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Author Topic: Brian Wilson's 11th solo album announced today  (Read 60756 times)
Gertie J.
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« Reply #400 on: June 12, 2013, 04:24:23 PM »

50/50
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« Reply #401 on: June 12, 2013, 06:53:02 PM »

Not looking so forward to this. It will be as auto-tuned heavy as TWGMTR and I find it terribly unlistenable. Sterile & robotic.
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« Reply #402 on: June 12, 2013, 09:41:18 PM »

"I still remember
Him soundin' sweet and tender
Singin' "Danny Boy" on grandma's lap..."
Grin
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« Reply #403 on: June 12, 2013, 11:47:01 PM »

I was just pondering something. Why do you guys think that Brianís band often go for such a í60s sounding bass tone (and do it very tastefully) but not at all on the drums? Itís so weird (not in a good way) to hear that í60s bass with '80s sounding, perfectly-tuned, close-miced, stereo toms. Even Joe Thomas will occasionally do the '60s bass. But the drums are always in another decade, one that was terrible for the engineering of drums.
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« Reply #404 on: June 13, 2013, 12:03:16 AM »

or In The Night Garden (aka, "Yes My Name Is Iggle Piggle").

Yes, sitting through one episode does feel like 70 years have passed!
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« Reply #405 on: June 13, 2013, 03:55:23 PM »

Well, that just confirms what we all knew but were afraid to admit to ourselves. Heck, Brian has said several times that heís just doing what they tell him and he has no say in recording or selecting tracks because he is helpless and brain damaged. Maybe heís telling the truth. Maybe the people around him do all the work and he is rolled in on a stretcher, sings a couple of lines, and then goes back to the couch to lie down. Maybe Darian sequenced Smile and Brian just went along with it. Maybe he just flopped into a comfy chair and zoned out while the band rehearsed, checking himself into a hospital in order to flee from the torture of recording and performing. Maybe he is like a reverse MICHIGAN J. FROG, singing and coming to life when the light in on him but then slumping over and only croaking once the curtain comes down. Maybe thatís why the Christmas album sounds like ďChristmas with the WondermintsĒ. Maybe part of the deal when working ďwithĒ Brian is to give him 50% credit and production credit and then accept a monetary settlement. The illusion of genius must remain in order to move product. Heís tried to tell us this in interviews when his guard was down, but we blame it on his depression. But maybe heís telling it like it is. Thatís why he needs somebody like Landy or Melinda calling the shots: because he canít call the shots. He canít do anything. Heís a mountain of flesh and bone with nothing left inside to offer. He exists and that is all heís interested in doing. Andy Paley wrote and produced the Paley tracks. Joe Thomas produced Imagination. The Wondermints and Jeff recorded and produced Smile without any help from Brian. Itís all a carefully orchestrated hoax, like making us believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny of the Sasquatch. When David Leafís camera rolled, they prop Brian up in the producers chair and have him look busy. Once the recording light it off, he goes back to the couch. And heís been doing it this way for 40 years. They send someone to Brian, he spits out a riff or song fragment and then they take the specimen back to the lab (studio) and create something out of it. Brianís not back. He never was back and heíll never be back and that is what we have to accept. The snarling maniac who scared the hell out of millions of overweight housewives on ďThe ViewĒ back in December is the real dealÖ

No, wait. Iím wrong. I take that all back. I just like to see both sides of the coin, thatís all.  He's back and he's doing great.


Found the awesome above quote on the IMAGINATION DVD thread...thanx Bubba- well said!

I often wonder about this. Does anyone else have any ideas or insights about Brian's abilities? Does Brian still write all the harmonies, does he still crack the whip around? Does he approve of the auto tune disasters? He must have the final say, right? I know he can play piano....that is why I would sometimes just rather hear him play piano than all that robo-Brian stuff we get sometimes. Does anyone remember the TLOS DVD? One of the band members plucks the piano strings like in the beginning of YSBIM, and he askes Brian's approval, and Brian says "no"... is that the state of Brian's production input nowadays?

