How do fans view Jack Rieley and his influence?

[Smile4ever]

Is there any fan consensus on Jack Rieley's work and influence on the Beach Boys in the 70s?

What was the good, the bad and the ugly? Any final verdict?

[Loaf]

Is there any fan consensus on Jack Rieley's work and influence on the Beach Boys in the 70s?

What was the good, the bad and the ugly? Any final verdict?

Fan consensus? On here? We can't even decide whether we're buying the new boxed set.

I love the Reiley period. I wish the band would get him back now.

[urbanite]

He put some life and relevance back into the band.

[Rocker]

Rieley was great for the band imo. He sticked mostly with the Wilsons but the other members weren't overlooked. Imo the perfect situation. He loved and understood the music of the band (early years and recent). Of course there were points and happenings that probably weren't as good but all in all I think he was the best thing for the group since Derek Taylor and his departure (and other things) heralded the road downhill for the Beach Boys

[Rocky Raccoon]

I think he was a great collaborator for Brian and Carl, the songs with his name as a co-writer on it are some of my favorites in their catalog though whether that has to do with him is up for debate.  I really like the way the band sounded live at that time, the In Concert album is fantastic.  On the other hand, I think taking the band to Holland (which was probably the biggest decision Rieley made for them) was kind of a pointless and selfish idea that did the band little service.

[oldsurferdude]

For me, probably the most interesting, creative period in their history. With all the beach and car material well behind them, they could stretch out a bit with "Feel Flows" being a perfect example of where they were headed. Rieley's "thinking man's" lyrics were a most welcome change as we were moving along with our lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the surfin' stuff was fun and all that but it was time to go forward in new directions. Of course he wouldn't be around long because someone else had different ideas about just what the band should be doing. Shame.

[Jason]

For me, probably the most interesting, creative period in their history. With all the beach and car material well behind them, they could stretch out a bit with "Feel Flows" being a perfect example of where they were headed. Rieley's "thinking man's" lyrics were a most welcome change as we were moving along with our lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the surfin' stuff was fun and all that but it was time to go forward in new directions. Of course he wouldn't be around long because someone else had different ideas about just what the band should be doing. Shame.

Yeah, someone else being the entire band - the decision to fire him was unanimous.

[Jim V.]

For me, probably the most interesting, creative period in their history. With all the beach and car material well behind them, they could stretch out a bit with "Feel Flows" being a perfect example of where they were headed. Rieley's "thinking man's" lyrics were a most welcome change as we were moving along with our lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the surfin' stuff was fun and all that but it was time to go forward in new directions. Of course he wouldn't be around long because someone else had different ideas about just what the band should be doing. Shame.

Yeah, someone else being the entire band - the decision to fire him was unanimous.

You're correct, RBB. And I agree with you that Mike gets villainized to an extent sometimes that he doesn't deserve. But on the other hand, I think you push back a little too hard. I mean, the facts are it is Mike Love, more than anybody, that turned the group into a somewhat farcial "oldies" group, a la the Four Seasons or The Coasters, rather than a rock institution like The Who or the Rolling Stones (whatever your opinions of those groups, they obviously are taken much more seriously, although that's been changing since the '90s).

[Wirestone]

His influence was a net positive, but only just. The concepts, both for updating the band's sound and themes, were solid. The lyrics were mostly -- but not all -- terrible. And much of the actual business side was awful.

[Smilin Ed H]

Positive. Absolutely. Terrible lyrics?  Generally, they get a lot worse after this period and there are people who'd dismiss VDP's as pretentious twaddle. For all - so we're told - that Mike and Al didn't get along with him, this was a great period for both of them.

[Rocker]

Positive, Absolutely. Terrible lyrics?  Generally, they get a lot worse after this period and there are people who'd dismiss VDP's as pretentious twaddle. For all - so we're told - that Mike and Al didn't get along with him, this was a great period for both of them.

The lyrics for "The trader" are among the best the Beach Boys ever had imo.

[Smile4ever]

You're correct, RBB. And I agree with you that Mike gets villainized to an extent sometimes that he doesn't deserve. But on the other hand, I think you push back a little too hard. I mean, the facts are it is Mike Love, more than anybody, that turned the group into a somewhat farcial "oldies" group, a la the Four Seasons or The Coasters, rather than a rock institution like The Who or the Rolling Stones (whatever your opinions of those groups, they obviously are taken much more seriously, although that's been changing since the '90s).

