Jardine challenges Love to battle of the bands in explosive interview...

[ontor pertawst]

Nobody gets the numbers they used to. The money is in touring and obviously he likes a bigger slice and total control over new music and collaboration with the friends and family who worked alongside him for half a century to help support all their kids, wives, and hangers on. His right. Maybe he needs to unburden himsel further of attachments in order to fully transcend and levitate. You're a Brianista hashhead if you think otherwise, everybody in the audiences I saw at Irvine and Hollywood last year agree with me.

But the gigs Mr. Stebbins was mentioning for a proposed C50 extension sounded pretty freakin' big, how small a cut was Mike getting if he'd turn those down in favor of casinos? Is it all about the money or is it ego AND money. Is ego money? Find out in today's installment of... THE JARDINE AFFAIR.



Fig 4366. Soaring Towards The Komomo in The Sky

Criswell Predicts time. What are the next sordid tabloid headlines in this saga?

"NOT A COMPETITION," INSISTS JOHNSTON OVER KEBAB
 
BRIAN WILSON "STUNNED" AT REVELATION OF BEING "SHOCKED"

MIKE LOVE FIRES BACK WITH SAVAGE LETTER TO EDITOR AGAINST HIMSELF IN FREAK PRESS MISHAP

[Fall Breaks]

"NOT A COMPETITION," INSISTS JOHNSTON OVER KEBAB
 
BRIAN WILSON "STUNNED" AT REVELATION OF BEING "SHOCKED"

MIKE LOVE FIRES BACK WITH SAVAGE LETTER TO EDITOR AGAINST HIMSELF IN FREAK PRESS MISHAP

[Dunderhead]

Am I the only one who likes Postcard From California (the song)?

[Wirestone]

Better as Rhinestone Cowboy, but a perfectly pleasant tune. Brian recorded on it, but Al didn't use his vocals ...

[The Shift]

It's an interview that will live on in Beach Boys history! Explosive is underselling it. Al threw the gauntlet down.

Al has given much more explosive interviews in the past.

He seems to be laughing throughout this one and is none too serious.

This. I read it as a leg pull. Al's also subtly turned the tables by suggesting that the door's open for Mike to return to the fold, despite the fact that Mike's the one with the band's name and to all intents and purposes therefore, in the eyes of Jimmy Q. Public, IS the fold!

Just good humoured banter in my book, good humoured enough to bring results perhaps.

[Dunderhead]

It's an interview that will live on in Beach Boys history! Explosive is underselling it. Al threw the gauntlet down.

Al has given much more explosive interviews in the past.

He seems to be laughing throughout this one and is none too serious.

Just good humoured banter in my book, good humoured enough to bring results perhaps.

Yes results, exactly, like a battle of the bands maybe

[Dunderhead]

There's blood in the water

[DMBeard_13]

I read this interview with great interest, but where exactly is it "explosive"? 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

On this board.

[TimmyC]

Ugh. I haven't read through the comments, I really can't bear it. It's clear now (to me at least) that Mike was absolutely the problem here. I have never been a Mike basher, but now I'm starting to think that maybe everyone is right. Maybe he really just is a bona fide jerk at the end of the day. It pains me to say that, but that's the conclusion that I draw from reading Al's comments.

[SMiLE Brian]

It's an interview that will live on in Beach Boys history! Explosive is underselling it. Al threw the gauntlet down.

Al has given much more explosive interviews in the past.

He seems to be laughing throughout this one and is none too serious.

Just good humoured banter in my book, good humoured enough to bring results perhaps.

Yes results, exactly, like a battle of the bands maybe

At the place where it all began in the first place, the BBs monument in Hawthorne.

[filledeplage]

I believe Mike and Bruce kept playing corporate dates with their lineup during the C50 tour.

Wirestone - if they played "already contracted for dates" under the "Touring Band" banner, is this a suggestion that they should have "breached the contract" and sullied the BB name," subject to the BRI oversight of shareholders? 

And, if all of this was on the table, when the "C50 event" was negotiated, it was likely a term of agreement among the parties.  It is a complex scenario.  They are always "damned if they do, and damned if they don't." 

[Micha]

I think Mike faced a dilemma. On the one hand, he could go back to the way things were... with Mike Love up front and center, playing comfortable venues with people he likes and riding on the music's past reputation.  On the other hand, he could go forward with the big, new opportunities that were being presented. Opportunities which were, if C50 was any indication,  much more Brian-centric both creatively and personally, and less to his liking. He chose to stay in the comfortable past rather than go forward and explore new things. It's his prerogative, as a performer, to do that. What disappoints me is the fact that he takes the Beach Boys name with him.

