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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 348255 times)
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« Reply #1025 on: May 30, 2015, 01:08:46 AM »

I think BW 88 is a better album than Love You. There. I said it.
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« Reply #1026 on: May 30, 2015, 04:10:20 AM »

Overall I much prefer BW88 over Love You.
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« Reply #1027 on: May 30, 2015, 07:19:41 AM »

Even though OCA isn't that good of an album, Brian and Van Dyke doing it on IJWMFTT is beautiful. They should've just done it like that.

 Absolutely agree. On that note, I don't suppose there is a full audio of the track from that session floating about anywhere? That would get well used in my playlists....it's not on the album :-(
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« Reply #1028 on: May 30, 2015, 08:20:07 AM »

Okay, so more than Smile is a bit of a stretch, but I'm entitled to say agree with the sentiment that it's a work of genius, right?


Here's the funny part...back when I first got SS, almost 20 years ago, I was 2 years away from getting high for the first time. And THAT's the album that made me a fan.

Life's funny, eh?

But Billy, put yourself in my place back in 66-67 if you can for a moment. It was a Beach Boys high like no other. Your favorite band was at it's most famous peak with Pet Sounds with all it's singles all over the radio, Good Vibrations is everywhere, Brian is a rock and roll god and can do no wrong. There is talk although sparse of something big as a follow up coming down the pike, then H&V is on the radio and you say "not bad at all but not GV but can't wait to hear the rest of the new stuff and SS is released, it's taken home, put it on the turntable and you feel like a pile of homemade sh*t after one spin.

Yeah, but it isn't 1967 anymore. We can enjoy it for what it is now.

^Exactly. And forgive me for rehashing another old point of mine, but I'd argue it's high time we as a society do the same to Sgt Pepper on the other end of the spectrum. Forget the reviews, the "influence" and the fact that it's the Beatles for just one moment. Put on any other album from the time, like Moby Grape, Quicksilver Messenger Service or The Crazy World of Arthur Brown and then listen to Sgt Pepper again. Ask yourself, without all the built-in hype and echo-chambered "best album eva!!" praise that's been accumulated over the years...is this really worth the title of best album ever, much less best psychedelic/counterculture/60s album ever? I think anyone being honest with themselves would have to say no.

/mini rant
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« Reply #1029 on: May 30, 2015, 08:27:51 AM »

Okay, so more than Smile is a bit of a stretch, but I'm entitled to say agree with the sentiment that it's a work of genius, right?


Here's the funny part...back when I first got SS, almost 20 years ago, I was 2 years away from getting high for the first time. And THAT's the album that made me a fan.

Life's funny, eh?

But Billy, put yourself in my place back in 66-67 if you can for a moment. It was a Beach Boys high like no other. Your favorite band was at it's most famous peak with Pet Sounds with all it's singles all over the radio, Good Vibrations is everywhere, Brian is a rock and roll god and can do no wrong. There is talk although sparse of something big as a follow up coming down the pike, then H&V is on the radio and you say "not bad at all but not GV but can't wait to hear the rest of the new stuff and SS is released, it's taken home, put it on the turntable and you feel like a pile of homemade sh*t after one spin.

Oh yeah, no doubt. That's what blows my mind . Of all albums. that was the one the grabbed me first. I can't imagine what my reaction would be if I had heard Pet Sounds first.

Smiley Smile is every bit as good a listening experience as The Smile Sessions is, although not nearly as good as the 30 some-odd years of fans trying to create their own coherent versions of Smile.



It is, but its a totally different listening experience nontheless. Sonic acid vs sonic weed. A head-explosion of complimentary themes and ideas vs a laid back stoned in the living room sound. A teenage symphony to God vs a one of a kind experiment in home recording. So it completely makes sense why someone would love one and hate the other even if theyre just as good and intrinsically linked together.
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #1030 on: May 30, 2015, 08:30:50 AM »

Okay, so more than Smile is a bit of a stretch, but I'm entitled to say agree with the sentiment that it's a work of genius, right?


