Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fallacies about me'

[Shady]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Ummm... my reading of this statement is that he saw Brian's Gershwin tour, a notion which is supported by the whole of the post, viz. "I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place. " 

Is this a double bluff? Are you pretending to think that I was being serious. I'm genuinely confused now.

Are you even aware of what board you're currently posting on? This is the same board where people make such outlandish claims like "Mike Love is like Hitler", "Brian Wilson is a genius", "Al Jardine wanted the innocence"...

So you're saying Brian Wilson is not a genius?

[Heysaboda]

To all concerned: Please accept my sincere regrets for posting the news clip to begin with.

TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS BOARD: PLEASE PUT THIS BEAST OF A THREAD OUT OF ITS MISERY.

Ahhhhhhh TM lad. You don't need a horoscope to tell you that a thread with the words "Mike Love" in the title is bound to end in bad karma

Who was it who said "you don't need a horoscope to know which way the wind blows"?   

[Iron Horse-Apples]

To all concerned: Please accept my sincere regrets for posting the news clip to begin with.

TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS BOARD: PLEASE PUT THIS BEAST OF A THREAD OUT OF ITS MISERY.

Ahhhhhhh TM lad. You don't need a horoscope to tell you that a thread with the words "Mike Love" in the title is bound to end in bad karma

Who was it who said "you don't need a horoscope to know which way the wind blows"?  

Can't remember his name, but his voice is just ghastly  

[Heysaboda]

I am wondering…. At the end of this thread maybe we’ll all be taken by "The Rapture" or else we’ll go into a Star Trek wormhole.... or something.......

Nurse Ratched WHERE ARE MY PILLS

[Jason]

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well

I won't ask how old you are, as I know folk of your generation find that impolite, but WOW!!! You saw Gershwin. I'd love to hear all about this, and any war stories you may have.

And kudos to you for getting online at your age.

Ummm... my reading of this statement is that he saw Brian's Gershwin tour, a notion which is supported by the whole of the post, viz. "I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place. " 

Is this a double bluff? Are you pretending to think that I was being serious. I'm genuinely confused now.

Are you even aware of what board you're currently posting on? This is the same board where people make such outlandish claims like "Mike Love is like Hitler", "Brian Wilson is a genius", "Al Jardine wanted the innocence"...

So you're saying Brian Wilson is not a genius?

'Twas a joke. Do you even sarcasm, brah? 

[clack]

Mike in the interview says : "People say the Beatles were John Lennon. What is Paul McCartney? Chopped liver? But everyone has their own favourite members whose creativity they gravitate to. That's normal."

Here's the nub of the problem. In Mike's mind : for John Lennon, read Brian, and substitute Mike for Paul McCartney. Mike believes that he's the creative equal of Brian, and that whether people gravitate towards Brian or Mike as their favorite member, hey it's all subjective. Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, Wilson/Love -- who's to say who is the most important half of the songwriting partnership?

Thus all the talk about writing in a room with Brian. He wants to help build the songs from scratch, to be a full creative collaborator. He wants an album of Wilson/Love songs, and if he can't have that, he'd rather that their be no future Beach Boys album at all.

After all, what is he? Chopped liver?

[Jonathan Blum]

But what I'm saying it, with music this good, any number of skilled musicians could play them with the right amount of direction. Mike's band too....

See, that's what I'm saying is a no.  You wouldn't get the same performance and level of understanding with different players swapped in.  Switch Tim Bonhomme in place of Darian Sahanaja or Scott Bennett on keys...  would he come up with the extended solo at the end of the 2001 "Caroline No" I saw, which improvised around the melody of "Surf's Up"?  That's what a sympathetic band can do.  (To say nothing of the fact that if you swapped Tim for Darian or Scott, you wouldn't get a finished Smile or Lucky Old Sun or the new Gershwin numbers.)

As for many of the songs, Marcella especially: Brian's band can't touch the early 70's touring band with a 50 foot pole...

And if that band had played a show since 1974, I'd go see it and compare.  But this is about the two groups we've actually got now, isn't it?

Point remains, the "Marcella" I've seen is regularly *ferocious* -- and again, even if Scott and company added it to their setlist, it wouldn't have inspired touches like Brian's '50s-style piano intro with Taylor Mills soloing over it.  I don't think they'd even think of going there.

