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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 100221 times)
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« Reply #1250 on: January 17, 2017, 06:42:00 AM »

While enjoying both bio's from last year, I'm learning more about the band from Mikes than Brian's.

I'm curious what that would be, I didn't see much band-related that I had not read or heard before in Mike's book, and some of it which was reported was a little shaky. One thing that I liked better about Brian's book was it filled in some of the missing years and periods of time that fans had been asking for, specifically the time from roughly 2000 to the present day, the "solo years" where books like Carlin's left off. I didn't go into Brian's book expecting a dissertation on Beach Boys history and spewing facts-figures that have already been noted. I also didn't expect so much quoting of data in Mike's book.
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« Reply #1251 on: January 17, 2017, 06:54:07 AM »

On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

Compared to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdeVu5mnTxU  I prefer Matt.

 
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« Reply #1252 on: January 17, 2017, 07:56:33 AM »

Let me start by saying how much I love Al Jardine and his contributions , He is also a genuinely nice person. But I feel his presence made the band look less hip, the stripes shirts were inspired by the Kingston Trio in which Al was a big fan of and I assume is responsible for.  His vocals remind me of the fact that he was going to be a dentist i.e. not good. David Marks on the other hand had a cooler look and looking at early pictures of the band with David, they look much better.  I wish he wasn't in the band and I also wish The Band had a different name . I know this sounds harsh but I feel that The Beach Boys are one of the best bands of all time but because of an image problem people discard the band as nothing but a good surf band with the exceptions of the aficionados.  On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

So you love Al Jardine and his contributions, but wish he hadn't been in the band, in which case you surely never would have heard any of his contributions, all because David Marks *looks* "cooler?"

Not that it matters, but Dave looked like as much of a dork as any of the guys through 1963, maybe even more so when he literally looked like he was about 10 years old in some of the pics.

Of course Al was and is square. They ALL were to varying degrees. They didn't have 1% of the "I want to look like those guys!" thing the Beatles had going on, regardless of whether the fifth guy was Al or Dave or anyone else.

I also somehow doubt Al was responsible for the actual decision to wear the striped shirts, as if everyone including the other band members and management hated them but somehow Al was allowed to make that decision?

The band had tons of "image" problems, some that could have never been corrected because that's just how they were, and maybe some that could have been corrected. But it's not like Al Jardine was holding them back in that regard. He may have been emblematic of their image problems, but he wasn't that much of a cause of them.

I also think we're well past the stage of only "aficionados" recognizing that the band is about more than surfing. Hasn't it been like 15 or 20 years since "Pet Sounds" beat out "Sgt. Pepper" in "Greatest Album" polls?

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« Reply #1253 on: January 17, 2017, 08:02:07 AM »

While enjoying both bio's from last year, I'm learning more about the band from Mikes than Brian's.

I'm curious what that would be, I didn't see much band-related that I had not read or heard before in Mike's book, and some of it which was reported was a little shaky. One thing that I liked better about Brian's book was it filled in some of the missing years and periods of time that fans had been asking for, specifically the time from roughly 2000 to the present day, the "solo years" where books like Carlin's left off. I didn't go into Brian's book expecting a dissertation on Beach Boys history and spewing facts-figures that have already been noted. I also didn't expect so much quoting of data in Mike's book.

My sense based on the two books is that some might like Mike's book more because it's more gossipy and has more straight-forward seemingly "juicy" tidbits.

I don't feel like I really "learned more" about the band from Mike's book. But I probably picked up more anecdotes that reflect negatively on *other* people including members of the band, sometimes without enough proper context for my taste. So Al got snippy with a cheerleader and/or Jackie Love's decision to fire a cheerleader? What is the possible takeaway supposed to be, Mike? Al's an asshole I guess. What else is the point?

I came away from Mike's book finding it hugely ironic how lucky Mike is that Brian didn't take the same tact Mike did by dishing out chapter after chapter of bitching about Mike. If someone criticized Mike in the way he goes after numerous characters in his book, they'd probably need a Mark Lewisohn-style multi-volume arc to cover it all.
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« Reply #1254 on: January 17, 2017, 08:04:16 AM »

The Landlocked version of 'Big Sur' is a lot lot lot lot better than the Holland version.