Here's the funny part...back when I first got SS, almost 20 years ago, I was 2 years away from getting high for the first time. And THAT's the album that made me a fan.

Life's funny, eh?

But Billy, put yourself in my place back in 66-67 if you can for a moment. It was a Beach Boys high like no other. Your favorite band was at it's most famous peak with Pet Sounds with all it's singles all over the radio, Good Vibrations is everywhere, Brian is a rock and roll god and can do no wrong. There is talk although sparse of something big as a follow up coming down the pike, then H&V is on the radio and you say "not bad at all but not GV but can't wait to hear the rest of the new stuff and SS is released, it's taken home, put it on the turntable and you feel like a pile of homemade sh*t after one spin.

Oh yeah, no doubt. That's what blows my mind . Of all albums. that was the one the grabbed me first. I can't imagine what my reaction would be if I had heard Pet Sounds first.

Smiley Smile is every bit as good a listening experience as The Smile Sessions is, although not nearly as good as the 30 some-odd years of fans trying to create their own coherent versions of Smile.



It is, but its a totally different listening experience nontheless. Sonic acid vs sonic weed. A head-explosion of complimentary themes and ideas vs a laid back stoned in the living room sound. A teenage symphony to God vs a one of a kind experiment in home recording. So it completely makes sense why someone would love one and hate the other even if theyre just as good and intrinsically linked together.

Fair point.
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« Reply #1031 on: May 30, 2015, 10:16:53 PM »

The Beaks Of Eagles is the highlight of Holland and is one of my favorite Beach Boys moments, period.

Sweet Insanity is Brian's best solo work and his voice from the period is my favorite, Smart Girls is pure fun.

Help Me Rhonda is a really boring song.
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« Reply #1032 on: May 30, 2015, 10:23:54 PM »

And forgive me for rehashing another old point of mine, but I'd argue it's high time we as a society do the same to Sgt Pepper on the other end of the spectrum. Forget the reviews, the "influence" and the fact that it's the Beatles for just one moment
How? They are kings of the swinging 60s. Read "most popular name in the music history". Forgetting them? Forget it.
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« Reply #1033 on: May 30, 2015, 10:31:59 PM »

Help Me Ronda > Help Me Rhonda (and I don't terribly love either version)

Be True to Your School (album version) > Be True to Your School (single version)

Ballad of Ole Betsy (w/ Mike on lead) from the NASCAR CD is surprisingly not that bad (runs for the hills, but I'm actually serious!)

Little Deuce Coupe (song) is not too great, and excepting Barbara Ann, might be the weakest hit song the band ever had.
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« Reply #1034 on: May 30, 2015, 11:07:28 PM »

And forgive me for rehashing another old point of mine, but I'd argue it's high time we as a society do the same to Sgt Pepper on the other end of the spectrum. Forget the reviews, the "influence" and the fact that it's the Beatles for just one moment
How? They are kings of the swinging 60s. Read "most popular name in the music history". Forgetting them? Forget it.

Just because it's the Beatles doesnt mean it's gold. Magical Mystery Tour (the movie) was utter sh*t, as was Yellow Submarine (the album) and Let It Be. This is exactly what I mean, theyve been hyped up so much and constantly lionized by the media so much that now everyone practically worships them to the detriment of all their equally talented contemporaries. It's taken for granted now that theyre the best, so everything they ever touched was gold and everyone else was just copying all they did, which isnt true at all. It's gotten so pathetic to where we have posters comparing them to Shakespeare and Einstein, saying that their discography is better than all other bands combined, that they invented the counterculture and psychedelic rock, and singlehandedly influenced the anti-establishment sentiment of the time. UTTER NONSENSE, yet it's blindly spouted as fact by people who ought to know better. It really makes me sick as a fan of that scene and all the wonderful, often unfairly overlooked music that sprung from it. Im not hating on the Beatles, but they are not kings. They are just one great band who happened to catch on better than their peers. They sold a lot of records and had a great PR campaign which has now enshrined them as the best band ever, and to dare question it or challenge any of their albums is considered actual heresy by others. It's like a cult of personality, and I wish some of you could just take a step back and see how absolutely ridiculous it is. I mean, do you see what you're saying here? You're literally saying that because it's the Beatles, that Sgt Pepper deserves all the ridiculous praise it gets, when you could throw a dart at a pile of albums from 66-69 and hit any dozen of albums just as well crafted if not better. Again I postulate that if ANY other band released Pepper exactly as is, it would be considered a "good, not great" little album and nothing more. But because it was the fab four, and doing psychedelia just as it was getting mainstream attention, holy sh*t suddenly its the best thing ever and totally and singularly responsible for the hippie scene which had already been growing for months previously independent of them.

