Was Murry Helpful?

[alf wiedersehen]

I am ready to admit that I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as most other people here, and that I've been into this band only a short amount of time (approximately a year,) so I was hoping that someone would know more than I do on this topic.

What I know about Murry stems almost entirely from the stories of his drunken abuse. Oh, and also that he's a genius too.  

When listening to things like the disastrous "Help Me, Rhonda" sessions, it seems that he always has words of advice for the boys, whether they were asking or not.

However, some of his suggestions/observations seem accurate, which leads me to ask...

Was Murry helpful to the band? Or was he more of a detriment?

[Gertie J.]

he was.

[pixletwin]

he was.

Up to a point.

[drbeachboy]

From the business side of things, he was very helpful. He was very dogged when came to getting the guys signed to a record company. He protected their business interests, until he sold Sea of Tunes later in the decade. I believe he ran interference between Capitol and the Boys' when necessary. It just seems that it was his interaction with the group which was the bone of contention.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Mikie]

One time Brian took a crap and Murry hit him in the ear with it.  Another time Murry took a 2x4 piece of wood and hit Brian's dinner plate with it.

[JohnMill]

As I mentioned the other day I think on one level Murry truly loved and cared about his boys. 

But he was never able to conquer his own demons where he could be anything other than marginally helpful or effective presence in their lives.  So the short answer is while he remains an integral part of The Beach Boys' story, whatever contributions he made to their career unfortunately are overshadowed by other less than favorable aspects of his personality.

[alf wiedersehen]

Like Landy was to Brian, Murry was first helpful, then detrimental to The Beach Boys.

Why do you think that happened with Landy? Did he see an opportunity for money and jumped on it?

[BeHereInTheMorning]

Brian said of his father:

"He was the one who got us going. He didn't make us better artists or musicians, but he gave us ambition. I'm pleased he pushed us, because it was such a relief to know there was someone as strong as my dad to keep things going. He used to spank us, and it hurt too, but I loved him because he was a great musician."

He was a product of his times, for better and for worse. He definitely gave too much unsolicited advice. He saw his sons as "boys" until the day he died. I'm pretty sure that I read that he thought that his songs were better than those of the group. Without his initial drive, though, who knows what would have happened?

[alf wiedersehen]

As I mentioned the other day I think on one level Murry truly loved and cared about his boys. 

But he was never able to conquer his own demons where he could be anything other than marginally helpful or effective presence in their lives.  So the short answer is while he remains an integral part of The Beach Boys' story, whatever contributions he made to their career unfortunately are overshadowed by other less than favorable aspects of his personality.

I can understand what you're saying about him trying to help, like when he sold off Sea of Tunes.

He looked at it like a favor; he was going to put The Beach Boys out of their misery and end it with a pile of money. But, instead, everyone turned on him.

[JohnMill]

Like Landy was to Brian, Murry was first helpful, then detrimental to The Beach Boys.

Why do you think that happened with Landy? Did he see an opportunity for money and jumped on it?

Regarding Landy, he's generally looked upon as somewhat of a controversial figure due to his methods of therapy and the reports back on these methods from his former patients.  You might want to peruse this thread a bit which delves a bit into Landy's treatment of actors Gig Young and Maureen McCormick:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14006.0.html

[ontor pertawst]

Some good music world contacts, hilariously persistent radio promo and the like in the early days, tireless snarling protection of his family that he'd prefer to abuse thank you very much... and giving Brian a lifelong insecurity and need to show he's got the guts. Sing from your hearts!

Also, more answers to questions should come in the form of shortenin' bread riffs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbmVXC_akYU

[alf wiedersehen]

Like Landy was to Brian, Murry was first helpful, then detrimental to The Beach Boys.

Why do you think that happened with Landy? Did he see an opportunity for money and jumped on it?

Regarding Landy, he's generally looked upon as somewhat of a controversial figure due to his methods of therapy and the reports back on these methods from his former patients.  You might want to peruse this thread a bit which delves a bit into Landy's treatment of actors Gig Young and Maureen McCormick:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14006.0.html

Thanks for the link. That was actually a really interesting read.