Absolutely agree, a well put, balanced opinion.

Odd that people can't accept that Mike torpedoed the group. They could have done more. And he chose not

I don't think there is anybody here who thinks it wasn't Mike who pulled the plug on the reunion. And I don't think either there is anybody here who doesn't regret his choice. I just believe Mike didn't make that choice only because he's plain evil and cold and wants to earn more money and annoy the other guys.

in the midst of all of this, while Mike and Bruce tour as “The Beach Boys”, it seems realistic and appropriate to release another “reunion” album?

Probably that's the plan - in order to do another reunion album they just had to split up again so they can reunite again.

[HeyJude]

I think - and this isn't even close to a new angle: been advanced here before - that if you read between the lines of his comments since 9/28/12, there was something, and a substantial something, about the whole C50 setup that wasn't to Mike's liking and that this feeling grew as the tour progressed, until he thought "enough". You could, were one feeling exceedingly simplistic, sum it up thus:

Band agrees to 50(ish) dates...
Tour is obviously looking good, great reviews...
Band is asked to extend tour 50%...
All agree...
More offers on the table...
Band is asked to extend tour again...
Mike declines, which (apparently) blindsides everyone else as they thought he'd just play along again.

Let's ignore the pre-arranged and well-documented dates, and - if possible, although I realise for some this is an almighty stretch, but let's be adults here for once - lay aside the "because he's an asshole" knee-jerk response... what transpired over the summer to make Mr. Positivity turn down the chance to carry on having a great time and get plaudits for it (for a change) ?  Had to be something substantial, and it's been hinted at in interviews yet remains just out of reach.

I’m not so sure there is strong, clear evidence at our grasp to come to the conclusion that something drastic changed *during* the tour that dictated that Mike didn’t continue with the reunion.

On the contrary, the evidence suggests that Mike more likely planned all along, regardless of how well the reunion went, to return to his old setup of licensing the name for his two-man Beach Boys lineup. If Mike was sticking to the “pre-arranged plan” of going back to his own thing at the end of 2012, then that suggests to me that while any number of things could have unfolded during the reunion tour that may have soured him even more on the idea of more reunion activities, his decision to not extend the reunion was a decision largely made before the reunion began. It appears that Mike agreed to extend the tour once to fill in gaps prior to his first booked show with Bruce, and that was it.

In fact, many of the things that Mike has publicly criticized about the reunion were conditions that existed all along. He knew the nature of the album sessions very early on, that it was largely a Brian-Joe Thomas project with the other BB’s adding vocals. He knew all along, and in fact agreed to, having the large touring backup band. It sounds to me like he stewed on this stuff for the duration of the reunion, perhaps occasionally making allusions to how he felt (e.g. the mid-tour interview where he referenced preferring his lean touring operation and the size of the touring band not being his ideal size, etc.), and then once he got back to what he had planned to do all along, he was a bit more free to make those criticisms about the reunion.

Mike had referenced in more recent interviews to not having a problem if it was “just Brian”, and I can only imagine he is referencing the financial/political/interpersonal machine around Brian as something he (Mike) doesn’t like dealing with. But again, this was something that was known about before the tour began. Further, Mike has his own machine surrounding him that Brian and the others have to “compromise” to deal with. The whole compromise thing works both ways.

Beyond Mike’s stated issues with the reunion setup, I think the other possible reasons are the reasons we all know by process of deduction and elimination. Those are the standard issues of control, ego, finances, and so on. I suppose it’s possible that if Brian had agreed to trim several members from the touring band, lock himself in a room and let Mike write lyrics for his songs, book more shows in “smaller markets”, take less of a percentage of proceeds, and so on, perhaps Mike would have tried to make more reunion activities work. But such a scenario does not paint Mike in a positive light, because the scenario would basically be doing it exactly how Mike wants to, essentially just adding Brian, Al, and David to Mike’s pre-existing operation.

Our evidence at hand, including the likelihood that post-C50 Mike/Bruce dates were booked very early into if not prior to the beginning of the reunion tour, suggests to me that Mike planned all along to go back to his thing, and perhaps he just became less and less willing to not do things his own way as the C50 project progressed. That’s all fine for him to do whatever he wants, but I don’t see any indication that somebody else in the organization did something so heinous that soured Mike and stopped him from continuing the reunion.

