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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 348086 times)
Pretty Funky
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« Reply #275 on: June 23, 2013, 06:11:27 PM »

Ok...here goes. Embarrassed

It was great having Dave play the C50. His surf guitar rocked as did his 'Getcha Back' lead. I was a huge supporter of his all things C50 last year and it was great seeing him live for the first time.

But I did not feel comfortable listening to his 'Pet Sounds' onstage, nor the live album version. Perhaps I am spoiled having heard Brians band during the PS live tour, plus of course the original album version.

Can the guitar players among you put me in my place?
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« Reply #276 on: June 23, 2013, 06:17:27 PM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.
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« Reply #277 on: June 23, 2013, 06:32:08 PM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

I'm completely with you on the appreciation for Still Cruisin' & Kokomo.  I think they're great songs; the Boys could have (and actually have on occasion) done much worse.  Lots of folks 'round these parts would just as soon those two songs never happened.  The main problem, I think, is that Brian was not involved.  Ok, so he wasn't....we need to get over it.  Another problem is that Kokomo got wayyyyy overplayed.  Still Cruisin' certainly didn't.  Doesn't make sense to me.
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« Reply #278 on: June 23, 2013, 06:39:39 PM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

It's not sacrilege to love Kokomo or Still Cruisin (well maybe it is around these parts). Still Crusin is totally irresistible. Bruce and Al steal the show on that song.

My unpopular opinion..

Bruce Springsteen's cover of "When I Grow Up To Be A Man" is kinda better than The Beach Boys version.
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« Reply #279 on: June 23, 2013, 06:42:34 PM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

Still Crusin is totally irresistible.

 Thud
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« Reply #280 on: June 23, 2013, 06:48:11 PM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

Still Crusin is totally irresistible.

 Thud

No, I wouldn't exactly call it a knockout; just a great catchy tune!
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Shady
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« Reply #281 on: June 23, 2013, 06:49:10 PM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

Still Crusin is totally irresistible.

 Thud

My bad. I was meant to say "Still Crusin is totally irresistible...to everyone but Ted Danson"
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« Reply #282 on: June 23, 2013, 06:53:35 PM »

Your unpopular opinion displeases Becker
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« Reply #283 on: June 24, 2013, 08:12:17 AM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.
I rarely listen to other people's opinions on the likes and dislikes of music. If you like it and it moves you, then it is GOOD, no matter what anyone else thinks.
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Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
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« Reply #284 on: June 24, 2013, 08:53:19 AM »

Here are a few "unpopular" opinions I hold:

--The Beach Boys have a ton of amazing songs, but almost no good albums.
--Brian is almost entirely to blame for Smile not being released. His vision for the project was insanely ambitious. Facing such a difficult project under the influence of drugs, he did not have the necessary motivation to finish it. If he really wanted Smile to be released--no matter what Mike or the other band members thought of the album--it would have been released. Brian's lack of confidence and technological limitations of the 60s are the primary reasons the project stalled.

And here’s an opinion of mine that is accepted among general fans/critics but not hard core Beach Boy fans:

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”
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« Reply #285 on: June 24, 2013, 09:07:55 AM »

--Brian is almost entirely to blame for Smile not being released. His vision for the project was insanely ambitious. Facing such a difficult project under the influence of drugs, he did not have the necessary motivation to finish it. If he really wanted Smile to be released--no matter what Mike or the other band members thought of the album--it would have been released. Brian's lack of confidence and technological limitations of the 60s are the primary reasons the project stalled.

Not unpopular on this site. That's the official party line here. Personally I think there's some truth in all the reasons we've been given.
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« Reply #286 on: June 24, 2013, 09:16:49 AM »

--Brian is almost entirely to blame for Smile not being released. His vision for the project was insanely ambitious. Facing such a difficult project under the influence of drugs, he did not have the necessary motivation to finish it. If he really wanted Smile to be released--no matter what Mike or the other band members thought of the album--it would have been released. Brian's lack of confidence and technological limitations of the 60s are the primary reasons the project stalled.

Not unpopular on this site. That's the official party line here. Personally I think there's some truth in all the reasons we've been given.

