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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 348161 times)
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« Reply #300 on: June 24, 2013, 12:45:12 PM »

I think the latter was key...I think even if Brian didn't have a breakdown, he wouldn't have been able to complete Smile due to the technological limitations of the time. Hell, my personal belief has long been that Brian realized that at some point, and that kind of led him down that slippery slope.
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« Reply #301 on: June 24, 2013, 12:47:55 PM »

I remember reading a theory on here that Brian canned Smile because he thought it was garbage.

I think that's not very far fetched
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« Reply #302 on: June 24, 2013, 12:51:27 PM »

I remember reading a theory on here that Brian canned Smile because he thought it was garbage.

I think that's not very far fetched

I think he began to tell himself and convince himself that it was garbage. I don't think he wanted to think that way, but that he simply had to in order to escape the gravitational pull the project had come to exert upon him.
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« Reply #303 on: June 24, 2013, 12:52:52 PM »

Forever is one of the most overrated songs in the entire BB canon. It's a nice enough song, but of the Sunflower tracks, Slip On Through is the superior Dennis song with Forever ranking nearer Our Sweet Love or Tears In The Morning (I like both of those songs though admittedly).
That's your opinion. I think it's not just one of Dennis' best songs, but one of the best songs The Beach Boys ever recorded.
Lady is a total dud.
Again, that's your opinion. I think it's a brilliant song.
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« Reply #304 on: June 24, 2013, 12:54:15 PM »

Forever is one of the most overrated songs in the entire BB canon. It's a nice enough song, but of the Sunflower tracks, Slip On Through is the superior Dennis song with Forever ranking nearer Our Sweet Love or Tears In The Morning (I like both of those songs though admittedly).
That's your opinion. I think it's not just one of Dennis' best songs, but one of the best songs The Beach Boys ever recorded.
Lady is a total dud.
Again, that's your opinion. I think it's a brilliant song.

It goes without saying it's my opinion...I mean, need I point to the title of the thread here? I know a lot of people will definitely disagree with me here, but I feel like there are probably other fans out there who are as lukewarm on Forever as I am but rarely speak up about it because of the canonical status granted it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:55:49 PM by Dr. John Becker » Logged

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« Reply #305 on: June 24, 2013, 12:57:56 PM »

BW's movie should be about the rise and fall of SMiLE. It would be a classic if the screen writers could express all the factors in the collapse of the album and BW's fall.
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« Reply #306 on: June 24, 2013, 01:12:00 PM »

BW's movie should be about the rise and fall of SMiLE. It would be a classic if the screen writers could express all the factors in the collapse of the album and BW's fall.

I really hope it's about different eras of his life. SMiLE era is cool and all, but I'd rather see more focus on '77-'78 Brian: Imagine him pounding away on a farty synth, belting out unintelligible cocaine addled words - all of this booming out of 8 story theatre speakers.

I hope the message of the film is that he brought happiness and joy to millions and millions of people - which brought him pain and confusion - but he started using music to heal himself.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 01:15:08 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #307 on: June 24, 2013, 02:06:28 PM »

It will be about different aspects of his life, hence why Paul Dano and John Cusack are both playing him.
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« Reply #308 on: June 24, 2013, 02:23:45 PM »

The reason The Beach Boys can be mentioned in the sentence as The Beatles is due solely to Brian Wilson.

Of course. But it doesn't mean the other band members had 'little talent' as you put it.
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« Reply #309 on: June 24, 2013, 02:33:46 PM »

Back to unpopular opinions.

Carl looked grouchy after he'd grown that beard.

His only good songs were Angel Come Home, Livin' With A Heartache, and Heaven, and none of them are as good as Surf Jam!
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« Reply #310 on: June 24, 2013, 02:42:10 PM »

It will be about different aspects of his life, hence why Paul Dano and John Cusack are both playing him.

Not if Dano plays him in '66 and Cusack plays him in '67. Or if they keep swopping around. Or if there's two Brians at once. Wacky eh? Maybe I should write the screenplay
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 02:45:21 PM by (Stephen Newcombe) » Logged
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« Reply #311 on: June 24, 2013, 03:38:07 PM »

The reason The Beach Boys can be mentioned in the sentence as The Beatles is due solely to Brian Wilson.

Of course. But it doesn't mean the other band members had 'little talent' as you put it.

Yeah but I meant "little" relative to the more collaborative outputs of most other comparable groups.
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« Reply #312 on: June 24, 2013, 03:39:18 PM »

It will be about different aspects of his life, hence why Paul Dano and John Cusack are both playing him.

Not if Dano plays him in '66 and Cusack plays him in '67. Or if they keep swopping around. Or if there's two Brians at once. Wacky eh? Maybe I should write the screenplay

Sounds like a screenplay Brian himself would have written circa 1967.
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« Reply #313 on: June 24, 2013, 03:42:49 PM »

I really dislike overreaching biopics, biopics that try to cram too long a period into a single film and struggle to maintain any semblance of continuity by means of increasingly crappy makeup jobs.

