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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 95961 times)
rab2591
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« Reply #1275 on: April 11, 2017, 07:14:09 AM »

Posting in the "December 1964 event" thread just reminded me of an unpopular opinion that I have.  Although I enjoy it, a wide swath of the Biopic is complete horse apples. 

As in, you don't like it, or you feel it's inaccurate? If the latter, what do you feel is inaccurate?

The thing I learned after "Love & Mercy" came out is how many BB fans seemingly otherwise never go to the movies or see films. "Love & Mercy" is a film first, not a project made to service fans. It's also not a "biopic" in the traditional sense. That it *didn't* go down the path of "Deadman's Curve" (to name another item being discussed presently on the board) or "Backbeat" or "Birth of the Beatles" or "The Buddy Holly Story" or either of the two previous Beach Boys ABC TV movies is a miracle.

THIS.

Quote
The thing I learned after "Love & Mercy" came out is how many BB fans seemingly otherwise never go to the movies or see films.

The people behind this film are some of the most successful when it comes to artistic films. Christ, just listen to that soundtrack! That soundtrack is a good mirror of what the actual film is supposed to be: It's not meant to 1000% accurately represent Brian Wilson - the film is meant to be an artistic collage that draws from actual events whilst putting a bit of artistic flavor in some spots...all in an attempt to help the average person, in an hour and 30 minutes, come to understand the tortured genius of Brian Wilson. For the same reason Atticus Ross made the music sound like it was flying through the mind of Brian Wilson, the filmmakers decided to shift some moments in time and make flowers bud at an abnormally high rate of speed when Brian was tripping on acid. It's a gorgeous painting, it's not meant to be a high definition 1355 megapixel accurate snapshot of the early and mid life of Brian Wilson.

Side note: People have said they would've loved to have seen this be a miniseries. And I have made that comment too. But the reality is that to pack that emotional punch during the bedroom montage you kinda have to constrain all of this into less than 2 hours. And in order to reach the most amount of people you kinda have to make a movie. It's like Band of Brother's versus Saving Private Ryan. I almost prefer BoB over SPR: the scope of BoB is incredible and nearly everything is perfect about that miniseries. But SPR packs such an emotional punch that I think it's better than BoB for that reason. Also, so many people were exposed to the horrors of war thanks to SPR, whereas BoB was limited viewing to so many people due to it only being an HBO show at the time of release. Thus as much as I would want a miniseries done in this style, I think the producers did the right thing by making a movie out of the story. As this paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the original statement, I'll leave it at that.

Back to the topic at hand, accuracy depends on who is telling you what is accurate. If you got a PM with information about sections of Love and Mercy being bullshit, perhaps do your own research and don't trust at face value what you were told. A lot of bullshit out there; best to research and delve, ask around, etc. You'd be surprised how full of sh*t some people are in this fandom.
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« Reply #1276 on: April 11, 2017, 08:07:00 AM »

 w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #1277 on: April 11, 2017, 08:52:38 AM »

Mine:  

I absolutely love the song Keepin the Summer Alive.  
I quite enjoy the disco HCTN.  Maybe it has something to do with not having had to live through the disco era (or at least, be old enough to grasp it).  
Dennis is not the sexy Beach Boy.  That honour belongs to Carl.  


I agree with all of them.
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« Reply #1278 on: April 11, 2017, 09:38:35 AM »

I like Brian's vocals in the late 60s- early 70s way more than the "golden period", and sometimes I'd rather hear the later 70s voice. His falsetto was beautiful, but I think he relied on it too much and had a very nice tone in his more natural voice.

I like Looking Back with Love more than Imagination. A lot more, actually.

I like Sweet Insanity more than Imagination.

I like Love You, but Adult Child blows it out of the water.