That's definitely true.

[Smile4ever]

His influence was a net positive, but only just. The concepts, both for updating the band's sound and themes, were solid. The lyrics were mostly -- but not all -- terrible. And much of the actual business side was awful.

I agree. It seems like the concepts were really good. But a lot of the execution didn't work.

[drbeachboy]

For me, probably the most interesting, creative period in their history. With all the beach and car material well behind them, they could stretch out a bit with "Feel Flows" being a perfect example of where they were headed. Rieley's "thinking man's" lyrics were a most welcome change as we were moving along with our lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the surfin' stuff was fun and all that but it was time to go forward in new directions. Of course he wouldn't be around long because someone else had different ideas about just what the band should be doing. Shame.

Yeah, someone else being the entire band - the decision to fire him was unanimous.

You're correct, RBB. And I agree with you that Mike gets villainized to an extent sometimes that he doesn't deserve. But on the other hand, I think you push back a little too hard. I mean, the facts are it is Mike Love, more than anybody, that turned the group into a somewhat farcial "oldies" group, a la the Four Seasons or The Coasters, rather than a rock institution like The Who or the Rolling Stones (whatever your opinions of those groups, they obviously are taken much more seriously, although that's been changing since the '90s).

Another reason for the firing was due to him staying in Holland and wanting to manage the band from afar.

Mike may have steered the band back towards the oldies, but that also came from the reaction of the fans after the release of Endless Summer. Remember, even after Rieley's departure, they hadn't gone Nostalgia yet. The main guy to blame there is Jim Guercio.

[Doo Dah]

The old axiom "nature abhors a vacuum" applies here. He stepped into a situation that needed a guiding hand. Probably the most pro-active manager the Beach Boys ever had, at least in terms of recorded output. Guercio never managed them did he? I'm thinking he was mostly involved via Caribou and the post Endless Summer shows.

When you think about it, the history of the band's management (post Murry) was mostly concentrated upon the business end, the live act revenue end of the bidniss.

Jack was the right call at the right time. You would have needed a Kissinger to navigate these guys through the difficult times post 15BO.

[drbeachboy]

The old axiom "nature abhors a vacuum" applies here. He stepped into a situation that needed a guiding hand. Probably the most pro-active manager the Beach Boys ever had, at least in terms of recorded output. Guercio never managed them did he? I'm thinking he was mostly involved via Caribou and the post Endless Summer shows.

When you think about it, the history of the band's management (post Murry) was mostly concentrated upon the business end, the live act revenue end of the bidniss.

Jack was the right call at the right time. You would have needed a Kissinger to navigate these guys through the difficult times post 15BO.

I think Guercio was managing them in 1974-1976. If he wasn't, then he still had a lot of influence on their career, especially as a touring band.

[oldsurferdude]

The old axiom "nature abhors a vacuum" applies here. He stepped into a situation that needed a guiding hand. Probably the most pro-active manager the Beach Boys ever had, at least in terms of recorded output. Guercio never managed them did he? I'm thinking he was mostly involved via Caribou and the post Endless Summer shows.

When you think about it, the history of the band's management (post Murry) was mostly concentrated upon the business end, the live act revenue end of the bidniss.

Jack was the right call at the right time. You would have needed a Kissinger to navigate these guys through the difficult times post 15BO.

And I'd think that Jack breathed a sigh of relief to be done with the hornet's nest as well.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I view Reiley's influence as a mixed bag.

He definitely influenced a lot of the lyrics, as if he helped the group graduate from mostly love songs to more sophisticated, and in some cases, interesting topics. It depends on whether you liked those "relevant" topics, but I do think they (the lyrics) sound slightly forced, and the guys never really returned to those subjects again.

As much as I like the albums he was involved with, all of them had room for improvement and seemed to missing "something", not that it was entirely Jack's fault.

I think Jack Reiley's best contribution was getting Brian Wilson to create some of his most quirky, out-there, and deep material. If there was ever a time when I wish Brian would've and could've recorded a solo album, it would've been that 1970-1973 period. I think it would've been incredible.

