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Author Topic: MiC up for order on Amazon, August release  (Read 437955 times)
Nicko1234
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« Reply #1475 on: June 21, 2013, 09:04:52 AM »

Were that the case - and it's patently not - then none of the hits would have been included. A shining example of a set aimed squarely at the hardcore fanbase is Hawthorne CA. MiC was compiled to appeal to as many people as possible.

I'm not sure about that. In your words the Beach Boys Classics CD was 'essentially fan-oriented' and yet that had loads of hits on it.

I do agree though that Capitol will want some people other than hardcore fans to buy this set. But including a collectors book and giving it such a high RRP is a strange way of going about it.

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BJL
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« Reply #1476 on: June 21, 2013, 09:23:40 AM »

. . . MIC was compiled with one single target audience in mind: the hardcore fans. Casual fans do not care about rarities and unreleased material, you don't need a song that was cut from an album if you don't even have that album. And nobody spends $100+ on a few CDs by a band that they just casually like. "John Q. Public" will be perfectly content with '50 Big Ones' and a copy of 'Pet Sounds', and if he's feeling really adventurous he might get 'The Smile Sessions' or a random 2fer on top of that, but that will be more than enough.

Capitol knows very well that 95% of everyone who will buy MIC are people who already have everything but still want more. They also know that The Beach Boys have such a big and messy discography that the serious completists have already spend hundreds or even thousands on their collections. . . . .

A lot of people on this board are completely clueless about what Beach Boys fandom actually looks like. Very, very few people are completists. Very, very few people read the Smiley Smile Message Board. You, with 12 different Smile bootlegs and a hard drive full of Sea of Tunes Sessions, are simply not the market for this box, nor are you representative of the set of people who will tell you that the Beach Boys are one of their favorite bands. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be stoked about all the rarities we are getting (I certainly am!). Nor does it mean that you can’t be disappointed or bummed. Bum away! But people who have been building their collections for years seem to have forgotten how incredibly large and massively intimidating the Beach Boys catalogue is, or how powerful strains of thought urged fans for years to write-off certain areas of it.

Some examples of the types of Beach Boys Fans this box is targeting:

1.   The Brianista: These fans haven’t really explored past Smile. Some of these fans can probably still be found lurking on the Blue board Smiley The Brianista definitely owns Pet Sounds, Smile and 2004 Smile, one or two, if not all, of Brian’s solo albums, a couple of greatest hits collections, the Today and Summer Days two-fer, and a variety of other early albums. For these fans, discs 3-6 of the new Box set are going to be full of revelations.

2.   The hipster fan: These young fans got into the Beach Boys via the Fleet Foxes or Animal Collective. They read pitchfork, and own Pet Sounds and Smile. They probably jumped straight from Pet Sounds to Sunflower, Surf’s Up, and Holland. This fan almost certainly owns the new Pacific Ocean Blue reissue, but most of the box will be new – especially disc 1!

3.   The Boomer: This baby boomer went to the 50th reunion tour, and has kept good care of the Beach Boys vinyl from their childhood. They own most of the earlier albums, at least seven greatest hits collections, and Pet Sounds. They may or may not own the Good Vibrations Box Set, but if they do, they probably haven’t listened to discs three and four since 1995. This box will be an eye opener, assuming they ever make it past disc 3! The live tracks will be a particular treat for a fan whose only live albums are the 64’ concert album and maybe the 50th anniversary tour album. 

4.   The new fan: self-explanatory. All they own is a Greatest hits and Pet Sounds, but Pet Sounds is growing increasingly captivating by the day. Where to go next? Made in California, duh! Yea it’s pricey, but not compared to the cost of assembling a full set of albums. Note also that the average greatest hits collection only has a bit over half of the Beach Boys 36 top-40 hits.

5.   The straight and narrow fan: This fan owns just about everything the Beach Boys have ever released, but has never listened to a bootleg. They may or may not be opposed to bootlegs, and they may not be super familiar with the internet. The box will be full of treats for these fans.

6.   The Still Building the Collection Fan: The Beach Boys have released a lot of albums. Even with two per disc, it’s easy to miss a few. I considered myself a huge Beach Boys fan for years before I bought Friends and 20/20, Carl and the Passions, Holland, 15 Big Ones, or Love You, let alone the 80s stuff. There’s just so much material to get through! Such a fan might own 15 different Beach Boys albums, and yet still be missing Surfer Girl and Shut Down vol. 2. Things happen. These fans will get a taste of what they’re missing.