/rant
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& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
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« Reply #1035 on: May 30, 2015, 11:50:56 PM »

Actually, what I said was repeating a media quote. Their name is ubiquitous, then & now people cite them as influence & sell as brand (mugs, T-shirt, you name). It isn't easy to imagine Sgt. Pepper being attributed to some rookies. I wish it was, but they are as you said hyped up. No filler, 1st-rate. Beatles.
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« Reply #1036 on: May 31, 2015, 12:34:47 AM »

And forgive me for rehashing another old point of mine, but I'd argue it's high time we as a society do the same to Sgt Pepper on the other end of the spectrum. Forget the reviews, the "influence" and the fact that it's the Beatles for just one moment
How? They are kings of the swinging 60s. Read "most popular name in the music history". Forgetting them? Forget it.

Just because it's the Beatles doesnt mean it's gold. Magical Mystery Tour (the movie) was utter sh*t, as was Yellow Submarine (the album) and Let It Be. This is exactly what I mean, theyve been hyped up so much and constantly lionized by the media so much that now everyone practically worships them to the detriment of all their equally talented contemporaries. It's taken for granted now that theyre the best, so everything they ever touched was gold and everyone else was just copying all they did, which isnt true at all. It's gotten so pathetic to where we have posters comparing them to Shakespeare and Einstein, saying that their discography is better than all other bands combined, that they invented the counterculture and psychedelic rock, and singlehandedly influenced the anti-establishment sentiment of the time. UTTER NONSENSE, yet it's blindly spouted as fact by people who ought to know better. It really makes me sick as a fan of that scene and all the wonderful, often unfairly overlooked music that sprung from it. Im not hating on the Beatles, but they are not kings. They are just one great band who happened to catch on better than their peers. They sold a lot of records and had a great PR campaign which has now enshrined them as the best band ever, and to dare question it or challenge any of their albums is considered actual heresy by others. It's like a cult of personality, and I wish some of you could just take a step back and see how absolutely ridiculous it is. I mean, do you see what you're saying here? You're literally saying that because it's the Beatles, that Sgt Pepper deserves all the ridiculous praise it gets, when you could throw a dart at a pile of albums from 66-69 and hit any dozen of albums just as well crafted if not better. Again I postulate that if ANY other band released Pepper exactly as is, it would be considered a "good, not great" little album and nothing more. But because it was the fab four, and doing psychedelia just as it was getting mainstream attention, holy sh*t suddenly its the best thing ever and totally and singularly responsible for the hippie scene which had already been growing for months previously independent of them.

/rant

We get it that you feel a load of psychedelic albums deserve more praise than sgt pepper but it's just your opinion and no more valid than the guy who believes their cultural influence was as significant as Shakespeare.

I think the problem with the beatles is the over saturation. It becomes difficult to appreciate their greatness because (certainly for non baby boomers) we're taught to accept their greatness even before we've heard the music and can judge for ourselves.