Oh, and you heard all those songs as sung by Jeff Foskett! .... Wowzers! ;P

Jeff Foskett versus Randell Kirsch, not really seeing a profound difference there.  But when I look at the band as a whole, I do...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

But what I'm saying it, with music this good, any number of skilled musicians could play them with the right amount of direction. Mike's band too....

See, that's what I'm saying is a no.  You wouldn't get the same performance and level of understanding with different players swapped in.  Switch Tim Bonhomme in place of Darian Sahanaja or Scott Bennett on keys...  would he come up with the extended solo at the end of the 2001 "Caroline No" I saw, which improvised around the melody of "Surf's Up"?  That's what a sympathetic band can do.  (To say nothing of the fact that if you swapped Tim for Darian or Scott, you wouldn't get a finished Smile or Lucky Old Sun or the new Gershwin numbers.)]


That's just an opinion that can't be substantiated by anything other than personal bias and, again, opinion..... Nothing against Brian's band, per se, but to say no other musicians out there could play the material as well or bring their own personal flair to the proceedings, let alone Mike/Bruce's guys is just ridiculous! .... You have no idea what Tim Bonhomme would or wouldn't do with any material under the sun that you've never heard him play..... You enjoy Brian's band, as do I, but we're not psychics here..... I've never heard anyone in Brian's band sing and drum Wild Honey as well as Cowsill, though I'm sure any one of them would/could do a damn good job of it.

[Nicko1234]

Here's the nub of the problem. In Mike's mind : for John Lennon, read Brian, and substitute Mike for Paul McCartney. Mike believes that he's the creative equal of Brian, and that whether people gravitate towards Brian or Mike as their favorite member, hey it's all subjective.

Not according to him. While Mike certainly has an ego and a half, he has said `I don`t think I`m as talented as Brian`. On more than one occasion.

[Jonathan Blum]

That's just an opinion that can't be substantiated by anything other than personal bias and, again, opinion.....

Yup -- I'm not sure how describing them as "one of the best damn bands I've ever seen" looked like anything but my own personal opinion!  Remember, this bit all came from me describing why I saw Brian's band as superlative and Mike&Bruce's band as very good.

Nothing against Brian's band, per se, but to say no other musicians out there could play the material as well or bring their own personal flair to the proceedings, let alone Mike/Bruce's guys is just ridiculous! .... You have no idea what Tim Bonhomme would or wouldn't do with any material under the sun that you've never heard him play...

Well, the fact that I've never heard him play "Caroline No" at all is part of the difference between the two bands -- my point is that they don't do stuff like that.  Hell, I've just had a look on Youtube and can't find a single clip of the modern Beach Boys playing it at all.  If Tim Bonhomme has a genius jazz-influenced take on "Caroline No" somewhere in him?  I'm not going to see it at a Beach Boys show.  But I've seen it at Brian's show.

(On the flipside?  I did see Mike & Bruce do a great version of "You Still Believe In Me" with full symphony orchestra -- very faithful and rich.  But I get more of that sort of thing, and more surprising little touches, with Brian.)

I've never heard anyone in Brian's band sing and drum Wild Honey as well as Cowsill, though I'm sure any one of them would/could do a damn good job of it.

Darian's version was pretty damn good, IIRC, but I'm happy to give John the edge on that one!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jim V.]

Darian's version was pretty damn good, IIRC, but I'm happy to give John the edge on that one!

I think you're confusing "Wild Honey" with "Darlin'". Darian did "Darlin'", but I'm pretty sure Brian's group has never done "Wild Honey".

[Nicko1234]

Well, the fact that I've never heard him play "Caroline No" at all is part of the difference between the two bands -- my point is that they don't do stuff like that.  Hell, I've just had a look on Youtube and can't find a single clip of the modern Beach Boys playing it at all.  If Tim Bonhomme has a genius jazz-influenced take on "Caroline No" somewhere in him?  I'm not going to see it at a Beach Boys show.  But I've seen it at Brian's show.

Mike`s band have fully rehearsed this one but have yet to perform it for whatever reason.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

That's just an opinion that can't be substantiated by anything other than personal bias and, again, opinion.....

Yup -- I'm not sure how describing them as "one of the best damn bands I've ever seen" looked like anything but my own personal opinion!  Remember, this bit all came from me describing why I saw Brian's band as superlative and Mike&Bruce's band as very good.

Nothing against Brian's band, per se, but to say no other musicians out there could play the material as well or bring their own personal flair to the proceedings, let alone Mike/Bruce's guys is just ridiculous! .... You have no idea what Tim Bonhomme would or wouldn't do with any material under the sun that you've never heard him play...