[alf wiedersehen]

Anyone else notice similarities between Joe Jackson and Murry Wilson?

[Amanda Hart]

This is probably going to sound very arm-chair psychologist, but I don't think the Wilson's situation was that much different than any other family with at least one abusive parent. A guy like Murry wasn't hitting his kids because he hated them or because he was some kind of a monster; he did it to control them. Even after they were successful adults, Murry tried everything he could to control his sons. You can hear it in the Help Me, Rhonda session, and you can read it in those letters from the Hard Rock Collection. His biggest fear was losing control over them. When he honestly started to believe it was a losing battle, and the boys were too far gone from his influence, he sold the catalog and tried to save himself.

In his own mind, he was a failure and felt like his life was out of his control. He's waiting for his big break as a songwriter, but the Hollywood phonies are ripping him off and keeping him down. He's making a comfortable living and climbing the blue collar latter, but a freak accident debilitates him. But, at home, he's in charge. There's an attentive audience that he can mold however he wants. When the boys are doing well he is their biggest supporter. He talks them up to his friends, and then eventually to record companies and radio stations. When they fall out of line though, he's there to make sure they know what they did wrong and gives them a punishment they won't forget.

Was he helpful? Absolutely. Aside from the obvious reasons he was essential to the band's story, he gave his sons something to strive for and the work ethic to do it. Relationships with abusive parents are really complex, and you see that playing out in each of Brian, Dennis and Carl's different personalities, perspectives and the relationships they had with their dad at the end of his life. It's one of those things that unless you a similar relationship with your parents you probably will never be able to fully understand. In that way, you should consider yourself lucky to have to ask questions like this.

[Mikie]

"He [Murry] was the one who got us going. He didn't make us better artists or musicians, but he gave us ambition. I'm pleased he pushed us, because it was such a relief to know there was someone as strong as my dad to keep things going. He used to spank us, and it hurt too, but I loved him because he was a great musician."

"You know my father mixed all our early surfing records. He was like our producer in fact. Yeah, that's what he was. He'd produce our records though he really didn't get credit. He'd tell us to tighten up a bit, offer us discipline, and if we didn't do it he'd get really mad. It was almost like a pep talk: "Okay you guys, you're slacking off now, tighten up a bit" and sure enough we did".

- Brian Wilson

[Iron Horse-Apples]

he was.

Up to a point.

These two posts sum up Murry's involvement perfectly. They most certainly wouldn't have made it without him, but his help quickly became detrimental.

[SenorPotatoHead]

My feeling is Murry was essential, not just helpful.   They wouldn't have got the success as early as they did without him (IMO).   Murry pushed those early battles (ie where they were allowed to record, who produced them...) to winning results.  He was a maniac, it seems, but there was obviously a really great guy there too.   More than anything, to me anyway, it's the "Murry component" which is the crux of the biggest tragedy within the group/family.    So, he was helpful to be sure, in the biggest ways, but he was also unhelpful and destructive in the worst ways as well.    It's actually pretty damn sad if you think about it too much. 
I have wanted to ask this, and maybe here is an okay place to do so.  Are there not more interviews done with Murry?  I have read a few quotes and things, but nothing overly in depth as far as an interview.  He must have done a few, either print or (my biggest hope) on film - I mean, he was after all the manager (for a while) and father and uncle of the Beach Boys , there had to have been at least some interest in talking with him (I'm assuming).   
Now, I suppose AGD or one of you is going to point out something obvious and easily located out there in regard to this if only I were not an "asshat" and asking ridiculously amateur things - and that's okay, you can point that out - just do it kindly please (believe it or not this potato has a soft heart  ). 

[SonicVolcano]

Is it true he sang along with the boys on Breakaway/Break Away?

[Mikie]

.

[Mikie]

I have wanted to ask this, and maybe here is an okay place to do so.  Are there not more interviews done with Murry?  I have read a few quotes and things, but nothing overly in depth as far as an interview. 