I feel quite fortunate that, at 18, there was much of the Beatles catalogue that I was unfamiliar with (my parents only had Pepper). At that age I was a stones, velvet underground fan and stumbled on my step dad's Beatles blue box vinyl set. I say fortunate because I feel I was able to listen to much if it with fresh ears - for example much of the white album was unfamiliar. I could also digest the entire catalogue in one go via the unbeatable medium of vinyl - pouring over the beatiful sleeves as I devoured the music. So my point is that, in some way Mujan, I wonder if my experience of discovering the beatles may have been more akin to your discovery of the more obscure 60s albums. Let it bleed and the velvets' banana album were my totems then - rubber soul, the wa and magical mystery tour (despite being familiar with the most famous tracks) ironically were more like lost gems. Happiness is a warm gun, dear prudence, girl, I'm only sleeping, and your bird can sing???!!!! f*** - what incredible music!!!

Also what floors me to this day is the near perfection of the beatles catalogue as a whole, and their career arc. Maybe, rather than focusing on pepper (arguably the easiest beatles album to hate) you'd get a better sense of their brilliance from assessing the canon as a whole. Or maybe you'll always dislike them. You're entitled to your opinion but please don't make out like the rest of the world has somehow been brainwashed or conned into elevating their output above their peers.
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« Reply #1037 on: May 31, 2015, 01:07:15 AM »

Actually, what I said was repeating a media quote. Their name is ubiquitous, then & now people cite them as influence & sell as brand (mugs, T-shirt, you name). It isn't easy to imagine Sgt. Pepper being attributed to some rookies. I wish it was, but they are as you said hyped up. No filler, 1st-rate. Beatles.

I'd argue just as many people would cite Frank Zappa or Joseph Byrd or Arthur Lee or any other 60s artist as an influence if they had anywhere near the PR and built-in hype machine as the fab four, but I guess we'll never know. The merchandise is precisely the problem. That oversaturation and media praising them endlessly while ignoring their just as talented contemporaries. Would you mind enlightening me on what's so great about Pepper that it couldnt come from anyone else? Seems to me that the album is a half-baked concept (title track and reprise) pretentiousness that doesnt really mean anything (A Day in the Life is built up as some great masterpiece but I never understood what was so "deep" or meaningful about it), filler (Good Morning), dead spots (always felt Within You Without You dragged the album down a lot) and some nice but nothing spectacular pop songs. Is Little Help From My Friends, Lovely Rita, Getting Better or Fixing a Hole REALLY that great? Pretty simple lyrics, no overarching theme or messages...basic pop song fare as far as I can tell. Admittedly Im not musically trained, so maybe there's something Im not seeing? But I can appreciate how awesome The United States of America, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown and SMiLE are even in my naivete. Lucy in the Sky and Mr Kite are great songs, but...is writing about a toddler's drawing and literally copying specific phrases wholesale off a poster really that "deep" or indicative of genius artistry? Sorry but I dont think so. I always really loved She's Leaving Home, but I feel like that type of song is done better by other artists as well as other Beatles songs. When Im 64 is lame and underproduced compared to the other songs, making it stick out and not in a good way.

So really, where's the genius in any of that? I guess the layered production techniques, but that's more George Martin, isnt it? Paul says he wants an orgasm of music in ADITL, George made it happen. Cool...but where's the brilliance in that, exactly? And Brian already did all that and more effectively in Pet Sounds and was poised to raise the bar yet again with SMiLE. Why is Pepper so revolutionary? Why is it such a work of genius? Im not trying to shut you down so much as understand what the thought process is of someone who loves it so much. The only answer I ever get is that it influenced 9000 artists and heralded in the Summer of Love. Again, I counter that Forever Changes or Incense and Peppermints would have done the same if those albums were released by bands with a built-in audience and brand recognition on the same level. The latter would have happened anyway. The Beatles didnt create that scene, they joined in when they saw it would be profitable and creatively fulfilling to do so. It was born and growing before Pepper, and would have continued without Pepper.