Yeah, I must agree. Even as an objective, fair and balanced fan of both Brian and the Beach Boys collectively, Brian was the one most responsible for Smile not being released.
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« Reply #287 on: June 24, 2013, 09:18:51 AM »

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

Kokomo's a classic, plain and simple. There's a reason it was huge. Still Cruisin' is a nice "retro" tune, kind of like a sequel to Getcha Back. Somewhere Near Japan is the big treasure on that album.
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« Reply #288 on: June 24, 2013, 10:01:08 AM »

--Brian is almost entirely to blame for Smile not being released. His vision for the project was insanely ambitious. Facing such a difficult project under the influence of drugs, he did not have the necessary motivation to finish it. If he really wanted Smile to be released--no matter what Mike or the other band members thought of the album--it would have been released. Brian's lack of confidence and technological limitations of the 60s are the primary reasons the project stalled.

Not unpopular on this site. That's the official party line here. Personally I think there's some truth in all the reasons we've been given.

Yeah, I must agree. Even as an objective, fair and balanced fan of both Brian and the Beach Boys collectively, Brian was the one most responsible for Smile not being released.

Well, I'm no great Mike fan, but it's been a bit too convenient to blame him all these years. Ultimately the decision was Brian's.
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« Reply #289 on: June 24, 2013, 10:05:52 AM »

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”


Writing and arranging all or the basis of "Little Bird", "Be Still", "Be With Me", "All I Want To Do", "Let The Wind Blow", "Slip On Through", "Got To Know The Woman", "Deirdre", "It's About Time", "Tears In The Morning", "Lady", "Sound Of Free", "A Time To Live In Dreams", "Barbara", "All I Wanna Do", "Forever", "Feel Flows", "Don't Go Near The Water", "Long Promised Road", "Take A Load Off Your Feet", "Disney Girls", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", "All This Is That", "Make It Good", "Cuddle Up", "The Trader", "Big Sur", "Steamboat", "On My Way To Sunny Californ-i-a", "Holy Man", "San Miguel", "4th Of July", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Only With You", "River Song", "Thoughts Of You", "Farewell My Friend", "Forever", "Angel Come Home", "Where I Belong", "Baby Blue", "Getcha Back", "Keepin' The Summer Alive", etc. etc. etc. etc. as well as numerous great production jobs = "little talent".

I realize the songs here vary in quality, but at the very least, I feel they all (as well as other songs written by non-Brians) have something worthwhile to offer. This isn't even including their numerous contributions to Brian's songs. SHEESH.

P.S. What are some bands of "comparable prestige" and why do they matter in this context?
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« Reply #290 on: June 24, 2013, 10:09:49 AM »

--Brian is almost entirely to blame for Smile not being released. His vision for the project was insanely ambitious. Facing such a difficult project under the influence of drugs, he did not have the necessary motivation to finish it. If he really wanted Smile to be released--no matter what Mike or the other band members thought of the album--it would have been released. Brian's lack of confidence and technological limitations of the 60s are the primary reasons the project stalled.

Not unpopular on this site. That's the official party line here. Personally I think there's some truth in all the reasons we've been given.

Yeah, I must agree. Even as an objective, fair and balanced fan of both Brian and the Beach Boys collectively, Brian was the one most responsible for Smile not being released.

Well, I'm no great Mike fan, but it's been a bit too convenient to blame him all these years. Ultimately the decision was Brian's.

A simple truth, yet one that eludes even the most perceptive of fans.
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« Reply #291 on: June 24, 2013, 10:23:02 AM »

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”

I don't know if I'd say that the others had little talent outside of being good singers.

Dennis may not have been a technically "great" drummer like a Ginger Baker, Keith Moon, or John Bonham, but can you really imagine anyone else drumming for them back in their heyday? Dennis had the power that the music demanded. His later skills as a songwriter and producer are second only to Brian's.

There's much to say now about Michael being "untalented" (usually from revisionist Brianistas who have semen-stained copies of the Leaf toilet paper), but there's a reason Brian wanted him as the frontman and never had him replaced. Michael is one of the best frontmen ever in rock music.