[rab2591]

Maybe Mike thought TWGMTR was a good stopping point for them as a creative unit. Perhaps he was sick of dealing with Brian's people while on tour. Perhaps, as HeyJude pointed out, he was uncomfortable with the tour group size. Perhaps he wasn't happy with how they "wrote" material for TWGMTR (and thus didn't want to continue that "collaborative" relationship):

"The unfortunate part was I wasn’t able to get together and write with Brian. It was not to be, even though we had talked earlier about getting together and writing some songs. It just didn’t work out, which is a drag and too bad." -Mike Love

http://www.classicrockhereandnow.com/2013/06/mike-love-interview-beach-boys-headed.html

WHY would Mike want to be apart of making another album if he can't even write a flipping song alongside Brian?

He's being cast as a villain here, but I there's probably more to the story than Mike supposedly being a jackass and "firing" his bandmates.

[SMiLE Brian]

Brian tried to give Mike a backing track to add lyrics to at the rooftop reunion in 2006 and Mike rejected it.

[Micha]

Brian tried to give Mike a backing track to add lyrics to at the rooftop reunion in 2006 and Mike rejected it.

What are you trying to tell us?

[The Heartical Don]

Brian tried to give Mike a backing track to add lyrics to at the rooftop reunion in 2006 and Mike rejected it.

What are you trying to tell us?

That Mike rejected a backing track offered to him by Brian at the 2006 rooftop reunion, I believe.

Hope this helps.

[JohnMill]

We seem to be going round in circles on this one although to be fair, the boys themselves seem to keep bringing the topic round so I guess it's fair game:

rab2591: There is obviously much more to the story than just wide speculation about Mike Love's demeanor and the negativity that has surrounded him since the C50 ended.  The problem is for those who are trying to be sympathetic towards Love is that far and beyond anything else that may have gone down, the most demonstrative act and the one that impacts both the other members of the group and their fans in a negative way is Love's decision not to carry on with the C50.  This decision by Love seems to have been taken on a very personal level by both Brian Wilson and Al Jardine with press releases emanating from that side of the room painting Mike Love in a very negative light.  From a fan's perspective I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of the hardcores that gather here on this forum are none too happy with Love's decision either.  To be frank many of us are dead set bummed out that The Beach Boys are no longer a cohesive unit.

That aside we have all the rumors, speculation and third party reports which may at least give us some insight (if not justify) Mike Love's decision not to carry on with the C50.  One thing that we all need to remember that not carrying on with the C50 from a business perspective was clearly the more risky of the two options.  By carrying on The Beach Boys had an opportunity to make another album for Capitol, opportunities to continue on with their touring activities including playing some venues and bringing their show to people who may have not gotten a chance to see it during the spring/summer of 2012.  They also had the opportunity to elevate their brand in terms of marketing which no doubt could've resulted in better sales for their recent double disc live package, Made In California boxset and back catalog.  That all went away when the C50 activities were stomped.

That being said I agree with AGD that something of a very substantial nature had to have happened to motivate Mike Love to turn all of this down so he could once again embrace the opportunity to tour the circuit with Bruce Johnston and his touring band.  Also AGD's point about Mike Love receiving plaudits (for a change!) shouldn't pass without mention.  Personally I'm not all that convinced that the diehard fanbase's opinion of Love really matters all that much to the man but there was a great amount of good will floating around last year between the band as a whole and the fanbase and given the sour events that have transpired since then now many of us are left with questions such as "Were happy families just being played for a period of one year in order to sell an album and move tickets?"

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Brian tried to give Mike a backing track to add lyrics to at the rooftop reunion in 2006 and Mike rejected it.

What are you trying to tell us?

That Mike rejected a backing track offered to him by Brian at the 2006 rooftop reunion, I believe.

Hope this helps.

[Micha]

Brian tried to give Mike a backing track to add lyrics to at the rooftop reunion in 2006 and Mike rejected it.

What are you trying to tell us?

That Mike rejected a backing track offered to him by Brian at the 2006 rooftop reunion, I believe.

Hope this helps.

[The Heartical Don]

Brian tried to give Mike a backing track to add lyrics to at the rooftop reunion in 2006 and Mike rejected it.

What are you trying to tell us?

That Mike rejected a backing track offered to him by Brian at the 2006 rooftop reunion, I believe.

Hope this helps.

 

[ontor pertawst]

I read this interview with great interest, but where exactly is it "explosive"?  

