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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 220129 times)
rab2591
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« Reply #1575 on: August 28, 2020, 07:39:27 AM »

I agree that NPP is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. However, it could easily have been much better:

Side A:
1. This Beautiful Day
2. On The Island
3. The Right Time
4. Whatever Happened
5. Guess You Had To Be There
6. Tell Me Why

Side B:
1. I'm Feeling Sad
2. Somewhere Quiet
3. Half Moon Bay
4. One Kind of Love
5. Sail Away
6. The Last Song

To me, this puts together the best of the sessions musically, and with some great guest features from Zooey & Kacey. It also works wonderfully as a single LP follow-Up to TWGMTR, and I wish we got something like this for the vinyl version.


I would ditch Half Moon Bay and put Saturday Night on instead.

While I do miss the inclusion of 'Saturday Night' from Freddie's tracklist, I also really like how chill he made the album by taking off the overly pop-sounding songs.

Gonna make that into a playlist.
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« Reply #1576 on: August 28, 2020, 11:15:51 AM »

OK this has been bugging me lately - Mike made a big mistake on the chorus lyrics to Good Vibrations.  "I'm pickin' up good vibrations, she's giving me THE excitations!"  First line has 8 syllables, the second nine, and the "THE" sticks out like a sore thumb.  It doesn't even make sense - what's wrong with she's giving me excitations?  What are "THE" excitations?  So on probably the biggest song in their career, Mike blew the lyrics.  No wonder Brian wanted Van Dyke to do them after he'd promised them to Mike.

And in the second verse they just forget to sing some words so there is just instrument for a few beats! Shabby work by the guys on this song.
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« Reply #1577 on: August 28, 2020, 01:50:18 PM »

OK this has been bugging me lately - Mike made a big mistake on the chorus lyrics to Good Vibrations.  "I'm pickin' up good vibrations, she's giving me THE excitations!"  First line has 8 syllables, the second nine, and the "THE" sticks out like a sore thumb.  It doesn't even make sense - what's wrong with she's giving me excitations?  What are "THE" excitations?  So on probably the biggest song in their career, Mike blew the lyrics.  No wonder Brian wanted Van Dyke to do them after he'd promised them to Mike.

I never noticed the “the “ before! Holy sh*t...25 years of being a fan and I just learned something most people knew 🤣
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« Reply #1578 on: August 28, 2020, 03:08:42 PM »

OK this has been bugging me lately - Mike made a big mistake on the chorus lyrics to Good Vibrations.  "I'm pickin' up good vibrations, she's giving me THE excitations!"  First line has 8 syllables, the second nine, and the "THE" sticks out like a sore thumb.  It doesn't even make sense - what's wrong with she's giving me excitations?  What are "THE" excitations?  So on probably the biggest song in their career, Mike blew the lyrics.  No wonder Brian wanted Van Dyke to do them after he'd promised them to Mike.

I REALLY hope this is a joke, but...

Sing "she's giving me excitations" to yourself, it sounds terrible. It's a vowel into a vowel. The 'the' pickup note gives it some swing, Mike knew what he was doing.
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« Reply #1579 on: August 28, 2020, 06:50:21 PM »

Yeah, the "the" also doesn't ruin the flow at all, because it's barely audible during the beat that comes between "up" and "good" in the first line.
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« Reply #1580 on: August 28, 2020, 07:10:24 PM »

OK this has been bugging me lately - Mike made a big mistake on the chorus lyrics to Good Vibrations.  "I'm pickin' up good vibrations, she's giving me THE excitations!"  First line has 8 syllables, the second nine, and the "THE" sticks out like a sore thumb.  It doesn't even make sense - what's wrong with she's giving me excitations?  What are "THE" excitations?  So on probably the biggest song in their career, Mike blew the lyrics.  No wonder Brian wanted Van Dyke to do them after he'd promised them to Mike.

I REALLY hope this is a joke, but...

Sing "she's giving me excitations" to yourself, it sounds terrible. It's a vowel into a vowel. The 'the' pickup note gives it some swing, Mike knew what he was doing.