7.   The obsessive but non-completist: I fall squarely into this category. I love the Beach Boys. I have tons of bootlegs. I read the Smiley Smile board and watch Stephen Desper’s amazing study videos. I own every released Beach Boys album on both CD and vinyl. I own the Smile Box, and all of Brian’s solo albums, and saw the 50th anniversary tour 4 times. But I’m just not a completist. Which means that I didn’t feel the compulsion to replace my two-fers with new stereo issues, or to buy Summer Love Songs for one rarity and some remixes. I certainly didn’t buy that ridiculous singles box with four songs on each of 28 CDs or whatever. For me, this box is full of stereo mixes that are entirely new to my collection!

Feel free to be disappointed, but I wouldn’t be so quick to attack Capital’s business plan, or to see this box as an attempt to fleece the Beach Boy’s hardcore fans. I think there is a very good market for this kind of set.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #1477 on: June 21, 2013, 09:53:09 AM »

Splendid.
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shelter
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« Reply #1478 on: June 21, 2013, 10:18:37 AM »

.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 10:21:03 AM by shelter » Logged
Jim V.
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« Reply #1479 on: June 21, 2013, 10:19:46 AM »

Funny that Andrew still hasn't admitted his "John Q Public" post made no sense whatsoever. Saying that the average person wouldn't know "Surf's Up 1967" even though The SMiLE Sessions was a top 30 hit, but that they would know "Ol' Man River (Vocal Section)". Sounds like he was a little confused when he made that list. Either that or his list was total bullshit and he should make a coherent list.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 03:15:20 PM by sweetdudejim » Logged
Nicko1234
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« Reply #1480 on: June 21, 2013, 10:20:18 AM »


Some examples of the types of Beach Boys Fans this box is targeting:

1.   The Brianista: These fans haven’t really explored past Smile. Some of these fans can probably still be found lurking on the Blue board Smiley The Brianista definitely owns Pet Sounds, Smile and 2004 Smile, one or two, if not all, of Brian’s solo albums, a couple of greatest hits collections, the Today and Summer Days two-fer, and a variety of other early albums. For these fans, discs 3-6 of the new Box set are going to be full of revelations.

The twofers are available for just over £5 each. They could buy a few of those to get more songs (including some quality songs left off this set) and they could save themselves a fortune.


2.   The hipster fan: These young fans got into the Beach Boys via the Fleet Foxes or Animal Collective. They read pitchfork, and own Pet Sounds and Smile. They probably jumped straight from Pet Sounds to Sunflower, Surf’s Up, and Holland. This fan almost certainly owns the new Pacific Ocean Blue reissue, but most of the box will be new – especially disc 1!

If they want stuff from disc 1 then get Sounds of Summer or Endless Summer. They could get some of the twofers as well and save themselves a fortune.

3.   The Boomer: This baby boomer went to the 50th reunion tour, and has kept good care of the Beach Boys vinyl from their childhood. They own most of the earlier albums, at least seven greatest hits collections, and Pet Sounds. They may or may not own the Good Vibrations Box Set, but if they do, they probably haven’t listened to discs three and four since 1995. This box will be an eye opener, assuming they ever make it past disc 3! The live tracks will be a particular treat for a fan whose only live albums are the 64’ concert album and maybe the 50th anniversary tour album.

They never listened to discs 3 and 4 and yet they are going to go out and buy the same stuff on CD for $100? More money than sense if that's the case.  

4.   The new fan: self-explanatory. All they own is a Greatest hits and Pet Sounds, but Pet Sounds is growing increasingly captivating by the day. Where to go next? Made in California, duh! Yea it’s pricey, but not compared to the cost of assembling a full set of albums. Note also that the average greatest hits collection only has a bit over half of the Beach Boys 36 top-40 hits.

Not true. A fan could get every studio album from Surfin Safari through to Love You and still save themselves money.

5.   The straight and narrow fan: This fan owns just about everything the Beach Boys have ever released, but has never listened to a bootleg. They may or may not be opposed to bootlegs, and they may not be super familiar with the internet. The box will be full of treats for these fans.

They may well want this for the 2 CDs worth of stuff as many have already said.

6.   The Still Building the Collection Fan: The Beach Boys have released a lot of albums. Even with two per disc, it’s easy to miss a few. I considered myself a huge Beach Boys fan for years before I bought Friends and 20/20, Carl and the Passions, Holland, 15 Big Ones, or Love You, let alone the 80s stuff. There’s just so much material to get through! Such a fan might own 15 different Beach Boys albums, and yet still be missing Surfer Girl and Shut Down vol. 2. Things happen. These fans will get a taste of what they’re missing.

They would be wasting a fortune.