Bruce was hired by Columbia Records as a producer for a very good reason - Columbia Records (the label who, at the time, had former and current ranks consisting of Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis, Tony Bennett, and Duke Ellington among many others) didn't just hire ANYONE to be on their production staff. To claim the guy is untalented is just ignorant in the extreme. But hey, that's what this thread is for, right?

Blondie and Ricky were already established pop stars in South Africa. I wouldn't exactly call them untalented either instrumentally or vocally.

David's a fine guitarist and vocalist. True, he developed that talent largely outside of the Beach Boys, but that doesn't change anything.
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« Reply #292 on: June 24, 2013, 10:32:26 AM »

I think, on the most basic level, Brian was simply overwhelmed by all the possibilities his imagination was suggesting to him in that period. He had more ideas than hours in the day to record them. Further complicating things were all the resources he had at his disposal. He had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted, seemingly unlimited funds, the latest and greatest equipment and the newest and coolest instruments on the market, half a dozen legendary studios to record at, and an army of professional musicians at his beck and call every hour of every day.

There's a misconception that the artist begins with nothing, with a blank slate or blank canvas, and from there creates *something*. That he moves from zero to infinity in his artistic process. That's really not the case though. The artist begins with an infinite number of possibilities, and from there he has to limit himself down to one. That self-limitation is incredibly difficult though when you're an ambitious young artist hitting your peak, you naturally want to include everything and somehow capture that whole infinity your intuiting. It's here I think Brian went off the rails, and why he moved to the home studio. He had too many options. Too many colors to paint with. The home studio was an artificial self constraint he imposed upon himself simply to remove the temptations he was being confronted with.

In a sense it was Brian's fault Smile wasn't finished. It's hard to say where precisely he went wrong, or what he might have done to overcome the issues he was facing though. Part of the problem I think stemmed from a lack of emotional self-awareness, but another part was likely also a lack of technical ability. Brian was (and perhaps still is) a very gifted musician, but unlike composers of the 19th century, he never received the sort of formal training one requires for high level artistic mastery. There was essentially only so much he could learn on his own and through experience, and in the smile period he began to hit a brick wall in terms of the amount of articulation his technical skill-sets allowed at that degree of refinement he had managed to bring them to.

However, I think it was the pressure put on him by Mike and the rest of the group that really drove these underlying frustrations home. They were simmering in the pot, and it was the heat they added that really brought the whole situation to a boil. It's useless to say who truly was at fault. Whether or not anyone interfered with him or pressured him I believe is irrelevant, Brian would not have been able to complete Smile regardless. Mike and the other band members may have brought things to head more quickly than they otherwise would have been certainly, but if it hadn't of been them, it would have only been something else that eventually catalysed Brian's abandonment of the project. To finish Smile it would have taken greater powers than Brian actually possessed, an emotional strength that only Brian Wilson was in any position to ultimately gift. It would have taken a recognition of his own limitations and weaknesses. What was needed, ultimately, was the renunciation of all those unfulfillable aspirations he had to realize the infinite for the sake of realizing the finite and definite artwork he was actually capable of, and that sort of sacrifice was simply beyond him both intellectually and emotionally.
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« Reply #293 on: June 24, 2013, 10:33:42 AM »

(usually from revisionist Brianistas who have semen-stained copies of the Leaf toilet paper)

I thought I'd found all those cameras.
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« Reply #294 on: June 24, 2013, 10:49:56 AM »

Here are a few "unpopular" opinions I hold:



--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”

Could you name any other 60's band with six singer songwriters? (People talk about the Buffalo Springfield and Moby Grape with 4 singer-songwriters each as being enormously talented).
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« Reply #295 on: June 24, 2013, 11:47:29 AM »

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”


Dennis: Talented singer, songwriter and producer. Powerful drummer and competent piano player. Co-wrote You Are So Beautiful, a pop classic. Made a highly acclaimed solo album. Wrote Forever, Little Bird, Lady, River Song, Baby Blue. Starred in an excellent movie.

Carl: Excellent singer. Could produce. Played lead guitar in a world famous band at age 15. Wrote Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Trader.