Well, the fact that I've never heard him play "Caroline No" at all is part of the difference between the two bands -- my point is that they don't do stuff like that.  Hell, I've just had a look on Youtube and can't find a single clip of the modern Beach Boys playing it at all.  If Tim Bonhomme has a genius jazz-influenced take on "Caroline No" somewhere in him?  I'm not going to see it at a Beach Boys show.  But I've seen it at Brian's show.

(On the flipside?  I did see Mike & Bruce do a great version of "You Still Believe In Me" with full symphony orchestra -- very faithful and rich.  But I get more of that sort of thing, and more surprising little touches, with Brian.)

I've never heard anyone in Brian's band sing and drum Wild Honey as well as Cowsill, though I'm sure any one of them would/could do a damn good job of it.

Darian's version was pretty damn good, IIRC, but I'm happy to give John the edge on that one!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Very well put, Jon! I get what you're sayin'

Are we sure Darian has never done Wild Honey with Brian? I LOVE his take on Darlin!

[filledeplage]

But what I'm saying it, with music this good, any number of skilled musicians could play them with the right amount of direction. Mike's band too....

See, that's what I'm saying is a no.  You wouldn't get the same performance and level of understanding with different players swapped in.  Switch Tim Bonhomme in place of Darian Sahanaja or Scott Bennett on keys...  would he come up with the extended solo at the end of the 2001 "Caroline No" I saw, which improvised around the melody of "Surf's Up"?  That's what a sympathetic band can do.  (To say nothing of the fact that if you swapped Tim for Darian or Scott, you wouldn't get a finished Smile or Lucky Old Sun or the new Gershwin numbers.)]

That's just an opinion that can't be substantiated by anything other than personal bias and, again, opinion..... Nothing against Brian's band, per se, but to say no other musicians out there could play the material as well or bring their own personal flair to the proceedings, let alone Mike/Bruce's guys is just ridiculous! .... You have no idea what Tim Bonhomme would or wouldn't do with any material under the sun that you've never heard him play..... You enjoy Brian's band, as do I, but we're not psychics here..... I've never heard anyone in Brian's band sing and drum Wild Honey as well as Cowsill, though I'm sure any one of them would/could do a damn good job of it.

This discussion brings to mind an old legal term - "fungible" which is sort of loosely defined as "interchangeable" such as a dollar bill, or grain, or other commodity.  Here is where I find the bands different.  The Touring Band, appears to "plug in" the original members' vocal parts, such as Johnston singing Carl's lead on GOK or Kirsch singing the falsetto part that Brian did (not the lead) and using the original vocal "blend" of the BB's.  

My take on Brian's band is that they "accompany" Brian, and are not "locked into" a BB blend.  And, they might be singing someone's original part, but I'm not hearing a "locked" sound but a "supporting" vocal. I hear Brian as the "star" and his band as "supporting" voices.  The Touring Band (to their credit) has "lead singers" such as Love, Johnston, Cowsill, Totten, Kirsch, or C.Love, but NO stars.  The BB's, in the original context had NO stars, either.  It is "team singing."

Second, back to the "fungible" interchangeability.  Any technically accurate musician can play a part, and "keep time." And that includes percussionists. Each band has a certain "gifted" percussionist. Brian has Nelson; the Touring Band has Cowsill.

Cowsill doesn't appear to play "with the music." Somehow, he becomes ingrained "into" the music, in some "interior monologue" sense, and it is like his heart is beating in a different rhythm with each song change.  He is "inside" that individual "groove" of each song.  That is not an acquired skill.  You can't learn that.  You're born with it.  Cowsill is not interchangeable. His backbeat MADE "C50." And he is from a very gifted family band, as well.

As far as Caroline, No, I've heard it in Pet Sounds context, with Brian's band.  And, that was quite a tour. (Pet Sounds, Live)

[Jonathan Blum]

I think you're confusing "Wild Honey" with "Darlin'". Darian did "Darlin'", but I'm pretty sure Brian's group has never done "Wild Honey".

Yup -- brainfart on my part!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[filledeplage]

Jon - I'm jealous you saw Gershwin! It wasn't anywhere near me, and one out-of-state show, I didn't know about till it was over.  My experience is that after going to BB theme stuff, you "run into" some of the same great fans.  That would create a sort of Venn diagram, where there is a sort of "crossover" with some of the same people attending all BB related events. I always see Brian.