Is that really an unpopular opinion?

The "Landlocked" version of "Big Sur" is regularly cited as a fan favorite outtake, and often mentioned as perhaps the best unreleased Mike-related track. I've also heard many fans relate that they like it better than the "Holland" version.

I guess I can't say what percentage of fans like one version over the other, but I wouldn't say digging the early version of "Big Sur" is an unpopular opinion.
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« Reply #1255 on: January 17, 2017, 08:15:36 AM »

While enjoying both bio's from last year, I'm learning more about the band from Mikes than Brian's.

I'm curious what that would be, I didn't see much band-related that I had not read or heard before in Mike's book, and some of it which was reported was a little shaky. One thing that I liked better about Brian's book was it filled in some of the missing years and periods of time that fans had been asking for, specifically the time from roughly 2000 to the present day, the "solo years" where books like Carlin's left off. I didn't go into Brian's book expecting a dissertation on Beach Boys history and spewing facts-figures that have already been noted. I also didn't expect so much quoting of data in Mike's book.

My sense based on the two books is that some might like Mike's book more because it's more gossipy and has more straight-forward seemingly "juicy" tidbits.

I don't feel like I really "learned more" about the band from Mike's book. But I probably picked up more anecdotes that reflect negatively on *other* people including members of the band, sometimes without enough proper context for my taste. So Al got snippy with a cheerleader and/or Jackie Love's decision to fire a cheerleader? What is the possible takeaway supposed to be, Mike? Al's an asshole I guess. What else is the point?

I came away from Mike's book finding it hugely ironic how lucky Mike is that Brian didn't take the same tact Mike did by dishing out chapter after chapter of bitching about Mike. If someone criticized Mike in the way he goes after numerous characters in his book, they'd probably need a Mark Lewisohn-style multi-volume arc to cover it all.

And a team of lawyers to fend off the subpoenas and C&D orders...
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« Reply #1256 on: January 17, 2017, 08:16:09 AM »

The Landlocked version of 'Big Sur' is a lot lot lot lot better than the Holland version.

Is that really an unpopular opinion?

The "Landlocked" version of "Big Sur" is regularly cited as a fan favorite outtake, and often mentioned as perhaps the best unreleased Mike-related track. I've also heard many fans relate that they like it better than the "Holland" version.

I guess I can't say what percentage of fans like one version over the other, but I wouldn't say digging the early version of "Big Sur" is an unpopular opinion.

I don't feel they compare. The 3/4 campfire "BS" fits wonderfully well into the suite. And the unreleased "BS" is a great track in its own right. 

I'm sure many fans like them equally----on a chalk and cheese basis, so to speak. Grin 
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« Reply #1257 on: January 17, 2017, 10:03:40 AM »

Let me start by saying how much I love Al Jardine and his contributions , He is also a genuinely nice person. But I feel his presence made the band look less hip, the stripes shirts were inspired by the Kingston Trio in which Al was a big fan of and I assume is responsible for.  His vocals remind me of the fact that he was going to be a dentist i.e. not good. David Marks on the other hand had a cooler look and looking at early pictures of the band with David, they look much better.  I wish he wasn't in the band and I also wish The Band had a different name . I know this sounds harsh but I feel that The Beach Boys are one of the best bands of all time but because of an image problem people discard the band as nothing but a good surf band with the exceptions of the aficionados.  On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

So you love Al Jardine and his contributions, but wish he hadn't been in the band, in which case you surely never would have heard any of his contributions, all because David Marks *looks* "cooler?"

Not that it matters, but Dave looked like as much of a dork as any of the guys through 1963, maybe even more so when he literally looked like he was about 10 years old in some of the pics.

Of course Al was and is square. They ALL were to varying degrees. They didn't have 1% of the "I want to look like those guys!" thing the Beatles had going on, regardless of whether the fifth guy was Al or Dave or anyone else.


