gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 11:44:19 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 27 ... 65 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 348286 times)
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #525 on: August 22, 2013, 12:11:35 AM »

Here's one.

As much as I love him, I often find Brian harping on about his mental illness and abusive father quite irritating. After all, some people in the world have had it much worse without all the money and opportunities he has had. Some people in the world are starving and would laugh in his face (if they weren't too busy starving) when he talked about his problems.


Mental illness is not something that can be controlled.  If you went up to a person suffering from clinical depression and told them to cheer up because people in the world have it much worse, you're going to get some dirty looks.  Yeah, Brian has had huge success but all the love and money in the world isn't going to cure him, that's not how it works.

I know, I spent my 20's with clinical depression, and what a self obsessed little whiner I was. At the time I knew it was illness over which I had no control, but now, looking back, I think that was just excuses. There was plenty I could have done to have snapped out of it. Now I look back and I'm embarrassed, so no. I don't have time for it.

Did you know, in poor parts of the world there isn't such a thing as clinical depression. People are too bust trying to survive. Clinical depression is an invention of the mollycoddled west IMO.

My grandmother, who lived through the blitz and lost loved ones in the war used to ask me what I had to be depressed about, and I used to whine at her about how woeful my life was. How embarrassing this is for me now.

I get your point though, and Brian's illness was far worse than mine. BUT, like mine it was exasperated by drug use, so ultimately he is responsible. I try to retain my pity for people who deserve it, not rich rock stars who have never had to face reality.
Logged
Micha
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #526 on: August 22, 2013, 02:40:53 AM »

I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?
Logged

Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #527 on: August 22, 2013, 02:58:24 AM »

Quote
I know, I spent my 20's with clinical depression, and what a self obsessed little whiner I was. At the time I knew it was illness over which I had no control, but now, looking back, I think that was just excuses. There was plenty I could have done to have snapped out of it. Now I look back and I'm embarrassed, so no. I don't have time for it.

From how you're describing it, no, you seemingly didn't have clinical depression and don't seem to understand how it works at all.

Quote
Did you know, in poor parts of the world there isn't such a thing as clinical depression. People are too busy trying to survive.

Probably due to extremely poor medical care, lack of understanding of mental illness and, above all else, people with mental illness likely don't last nearly as long in those parts for a number of reasons. Lack of understanding and lack of documentation doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Quote
I get your point though, and Brian's illness was far worse than mine. BUT, like mine it was exasperated by drug use, so ultimately he is responsible. I try to retain my pity for people who deserve it, not rich rock stars who have never had to face reality.

Brian hearing voices and having hallucinations was just as likely to happen eventually had he never touched drugs. People go through this sh*t all the time without doing drugs. Ever. Merely existing can often be a total nightmare for them. Attitudes like yours only make things harder for them.

Are you really gonna tell someone with schizophrenia to "get over it" because other people have it worse? It's not a contest, for Christ's sake, and anyone living with mental illness in a non-poor area is likely well aware that others have it worse (which, in turn, can create even more guilt and shame than they already very much feel. Neat!). It doesn't prevent their brain from being broken to some extent. Think about it: who WANTS to be a broken, depressed failure who struggles just to exist? Standing in the kitchen making dinner and suddenly being struck with fear, panic, and loss of control? Sitting down after a long day and suddenly, without warning or reason, being absolutely overwhelmed and exhausted with sadness for no reason? Sounds like a shitty time, to me.

I don't think you'd tell a cancer patient, "Shape up, others have it much worse," so why come after people with genuine mental illness? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not going on or it's your place to judge if they're genuinely ill or not. Any disease will have its scam artists, plenty of people have faked having cancer to get money, does that mean we should have an attiitude and badger someone anytime they say they have cancer? The situation is the same here.

Hopefully you don't take this as an attack, I just can't get on board with this sort of thinking. It feels very regressive to me, only making the problem worse. Again, it's not a contest of who has it worse, here. You can be horribly, clinically depressed, ill-fit for this world and this life, and still be extremely compassionate toward those less fortunate than you are and appreciate that you have it better than they do and hey, you're lucky to be alive and still have a chance.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 03:44:30 AM by runnersdialzero » Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
Amazing Larry
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 552


There's a new daddy in town...


View Profile
« Reply #528 on: August 22, 2013, 03:08:25 AM »

Quote
I know, I spent my 20's with clinical depression, and what a self obsessed little whiner I was. At the time I knew it was illness over which I had no control, but now, looking back, I think that was just excuses. There was plenty I could have done to have snapped out of it. Now I look back and I'm embarrassed, so no. I don't have time for it.

From how you're describing it, no, you didn't have clinical depression and don't seem to understand how it works at all.

Quote
Did you know, in poor parts of the world there isn't such a thing as clinical depression. People are too busy trying to survive.