Yeah, same rhythm twice is too square and sound stupid. 'She's givin me the excitations' has a bit of extra syncopation and groove to it which is a good thing. The 'the' has always been perfectly audible to me.
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« Reply #1581 on: August 29, 2020, 10:11:23 PM »

I’m probably in the extreme minority here:
Surfin Safari to Pet Sounds is entirely comprised of masterpieces. Every album - warts and all - is, to me, a masterpiece.
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« Reply #1582 on: August 30, 2020, 09:09:43 AM »

OK this has been bugging me lately - Mike made a big mistake on the chorus lyrics to Good Vibrations.  "I'm pickin' up good vibrations, she's giving me THE excitations!"  First line has 8 syllables, the second nine, and the "THE" sticks out like a sore thumb.  It doesn't even make sense - what's wrong with she's giving me excitations?  What are "THE" excitations?  So on probably the biggest song in their career, Mike blew the lyrics.  No wonder Brian wanted Van Dyke to do them after he'd promised them to Mike.

I REALLY hope this is a joke, but...

Sing "she's giving me excitations" to yourself, it sounds terrible. It's a vowel into a vowel. The 'the' pickup note gives it some swing, Mike knew what he was doing.

Uh, the excitations” is also a vowel into a vowel.  And  “me excitations”sounds fine, as countless crowds of fans at their concert know as this is what they sing when they sing along.
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« Reply #1583 on: August 30, 2020, 10:28:03 AM »

OK this has been bugging me lately - Mike made a big mistake on the chorus lyrics to Good Vibrations.  "I'm pickin' up good vibrations, she's giving me THE excitations!"  First line has 8 syllables, the second nine, and the "THE" sticks out like a sore thumb.  It doesn't even make sense - what's wrong with she's giving me excitations?  What are "THE" excitations?  So on probably the biggest song in their career, Mike blew the lyrics.  No wonder Brian wanted Van Dyke to do them after he'd promised them to Mike.

I REALLY hope this is a joke, but...

Sing "she's giving me excitations" to yourself, it sounds terrible. It's a vowel into a vowel. The 'the' pickup note gives it some swing, Mike knew what he was doing.

Uh, the excitations” is also a vowel into a vowel.  And  “me excitations”sounds fine, as countless crowds of fans at their concert know as this is what they sing when they sing along.

If you really want to go into it on a stupid granular level, "me" into "the" breaks it up with another eighth note subdivision (completing "giv-ing-me-[blank]") so there isn't a weird hard pause between an 'e' and an 'eh', or a weird elongated 'meeeEH'. All I can say about fans if they're really singing along like that is they have rubbish musical instincts, lol.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 10:32:12 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
Tom
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« Reply #1584 on: August 31, 2020, 05:03:08 AM »

'Well if it's good enough for the non-musical masses' is not really an argument here. Go to a concert and watch how many people clap along on the downbeat (i.e. 1 and 3). If Mike and Brian thought 'giving me excitations' was superior, they would've recorded it that way.

To give Mike some credit here, his musical intuition obviously kicked in and told him the second iteration of the hook needed some variation to make things more interesting - he was clearly correct.

I'm honestly puzzled - it's kind of weird to argue that a #1 single could've been better in an imaginary alternative version where the chorus melody was simplified to have less eighth notes subdivisions. Rhythm is the main thing that makes a melody 'hooky' and memorable - as a general rule, a healthy amount of syncopation makes a melody more catchy. It's like suggesting that the opening line of 'Wouldn't it Be Nice' should have been unsyncopated in order to better match the repetition that occurs midway through the verse.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 05:37:16 AM by Tom » Logged
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« Reply #1585 on: September 06, 2020, 11:59:06 PM »

One quick comment: people might believe Brian really cared about the NPP songs (and other recent solo stuff) if he had continued to play them in his concerts. Instead, it comes across like "okay, I know I'm supposed to record some new music occasionally so I don't get labeled as an oldies act, so we're going to play a couple new songs....you might want to run to the restroom now cause we'll get back to playing the hits in a few minutes".
(okay, i'm gonna run and duck for cover)  Shocked Shocked
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« Reply #1586 on: September 07, 2020, 09:28:49 AM »

One quick comment: people might believe Brian really cared about the NPP songs (and other recent solo stuff) if he had continued to play them in his concerts. Instead, it comes across like "okay, I know I'm supposed to record some new music occasionally so I don't get labeled as an oldies act, so we're going to play a couple new songs....you might want to run to the restroom now cause we'll get back to playing the hits in a few minutes".
(okay, i'm gonna run and duck for cover)  Shocked Shocked

I very much miss the inclusion of 'Sail Away' in the setlist and would love for it to be included again...that was a real gem to hear in concert. Part of me realizes that they have seats to fill and they probably know they're not going to fill them by playing Brian's solo stuff - and while I absolutely would love to hear 'Sail Away' again, my favorite part of the concert will always be the tail end 5 Beach Boys songs that rock the house. They probably know the biggest draw to seeing Brian in concert is The Beach Boys material.

