package in a square box that wasn't anything like the "long box" that the stereo cd's were packaged in. I thought the "long box" was for both the stereo AND mono set? I don't want to purchase the mono set only to find out that I got ripped off and didn't get the full package that it's supposed to come in.

It's a square box, so you're not getting ripped off on that front.
There was supposedly some replica box sets being made by a Chinese company, though. So be careful who you buy from.

Here's someone's comments:

FIRST! Watch out for counterfeits. They are all over the place. The fakes have flexible boxes rather than firm, sturdy boxes. The artwork is fuzzy and not as sharp as originals. The CDs are lighter to hold (just a bit) than the originals This is especially true on many Japanese issues whch were actually made in China. In one incident, some of the CDs were not able to play music on a standard USA CD player. So, be careful!

Here's a discussion on them: http://tinyurl.com/lc5p6hz

[Amazing Larry]

You ought to get the boxset that came out last year. It's fab.

The mono box set is great. It's a sleek slip case with mini LP replicas, plastic jackets, and a booklet about the differences between the mono and stereo mixes.
The stereo box set is just your average long box with the digipak reissues.

The stereo set has each cd in a mini LP replica too, with a booklet in every one. It also comes with a "making of" short film on dvd. It also has the Past Masters set, although it's "redone" with both albums on one cd.

I think you're confusing digipaks with mini LPs.

[Jay]

The fact that I have to ask what the difference is tells me that you're probably right. 

[guitarfool2002]

I have not seen anything to suggest what happened to McCartney's original Hofner bass, other than it was stolen. A very, very odd footnote in the Beatles' story. I think basically every other instrument they've owned or were seen playing after becoming famous has been accounted for except that one. In most cases they still own or their estates own the really famous ones.

Good and bad news on McCartney's famous Rickenbacker bass. Updates on these things come and go all the time, but as far as I can tell that bass is still owned by McCartney - the good news. The bad news is that the paint job(s) it had in the 60's are long gone, and if anything the bass is still natural finish, as it has been since the 70's.

Some history: Rickenbacker's three stock finishes which were most common were Mapleglo (natural), Jetglo (blue), and Fireglo (red sunburst). Lennon's original 325 was Mapleglo natural, then he painted it several times, and later got a Jetglo blue 325. Harrison's 12-strings were Fireglo, as were McCartney's bass.

McCartney was offered a chance to buy a right-handed bass in '64, but declined. Then Rickenbacker crafted a left-handed version for him, offered it as a gift instead, and he apparently took it when the Beatles were in Los Angeles to play the Hollywood Bowl. But he didn't use it much until he was going for a heavier, "American" bass sound on Paperback Writer, around that time in history.

Sometime around '67, McCartney and the others had been seeing a variety of bands come to clubs like the Bag O' Nails, and they'd have guitars and basses painted with all kinds of exotic and psychedelic designs. So he did that to his Rickenbacker bass, Lennon did that with his Gibson J-160E acoustic/electric, and most famously George did it to his Sonic Blue Stratocaster which he named "Rocky".

Then soon after, in a total shift, one of them had heard that having too much paint and finish on a guitar or bass impedes the natural tone and sound of the wood, and that stripping it down to bare wood and applying a very thin, clear-coat sealer on top would be better. Thus, you see Lennon in later '68 with a natural-finish Epiphone Casino, and soon a natural-finish Gibson J-160E as well. And Paul likewise had both the psychedelic paint he added as well as Rickenbacker's original red Fireglo factory finish stripped off and the bass became natural.

*This* is the Rickenbacker bass you'd see him with on stage throughout the 1970's, and on all his big tours. At one point he put a "Red Rose Speedway" logo sticker on the body of his bass, and also had some of the more wild curves and wood cuts on that bass sanded or shaved down, or rounded off a bit more than was originally from the factory. But that is the same 1964 lefty model he got as a gift back in '64.

For guitar fans and collectors, the 70's saw a lot of very valuable and really nice guitars and basses destroyed by people wanting to sand off the original finishes to make them "natural". I never bought into the tonal reasons for doing this, a lot of people think it's crap but others say it does change the tone, and considering stripping off original Fender custom color finishes would in some cases cut the value in half, not to mention Fender had some custom colors which they simply cannot replicate...a lot of really nice instruments were ruined in favor of sanding them down to bare wood finishes.

To this day I never understood that, but such were the 1970's.

The best reason I've heard for why McCartney does not play the Rickenbacker as he does his old Hofner is a simple one. The Rickenbacker is a heavy bass, in comparison to the lightweight and hollow-bodied Hofner. McCartney is no longer a young man, I doubt his back would handle strapping on a Rickenbacker bass for too long during a show.  

[guitarfool2002]

Here are two photos that aren't near as common, one showing a '65 show where it was one of the very few live shows Lennon ever played with his Sonic Blue Stratocaster, and with McCartney playing the usual later Hofner bass:



Lennon for that tour and anything afterward would more often play the Epiphone Casino on stage.