Lawrence of Arabia really works because it doesn't overextend in hopelessly trying to portray every significant event of his life from cradle to grave. I just hate movies that do that. Everything is cramped and disconnected, months and even years pass between scenes with little indication to the viewer as to how much time is supposed to have gone by besides some subtle, neigh imperceptible makeup tweaks. Even good biopics that go this route suffer enormously from biting off much more than they can chew, like Gandhi. As good of a film as Gandhi is, it really lacks an internal sense of coherency, the first time I saw it I really didn't understand that many of the early scenes were still supposed to be in South Africa.

I think the trick is, as shown by Lawrence of Arabia, is to make a single, digestible stretch of time symbolic of the entire life of the individual. The problem tends to be that some viewers are very literal, and frankly small minded, and get upset if every important event of the individual's experiences isn't portrayed in turn. That's ultimately why I have little faith in a Brian Wilson biopic that tries to overdiversify.

If you just made a movie about the Smile period, or the mid-70s, or the first or second Landy eras, if you focused exclusively on one of those periods you'd have some contingent of fans showing up to express dissatisfaction *this* event wasn't given any screen time, or that the events of *that* period weren't depicted. To be honest, I would be exceedingly happy with any of the above films, and I would rather have a single good movie focusing on just one of the periods than one watered down bad one that tried too hard to accommodate everything. To do otherwise is putting too much emphasis on the parts and not enough on the whole.
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« Reply #314 on: June 24, 2013, 03:48:38 PM »

I have to agree with you on those points. I was initially worried when I heard it was the screenwriter of "I'm Not There" and could picture a similar effort falling flat. Well, the critics would love it but I'd get bored after working out the references and injokes. Miranda Richardson as Murry Wilson. Richard Gere as Mike AND Stan Love having conversations with himself. God, I'm tired of irony and tricksy this or that. Just tell a good story about characters I care about!

 But he also worked on "Rampart" with James Ellroy and that was a nice small, effective character piece. The casting seems encouraging.

My vote (that nobody sane would care about) is definitely for a Smile or Landyfication feature, you could really focus and even an idiot executive could sigh and burble on nonsensically about the "character arc" as if they understand a fuckin' thing about writing.

 But those movies won't be made until everybody is dead.

This movie is going to practically saint Brian, combined with the memoirs and media barrage turning him into even more of a cartoon idiot savant character that will reduce the Mike and Bruce Boosters to frothing rage for years to come. You guys complained about David Leaf? You're about to get that times ten. Well, you'll always have the Stamos version.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 04:05:15 PM by ontor pertawst » Logged
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« Reply #315 on: June 24, 2013, 04:03:07 PM »

Bring on the sainthood of BW!!! LOL
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #316 on: June 24, 2013, 04:04:26 PM »

I'll sell you some of his beard hair from 1976. I'm told it can heal the sick.

I guess you'd have to chew it or something.
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« Reply #317 on: June 24, 2013, 04:16:28 PM »

I never realized Jeff Foskett was somehow unpopular until reading these boards.
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« Reply #318 on: June 24, 2013, 04:27:58 PM »

He's not. There's just a half dozen guys who really, really, really don't like him.
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« Reply #319 on: June 24, 2013, 04:44:08 PM »

That's because when he stays at their house, he pisses the couch and then turns the cushions over and pretends it's a "joke" if they call him on it. Well, I'm calling him on it.
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« Reply #320 on: June 24, 2013, 04:59:58 PM »

Poppy's been sloppy.
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« Reply #321 on: June 24, 2013, 05:59:16 PM »

Poppy's been sloppy.

Tee-hee.
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« Reply #322 on: June 24, 2013, 08:24:04 PM »

Speaking of production, I think Imagination is WAY closer to Pet Sounds than anything Brian did in the period between those records.  It and BW88 are night and day.  They've both got some great songs on it but BW88 is probably the most dated sounding album in the band's entire catalog.  And that was 1988 (not 1983)!  Those Linn drums were ALREADY dated by then.  Comparatively, Imagination gets knocked for it's "Adult Contemporary" sound.  I must ask if the critics in that camp think "Let's Go Away For A While" is a Rock song?  Clarinets, stacked, on key vocals (albeit produced within an inch of their lives but I don't care).  Classic melodies from the prime of Brian's life like "Sherry She Needs Me", "Let Him Run Wild", "My Solution".  Yeah.  It may have lacked the inventiveness of "Rio Grande" but it didn't have any really dumb lyrics either.  The best stuff on BW88 had more to do with the collaborators than Brian.

Well said! Totally agree!!  Pirate  Great point about how many overlook/excuse/tolerate BW88's production, while others can't get over Imagination's "slickness."  If it's the same people... they got some 'splainin to do!

Dennis was a PALE shadow of his former greatness (which even at his peak could rival Bruce in terms of sheer schlockiness!) by the time of Endless Summer.  It's a shame but that's how it is to me (remember these are all opinions, and unpopular ones, at that).  Worse, his voice practically ruins his contributions to MIU and LA.  The only reason they stand out is that most of the other stuff is rehashed, boring, or both.  I really do wish Mike had gotten the boot at some point and been replaced by Dennis and I wish Dennis would have followed doctors' order and healed his GD voice!  Like David, Dennis went under-appreciated for too long but I feel the pendulum has swung just a bit too far in his favor lately.  Serious talent, seriously wasted by the end.