Given the recent Nate Ruess story, and other stories regarding the recording of NPP, I am completely convinced that Brian did care a lot about that album...regardless of them not playing any NPP songs in years.

On another note, I wish that Brian and VDPs would do a small tour together. VDP's Live At The Ashgrove is one of my favorite albums - VDPs can really put on a show, and he has a charming and wonderful voice. Would love to hear them do some songs from OCA together with an orchestra, and some TLOS songs where VDPs can read the narratives he wrote, and sprinkle in some SMiLE songs, Sail on Sailor.
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« Reply #1587 on: September 10, 2020, 11:00:28 AM »

Since there's been a lot of talk about the Surf's Up album recently, I've been listening to it more. I used to really dislike 'Student Demonstration Time', but lately I've really been digging the song - the guitar work is excellent, I really like the drumming, production is fantastic. I actually think SDT fits pretty well on that album.
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« Reply #1588 on: September 10, 2020, 11:48:04 AM »

At the time that the album came out, Student Demonstration Time was impressive because it showed that The Beach Boys could ROCK!  That was a time when the “cool” people were still dismissing the band as sort of a wimpy vocal group.  SDT showed a heavier side to the group. And yes, I like it!
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« Reply #1589 on: September 10, 2020, 03:26:41 PM »

M&B 2020 deep cut! Evil
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« Reply #1590 on: September 10, 2020, 08:56:42 PM »

M&B 2020 deep cut! Evil

 LOL LOL LOL Yeah, as in way over their heads!!
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« Reply #1591 on: September 10, 2020, 09:03:46 PM »

One quick comment: people might believe Brian really cared about the NPP songs (and other recent solo stuff) if he had continued to play them in his concerts. Instead, it comes across like "okay, I know I'm supposed to record some new music occasionally so I don't get labeled as an oldies act, so we're going to play a couple new songs....you might want to run to the restroom now cause we'll get back to playing the hits in a few minutes".
(okay, i'm gonna run and duck for cover)  Shocked Shocked

I very much miss the inclusion of 'Sail Away' in the setlist and would love for it to be included again...that was a real gem to hear in concert. Part of me realizes that they have seats to fill and they probably know they're not going to fill them by playing Brian's solo stuff - and while I absolutely would love to hear 'Sail Away' again, my favorite part of the concert will always be the tail end 5 Beach Boys songs that rock the house. They probably know the biggest draw to seeing Brian in concert is The Beach Boys material.

Given the recent Nate Ruess story, and other stories regarding the recording of NPP, I am completely convinced that Brian did care a lot about that album...regardless of them not playing any NPP songs in years.

On another note, I wish that Brian and VDPs would do a small tour together. VDP's Live At The Ashgrove is one of my favorite albums - VDPs can really put on a show, and he has a charming and wonderful voice. Would love to hear them do some songs from OCA together with an orchestra, and some TLOS songs where VDPs can read the narratives he wrote, and sprinkle in some SMiLE songs, Sail on Sailor.
I think Brian could include half a dozen of his solo songs in his show and not have to worry about it hurting ticket sales. Not every song in the song has to be a "get them on their feel clapping and stamping their feet" song; it's okay to have some quieter moments in a show.
There was some talk back in 1995 - by Van Dyke - of doing some concerts featuring OCA material, along with some of the other songs they had collaborated on - Heroes and Villains was mentioned. That would have made for a very nice evening of music, with Van Dyke telling some of the stories behind the songs. Today, I'm not even thinking about concerts; not until this evil covid virus is dead and gone.
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« Reply #1592 on: September 15, 2020, 07:41:31 AM »

