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Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
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Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions (Read 348286 times)
Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #525 on:
August 22, 2013, 12:11:35 AM »
Quote from: Rocky Raccoon on August 21, 2013, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: (Stephen Newcombe) on August 21, 2013, 04:36:37 PM
Here's one.
As much as I love him, I often find Brian harping on about his mental illness and abusive father quite irritating. After all, some people in the world have had it much worse
without
all the money and opportunities he has had. Some people in the world are starving and would laugh in his face (if they weren't too busy starving) when he talked about his problems.
Mental illness is not something that can be controlled. If you went up to a person suffering from clinical depression and told them to cheer up because people in the world have it much worse, you're going to get some dirty looks. Yeah, Brian has had huge success but all the love and money in the world isn't going to cure him, that's not how it works.
I know, I spent my 20's with clinical depression, and what a self obsessed little whiner I was. At the time I knew it was illness over which I had no control, but now, looking back, I think that was just excuses. There was plenty I could have done to have snapped out of it. Now I look back and I'm embarrassed, so no. I don't have time for it.
Did you know, in poor parts of the world there isn't such a thing as clinical depression. People are too bust trying to survive. Clinical depression is an invention of the mollycoddled west IMO.
My grandmother, who lived through the blitz and lost loved ones in the war used to ask me what I had to be depressed about, and I used to whine at her about how woeful my life was. How embarrassing this is for me now.
I get your point though, and Brian's illness was far worse than mine. BUT, like mine it was exasperated by drug use, so ultimately he is responsible. I try to retain my pity for people who deserve it, not rich rock stars who have never had to face reality.
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Micha
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #526 on:
August 22, 2013, 02:40:53 AM »
I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?
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runnersdialzero
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #527 on:
August 22, 2013, 02:58:24 AM »
Quote
I know, I spent my 20's with clinical depression, and what a self obsessed little whiner I was. At the time I knew it was illness over which I had no control, but now, looking back, I think that was just excuses. There was plenty I could have done to have snapped out of it. Now I look back and I'm embarrassed, so no. I don't have time for it.
From how you're describing it, no, you seemingly didn't have clinical depression and don't seem to understand how it works at all.
Quote
Did you know, in poor parts of the world there isn't such a thing as clinical depression. People are too busy trying to survive.
Probably due to extremely poor medical care, lack of understanding of mental illness and, above all else, people with mental illness likely don't last nearly as long in those parts for a number of reasons. Lack of understanding and lack of documentation doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Quote
I get your point though, and Brian's illness was far worse than mine. BUT, like mine it was exasperated by drug use, so ultimately he is responsible. I try to retain my pity for people who deserve it, not rich rock stars who have never had to face reality.
Brian hearing voices and having hallucinations was just as likely to happen eventually had he never touched drugs. People go through this sh*t all the time without doing drugs. Ever. Merely existing can often be a total nightmare for them. Attitudes like yours only make things harder for them.
Are you really gonna tell someone with schizophrenia to "get over it" because other people have it worse? It's not a contest, for Christ's sake, and anyone living with mental illness in a non-poor area is likely well aware that others have it worse (which, in turn, can create even more guilt and shame than they already very much feel. Neat!). It doesn't prevent their brain from being broken to some extent. Think about it: who WANTS to be a broken, depressed failure who struggles just to exist? Standing in the kitchen making dinner and suddenly being struck with fear, panic, and loss of control? Sitting down after a long day and suddenly, without warning or reason, being absolutely overwhelmed and exhausted with sadness for no reason? Sounds like a sh
itty time, to me.
I don't think you'd tell a cancer patient, "Shape up, others have it much worse," so why come after people with genuine mental illness? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not going on or it's your place to judge if they're genuinely ill or not. Any disease will have its scam artists, plenty of people have faked having cancer to get money, does that mean we should have an attiitude and badger someone anytime they say they have cancer? The situation is the same here.
Hopefully you don't take this as an attack, I just can't get on board with this sort of thinking. It feels very regressive to me, only making the problem worse. Again, it's not a contest of who has it worse, here. You can be horribly, clinically depressed, ill-fit for this world and this life, and still be extremely compassionate toward those less fortunate than you are and appreciate that you have it better than they do and hey, you're lucky to be alive and still have a chance.
«
Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 03:44:30 AM by runnersdialzero
»
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Amazing Larry
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #528 on:
August 22, 2013, 03:08:25 AM »
Quote from: runnersdialzero on August 22, 2013, 02:58:24 AM
Quote
I know, I spent my 20's with clinical depression, and what a self obsessed little whiner I was. At the time I knew it was illness over which I had no control, but now, looking back, I think that was just excuses. There was plenty I could have done to have snapped out of it. Now I look back and I'm embarrassed, so no. I don't have time for it.
From how you're describing it, no, you didn't have clinical depression and don't seem to understand how it works at all.