Probably due to extremely poor medical care, lack of understanding of mental illness and, above all else, people with mental illness likely don't last nearly as long in those parts for a number of reasons. Lack of understanding and lack of documentation doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Quote
I get your point though, and Brian's illness was far worse than mine. BUT, like mine it was exasperated by drug use, so ultimately he is responsible. I try to retain my pity for people who deserve it, not rich rock stars who have never had to face reality.

Brian hearing voices and having hallucinations was just as likely to happen eventually had he never touched drugs. People go through this sh*t all the time without doing drugs. Ever. Merely existing can often be a total nightmare for them. Attitudes like yours only make things harder for them.

Are you really gonna tell someone with schizophrenia to "get over it" because other people have it worse? It's not a contest, for Christ's sake, and anyone living with mental illness in a non-poor area is likely well aware that others have it worse (which, in turn, can create even more guilt and shame than they already very much feel. Neat!). It doesn't prevent their brain from being broken to some extent.

I don't think you'd tell a cancer patient "Shape up, others have it much worse," so why come after people with genuine mental illness? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not going on or it's your place to judge if they're genuinely ill or not.
Although I agree with you, Runners, don't you think you're being a little harsh?
Logged

A discipline daddy.
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #529 on: August 22, 2013, 03:12:45 AM »

See slightly revised version above. I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't going after him personally, this is just something I really disagree with him on. If I was harsh, it wasn't intentional and it was only because I feel this attitude toward mental illness, be it clinical depression to being fully mentally disabled, is pretty harsh, itself.
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #530 on: August 22, 2013, 03:12:57 AM »

I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?

It's either a reference to the air raid bombings over England during WW2 or the time granny unwisely ordered the chicken vindaloo.
Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Amazing Larry
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 552


There's a new daddy in town...


View Profile
« Reply #531 on: August 22, 2013, 03:39:08 AM »

I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?

It's either a reference to the air raid bombings over England during WW2 or the time granny unwisely ordered the chicken vindaloo.
Likely both.
Logged

A discipline daddy.
MBE
Guest
« Reply #532 on: August 22, 2013, 04:05:07 AM »

Brian's people letting so much press be done on the mental problems is perhaps sad in that it has sometimes overshadowed Brian creatively. As far as how he feels, until you walk in any mans shoes.....
Sure there are worse things than being Brian Wilson, but every one of us has our own personal problems to handle. Maybe a rich rock star has some cool things most don't but there are also demands and things you give up that are hard on the most stable of people. You can look up, you can look down, but in fighting his problems I see Brian as nothing but strong in that area.
Logged
Micha
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #533 on: August 22, 2013, 04:17:01 AM »

I'm not sure I interpret the phrase "lived through the blitz" correctly. Care to explain?

It's either a reference to the air raid bombings over England during WW2 or the time granny unwisely ordered the chicken vindaloo.
Likely both.

I was interpreting it as living in Poland in 1939, an I had to look up "vindaloo". Waiting for Stephen's explanation.


Are you really gonna tell someone with schizophrenia to "get over it" because other people have it worse?

...

I don't think you'd tell a cancer patient, "Shape up, others have it much worse," so why come after people with genuine mental illness?

To be fair, Stephen referred to depression only, not other mental of physical diseases.

I think he might be right that the western lifestyle makes the appearance of depression happen more often, but I disagree with him when he says it's their own fault, even when they take drugs.
Logged

Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #534 on: August 22, 2013, 09:44:27 AM »

Hitler's air raids. She lives to this day in Croydon, which was flattened.

Runners. I was diagnosed with clinical depression. Maybe the Doctor got it wrong. I was paranoid, thought that everyone could read my mind, thought I was centre of the universe. Self harmed, self hated, thought I was the next Mozart and that everyone should bow before me. Felt everything,  felt nothing. Whatever I had it wasn't good.

Since then, I've known people who have lost children, people who escaped war-torn countries. People who had a  parent commit suicide and they discovered them. I've had family members face and survive cancer with great fortitude. Made my problems seem like nothing. It made me feel ashamed. So this wasn't really an attack on Brian, or other celebrities, it was more an attack on myself. I suppose I'm like one of those annoying reformed smokers who turns dead against it.

Yes depression is an illness, a chemical inbalance, but it is treatable. I've known so many depression sufferers though (myself included) who didn't want to treat it, because it's far easier to blame the world for all your problems and hide behind a shield, than to do something about it. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh now. This is mainly self directed

Hopefully you don't take this as an attack, I just can't get on board with this sort of thinking. It feels very regressive to me, only making the problem worse. Again, it's not a contest of who has it worse, here. You can be horribly, clinically depressed, ill-fit for this world and this life, and still be extremely compassionate toward those less fortunate than you are and appreciate that you have it better than they do and hey, you're lucky to be alive and still have a chance.

Of course I don't take it as an attack, although I know when you start being serious, it must be a serious matter. I know this sort of thinking isn't popular, which is why I posted it in this thread. So I'm sorry if I offended you

Anyway, do I win the prize for most unpopular opinion?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 10:39:04 AM by (Stephen Newcombe) » Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #535 on: August 22, 2013, 09:55:05 AM »




Anyway, do I win the prize for most unpopular opinion?