And this is a somewhat rarely seen backstage shot showing Paul holding the left-handed Fireglo finish Rickenbacker bass which we were discussing. He took it along on tour as a backup instrument, as far as most people know there are no stage photos of him playing that bass from this time. It would become his main studio bass, though, after Paperback Writer. Notice he is wearing the Hofner bass, and that George is tuning his Gibson SG while his Casino sits on a chair. Lennon is wearing his Casino, and holding his Gibson J-160E which still has the original finish:

[Lonely Summer]

Forgive me for interrupting such a great conversation, but I'd like to join in by listing the top songs on each core Beatles record, just for fun:

1. Please Please Me - Twist and Shout (awesome cover! Beats the Isley Brothers' version easily!)
2. With the Beatles - Little Child (I'd go with Money but The RS version is so much better, Mick really rocks there)
3. A Hard Day's Night - either I Should Have Known Better or Things We Said Today, can't decide. (btw, I think the cover art of the album is one of the best by any artist)
4. Beatles for Sale - What You're Doing. Such a beautiful singing by Paul!
5. Help! - Tell Me What You See, hands down. It's my all-time fave Beatles song! (if we talk about the North American release, then it's the title track)
6. Rubber Soul - tough choice between What Goes On (sweet vocs by Ringo) & Norwegian Wood.
7. Revolver - Eur. And Your Bird Can Sing / Amer. Got to Get You Into My Life
8. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - With A Little Help From My Friends. So wonderful & friendly!
9. Magical Mystery Tour - Penny Lane (if you asked me 3 years ago, it'd be "The Fool on the Hill"). Generally, MMT is my favorite ever record by the group & honestly, every song except All You Need Is Love is great here!
10. The White Album - Piggies (lovely benign melody & vocals by George combined with funny pig sounds). Though Helter Skelter is very cool! I'm also a huge fan of Wild Honey Pie - gotta love some quirky stuff with creepy vocs.
11. Yellow Submarine - March of the Meanies. Nifty suspicious orchestration.
12. Abbey Road - Maxwell's Silver Hammer, full stop. Yet... the alternate highlight of the album is Here Comes the Sun, imo George's best achievement within the band. Absolutely stunning song!
13. Let It Be - Get Back. No wonder Paul still performs this rocking number in concerts.

Mind that some of the selections are done in comparison with the other tracks from respective albums & as individual cuts I won't listen to them. Especially Little Child, Twist and Shout & March of the Meanies.

Small note about Billy's daughter: from reading the stories about her, what she likes etc., I think she beats out even our friend EgoHanger. He posted that he's been digging the old music since 3 or 5 y.o. But he never mentioned he tried to play piano chords or drummed at such a young age. So, Jaymie is the coolest music-oriented child!

I never thought I would see someone pick Little Child or Tell Me What You See as favorites. When we still had an oldies station up here, they played deep into the Beatles catalog, but never those two. When I am out doing my solo acoustic thing, I can play pretty much any Beatles song and people know them - songs that were never singles, but they're part of everyone's consciousness now, I can't think of any other band I can do that with.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Forgive me for interrupting such a great conversation, but I'd like to join in by listing the top songs on each core Beatles record, just for fun:

1. Please Please Me - Twist and Shout (awesome cover! Beats the Isley Brothers' version easily!)
2. With the Beatles - Little Child (I'd go with Money but The RS version is so much better, Mick really rocks there)
3. A Hard Day's Night - either I Should Have Known Better or Things We Said Today, can't decide. (btw, I think the cover art of the album is one of the best by any artist)
4. Beatles for Sale - What You're Doing. Such a beautiful singing by Paul!
5. Help! - Tell Me What You See, hands down. It's my all-time fave Beatles song! (if we talk about the North American release, then it's the title track)
6. Rubber Soul - tough choice between What Goes On (sweet vocs by Ringo) & Norwegian Wood.
7. Revolver - Eur. And Your Bird Can Sing / Amer. Got to Get You Into My Life
8. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - With A Little Help From My Friends. So wonderful & friendly!
9. Magical Mystery Tour - Penny Lane (if you asked me 3 years ago, it'd be "The Fool on the Hill"). Generally, MMT is my favorite ever record by the group & honestly, every song except All You Need Is Love is great here!
10. The White Album - Piggies (lovely benign melody & vocals by George combined with funny pig sounds). Though Helter Skelter is very cool! I'm also a huge fan of Wild Honey Pie - gotta love some quirky stuff with creepy vocs.
11. Yellow Submarine - March of the Meanies. Nifty suspicious orchestration.
12. Abbey Road - Maxwell's Silver Hammer, full stop. Yet... the alternate highlight of the album is Here Comes the Sun, imo George's best achievement within the band. Absolutely stunning song!
13. Let It Be - Get Back. No wonder Paul still performs this rocking number in concerts.

Mind that some of the selections are done in comparison with the other tracks from respective albums & as individual cuts I won't listen to them. Especially Little Child, Twist and Shout & March of the Meanies.

I've spent so much time listening to this stuff over the month that I can do this now.

1. Please Please Me - Twist and Shout. Freaking awesome ...one of the best covers of anything by anyone.
2. With the Beatles - All My Loving. Very moving melody that never fails to bring a smile to my face.
3. A Hard Day's Night - If I Fell. My personal favorite song by anyone, anywhere, anytime. Period.
4. Beatles for Sale - No Reply, with Eight Days a Week a close second.
5. Help! - I've Just Seen a Face. Another one of my all-time favorite songs, with the added bonus of my having loved the song for years without knowing it was the Beatles.
6. Rubber Soul - In My Life
7. Revolver - Tomorrow Never Knows
8. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - A Day in the life
9. Magical Mystery Tour - The entire thing could be  tied for first. If I HAD to choose, then Strawberry Fields Forever. If you only count the ones from the actual soundtrack, then I am the Walrus.
10. The White Album - Helter Skelter...so badass.
11. Yellow Submarine - Does this count? Still need to hear it.
12. Abbey Road - I Want You (She's So Heavy). See comment on 'Helter Skelter'
13. Let It Be - Don't Let Me Down

[Dudd]

I'm pretty sure Don't Let Me Down isn't on Let It Be... was on Let It Be Naked, though.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

  Had it playing on Winamp as I was typing that.

Across the Universe.