That said, there is a certain "snob zone" quality at Brian's shows, where there isn't an interest to see the Touring Band, and there is a sneer attached.  This isn't the band, who are absolutely awesome. Nelson and Probyn whom I've met and had a chance to chat with are great down-to-earth guys. (and New Englanders!)

It is the oft stuck-up fans, who look down their noses at the Touring Band, as "non-artistic" and a "fraud." These are often Pet Sounds and SMiLE centristic, and who refuse to see the growth and prefiguration of the earlier work.  They don't appreciate the work on Today, or the thread of thematic Brian-driven foresight which led to this work, which was very marginalized in its' own time.  Brian (and the band) grew with each song. And, yet, these fans who are Brian-only "party" when Brian does the "dirty old BB hit parade" that they dump on with regard the Touring Band, as "sell-outs" (pun intended!)  I find it perplexing.

And, in fairness, the Touring Band is usually a sell-out.  It wasn't always that way, but they've built a successful business model. And, their guys are very good. I notice since C50, the Touring Band is better than ever, especially Bonhomme and Christian.  They used the off-stage time wisely (even if Bonhomme was on the C50 road.) He is on rockin' fire, now.  And, Totten and Cowsill have brought back the C50 experience with an confidently explosive "can-do" attitude.  It is readily transparent in the recently added Wild Honey.  

I was fortunate to see Gershwin as well - at historic Massey Hall in Toronto two years ago. Absolutely magical. When they broke into 'You Can't Take That Away From Me' the roof flew off the place.

Regarding the highlighted yellow - yup, guilty as charged! Look, I've seen M&B maybe four times. The mindset to those events was always 'oh well...here goes...party time'. The Brian shows are an event. It's like Single Malt vs. Canadian Club. (you can still have a good time with Canadian Club, but you get the drift)

A lasting hipster memory to me: the Tuesday night @ midnight cue outside of Easy Street Records in Seattle. Thirty strong, a band of 20 something hipsters were waiting to buy SMiLE. Not a Hawaiian Shirt or Republican within miles of that place! 

I kind of keep it under my hat when I decide to take in a M&B show. I've got street cred, after all. 

Street cred! I'll never tell! 

And, yes, Canadian Club, VO,( and Crown Royale!) -  Now that is a real beverage!

Single malt! (haven't acquired a taste for that!) 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think you're confusing "Wild Honey" with "Darlin'". Darian did "Darlin'", but I'm pretty sure Brian's group has never done "Wild Honey".

Yup -- brainfart on my part!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Jon, I must admit, with this topic, I think I'm still fighting, like a fever dream,  that long ago battle where folks would say things like "Brian could have swapped out/replaced/ or had any other guys in the original Beach Boys and it would have been just as good"  and then using that same logic on his solo band in order to get even!....  Thank God that seems to be over


And filledeplage: though I am a single malt nut myself, some of my fave Scotch are blends

[Rocky Raccoon]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Oh man, I would love to see her tackle something like Surf's Up or Wonderful! We don't need to force Brian/Jeff to sing the lead on everything. Brian should do with his band what he did with The Beach Boys and hand out leads to whoever would do it the best.

[Wirestone]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Oh man, I would love to see her tackle something like Surf's Up or Wonderful! We don't need to force Brian/Jeff to sing the lead on everything. Brian should do with his band what he did with The Beach Boys and hand out leads to whoever would do it the best.

Except there was a sizable contingent on this board that bitched to high heaven whenever Brian's band members take leads. "We didn't pay to see Jeff / Darian / Scott sing lead!" And I think that vehement fan response has kept the BW folk from taking that intriguing concept any further.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Oh man, I would love to see her tackle something like Surf's Up or Wonderful! We don't need to force Brian/Jeff to sing the lead on everything. Brian should do with his band what he did with The Beach Boys and hand out leads to whoever would do it the best.

Except there was a sizable contingent on this board that bitched to high heaven whenever Brian's band members take leads. "We didn't pay to see Jeff / Darian / Scott sing lead!" And I think that vehement fan response has kept the BW folk from taking that intriguing concept any further.

Well, they'll have to get used to it, if it's down to either that or Brian only singing with Jeff doubling/covering/or Brian flat-out lip syncing to Jeff.... I think this is mainly a dislike of Jeff.... Not a personal dislike, but he has no charisma (something the other band members DO have) and is a poor substitute for Brian and the trick fools no one at this point.

Just my two cents.