And buddhahat, I get what you're saying. I totally agree that the problem is oversaturation. THAT is what Im complaining about. Im not trashing the Beatles. They really ARE a great band. I just dont think they're the best band, the end-all be-all of pop music that everyone else hypes them up as. Im not picking on Pepper because it's an easy target. On the contrary, it has a legendary status and is widely considered the best album ever released, which baffles me to no end. But I do respect their earlier albums for what they are (though they're not my style) and Rubber Soul, Revolver and Abbey Road are some of my favorite albums ever. I think the White Album and especially Pepper are vastly inferior than the popular narrative would have you believe though. That's really all Im trying to say, the Beatles are too built up, to the point where it's gone from legitimate praise to cult levels. And Pepper is good but far from the best album ever released. If it was Rubber Soul that got that level of praise I might understand, seeing as how that was one of the first, if not the first album to be a cohesive whole with no filler and a consistent level of quality and tone. But in general, I think we should judge albums by their own merits--how good they sound, how well the band played, the depth of meaning in the lyrics and themes--as opposed to how many other artists claim it as an influence. It just seems like a silly way to judge merit. If I become a famous musician someday and list SMiLE & the USA as my influences, does that suddenly make them better albums? No, they were already amazing. If tomorrow, everyone decides that Summer in Paradise is an overlooked gem and artists start recording in that style, does that suddenly make SIP the best album ever? No.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 10:34:57 PM by Mujan, B@st@rd Son of a Blue Wizard » Logged

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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #1038 on: May 31, 2015, 01:15:33 AM »

Little Deuce Coupe (song) is not too great, and excepting Barbara Ann, might be the weakest hit song the band ever had.

Couldn't agree more. Never liked that song.
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« Reply #1039 on: May 31, 2015, 07:33:03 AM »

Little Deuce Coupe (song) is not too great, and excepting Barbara Ann, might be the weakest hit song the band ever had.

Couldn't agree more. Never liked that song.

An unpopular opinion would be "I don't like Little Deuce Coupe" Calling it weak might be just wrong, if you're talking influence. "One of the most exciting things that ever happened in the world of 'white-person music' was when the Beach Boys used the progression V-II on "Little Deuce Coupe." An important step forward by going backward." Frank Zappa
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« Reply #1040 on: May 31, 2015, 11:30:14 AM »

Little Deuce Coupe, fantastic song. Smiley
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« Reply #1041 on: May 31, 2015, 01:26:01 PM »

Be True To Your School is SO overrated.
Deirdre, My Diane, All I Wanna Do and Disney Girls are just as good as anything on Pet Sounds.
Spirit Of America is better than Endless Summer.
Holland is boring to listen to.
Endless Harmony is a great song.
LADY LYNDA is the best song of LA
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« Reply #1042 on: June 01, 2015, 05:59:58 AM »

I think BW 88 is a better album than Love You. There. I said it.

I couldn't agree more.  To my ears, BW88 actually has some stand out tracks (ie. Love and Mercy, Melt Away), and I really can't say that about Love You. 
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« Reply #1043 on: June 01, 2015, 06:31:57 AM »

I think BW 88 is a better album than Love You. There. I said it.

I couldn't agree more.  To my ears, BW88 actually has some stand out tracks (ie. Love and Mercy, Melt Away), and I really can't say that about Love You. 
I can. Smiley Brian's lead voice is terrible on many of the songs. The Wall of Brians is a bit much too. Rarely ever listen to it for that reason.
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Thou Art In Hawthorne,
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Your Kingdom Come,
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On Stage As It Is In Studio,
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And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
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« Reply #1044 on: June 01, 2015, 10:06:28 AM »

Help Me Ronda > Help Me Rhonda (and I don't terribly love either version)

Be True to Your School (album version) > Be True to Your School (single version)

Ballad of Ole Betsy (w/ Mike on lead) from the NASCAR CD is surprisingly not that bad (runs for the hills, but I'm actually serious!)

Little Deuce Coupe (song) is not too great, and excepting Barbara Ann, might be the weakest hit song the band ever had.