SIP may be trash, but Lahaina Aloha was a great song and should've been a single.
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« Reply #1279 on: April 11, 2017, 10:29:56 AM »

Insert sixteen paragraph filelplage rant about SIP here.... Wink
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #1280 on: April 11, 2017, 11:04:08 AM »

Not today, man...
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« Reply #1281 on: April 11, 2017, 11:32:29 AM »

Pretty sad that people can't enjoyed a romantized story based on a real one, the people who made this are filmmakers, the people who plays in it wants to make entertaining movies, the people who wants to see this wants to see a good moving movie in the end, not a freaking wikipedia fact check, jesus
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« Reply #1282 on: April 11, 2017, 03:48:49 PM »

Posting in the "December 1964 event" thread just reminded me of an unpopular opinion that I have.  Although I enjoy it, a wide swath of the Biopic is complete horse apples. 

As in, you don't like it, or you feel it's inaccurate? If the latter, what do you feel is inaccurate?

The thing I learned after "Love & Mercy" came out is how many BB fans seemingly otherwise never go to the movies or see films. "Love & Mercy" is a film first, not a project made to service fans. It's also not a "biopic" in the traditional sense. That it *didn't* go down the path of "Deadman's Curve" (to name another item being discussed presently on the board) or "Backbeat" or "Birth of the Beatles" or "The Buddy Holly Story" or either of the two previous Beach Boys ABC TV movies is a miracle.

THIS.

Quote
The thing I learned after "Love & Mercy" came out is how many BB fans seemingly otherwise never go to the movies or see films.

The people behind this film are some of the most successful when it comes to artistic films. Christ, just listen to that soundtrack! That soundtrack is a good mirror of what the actual film is supposed to be: It's not meant to 1000% accurately represent Brian Wilson - the film is meant to be an artistic collage that draws from actual events whilst putting a bit of artistic flavor in some spots...all in an attempt to help the average person, in an hour and 30 minutes, come to understand the tortured genius of Brian Wilson. For the same reason Atticus Ross made the music sound like it was flying through the mind of Brian Wilson, the filmmakers decided to shift some moments in time and make flowers bud at an abnormally high rate of speed when Brian was tripping on acid. It's a gorgeous painting, it's not meant to be a high definition 1355 megapixel accurate snapshot of the early and mid life of Brian Wilson.

Side note: People have said they would've loved to have seen this be a miniseries. And I have made that comment too. But the reality is that to pack that emotional punch during the bedroom montage you kinda have to constrain all of this into less than 2 hours. And in order to reach the most amount of people you kinda have to make a movie. It's like Band of Brother's versus Saving Private Ryan. I almost prefer BoB over SPR: the scope of BoB is incredible and nearly everything is perfect about that miniseries. But SPR packs such an emotional punch that I think it's better than BoB for that reason. Also, so many people were exposed to the horrors of war thanks to SPR, whereas BoB was limited viewing to so many people due to it only being an HBO show at the time of release. Thus as much as I would want a miniseries done in this style, I think the producers did the right thing by making a movie out of the story. As this paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the original statement, I'll leave it at that.

Back to the topic at hand, accuracy depends on who is telling you what is accurate. If you got a PM with information about sections of Love and Mercy being bullshit, perhaps do your own research and don't trust at face value what you were told. A lot of bullshit out there; best to research and delve, ask around, etc. You'd be surprised how full of sh*t some people are in this fandom.

To Hey Jude- I definitely enjoyed it! 

To Hey Jude and Rab- I realize that it is a biopic.  It is dramatized and I am not one of those people that gets bothered by nitpicky inaccuracies in biopics.  And EL & ML don't deserve any defending, the universe gave them what they probably deserved in this movie, embellishment or not.  What fuels my Unpopular Opinion I think is more than a "nitpicky inaccuracy".  Melinda is portrayed as the hero that intervened and saved Brian, who often is portrayed as a helpless victim of his circumstances.  That is one of the central themes of the movie.  It is actually really interesting in that it is reversing the script of countless biopics about women.  But, it is a big thing to have just (allegedly, based on what I have read) made up and millions of people are going to think that is actually how it really was, because they think that biographical film must at least be accurate in the big things.   