I've grown to develop a fondness for Sumahama - not the Beach Boys version, but the cut done by Mike Love for his unreleased First Love album. Yeah, it's cheesy to all hell just as the Beach Boys version is - but I like not hearing Mike singing in phonetic Japanese and prefer the faster tempo of this solo version. For me at least, it definitely feels like listening to a track from a bygone era
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rab2591
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« Reply #1593 on: September 15, 2020, 08:09:10 AM »

One quick comment: people might believe Brian really cared about the NPP songs (and other recent solo stuff) if he had continued to play them in his concerts. Instead, it comes across like "okay, I know I'm supposed to record some new music occasionally so I don't get labeled as an oldies act, so we're going to play a couple new songs....you might want to run to the restroom now cause we'll get back to playing the hits in a few minutes".
(okay, i'm gonna run and duck for cover)  Shocked Shocked

I very much miss the inclusion of 'Sail Away' in the setlist and would love for it to be included again...that was a real gem to hear in concert. Part of me realizes that they have seats to fill and they probably know they're not going to fill them by playing Brian's solo stuff - and while I absolutely would love to hear 'Sail Away' again, my favorite part of the concert will always be the tail end 5 Beach Boys songs that rock the house. They probably know the biggest draw to seeing Brian in concert is The Beach Boys material.

Given the recent Nate Ruess story, and other stories regarding the recording of NPP, I am completely convinced that Brian did care a lot about that album...regardless of them not playing any NPP songs in years.

On another note, I wish that Brian and VDPs would do a small tour together. VDP's Live At The Ashgrove is one of my favorite albums - VDPs can really put on a show, and he has a charming and wonderful voice. Would love to hear them do some songs from OCA together with an orchestra, and some TLOS songs where VDPs can read the narratives he wrote, and sprinkle in some SMiLE songs, Sail on Sailor.
I think Brian could include half a dozen of his solo songs in his show and not have to worry about it hurting ticket sales. Not every song in the song has to be a "get them on their feel clapping and stamping their feet" song; it's okay to have some quieter moments in a show.
There was some talk back in 1995 - by Van Dyke - of doing some concerts featuring OCA material, along with some of the other songs they had collaborated on - Heroes and Villains was mentioned. That would have made for a very nice evening of music, with Van Dyke telling some of the stories behind the songs. Today, I'm not even thinking about concerts; not until this evil covid virus is dead and gone.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I wouldn't mind hearing 'Desert Drive', 'Lay Down Burden', and other solo tunes from over the years in his shows. Part of me wonders if Brian likes to think of his band as The Beach Boys...as in, if he can't currently be one of touring Beach Boys he can at least emulate them. Perhaps that would explain the BB heavy setlists over the decades of him being a solo act.

Thanks for that info about VDPs...it would be nice if, after Covid goes away, VDPs would want to celebrate the OCA anniversary by doing some of those concerts, 25 years after the initial idea.
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« Reply #1594 on: September 15, 2020, 11:22:45 AM »

One quick comment: people might believe Brian really cared about the NPP songs (and other recent solo stuff) if he had continued to play them in his concerts. Instead, it comes across like "okay, I know I'm supposed to record some new music occasionally so I don't get labeled as an oldies act, so we're going to play a couple new songs....you might want to run to the restroom now cause we'll get back to playing the hits in a few minutes".
(okay, i'm gonna run and duck for cover)  Shocked Shocked

I very much miss the inclusion of 'Sail Away' in the setlist and would love for it to be included again...that was a real gem to hear in concert. Part of me realizes that they have seats to fill and they probably know they're not going to fill them by playing Brian's solo stuff - and while I absolutely would love to hear 'Sail Away' again, my favorite part of the concert will always be the tail end 5 Beach Boys songs that rock the house. They probably know the biggest draw to seeing Brian in concert is The Beach Boys material.

Given the recent Nate Ruess story, and other stories regarding the recording of NPP, I am completely convinced that Brian did care a lot about that album...regardless of them not playing any NPP songs in years.