How many tongue in cheek comments need to be made before some people get that it's tongue in cheek? I realize everybody has a different sense of humor, but clearly I've been kidding around as opposed to using this as an opportunity to rip into forum enemies and rehash the same 2 arguments. Geez, sorry I thought a ridiculous tabloid headline in the style of the ridiculous tabloid headlines about the "firing" concerning Alan was funny and that an offhand contest comment was charming and actually quite doable. On the plus side, I've made like what... 2 threads? 3 tops? Hopefully we can all move forward in a spirit of petulant nitpicking and smug knowitallness and forgive my rare transgression as it is just a jokey thread title. In conclusion: you're all wrong and my Beach Boy can still beat up your Beach Boy.

Is the whole "write with Brian" thing a red herring? Does he actually, REALLY, honestly want to do that? Come down to LA and visit the house every day for weeks? Really? It seems like he's been collaborating this way with Brian from the beginning, right? Taking existing melodies and jotting down lyrics in the studio or on the way there. When other people weren't writing the lyrics, anyway. It seems like it worked fine in the past and it's been how Brian's worked for decades.

 But I could see why he'd be suspicious of Joe Thomas, say. Did he ever say anything about Joe over the past year? Have the words "Joe Thomas" even left his lips with a recording device about? I don't remember any standard tour promotional piece praise for the man.

[HeyJude]

Maybe Mike thought TWGMTR was a good stopping point for them as a creative unit. Perhaps he was sick of dealing with Brian's people while on tour. Perhaps, as HeyJude pointed out, he was uncomfortable with the tour group size. Perhaps he wasn't happy with how they "wrote" material for TWGMTR (and thus didn't want to continue that "collaborative" relationship):

"The unfortunate part was I wasn’t able to get together and write with Brian. It was not to be, even though we had talked earlier about getting together and writing some songs. It just didn’t work out, which is a drag and too bad." -Mike Love

http://www.classicrockhereandnow.com/2013/06/mike-love-interview-beach-boys-headed.html

WHY would Mike want to be apart of making another album if he can't even write a flipping song alongside Brian?

He's being cast as a villain here, but I there's probably more to the story than Mike supposedly being a jackass and "firing" his bandmates.

If Mike really nixed more reunion activities because he wasn’t allowed to get Brian alone in a room and write with him, then that’s just silly. It ignores all sorts of factors, including the fact that that hasn’t happened in any substantial way, as Wirestone pointed out some time back, in literally decades. It also ignores that Mike has put together numerous “Beach Boys” tracks and albums without *any* input from Brian (e.g. “Summer in Paradise”). Brian having Mike add some lyrics to some tracks isn’t the most organic, equal collaboration of course, but at least TWGMTR had some actual compositional input from both Brian and Mike. This all also ignores the fact that, in the eyes of some, Mike hasn’t written a lot of fabulous lyrics lately, in the past few years (or decades). Brian’s writing has been spotty for decades now too, but Brian at his best musically is still a thing to behold.  Wanting to co-write equally with Brian at first sounds like a high-minded, thoughtful, principled idea. But it’s not realistic for so many reasons, and I don’t think the motives behind it are so much high-minded and principled as they are ego-driven and nostalgia-driven.  Mike also hasn’t breathed a word about anything else he feels a second reunion album should have. Nothing about Al or Bruce or David writing, nothing about spreading lead vocals around, nothing at all beyond wanting to write alone with Brian. Even that particular stated condition, of writing with Brian, comes across as a bit self-centered.

Of course, ultimately I don’t believe the co-writing issue had any large impact on halting the reunion. Even Mike’s own words indicate that the co-writing issue was just one of a number of issues he felt some amount of negativity about.  I think the other potential reasons may have weighed more heavily. Making less money, playing fewer shows, having Brian garner so much attention, having to deal with Brian’s camp, having to take input from others on the setlist (even if, by everybody’s account, Mike was the gatekeeper of the setlist, so much so that both Brian and Al referenced having to “ask” Mike to add items to the setlist), having to pay for more musicians, the overall Brian-centric nature of the tour and album, and so on.

[HeyJude]

That being said I agree with AGD that something of a very substantial nature had to have happened to motivate Mike Love to turn all of this down so he could once again embrace the opportunity to tour the circuit with Bruce Johnston and his touring band.  Also AGD's point about Mike Love receiving plaudits (for a change!) shouldn't pass without mention.  Personally I'm not all that convinced that the diehard fanbase's opinion of Love really matters all that much to the man but there was a great amount of good will floating around last year between the band as a whole and the fanbase and given the sour events that have transpired since then now many of us are left with questions such as "Were happy families just being played for a period of one year in order to sell an album and move tickets?"

At first I was also amazed that Mike dispensed with the most good will from fans, the press, and critics that he had garnered in ages. Then I remembered that the evidence to me indicates he cares not one bit about that. That's not a negative or positive necessarily.