Here, take thy crown.  Grin
Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Micha
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #536 on: August 22, 2013, 10:09:34 AM »

Anyway, do I win the prize for most unpopular opinion?

So you still think you're the center of the universe? Roll Eyes

Saw a WWII documentary today. Did you know Blitzkrieg was only possible because German soldiers were on crystal meth? The Allies only took speed.
Logged

Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #537 on: August 22, 2013, 10:38:06 AM »

.
Logged
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #538 on: August 22, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »


So you still think you're the center of the universe? Roll Eyes


Legend in my own room
Logged
Bill Tobelman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 537



View Profile WWW
« Reply #539 on: August 23, 2013, 05:33:56 PM »

The Beach Boys are the best psychedelic group ever!
Logged

"Connect, Always Connect..." - Arthur Koestler

"No discovery has ever been made by logical deduction..." - Arthur Koestler
Bill Tobelman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 537



View Profile WWW
« Reply #540 on: August 23, 2013, 05:52:29 PM »

SMiLE was psychedelic, flower child, love generation stuff all the way!
Logged

"Connect, Always Connect..." - Arthur Koestler

"No discovery has ever been made by logical deduction..." - Arthur Koestler
Bill Tobelman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 537



View Profile WWW
« Reply #541 on: August 23, 2013, 06:04:19 PM »

Get on board & join the movement!
Logged

"Connect, Always Connect..." - Arthur Koestler

"No discovery has ever been made by logical deduction..." - Arthur Koestler
Bill Tobelman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 537



View Profile WWW
« Reply #542 on: August 23, 2013, 06:06:37 PM »

Brian was one of the beautiful people; a revolutionary!
Logged

"Connect, Always Connect..." - Arthur Koestler

"No discovery has ever been made by logical deduction..." - Arthur Koestler
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #543 on: August 24, 2013, 02:09:17 AM »

Bill, this thread is for unpopular opinions, not stone cold facts.
Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #544 on: August 24, 2013, 02:36:11 AM »

Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.

I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #545 on: August 24, 2013, 02:39:20 AM »

BURN HIM!!!!
Logged
Micha
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #546 on: August 24, 2013, 06:47:57 AM »

Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.

I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"


No, I can dig that. Too much two chords back and forth to make a better album than Pet Sounds. Some great arrangements though, music that was never heard before or since.
Logged

Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
clack
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 537


View Profile
« Reply #547 on: August 24, 2013, 07:44:43 AM »

Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.

I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
I think Brian and the band should have saved themselves a lot of trouble by just finishing and releasing the songs, ditching the linking tracks, the collages, the standard covers, etc.

A 'Smile' with Surf's Up, Heroes & Villains, Cabinessence, Wonderful, etc. as discrete tracks (not part of some enormous double record suite), would still have had an impact if released in the spring of 1967. We could still get the completed Smile in 2004 and the box set in 2011, so no loss there.

And then the best of the non-Smile 'Smiley Smile' tracks combined with the best of the 'Wild Honey' ones would have provided another killer lp to end 1967 with. The band's reputation and commercial fortunes would have been very different if this alternative history had come to pass.
Logged
alf wiedersehen
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2178


View Profile
« Reply #548 on: August 24, 2013, 08:50:38 AM »

Or to look at it from another perspective, Smile on the whole is rather overrated. I seem to be the only BB fan on here that doesn't love it as much as I'm apparently supposed to. Yes it has 5 or 6 songs of some of their best stuff ever, but the rest? Novelty song filler redeemed by fantastic vocals, endless reruns of the same theme, VDP's "look at me, I'm an intellect!" lyrics and the overall feeling that Brian's trying too hard to achieve what should come naturally.

I listened to it the other day and when I heard Barnyard, You Are My Sunshine, Vegetables etc... I honesty thought "Really? This was going to revolutionize the pop music industry?"
I think Brian and the band should have saved themselves a lot of trouble by just finishing and releasing the songs, ditching the linking tracks, the collages, the standard covers, etc.

A 'Smile' with Surf's Up, Heroes & Villains, Cabinessence, Wonderful, etc. as discrete tracks (not part of some enormous double record suite), would still have had an impact if released in the spring of 1967. We could still get the completed Smile in 2004 and the box set in 2011, so no loss there.

And then the best of the non-Smile 'Smiley Smile' tracks combined with the best of the 'Wild Honey' ones would have provided another killer lp to end 1967 with. The band's reputation and commercial fortunes would have been very different if this alternative history had come to pass.

I doubt that, if Smile had been released in 1967, anything from either Smiley Smile or Wild Honey would have been made.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 08:51:34 AM by Bubbly Waves » Logged
Niko
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 1617



View Profile
« Reply #549 on: August 25, 2013, 07:55:57 PM »

Not a big fan of Cuddle Up. Not a bad song, but I honestly don't get what others find so incredible about it. I just find the song a bit lacking in substance.
Logged

gfx
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 27 ... 65 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.463 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!