Quote
Did you know, in poor parts of the world there isn't such a thing as clinical depression. People are too busy trying to survive.
Probably due to extremely poor medical care, lack of understanding of mental illness and, above all else, people with mental illness likely don't last nearly as long in those parts for a number of reasons. Lack of understanding and lack of documentation doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Quote
I get your point though, and Brian's illness was far worse than mine. BUT, like mine it was exasperated by drug use, so ultimately he is responsible. I try to retain my pity for people who deserve it, not rich rock stars who have never had to face reality.
Brian hearing voices and having hallucinations was just as likely to happen eventually had he never touched drugs. People go through this sh*t all the time without doing drugs. Ever. Merely existing can often be a total nightmare for them. Attitudes like yours only make things harder for them.
Are you really gonna tell someone with schizophrenia to "get over it" because other people have it worse? It's not a contest, for Christ's sake, and anyone living with mental illness in a non-poor area is likely well aware that others have it worse (which, in turn, can create even more guilt and shame than they already very much feel. Neat!). It doesn't prevent their brain from being broken to some extent.
I don't think you'd tell a cancer patient "Shape up, others have it much worse," so why come after people with genuine mental illness? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not going on or it's your place to judge if they're genuinely ill or not.
Although I agree with you, Runners, don't you think you're being a little harsh?
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runnersdialzero
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #529 on:
August 22, 2013, 03:12:45 AM »
See slightly revised version above. I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't going after him personally, this is just something I really disagree with him on. If I was harsh, it wasn't intentional and it was only because I feel this attitude toward mental illness, be it clinical depression to being fully mentally disabled, is pretty harsh, itself.
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Mike's Beard
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #530 on:
August 22, 2013, 03:12:57 AM »
Quote from: Micha on August 22, 2013, 02:40:53 AM
I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?
It's either a reference to the air raid bombings over England during WW2 or the time granny unwisely ordered the chicken vindaloo.
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #531 on:
August 22, 2013, 03:39:08 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on August 22, 2013, 03:12:57 AM
Quote from: Micha on August 22, 2013, 02:40:53 AM
I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?
It's either a reference to the air raid bombings over England during WW2 or the time granny unwisely ordered the chicken vindaloo.
Likely both.
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MBE
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #532 on:
August 22, 2013, 04:05:07 AM »
Brian's people letting so much press be done on the mental problems is perhaps sad in that it has sometimes overshadowed Brian creatively. As far as how he feels, until you walk in any mans shoes.....
Sure there are worse things than being Brian Wilson, but every one of us has our own personal problems to handle. Maybe a rich rock star has some cool things most don't but there are also demands and things you give up that are hard on the most stable of people. You can look up, you can look down, but in fighting his problems I see Brian as nothing but strong in that area.
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Micha
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #533 on:
August 22, 2013, 04:17:01 AM »
Quote from: Discipline Daddy on August 22, 2013, 03:39:08 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on August 22, 2013, 03:12:57 AM
Quote from: Micha on August 22, 2013, 02:40:53 AM
I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?
It's either a reference to the air raid bombings over England during WW2 or the time granny unwisely ordered the chicken vindaloo.
Likely both.
I was interpreting it as living in Poland in 1939, an I had to look up "vindaloo". Waiting for Stephen's explanation.
Quote from: runnersdialzero on August 22, 2013, 02:58:24 AM
Are you really gonna tell someone with schizophrenia to "get over it" because other people have it worse?
...
I don't think you'd tell a cancer patient, "Shape up, others have it much worse," so why come after people with genuine mental illness?
To be fair, Stephen referred to depression only, not other mental of physical diseases.
I think he might be right that the western lifestyle makes the appearance of depression happen more often, but I disagree with him when he says it's their own fault, even when they take drugs.
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Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #534 on:
August 22, 2013, 09:44:27 AM »
Hitler's air raids. She lives to this day in Croydon, which was flattened.
Runners. I was
diagnosed
with clinical depression. Maybe the Doctor got it wrong. I was paranoid, thought that everyone could read my mind, thought I was centre of the universe. Self harmed, self hated, thought I was the next Mozart and that everyone should bow before me. Felt everything, felt nothing. Whatever I had it wasn't good.
Since then, I've known people who have lost children, people who escaped war-torn countries. People who had a parent commit suicide and they discovered them. I've had family members face and survive cancer with great fortitude. Made my problems seem like nothing. It made me feel ashamed. So this wasn't really an attack on Brian, or other celebrities, it was more an attack on myself. I suppose I'm like one of those annoying reformed smokers who turns dead against it.
Yes depression is an illness, a chemical inbalance, but it is treatable. I've known so many depression sufferers though (myself included) who didn't want to treat it, because it's far easier to blame the world for all your problems and hide behind a shield, than to do something about it. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh now. This is mainly self directed
Quote from: runnersdialzero on August 22, 2013, 02:58:24 AM
Hopefully you don't take this as an attack, I just can't get on board with this sort of thinking. It feels very regressive to me, only making the problem worse. Again, it's not a contest of who has it worse, here. You can be horribly, clinically depressed, ill-fit for this world and this life, and still be extremely compassionate toward those less fortunate than you are and appreciate that you have it better than they do and hey, you're lucky to be alive and still have a chance.