Mike: Co-wrote and sang lead on most of their classic hits. Wrote Big Sur.

Al: Sang lead on a US #1 hit and two UK top 5 hits. Wrote Lady Lynda (UK #7). Competent guitarist and producer.

Bruce: Wrote a Grammy Award winning song. Was a succesful singer, session musician and producer even before he became a Beach Boy. Excellent pianist.
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« Reply #296 on: June 24, 2013, 12:21:11 PM »

Dennis: Talented singer, songwriter and producer. Powerful drummer and competent piano player. Co-wrote You Are So Beautiful, a pop classic. Made a highly acclaimed solo album. Wrote Forever, Little Bird, Lady, River Song, Baby Blue. Starred in an excellent movie.

Forever is one of the most overrated songs in the entire BB canon. It's a nice enough song, but of the Sunflower tracks, Slip On Through is the superior Dennis song with Forever ranking nearer Our Sweet Love or Tears In The Morning (I like both of those songs though admittedly).

Little Bird is one of my favorite BB tracks on the other hand, but though Dennis may have written it, I can't help but get the impression that Brian lent more than a helping hand on the arrangement and production, which is really what makes the whole thing work as well as it does.

Lady is a total dud.

I mean, I agree Dennis is a wonderfully talented part of the band, but I don't think you're making the most convincing case.
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« Reply #297 on: June 24, 2013, 12:31:58 PM »

Can't believe that anyone has to even make a case as to why Dennis had more than "little talent".
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« Reply #298 on: June 24, 2013, 12:34:30 PM »

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”


Writing and arranging all or the basis of "Little Bird", "Be Still", "Be With Me", "All I Want To Do", "Let The Wind Blow", "Slip On Through", "Got To Know The Woman", "Deirdre", "It's About Time", "Tears In The Morning", "Lady", "Sound Of Free", "A Time To Live In Dreams", "Barbara", "All I Wanna Do", "Forever", "Feel Flows", "Don't Go Near The Water", "Long Promised Road", "Take A Load Off Your Feet", "Disney Girls", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", "All This Is That", "Make It Good", "Cuddle Up", "The Trader", "Big Sur", "Steamboat", "On My Way To Sunny Californ-i-a", "Holy Man", "San Miguel", "4th Of July", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Only With You", "River Song", "Thoughts Of You", "Farewell My Friend", "Forever", "Angel Come Home", "Where I Belong", "Baby Blue", "Getcha Back", "Keepin' The Summer Alive", etc. etc. etc. etc. as well as numerous great production jobs = "little talent".

I realize the songs here vary in quality, but at the very least, I feel they all (as well as other songs written by non-Brians) have something worthwhile to offer. This isn't even including their numerous contributions to Brian's songs. SHEESH.

P.S. What are some bands of "comparable prestige" and why do they matter in this context?

Prestige is not the right word. But I mentioned The Beatles and Rolling Stones as being in a comparable category to the Beach Boys. I'd have to think about which other bands would fit in there, but you get the idea.

I'm not saying the group had no talent. And I know they all played a part in influencing the band's music (Mike as lyricist/frontman, Carl and David with rock n roll guitars, etc.). But relative to other elite bands with more balanced collaborative approaches, the Beach Boys consisted of one genius surrounded by a group of competent musicians. Many non-Brian songs were definitely good. But almost none of them reached the artistic zenith of Brian's compositions. That even includes Sunflower, which although it could be argued is certainly one of the band's best albums, doesn't have individual songs which demonstrate the same level of dexterity as Brian's work. Once again, the band was capable of creating good music, but it simply didn't reach the same level of quality as the Brian-directed incarnation. Let me put it another way. The reason The Beach Boys can be mentioned in the sentence as The Beatles is due solely to Brian Wilson.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:37:38 PM by Smile4ever » Logged
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« Reply #299 on: June 24, 2013, 12:41:31 PM »

Dr. John Becker, I agree with your assessment of Smile. The project was simply too overwhelming to even produce, especially considering Brian's limits, and those of 1960s technology itself.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:43:33 PM by Smile4ever » Logged
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