 

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

A necessary jackass.

[oldsurferdude]

I view Reiley's influence as a mixed bag.

He definitely influenced a lot of the lyrics, as if he helped the group graduate from mostly love songs to more sophisticated, and in some cases, interesting topics. It depends on whether you liked those "relevant" topics, but I do think they (the lyrics) sound slightly forced, and the guys never really returned to those subjects again.

As much as I like the albums he was involved with, all of them had room for improvement and seemed to missing "something", not that it was entirely Jack's fault.

I think Jack Reiley's best contribution was getting Brian Wilson to create some of his most quirky, out-there, and deep material. If there was ever a time when I wish Brian would've and could've recorded a solo album, it would've been that 1970-1973 period. I think it would've been incredible.

 

SJS, that is an amazing idea with the only downside being another big what if?? He most likely had more than enough of his own material and still could sing well. Never thought about until now.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Rieley was a fantastic influence on the band, and the negativity some fans feel towards him leaves me genuinely baffled.

His management and influence resulted in the band's critical and commercial standing completely turning around.

He was behind two terrific albums (Surf's Up, Holland), a fascinating but flawed fan favourite (CATP), and the best live album of their career (In Concert).

He co-wrote, amongst others, Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Trader, A Day In The Life Of A Tree, Steamboat and Funky Pretty.

His lyrics - although much derided - fitted the bands music like a glove, in particularly the songs he co-wrote with Carl, and are very under-rated indeed ('the river's a bed of sweet berries and flowers' may not be pristine poetry however, when sung by Carl, it sounds magical, as Rieley no doubt knew it would).

He got the band to shake up their live act, the result of which was their greatest, most satisfying period performing live.

He favoured the Wilsons above the less-talented members of the group, something which led to Bruce Johnston buggering off. No more sappy schmaltz clogging up their albums? Result!

He introduced Blondie and Ricky to the band's line-up which - no matter how you feel about the duo's song-writing abilities (personally I rate it) - really invigorated the group and their live shows.

He masterminded the trip to the Netherlands. A colossal waste of money? Well, for the record company perhaps, but who cares about them? It resulted in one of the greatest albums of their entire career!

He contributed a perfect lead vocal to ADITLOAT - he can't sing, but his cracked vocals convey the sad lyrics perfectly - and his reading of Mt Vernon is spot-on.

Their album artwork during his period with the group was frequently stunning (to me, Holland has the best front and back cover of their career - an amazing looking record!)

So WIBNTLA was dropped from Surf's Up - and that was Rieley's fault how? Hey, would YOU argue with Dennis Wilson? Thought not. The guy had a tricky bunch of guys he had to pacify and he handled the job well.

So, yeah... Rieley is a GOOD THING!!  

[Smilin Ed H]

"The lyrics for "The trader" are among the best the Beach Boys ever had imo."

Hence my question mark. Was it Rieley who drafted in Blondie and Ricky or was it Carl (or Al, initially, in another version I've read)?

With the exception of Dennis, the standard of songs by the rest of the group goes pretty much down the pan after Reiley left.

[Paulos]

I think that Jack Rieley was a positive influence on The Beach Boys.I actually like his lyrics and I'm not sure why they get branded as twaddle when people fall over themselves to praise Van Dyke Park's lyrics which could also be considered as meaningless nonsense.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I think that Jack Rieley was a positive influence on The Beach Boys.I actually like his lyrics and I'm not sure why they get branded as twaddle when people fall over themselves to praise Van Dyke Park's lyrics which could also be considered as meaningless nonsense.

This is about as accurate a statement as I've ever read. When people moan about the lyrics to Feel Flows I just think, 'Have you heard the backing track? What should Carl have been singing about over this mysterious-sounding experimental slice of psychedelica - girls and cars?' The lyrics fit absolutely perfectly and it doesn't matter whether they make sense or not - the fact is: they work!

[Rocky Raccoon]

I actually have a question.  On "Feel Flows," the writing credit is (C. Wilson-J. Rieley) but on "Long Promised Road," it's (J. Rieley-C. Wilson).  Would that mean that Rieley actually wrote most of "Long Promised Road"?