Eeeeek. I usually agree with nearly everything you post Century....

But that version of "Betsy" on the NASCAR CD is horrendous in my opinion. And this is coming me, who owns and actually sometimes listens to both Mike and Bruce's Summertime Cruisin' album and the Mike/Bruce/Dave NASCAR CD. It's just so.......plastic sounding. And Mike's lead just has no soul to it. It's exactly what you think a Mike Love lead on a Beach Boys cover album in the late '90s would sound like.

But you're still one of the best posters here Century!  Grin
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« Reply #1045 on: June 03, 2015, 08:04:16 AM »

LADY LYNDA is the best song of LA
We are 3 who think that. Count Freddie. 3D

And "Betsy" from NASCAR is great! There, I said it.
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« Reply #1046 on: June 03, 2015, 08:47:50 AM »

I think BW 88 is a better album than Love You. There. I said it.

Love You has some amazing songs, but even the best of them are brought down to some extent by the insane arrangements Brian went for. Imagine Love You with the production value from "Had To Phone Ya" and many of the other 15BO tracks. Would be a more appropriate follow-up to Holland and a far better seller than what it turned out to be.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #1047 on: June 03, 2015, 10:31:56 AM »

Help Me Ronda > Help Me Rhonda (and I don't terribly love either version)

Be True to Your School (album version) > Be True to Your School (single version)

Ballad of Ole Betsy (w/ Mike on lead) from the NASCAR CD is surprisingly not that bad (runs for the hills, but I'm actually serious!)

Little Deuce Coupe (song) is not too great, and excepting Barbara Ann, might be the weakest hit song the band ever had.

Eeeeek. I usually agree with nearly everything you post Century....

But that version of "Betsy" on the NASCAR CD is horrendous in my opinion. And this is coming me, who owns and actually sometimes listens to both Mike and Bruce's Summertime Cruisin' album and the Mike/Bruce/Dave NASCAR CD. It's just so.......plastic sounding. And Mike's lead just has no soul to it. It's exactly what you think a Mike Love lead on a Beach Boys cover album in the late '90s would sound like.

But you're still one of the best posters here Century!  Grin

Thanks sweetdudejim! Smiley

Regarding Mike's vocal on the NASCAR Betsy, I guess going I was just expecting it to be really super bad, since virtually all of those cheesy remakes of previously-released 60s BB songs are bad (not just on NASCAR, but there are a good number of other studio re-recordings from the 80s/90s from various boots that are just plain terrible). When Mike is re-recording an old song that he did lead vocals on previously, one can only compare his much older voice to the original version and feel it's inferior (much like Brian's Imagination remakes), not to mention vastly inferior backing tracks... but with Betsy, I felt it at least brought something new which I'd never heard before. Almost a bit like the vastly different arrangements for songs on the Lei'd in Hawaii studio recordings, where it's just a very different take on a familiar song. I'm a sucker for Mike's hushed, less-nasal vocals, like Meant For You, Kokomo, Cool Head Warm Heart, etc., and this vocal sorta fits in with those types of his vocals, even if it's quite inferior to the original version. Plus it's kinda cool as a curiosity to hear another BB singing on a studio version of a song which was originally sung by a different BB. Sort of an alternate universe type of situation, even though Brian's original vocal and version are untouchable. Just IMHO!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 10:33:14 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Domino
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« Reply #1048 on: June 03, 2015, 11:28:10 AM »

I'm Feeling Sad is the best song Brian has written since I Wanna Pick You Up.
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Brian on why he loves God Only Knows: "Because Paul McCartney said it was his favourite song"

"New rule: Having anything to do with the creation of a punk rawk version of "All You Need Is Love" (never with the horn part because lol hornz are silly and dumb) gets you the death penalty. No questions, no trial, it's your fault, pick out your coffin." - runnersdialzero
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« Reply #1049 on: June 03, 2015, 11:33:59 AM »

I think Country Pie should have been on LA Light.
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