They had 20%.  They had Dennis.
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« Reply #1258 on: January 17, 2017, 10:21:25 AM »

Let me start by saying how much I love Al Jardine and his contributions , He is also a genuinely nice person. But I feel his presence made the band look less hip, the stripes shirts were inspired by the Kingston Trio in which Al was a big fan of and I assume is responsible for.  His vocals remind me of the fact that he was going to be a dentist i.e. not good. David Marks on the other hand had a cooler look and looking at early pictures of the band with David, they look much better.  I wish he wasn't in the band and I also wish The Band had a different name . I know this sounds harsh but I feel that The Beach Boys are one of the best bands of all time but because of an image problem people discard the band as nothing but a good surf band with the exceptions of the aficionados.  On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

So you love Al Jardine and his contributions, but wish he hadn't been in the band, in which case you surely never would have heard any of his contributions, all because David Marks *looks* "cooler?"

Not that it matters, but Dave looked like as much of a dork as any of the guys through 1963, maybe even more so when he literally looked like he was about 10 years old in some of the pics.

Of course Al was and is square. They ALL were to varying degrees. They didn't have 1% of the "I want to look like those guys!" thing the Beatles had going on, regardless of whether the fifth guy was Al or Dave or anyone else.


They had 20%.  They had Dennis.

I can only imagine how many *less* screams there would have been in the audience if Denny hadn't been in the band.
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« Reply #1259 on: January 17, 2017, 10:55:27 AM »

Let me start by saying how much I love Al Jardine and his contributions , He is also a genuinely nice person. But I feel his presence made the band look less hip, the stripes shirts were inspired by the Kingston Trio in which Al was a big fan of and I assume is responsible for.  His vocals remind me of the fact that he was going to be a dentist i.e. not good. David Marks on the other hand had a cooler look and looking at early pictures of the band with David, they look much better.  I wish he wasn't in the band and I also wish The Band had a different name . I know this sounds harsh but I feel that The Beach Boys are one of the best bands of all time but because of an image problem people discard the band as nothing but a good surf band with the exceptions of the aficionados.  On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

Al can really sound like the Wilson brothers a lot of times though. He had an amazing voice and was an excellent blend in the group. I think all this "image" stuff and their name and whatnot is just pointless to go on about in my opinion. I love everything about the Beach Boys and wouldn't ever want them to change. I don't care if they were as big as the Beatles or if people had hangups because they weren't "badass".
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« Reply #1260 on: January 17, 2017, 11:10:08 AM »

Al keeps it clean! Cheesy
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« Reply #1261 on: January 17, 2017, 11:22:33 AM »

I love everything about the Beach Boys and wouldn't ever want them to change. I don't care if they were as big as the Beatles or if people had hangups because they weren't "badass".

The only good thing about their image problems and the fact that they repeatedly did things to deeply impact their popularity is that it gave superfans like us more opportunities to see them play tiny venues without any big deal. I got to see Al play at The Roxy, and I don't recall it being a big deal to get a ticket. Just imagine how impossible it would be to get tickets if a Beatle played that venue.
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« Reply #1262 on: January 17, 2017, 11:35:12 AM »

I've always liked Jeff's voice better than Matt's.

Edit: A good example is Matt taking the lead on "Dont Worry Baby" from the July 4th 1995 show. To me his voice is to "shrill", or "nasaly".
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« Reply #1263 on: January 17, 2017, 11:38:09 AM »

While enjoying both bio's from last year, I'm learning more about the band from Mikes than Brian's.

I'm curious what that would be, I didn't see much band-related that I had not read or heard before in Mike's book, and some of it which was reported was a little shaky. One thing that I liked better about Brian's book was it filled in some of the missing years and periods of time that fans had been asking for, specifically the time from roughly 2000 to the present day, the "solo years" where books like Carlin's left off. I didn't go into Brian's book expecting a dissertation on Beach Boys history and spewing facts-figures that have already been noted. I also didn't expect so much quoting of data in Mike's book.