[JohnMill]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Oh man, I would love to see her tackle something like Surf's Up or Wonderful! We don't need to force Brian/Jeff to sing the lead on everything. Brian should do with his band what he did with The Beach Boys and hand out leads to whoever would do it the best.

Except there was a sizable contingent on this board that bitched to high heaven whenever Brian's band members take leads. "We didn't pay to see Jeff / Darian / Scott sing lead!" And I think that vehement fan response has kept the BW folk from taking that intriguing concept any further.

Well, they'll have to get used to it, if it's down to either that or Brian only singing with Jeff doubling/covering/or Brian flat-out lip syncing to Jeff.... I think this is mainly a dislike of Jeff.... Not a personal dislike, but he has no charisma (something the other band members DO have) and is a poor substitute for Brian and the trick fools no one at this point.

Just my two cents.

Dislike is a strong word but I echo some of those sentiments that Brian's band needs a bit of a freshen up which is why I'm glad Al Jardine and David Marks will be touring the circuit with Brian this summer at least at some shows.  There is only so much Brian Wilson and his band can do without sounding like a "Beach Boys" cover band which is funnily enough the reason a decided pocket of Beach Boys fans (myself included) won't attend a M&B show to save their lives.  At least with Brian there is the aura of having the man who wrote the songs as the leader of the group onstage performing the songs.  M&B have none of that appeal and yes before anyone brings it up, myself and obviously most others are aware that Love did co-write a lot of the Beach Boys hits and was unjustly denied his moment in the sun by Murry Wilson.

But it is what it is.  Mike Love had the screws put to him back in the day and in order to get his deserved piece of the pie had to sue Brian.  The problem is the majority of people don't like lawsuits and look upon the people who instigate them as petty in most cases.  So in the eyes of many Mike Love while legitimately denied his moment in the sun back in the sixties is also the guy who in order to get credit for writing the songs had to go to court, sue his cousin, bring about a lot of unpleasantness in the process and well once you get done running all that around the table, the damage done to Love is pretty significant.  

Anyhow back to my original point, Brian's band needs a bit of a freshen up in my opinion and hopefully by next summer with new material in hand, there will be something new to see on that front.

[Wirestone]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Oh man, I would love to see her tackle something like Surf's Up or Wonderful! We don't need to force Brian/Jeff to sing the lead on everything. Brian should do with his band what he did with The Beach Boys and hand out leads to whoever would do it the best.

Except there was a sizable contingent on this board that bitched to high heaven whenever Brian's band members take leads. "We didn't pay to see Jeff / Darian / Scott sing lead!" And I think that vehement fan response has kept the BW folk from taking that intriguing concept any further.

Well, they'll have to get used to it, if it's down to either that or Brian only singing with Jeff doubling/covering/or Brian flat-out lip syncing to Jeff.... I think this is mainly a dislike of Jeff.... Not a personal dislike, but he has no charisma (something the other band members DO have) and is a poor substitute for Brian and the trick fools no one at this point.

Just my two cents.

I have never seen Brian "lip sync" for Jeff. And the doubling was, IIRC, confined to the 1999 tour.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Oh man, I would love to see her tackle something like Surf's Up or Wonderful! We don't need to force Brian/Jeff to sing the lead on everything. Brian should do with his band what he did with The Beach Boys and hand out leads to whoever would do it the best.

Except there was a sizable contingent on this board that bitched to high heaven whenever Brian's band members take leads. "We didn't pay to see Jeff / Darian / Scott sing lead!" And I think that vehement fan response has kept the BW folk from taking that intriguing concept any further.

Well, they'll have to get used to it, if it's down to either that or Brian only singing with Jeff doubling/covering/or Brian flat-out lip syncing to Jeff.... I think this is mainly a dislike of Jeff.... Not a personal dislike, but he has no charisma (something the other band members DO have) and is a poor substitute for Brian and the trick fools no one at this point.

Just my two cents.

I have never seen Brian "lip sync" for Jeff. And the doubling was, IIRC, confined to the 1999 tour.

Really?

"Lip-sync" might be a bit of a (tiny) exaggeration, but......

Anyone have that Brian & Band: "Lonely Sea" clip handy?

[Shady]

I would like Taylor Mills to come back to Brian's band.  That woman's got a voice.  Or a different female backing singer if Mills has moved on.  I think the band benefitted greatly from a female presence.

Apart from being a total stunner she didn't really serve a purpose IMO.