7.   The obsessive but non-completist: I fall squarely into this category. I love the Beach Boys. I have tons of bootlegs. I read the Smiley Smile board and watch Stephen Desper’s amazing study videos. I own every released Beach Boys album on both CD and vinyl. I own the Smile Box, and all of Brian’s solo albums, and saw the 50th anniversary tour 4 times. But I’m just not a completist. Which means that I didn’t feel the compulsion to replace my two-fers with new stereo issues, or to buy Summer Love Songs for one rarity and some remixes. I certainly didn’t buy that ridiculous singles box with four songs on each of 28 CDs or whatever. For me, this box is full of stereo mixes that are entirely new to my collection!

I completely agree that they may well buy the set in spite of the price.

Now this set may well sell a huge number of copies but it doesn't make much sense for many of those people to buy the set unless the price comes down considerably. Especially as the GV box set is still available for a much lower price on the same format.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 10:21:42 AM by Nicko1234 » Logged
shelter
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« Reply #1481 on: June 21, 2013, 10:39:27 AM »

@BJL

1. The Brianista: Has several MUCH cheaper options if he only wants to explore the post-Smile stuff.
2. The hipster fan: Has several MUCH cheaper options if he only wants to explore the pre-Pet Sounds stuff.
3. The boomer: already has the hits.
4. The new fan: already has the hits.
5. The straight and narrow fan: already has the hits.
6. The Still Building the Collection Fan: will get the missing albums first.
7. The obsessive but non-completist: already has the hits.

So my point still stands: nobody who will buy MIC has any need for the hits being on it.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 10:41:25 AM by shelter » Logged
Paulos
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« Reply #1482 on: June 21, 2013, 11:05:13 AM »

@BJL

1. The Brianista: Has several MUCH cheaper options if he only wants to explore the post-Smile stuff.
2. The hipster fan: Has several MUCH cheaper options if he only wants to explore the pre-Pet Sounds stuff.
3. The boomer: already has the hits.
4. The new fan: already has the hits.
5. The straight and narrow fan: already has the hits.
6. The Still Building the Collection Fan: will get the missing albums first.
7. The obsessive but non-completist: already has the hits.

So my point still stands: nobody who will buy MIC has any need for the hits being on it.

Ridiculous statement, unless you are God and know the hearts and minds of the 7 billion plus people on this planet.
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BJL
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« Reply #1483 on: June 21, 2013, 12:01:12 PM »

@BJL

1. The Brianista: Has several MUCH cheaper options if he only wants to explore the post-Smile stuff.
2. The hipster fan: Has several MUCH cheaper options if he only wants to explore the pre-Pet Sounds stuff.
3. The boomer: already has the hits.
4. The new fan: already has the hits.
5. The straight and narrow fan: already has the hits.
6. The Still Building the Collection Fan: will get the missing albums first.
7. The obsessive but non-completist: already has the hits.

So my point still stands: nobody who will buy MIC has any need for the hits being on it.

Oh, I agree. There’s no one in the world who is going to buy this box set who doesn’t already own a greatest hits collection, and there’s no reason for the hits to be repeated on this box. But the hits are 20 odd songs. My point was just that, for the average Beach Boys fan, this box offers them two discs worth of rarities and live tracks PLUS something else that they don’t have, and because of this, I think that the set will do well commercially, especially if the price comes down a hair or two. In my case, this is a bunch of stereo mixes which I will be very happy to have!

Also, I have no idea if AGD was mocking me or agreeing with me. Frankly, I wouldn’t be too surprised by either. But there’s a reason I usually lurk – this board has a mean streak a mile wide. Fortunately, it also has the best in depth discussion on the Beach Boys the internet can provide Smiley
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #1484 on: June 21, 2013, 12:19:17 PM »

Not mocking - an outstanding post which in any sane community would put an immediate end to any further argument. However...  Grin
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« Reply #1485 on: June 21, 2013, 12:29:17 PM »

Not mocking - an outstanding post which in any sane community would put an immediate end to any further argument. However...  Grin

I believe that all my posts here have been respectful, polite and with substantiaded opinions. If you don't see me as "sane" just because we happen to disagree, than that says a whole lot more about you than me.
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« Reply #1486 on: June 21, 2013, 12:32:57 PM »

Not pointing my observation at anyone in particular. Don't need to - they just stand up and wave.  Grin
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« Reply #1487 on: June 21, 2013, 01:00:38 PM »

I post a LOT of "substantiated opinions" and common sense on this board. They either go ignored or someone will invariably argue the point with their own opinion (even though the facts/proof slap them in the face). "Substantiated opionions" don't mean sh*t on this board.
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« Reply #1488 on: June 21, 2013, 01:18:30 PM »

If, upon its release, MIC sells really well, I very much hope we'll hear ''Oh it seems I was wrong'' from all these Smiley Smiler's who are going on endlessly about how the box doesn't successfully appeal to this set of punters or that set of punters or... anyone at all in fact. Because presumably if it's a sales success then it'll prove that the compilers and Capitol did in fact get it right. 
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« Reply #1489 on: June 21, 2013, 01:22:35 PM »

Not mocking - an outstanding post which in any sane community would put an immediate end to any further argument. However...  Grin

Yes. BJL hit the nail on the head repeatedly and drove it solidly into the board, attaching it firmly to another board beneath.