I have maybe 100 pages of Mikes book to go. Yeah some of it may be the 'gossip' aspect but I am finding the early 90s copyright case interesting from Mikes perspective. The groups dealings with Landy, Manson, Murry etc. Sure there has been other books, but reading about these things in detail is fascinating. Details about touring life, Audrey, Watts, all from a band members perspective rather than the often told recording history makes a great change.
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« Reply #1264 on: January 17, 2017, 12:07:31 PM »

I've always liked Jeff's voice better than Matt's.

Edit: A good example is Matt taking the lead on "Dont Worry Baby" from the July 4th 1995 show. To me his voice is to "shrill", or "nasaly".

I've never liked Jeff's voice, apart from the C50 tour.
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« Reply #1265 on: January 17, 2017, 12:42:53 PM »

Let me start by saying how much I love Al Jardine and his contributions , He is also a genuinely nice person. But I feel his presence made the band look less hip, the stripes shirts were inspired by the Kingston Trio in which Al was a big fan of and I assume is responsible for.  His vocals remind me of the fact that he was going to be a dentist i.e. not good. David Marks on the other hand had a cooler look and looking at early pictures of the band with David, they look much better.  I wish he wasn't in the band and I also wish The Band had a different name . I know this sounds harsh but I feel that The Beach Boys are one of the best bands of all time but because of an image problem people discard the band as nothing but a good surf band with the exceptions of the aficionados.  On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

So you love Al Jardine and his contributions, but wish he hadn't been in the band, in which case you surely never would have heard any of his contributions, all because David Marks *looks* "cooler?"

Not that it matters, but Dave looked like as much of a dork as any of the guys through 1963, maybe even more so when he literally looked like he was about 10 years old in some of the pics.

Of course Al was and is square. They ALL were to varying degrees. They didn't have 1% of the "I want to look like those guys!" thing the Beatles had going on, regardless of whether the fifth guy was Al or Dave or anyone else.


They had 20%.  They had Dennis.

Girls loved Dennis, no question. Fans loved him. Dudes may have identified more with him (or at least wanted to be more like him) than any of the other guys in the band.

But not even Dennis was inspiring copycat hairdos, boots, and so on the way the Beatles did. And that's okay. I don't care; I'm not a teenager living in 1964. I don't care what the guys were wearing, I care about the music they made. The whole thing about image and band names undercutting the gravity of their music, a lot of those things are true to varying degrees. But the original assertion that somehow it was Al Jardine fueling all of that "squareness" was vastly overstated.

But none of the Beach Boys, on a countrywide, worldwide basis, were "cool" the way the Beatles were.

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« Reply #1266 on: January 17, 2017, 01:19:08 PM »

But not even Dennis was inspiring copycat hairdos, boots, and so on the way the Beatles did. And that's okay. I don't care; I'm not a teenager living in 1964. I don't care what they guys were wearing, I care about the music they made. The whole thing about image and band names undercutting the gravity of their music, a lot of those things are true to varying degrees. But the original assertion that somehow it was Al Jardine fueling all of that "squareness" was vastly overstated.

But none of the Beach Boys, on a countrywide, worldwide basis, were "cool" the way the Beatles were.
You're absolutely right. Dennis being applauded etc. is trifle compared to the Beatles' influence. The BBs could dress in lamest suits in the world, move on stage like complete buffoons & I wouldn't bat an eye.

David is not cooler than Al, that's for sure. He can play better guitar but image-wise he's not cool.

Now who is indeed square is Bruce. But, again, not liking band/ singer, writing them off just because they're not cool is dumb.
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« Reply #1267 on: January 18, 2017, 12:27:26 AM »

Unpopular opinion: Mike's Beach Boys are the best Beach Boys.

Honest unpopular opinion: I believe that the Beach Boys ceased to exist as a true band when Carl died. I akin the current band to be a la Blue Man Group: a touring group.