One of the most revealing ones that I've read to date (unless I forgot something along the way) is the '71 Tom Nolan Rolling Stone article. There's a few Murry quotes in there and a few comments about him from others. The story I still like is when Murry went down to Capitol to seal a contract for the band and Voyle Gilmore (or was it Nick Venet?) made Murry "cool his heels in the foyer" and would routinely hide behind his desk to avoid being seen during Murry's 'visits'.

And of course the story of Britz wiring up a fake control board for Murry at Western. That always got me.

But THIS one was the killer. It gave good insight as to Murry's meantal state in the mid-60's:

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/12/all-i-tried-to-do-was-make-you-all.html

[JohnMill]

I have wanted to ask this, and maybe here is an okay place to do so.  Are there not more interviews done with Murry?  I have read a few quotes and things, but nothing overly in depth as far as an interview.  

One of the most revealing ones that I've read to date (unless I forgot something along the way) is the '71 Tom Nolan Rolling Stone article. There's a few Murry quotes in there and a few comments about him from others. The story I still like is when Murry went down to Capitol to seal a contract for the band and Voyle Gilmore (or was it Nick Venet?) made Murry "cool his heels in the foyer" and would routinely hide behind his desk to avoid being seen during Murry's 'visits'.

The other part of that story is one time this same record executive ended up getting stuck under his desk for several hours because Murry refused to leave his office even though he was told and saw for his own two eyes that the record executive (apparently) wasn't there.  This same record executive mentioned that while Murry was in his office, that Murry basically made himself at home and even used his phone to make several phone calls.

[Mike's Beard]

Anyone else notice similarities between Joe Jackson and Murry Wilson?

Joe Jackson was actually worse than Murry. He really did see his son's as his own personal gravy train.

[Mikie]

The other part of that story is one time this same record executive ended up getting stuck under his desk for several hours because Murry refused to leave his office even though he was told and saw for his own two eyes that the record executive (apparently) wasn't there.  This same record executive mentioned that while Murry was in his office, that Murry basically made himself at home and even used his phone to make several phone calls.

It was Venet. But Audree said it wasn't true. She said Venet used to tell some wild stories about the Wilsons. She contended that Murry never used to go to Nick Venet after that first time; that he had no reason to. "Venet told stories that made Murry out to be some kind of monster; he really did", she said. "The main problem was that Venet didn't tell the truth". Carl said Venet was "full of sh*t".

[MBE]

This is probably going to sound very arm-chair psychologist, but I don't think the Wilson's situation was that much different than any other family with at least one abusive parent. A guy like Murry wasn't hitting his kids because he hated them or because he was some kind of a monster; he did it to control them. Even after they were successful adults, Murry tried everything he could to control his sons. You can hear it in the Help Me, Rhonda session, and you can read it in those letters from the Hard Rock Collection. His biggest fear was losing control over them. When he honestly started to believe it was a losing battle, and the boys were too far gone from his influence, he sold the catalog and tried to save himself.

In his own mind, he was a failure and felt like his life was out of his control. He's waiting for his big break as a songwriter, but the Hollywood phonies are ripping him off and keeping him down. He's making a comfortable living and climbing the blue collar latter, but a freak accident debilitates him. But, at home, he's in charge. There's an attentive audience that he can mold however he wants. When the boys are doing well he is their biggest supporter. He talks them up to his friends, and then eventually to record companies and radio stations. When they fall out of line though, he's there to make sure they know what they did wrong and gives them a punishment they won't forget.

Was he helpful? Absolutely. Aside from the obvious reasons he was essential to the band's story, he gave his sons something to strive for and the work ethic to do it. Relationships with abusive parents are really complex, and you see that playing out in each of Brian, Dennis and Carl's different personalities, perspectives and the relationships they had with their dad at the end of his life. It's one of those things that unless you a similar relationship with your parents you probably will never be able to fully understand. In that way, you should consider yourself lucky to have to ask questions like this.

Great post.
Murry and Joe Jackson made their sons what they were. Famous but not particularly happy.