To Ziggy Stardust- Pretty sad that you can't readed a post on a message board that says "I enjoy it", jesus
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« Reply #1283 on: April 11, 2017, 06:06:39 PM »

Melinda did save Brian, Ray Lawlor confirmed here it's accurate. Brian went to various showings & didn't say anything about it to be inaccurate. I'm sure he would if it was. & btw, Gloria is still their friend, as well as credits didn't forget Carl. So nobody's unfairly mistreated in regards Landy events.
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« Reply #1284 on: April 11, 2017, 08:26:51 PM »

Melinda did save Brian, Ray Lawlor confirmed here it's accurate. Brian went to various showings & didn't say anything about it to be inaccurate. I'm sure he would if it was. & btw, Gloria is still their friend, as well as credits didn't forget Carl. So nobody's unfairly mistreated in regards Landy events.

You are right on the money. ..well said
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« Reply #1285 on: April 12, 2017, 04:32:03 AM »

Melinda did save Brian, Ray Lawlor confirmed here it's accurate. Brian went to various showings & didn't say anything about it to be inaccurate. I'm sure he would if it was. & btw, Gloria is still their friend, as well as credits didn't forget Carl. So nobody's unfairly mistreated in regards Landy events.

I mean, what do I know, I'm not a BB historian nor do I know anybody in that circle personally.  But it happening that way doesn't really fit the timeline of what we know for sure about that era, and people who are actually BB historians have said that it happened differently. 
And my point was never about unfair mistreatment, just about the accuracy of the main plot of the movie.
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« Reply #1286 on: April 12, 2017, 05:14:56 AM »

What you read in books is myth. The info is old. L&M debunks it, showing Melinda's role in dumping Landy. For years it was either Gloria & or Carl/ family. Her name was kept out & the film depicts what really happened. Besides, we talk about BBs historians who've got their biases vs. Ray Lawlor, Brian's friend who witnessed those events. You might say he is biased too but Melinda isn't his wife, so technically or some such, she's 2ndary to him. He was/is closer to Brian.
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« Reply #1287 on: April 12, 2017, 07:42:38 AM »

Rangerover is 100% on the money. The "historian" if you mean AGD sending you PMs is not valid information.
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #1288 on: April 12, 2017, 11:30:07 AM »

And to be fair, I think some fans could be forgiven for not knowing the extent of Melinda's involvement in the Landy extraction. Ray Lawlor's recounting on this board was revelatory. But it hadn't been published before, and to this day that particular recounting resides only on a message board buried deep in a large thread.

The L&M movie subsequently also depicted Melinda's involvement, but through no fault of the movie (whose quality is a small miracle; it's truly a good *film* first and foremost), they only had so much time and didn't get into the nuts and bolts the way even Ray's post was able to.

I haven't been reading Brian's book lately, but I'm guessing Brian's recent book would be the only other place where Melinda's role would be expanded upon.

If someone had not been familiar with Ray's post, I wouldn't fault them for at least being skeptical going into the L&M film (and skeptical doesn't mean insulting Melinda or assuming the worst) that a film might glorify her position in the saga. If anything, the film ultimately still *downplays* her key role in the saga in terms of some of the nuts and bolts, simply because it has a limited amount of time to cover everything.
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« Reply #1289 on: April 13, 2017, 10:28:52 AM »

I like Brian's vocals in the late 60s- early 70s way more than the "golden period", and sometimes I'd rather hear the later 70s voice. His falsetto was beautiful, but I think he relied on it too much and had a very nice tone in his more natural voice.

I like Looking Back with Love more than Imagination. A lot more, actually.

I like Sweet Insanity more than Imagination.

I like Love You, but Adult Child blows it out of the water.

SIP may be trash, but Lahaina Aloha was a great song and should've been a single.

That was my thought the first time I heard the album when I bought it back in the day.
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« Reply #1290 on: April 13, 2017, 01:15:21 PM »

I think Imagination is one of Brians best solo albums?