On another note, I wish that Brian and VDPs would do a small tour together. VDP's Live At The Ashgrove is one of my favorite albums - VDPs can really put on a show, and he has a charming and wonderful voice. Would love to hear them do some songs from OCA together with an orchestra, and some TLOS songs where VDPs can read the narratives he wrote, and sprinkle in some SMiLE songs, Sail on Sailor.
I think Brian could include half a dozen of his solo songs in his show and not have to worry about it hurting ticket sales. Not every song in the song has to be a "get them on their feel clapping and stamping their feet" song; it's okay to have some quieter moments in a show.
There was some talk back in 1995 - by Van Dyke - of doing some concerts featuring OCA material, along with some of the other songs they had collaborated on - Heroes and Villains was mentioned. That would have made for a very nice evening of music, with Van Dyke telling some of the stories behind the songs. Today, I'm not even thinking about concerts; not until this evil covid virus is dead and gone.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I wouldn't mind hearing 'Desert Drive', 'Lay Down Burden', and other solo tunes from over the years in his shows. Part of me wonders if Brian likes to think of his band as The Beach Boys...as in, if he can't currently be one of touring Beach Boys he can at least emulate them. Perhaps that would explain the BB heavy setlists over the decades of him being a solo act.

Thanks for that info about VDPs...it would be nice if, after Covid goes away, VDPs would want to celebrate the OCA anniversary by doing some of those concerts, 25 years after the initial idea.

Rab, if this makes any sense at all, I tend to believe that Brian and his incredible band ARE The Beach Boys far more than the Mike Love led incarnation. 
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« Reply #1595 on: September 15, 2020, 11:56:29 AM »

Rab, if this makes any sense at all, I tend to believe that Brian and his incredible band ARE The Beach Boys far more than the Mike Love led incarnation. 

In the words of Dennis: "Brian is the Beach Boys"

When I go see Brian in concert I pretty much think of them as The Beach Boys. I mean, it's Brian, Al, and Blondie there with one of the most talented backing bands of all time...and they primarily do Beach Boys songs.
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« Reply #1596 on: September 16, 2020, 11:18:22 AM »

I still haven't been able to unlock the magic of "Love You"; I like the "drawn with crayons" analogy, but it hasn't clicked yet--it just sounds floundering and depressing, much like "15 Big Ones".

However, that said: I DO like "I Bet He's Nice", "The Night Was So Young", and especially (gasp) "I Wanna Pick You Up".

(I would toss "Adult/Child" into that same bucket, with a similar exception: I ALSO like "Still I Dream Of It", weird lyrics and all.)

There, I did it: unpopular opinions!)
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« Reply #1597 on: September 17, 2020, 02:16:45 PM »

There are great compositions on "Love You" (well, maybe not "Mona", but most of the rest). It's not difficult to understand why some folks don't like the arrangements and production.

And it isn't just because it's "different" or "homegrown" or out of Brian's head. I mean, those are all true and are reasons to enjoy the album. But the album's arrangement is certainly light on many of the hallmarks of a "rock band"; the bass and drums are sparse, and there isn't a lot of guitar on the album (though the stuff that is there is tasty guitar work if you listen and/or have alternate mixes).

While it would remove much of the charm of "Love You", it would have been interesting to hear Brian's "MIU" voice sing those "Love You" songs, perhaps with the more robust (if also kind of homogeneous) MIU Album production sound.
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« Reply #1598 on: September 18, 2020, 03:01:42 AM »

I agree that NPP is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. However, it could easily have been much better:

Side A:
1. This Beautiful Day
2. On The Island
3. The Right Time
4. Whatever Happened
5. Guess You Had To Be There
6. Tell Me Why

Side B:
1. I'm Feeling Sad
2. Somewhere Quiet
3. Half Moon Bay
4. One Kind of Love
5. Sail Away
6. The Last Song

To me, this puts together the best of the sessions musically, and with some great guest features from Zooey & Kacey. It also works wonderfully as a single LP follow-Up to TWGMTR, and I wish we got something like this for the vinyl version.


I would ditch Half Moon Bay and put Saturday Night on instead.

While I do miss the inclusion of 'Saturday Night' from Freddie's tracklist, I also really like how chill he made the album by taking off the overly pop-sounding songs.

Gonna make that into a playlist.
I agree that Saturday Night is a fun track for sure, and I can understand slipping it in to side 2 instead of either Somewhere Quiet or Half Moon Bay, but this does make for a very chilled LP for sure, and I do adore consistency. Having the poppier tracks as an EP around the same time would be a fun bonus for me.
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« Reply #1599 on: September 18, 2020, 03:06:04 AM »

As much as I love Love You...I love all the unreleased and Adult Child songs even more. Everybody wants to live just once happens to be one of my favorite unreleased songs
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If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





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