(More than likely not unpopular, but I need sleep and I can't think of a true one.  Grin )
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« Reply #1268 on: January 19, 2017, 02:33:37 PM »

"Deirdre" is one of the greatest BBs songs

'Deirdre' is a wonderful song, with superb vox from Bruce and cutting edge instrumentation. It's always been a favourtie of mine from Sunflower.  Cool Guy

Deidre is an old ladies name here in the UK. Like Ethel or Edith. I always imagine he's singing about his Gran. Lots of people love Deidre, and the way she overcooks her cauliflower in the pressure cooker, one, two, three and I'm knitting with Deidre.
Yeah, its not a name that summons up images of beauty, like Wendy.
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« Reply #1269 on: January 19, 2017, 02:38:11 PM »

I never knew before there is name "Deirdre". Correct if it's wrong but sounds like nobody before & after BBs used it as title or in lyrics of song.
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« Reply #1270 on: April 11, 2017, 12:27:40 AM »

Posting in the "December 1964 event" thread just reminded me of an unpopular opinion that I have.  Although I enjoy it, a wide swath of the Biopic is complete horse apples. 
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« Reply #1271 on: April 11, 2017, 12:37:09 AM »

Posting in the "December 1964 event" thread just reminded me of an unpopular opinion that I have.  Although I enjoy it, a wide swath of the Biopic is complete horse apples. 

Yeah, that's why it's a movie and not a documentary dude
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« Reply #1272 on: April 11, 2017, 06:48:13 AM »

Let me start by saying how much I love Al Jardine and his contributions , He is also a genuinely nice person. But I feel his presence made the band look less hip, the stripes shirts were inspired by the Kingston Trio in which Al was a big fan of and I assume is responsible for.  His vocals remind me of the fact that he was going to be a dentist i.e. not good. David Marks on the other hand had a cooler look and looking at early pictures of the band with David, they look much better.  I wish he wasn't in the band and I also wish The Band had a different name . I know this sounds harsh but I feel that The Beach Boys are one of the best bands of all time but because of an image problem people discard the band as nothing but a good surf band with the exceptions of the aficionados.  On top of that I'm not a fan of Matt Jardine's voice, Its too squeaky and I am so surprised that people like him.

Al can really sound like the Wilson brothers a lot of times though. He had an amazing voice and was an excellent blend in the group. I think all this "image" stuff and their name and whatnot is just pointless to go on about in my opinion. I love everything about the Beach Boys and wouldn't ever want them to change. I don't care if they were as big as the Beatles or if people had hangups because they weren't "badass".

Ditto.  I couldn't give a toss if the band's image was cool or not.  And really, to blame Al (and to say that you wish he wasn't in the band!) for the band's supposed squareness is really unfair.  First of all, we're considering all of this with the benefit of hindsight.  If we look at photos or clips from the early 60s, then yes, they look square by modern-day standards.  But so did the Beatles, to be honest.  Certainly I don't think Al looked any less square than Carl or Brian did in the early years.  But bottom line, Al is a very good singer (if you don't believe me just go listen to him perform today) who also wrote good songs and contributed to some GREAT songs.  The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 

 
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« Reply #1273 on: April 11, 2017, 06:50:17 AM »

Posting in the "December 1964 event" thread just reminded me of an unpopular opinion that I have.  Although I enjoy it, a wide swath of the Biopic is complete horse apples. 

As in, you don't like it, or you feel it's inaccurate? If the latter, what do you feel is inaccurate?

The thing I learned after "Love & Mercy" came out is how many BB fans seemingly otherwise never go to the movies or see films. "Love & Mercy" is a film first, not a project made to service fans. It's also not a "biopic" in the traditional sense. That it *didn't* go down the path of "Deadman's Curve" (to name another item being discussed presently on the board) or "Backbeat" or "Birth of the Beatles" or "The Buddy Holly Story" or either of the two previous Beach Boys ABC TV movies is a miracle.
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« Reply #1274 on: April 11, 2017, 06:52:30 AM »

Mine:  

I absolutely love the song Keepin the Summer Alive.  
I quite enjoy the disco HCTN.  Maybe it has something to do with not having had to live through the disco era (or at least, be old enough to grasp it).  
Dennis is not the sexy Beach Boy.  That honour belongs to Carl.  
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