I agree on Aloha, always loved that one since first listen, mostly due to Carls chorus, production still ruins it, but would have made good single indeed.
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« Reply #1291 on: April 14, 2017, 06:34:31 AM »

It's interesting with the SIP album that for me (and I think some other fans), the issues we had with the album back when it came out in the early 90s had more to do with the songs and lyrics rather than specifically the production. Now listening back to it, the same issues are present when it comes to the actual songs and lyrics, but the album's production sounds even worse 25 years later.

SIP might just be the worst *sounding* BB album as far as production. BB '85 sounds far better in comparison. I'm sure part of SIP's problems is the early "beta" testing of ProTools and the limited resolution and harsh early computer-based digital recording sound. But it's also rife with horrible fake drum sounds. The harshness of the recording medium also lead to very shrill, choked-out group vocal sounds as well.

I'm curious if Terry Melcher was beta testing ProTools simply because he wanted to noodle around with new technology, or if there was some sort of cost/convenience factor at play as far as being able to hash the tracks out with Mike and not pay top dollar at a major studio to do the work.

I'd love to hear versions of "Strange Things Happen" and "Lahaina Aloha" with re-recorded )real!) drums and vastly remixed. I'm sure some of the harsh sound is baked into the original recordings, but new drums and a remix would help. Those two are the only tracks that would really be worth saving. A few others have a few okay moments, but not much else.

Of course, as has occasionally been speculated, it's quite possible those early-era ProTools digital files don't exist anymore, and/or would not be usable. I'm curious if Melcher saved the multi-tracks to a more stabile physical digital format.
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« Reply #1292 on: April 14, 2017, 06:38:06 AM »


Of course, as has occasionally been speculated, it's quite possible those early-era ProTools digital files don't exist anymore, and/or would not be usable. I'm curious if Melcher saved the multi-tracks to a more stabile physical digital format.

Not to derail the thread, but quickly, that's why engineer/producer Steve Albini talks a lot about insisting on providing physical tape masters to any artists he works with: he talks about while we consider digital products to be permanent, both hardware and software actually change relatively quickly (and can be hard to recover over time), whereas tape lasts at least decades (if well preserved) and tape machines can always be repaired or recreated, at least.
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« Reply #1293 on: April 14, 2017, 03:10:53 PM »

To Ziggy Stardust- Pretty sad that you can't readed a post on a message board that says "I enjoy it", jesus

I think it's more sad you have to take it personally.
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« Reply #1294 on: October 07, 2017, 11:10:40 PM »

I like Adrian Baker's BBs medley. If he stayed with touring band, their blend would be better than it's with Jeff. Adrian's better falsetto singer, I generally like his voice.  Jeff's good singer but when he sings falsetto, it ruins BBs songs.
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« Reply #1295 on: October 10, 2017, 11:36:16 AM »

Unpopular opinion: Murry Wilson was a dick, BUT we and the boys also have hell of a lot to thank him for. Maybe everything. He really did great job getting the band off the ground. He could have skipped the crazy beatings, but still I can't hate him as much as many here do.
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« Reply #1296 on: October 10, 2017, 11:46:57 AM »

Unpopular opinion: Murry Wilson was a dick, BUT we and the boys also have hell of a lot to thank him for. Maybe everything. He really did great job getting the band off the ground. He could have skipped the crazy beatings, but still I can't hate him as much as many here do.

Agreed. I find it highly unlikely the Beach Boys would have happened without Murry running interference.  For that he has my eternal gratitude.
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« Reply #1297 on: October 10, 2017, 11:47:28 AM »

Unpopular opinion: Murry Wilson was a dick, BUT we and the boys also have hell of a lot to thank him for. Maybe everything. He really did great job getting the band off the ground. He could have skipped the crazy beatings, but still I can't hate him as much as many here do.

I don't think that's really an unpopular opinion. I haven't met a fan who wouldn't acknowledge what Murry *did* do for the band. Even Brian and his brothers have acknowledged this. I think all of the BBs in fact.
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