Of course I don't take it as an attack, although I know when
you
start being serious, it must be a serious matter. I know this sort of thinking isn't popular, which is why I posted it in this thread. So I'm sorry if I offended
you
Anyway, do I win the prize for most unpopular opinion?
«
Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 10:39:04 AM by (Stephen Newcombe)
»
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Mike's Beard
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Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #535 on:
August 22, 2013, 09:55:05 AM »
Quote from: (Stephen Newcombe) on August 22, 2013, 09:44:27 AM
Anyway, do I win the prize for most unpopular opinion?
Here, take thy crown.
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Micha
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #536 on:
August 22, 2013, 10:09:34 AM »
Quote from: (Stephen Newcombe) on August 22, 2013, 09:44:27 AM
Anyway, do I win the prize for most unpopular opinion?
So you still think you're the center of the universe?
Saw a WWII documentary today. Did you know Blitzkrieg was only possible because German soldiers were on crystal meth? The Allies only took speed.
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Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #537 on:
August 22, 2013, 10:38:06 AM »
.
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Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #538 on:
August 22, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »
Quote from: Micha on August 22, 2013, 10:09:34 AM
So you still think you're the center of the universe?
Legend in my own room
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Bill Tobelman
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #539 on:
August 23, 2013, 05:33:56 PM »
The Beach Boys are the best psychedelic group ever!
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Bill Tobelman
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #540 on:
August 23, 2013, 05:52:29 PM »
SMiLE was psychedelic, flower child, love generation stuff all the way!
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Bill Tobelman
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #541 on:
August 23, 2013, 06:04:19 PM »
Get on board & join the movement!
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Bill Tobelman
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #542 on:
August 23, 2013, 06:06:37 PM »
Brian was one of the beautiful people; a revolutionary!
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Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #543 on:
August 24, 2013, 02:09:17 AM »
Bill, this thread is for unpopular opinions, not stone cold facts.
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Mike's Beard
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Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #544 on:
August 24, 2013, 02:36:11 AM »
Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.
I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
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Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #545 on:
August 24, 2013, 02:39:20 AM »
BURN HIM!!!!
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Micha
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #546 on:
August 24, 2013, 06:47:57 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on August 24, 2013, 02:36:11 AM
Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.
I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
No, I can dig that. Too much two chords back and forth to make a better album than Pet Sounds. Some great arrangements though, music that was never heard before or since.
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clack
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #547 on:
August 24, 2013, 07:44:43 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on August 24, 2013, 02:36:11 AM
Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.
I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
I think Brian and the band should have saved themselves a lot of trouble by just finishing and releasing the songs, ditching the linking tracks, the collages, the standard covers, etc.
A 'Smile' with Surf's Up, Heroes & Villains, Cabinessence, Wonderful, etc. as discrete tracks (not part of some enormous double record suite), would still have had an impact if released in the spring of 1967. We could still get the completed Smile in 2004 and the box set in 2011, so no loss there.
And then the best of the non-Smile 'Smiley Smile' tracks combined with the best of the 'Wild Honey' ones would have provided another killer lp to end 1967 with. The band's reputation and commercial fortunes would have been very different if this alternative history had come to pass.
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alf wiedersehen
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #548 on:
August 24, 2013, 08:50:38 AM »
Quote from: clack on August 24, 2013, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on August 24, 2013, 02:36:11 AM
Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.
I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
I think Brian and the band should have saved themselves a lot of trouble by just finishing and releasing the songs, ditching the linking tracks, the collages, the standard covers, etc.
A 'Smile' with Surf's Up, Heroes & Villains, Cabinessence, Wonderful, etc. as discrete tracks (not part of some enormous double record suite), would still have had an impact if released in the spring of 1967. We could still get the completed Smile in 2004 and the box set in 2011, so no loss there.
And then the best of the non-Smile 'Smiley Smile' tracks combined with the best of the 'Wild Honey' ones would have provided another killer lp to end 1967 with. The band's reputation and commercial fortunes would have been very different if this alternative history had come to pass.
I doubt that, if Smile had been released in 1967, anything from either Smiley Smile or Wild Honey would have been made.
«
Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 08:51:34 AM by Bubbly Waves
»
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Niko
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Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions
«
Reply #549 on:
August 25, 2013, 07:55:57 PM »
Not a big fan of Cuddle Up. Not a bad song, but I honestly don't get what others find so incredible about it. I just find the song a bit lacking in substance.
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Check out the awesome Beach Boys mixes a few of us made:
Symphony to God:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18190.0.html
Dumb Angels:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18326.0.html
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http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22538.msg530237.html
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