Yeah... good points.  I think, unlike Brian, Denny didn't have his childhood to explore and grow his muse and musical abilities.  He spent it other ways!  But he eventually learned on the job... in public.  As you might expect, some of his stuff as a result, is both sophomoric and brilliant at the same time.

The thing about him is, he had a narrative -- a well of deep emotions that inspired him.  As did Brian.  The sh-t you can't buy or teach.  But Brian had a super brain to sort out the crazy mathematical harmonies.  Denny's was an unmanned fire hose, flappin' on the street.  When he was in command of it, his stuff really stood out from the rest.  Makes you stop what you're doing and go "... what is this?"
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« Reply #323 on: June 24, 2013, 09:05:36 PM »

Speaking of production, I think Imagination is WAY closer to Pet Sounds than anything Brian did in the period between those records.  It and BW88 are night and day.  They've both got some great songs on it but BW88 is probably the most dated sounding album in the band's entire catalog.  And that was 1988 (not 1983)!  Those Linn drums were ALREADY dated by then.  Comparatively, Imagination gets knocked for it's "Adult Contemporary" sound.  I must ask if the critics in that camp think "Let's Go Away For A While" is a Rock song?  Clarinets, stacked, on key vocals (albeit produced within an inch of their lives but I don't care).  Classic melodies from the prime of Brian's life like "Sherry She Needs Me", "Let Him Run Wild", "My Solution".  Yeah.  It may have lacked the inventiveness of "Rio Grande" but it didn't have any really dumb lyrics either.  The best stuff on BW88 had more to do with the collaborators than Brian.

Well said! Totally agree!!  Pirate  Great point about how many overlook/excuse/tolerate BW88's production, while others can't get over Imagination's "slickness."  If it's the same people... they got some 'splainin to do!

Why, thanks!  It's nice to hear I'm not the only one with some of these opinions.  Smiley



He's not. There's just a half dozen guys who really, really, really don't like him.

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« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 09:09:00 PM by Phoenix » Logged
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« Reply #324 on: June 25, 2013, 01:30:08 AM »

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”


Writing and arranging all or the basis of "Little Bird", "Be Still", "Be With Me", "All I Want To Do", "Let The Wind Blow", "Slip On Through", "Got To Know The Woman", "Deirdre", "It's About Time", "Tears In The Morning", "Lady", "Sound Of Free", "A Time To Live In Dreams", "Barbara", "All I Wanna Do", "Forever", "Feel Flows", "Don't Go Near The Water", "Long Promised Road", "Take A Load Off Your Feet", "Disney Girls", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", "All This Is That", "Make It Good", "Cuddle Up", "The Trader", "Big Sur", "Steamboat", "On My Way To Sunny Californ-i-a", "Holy Man", "San Miguel", "4th Of July", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Only With You", "River Song", "Thoughts Of You", "Farewell My Friend", "Forever", "Angel Come Home", "Where I Belong", "Baby Blue", "Getcha Back", "Keepin' The Summer Alive", etc. etc. etc. etc. as well as numerous great production jobs = "little talent".

I realize the songs here vary in quality, but at the very least, I feel they all (as well as other songs written by non-Brians) have something worthwhile to offer. This isn't even including their numerous contributions to Brian's songs. SHEESH.

P.S. What are some bands of "comparable prestige" and why do they matter in this context?

Prestige is not the right word. But I mentioned The Beatles and Rolling Stones as being in a comparable category to the Beach Boys. I'd have to think about which other bands would fit in there, but you get the idea.

I'm not saying the group had no talent. And I know they all played a part in influencing the band's music (Mike as lyricist/frontman, Carl and David with rock n roll guitars, etc.). But relative to other elite bands with more balanced collaborative approaches, the Beach Boys consisted of one genius surrounded by a group of competent musicians. Many non-Brian songs were definitely good. But almost none of them reached the artistic zenith of Brian's compositions. That even includes Sunflower, which although it could be argued is certainly one of the band's best albums, doesn't have individual songs which demonstrate the same level of dexterity as Brian's work. Once again, the band was capable of creating good music, but it simply didn't reach the same level of quality as the Brian-directed incarnation. Let me put it another way. The reason The Beach Boys can be mentioned in the sentence as The Beatles is due solely to Brian Wilson.

But that implies that the Rolling Stones and The Beatles are good bands...

The Beach Boys were robbed of their recognition and few people know of them today outside of the Anglo-sphere. In my opinion, the Beach Boys were the best thing to ever happen to pop but sadly most of the world buys into the dreck that the Rolling Stones and Beatles put out, at which Rolling Stone Magazine completely creams their shorts over and gives 5 out of 5 for everything, even including the Beatles' lame debut album on their top 500.

The world knows The Beach Boys through Brian, yes, but don't be a pleb and think that therefore only makes Brian songs good because they are well known. Don't make me get Piero Scaruffi on you.
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