By the reasoning of folks here, there would never be any reason to buy a boxed set of any band unless it was 100 percent rarities. The success of the format over the past 25 years or so begs to differ.
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« Reply #1490 on: June 21, 2013, 01:26:44 PM »

If, upon its release, MIC sells really well 


What amount of sales qualifies?
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« Reply #1491 on: June 21, 2013, 01:29:15 PM »

For that matter, the Good Vibes box was transformative in how I looked at the band. I only had a hits collection and some BW albums. The attractive packaging and curated contents were appealing to someone who didn't know where to start, and didn't want to buy a bunch of obscure records.

I think that reasoning applies to a bunch of folks these days, too. Yes, I agree with everyone that the price should be lower. But I doubt we've heard the last word on that subject.
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Jason
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« Reply #1492 on: June 21, 2013, 01:29:53 PM »

In the U.S. it would need to sell about 166,667 units to go platinum.
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« Reply #1493 on: June 21, 2013, 01:49:14 PM »

By the reasoning of folks here, there would never be any reason to buy a boxed set of any band unless it was 100 percent rarities. The success of the format over the past 25 years or so begs to differ.

Given the radical changes in the music market and format over the last decade, I'm not sure how much bearing the last 25 years will have on a box set released in 2013.  My best is most of the sales for MiC will be a la carte track purchases from iTunes and Amazon.
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Disney Boy (1985)
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« Reply #1494 on: June 21, 2013, 01:54:49 PM »

If, upon its release, MIC sells really well 


What amount of sales qualifies?

I don't know. However I know the POB reissue sold well - or well enough to be considered a success. Likewise the Smile Sessions. If I hear similar regarding MIC then I'll assume it sold well.
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #1495 on: June 21, 2013, 02:02:09 PM »


I think that reasoning applies to a bunch of folks these days, too. Yes, I agree with everyone that the price should be lower. But I doubt we've heard the last word on that subject.

The price is the crucial thing isn't it. If the price goes down to something similar to other box sets like £40 or something like that then there is no reason why it couldn't sell very well.
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« Reply #1496 on: June 21, 2013, 02:31:26 PM »

BJL's view of the market was one of the sweetest things I've read in this thread for a while.

I no longer give a hoot who buys the set though - I will and that's all that matters to me cos I know I'll bleedin' well enjoy it!

I keep getting an image of baboons sat in a clearing picking nits out of each others' hair…

Let's have some music…
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 02:42:24 PM by John Manning » Logged

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« Reply #1497 on: June 21, 2013, 02:35:22 PM »


I think that reasoning applies to a bunch of folks these days, too. Yes, I agree with everyone that the price should be lower. But I doubt we've heard the last word on that subject.

The price is the crucial thing isn't it. If the price goes down to something similar to other box sets like £40 or something like that then there is no reason why it couldn't sell very well.

Nah, I don't think so. Folks who really like the BBs are going to buy this box; those that simply want to whine about the price, won't.
Who cares about them? 
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« Reply #1498 on: June 21, 2013, 02:40:05 PM »


7.   The obsessive but non-completist: I fall squarely into this category. I love the Beach Boys. I have tons of bootlegs. I read the Smiley Smile board and watch Stephen Desper’s amazing study videos. I own every released Beach Boys album on both CD and vinyl. I own the Smile Box, and all of Brian’s solo albums, and saw the 50th anniversary tour 4 times. But I’m just not a completist. Which means that I didn’t feel the compulsion to replace my two-fers with new stereo issues, or to buy Summer Love Songs for one rarity and some remixes. I certainly didn’t buy that ridiculous singles box with four songs on each of 28 CDs or whatever. For me, this box is full of stereo mixes that are entirely new to my collection!


Hey, this is me too, to a tee.
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #1499 on: June 21, 2013, 02:41:59 PM »


Nah, I don't think so. Folks who really like the BBs are going to buy this box; those that simply want to whine about the price, won't.
Who cares about them? 

That rules out John Q. Public then it seems.
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