Also, Brian's music isn't famous for blistering guitar solos- is Jeff Beck going to bring that to the music?
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« Reply #406 on: June 14, 2013, 05:23:42 AM »

Well, that just confirms what we all knew but were afraid to admit to ourselves. Heck, Brian has said several times that heís just doing what they tell him and he has no say in recording or selecting tracks because he is helpless and brain damaged. Maybe heís telling the truth. Maybe the people around him do all the work and he is rolled in on a stretcher, sings a couple of lines, and then goes back to the couch to lie down. Maybe Darian sequenced Smile and Brian just went along with it. Maybe he just flopped into a comfy chair and zoned out while the band rehearsed, checking himself into a hospital in order to flee from the torture of recording and performing. Maybe he is like a reverse MICHIGAN J. FROG, singing and coming to life when the light in on him but then slumping over and only croaking once the curtain comes down. Maybe thatís why the Christmas album sounds like ďChristmas with the WondermintsĒ. Maybe part of the deal when working ďwithĒ Brian is to give him 50% credit and production credit and then accept a monetary settlement. The illusion of genius must remain in order to move product. Heís tried to tell us this in interviews when his guard was down, but we blame it on his depression. But maybe heís telling it like it is. Thatís why he needs somebody like Landy or Melinda calling the shots: because he canít call the shots. He canít do anything. Heís a mountain of flesh and bone with nothing left inside to offer. He exists and that is all heís interested in doing. Andy Paley wrote and produced the Paley tracks. Joe Thomas produced Imagination. The Wondermints and Jeff recorded and produced Smile without any help from Brian. Itís all a carefully orchestrated hoax, like making us believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny of the Sasquatch. When David Leafís camera rolled, they prop Brian up in the producers chair and have him look busy. Once the recording light it off, he goes back to the couch. And heís been doing it this way for 40 years. They send someone to Brian, he spits out a riff or song fragment and then they take the specimen back to the lab (studio) and create something out of it. Brianís not back. He never was back and heíll never be back and that is what we have to accept. The snarling maniac who scared the hell out of millions of overweight housewives on ďThe ViewĒ back in December is the real dealÖ

No, wait. Iím wrong. I take that all back. I just like to see both sides of the coin, thatís all.  He's back and he's doing great.

Found the awesome above quote on the IMAGINATION DVD thread...thanx Bubba- well said!

I often wonder about this. Does anyone else have any ideas or insights about Brian's abilities? Does Brian still write all the harmonies, does he still crack the whip around? Does he approve of the auto tune disasters? He must have the final say, right? I know he can play piano....that is why I would sometimes just rather hear him play piano than all that robo-Brian stuff we get sometimes. Does anyone remember the TLOS DVD? One of the band members plucks the piano strings like in the beginning of YSBIM, and he askes Brian's approval, and Brian says "no"... is that the state of Brian's production input nowadays?

Also, Brian's music isn't famous for blistering guitar solos- is Jeff Beck going to bring that to the music?

Mahalo - I'm not sure a 2006 post characterizes Brian in 2013, which is largely speculation anyway. (Sorry.)  Unless one is working in that sphere, one does not know what goes on. I don't have the TLOS DVD but saw the live show. 

Just having seen him several C50 sound checks, Brian was hardly what you'd call "passive" and was tweaking work in that context.  Even with his sore back, he was in some "directorial" capacity. 
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theCOD
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« Reply #407 on: June 14, 2013, 10:32:32 PM »

I'd be more excited if Joe Thomas wasn't involved. The man has no balls. It's embarrassing. Go back to producing Toby Keith and leave Brian alone, douchebag.

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Generation42
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« Reply #408 on: June 15, 2013, 08:34:07 AM »

I was just pondering something. Why do you guys think that Brianís band often go for such a í60s sounding bass tone (and do it very tastefully) but not at all on the drums? Itís so weird (not in a good way) to hear that í60s bass with '80s sounding, perfectly-tuned, close-miced, stereo toms. Even Joe Thomas will occasionally do the '60s bass. But the drums are always in another decade, one that was terrible for the engineering of drums.
Yes!  Drums recorded like this can be put to good use, but I agree that this is the one thing, instrumentally, which stands out (and in a manner which, personally, I find can sometimes approach 'unpleasant').  I think you're right that the reason being is that the sound is incongruous with the rest of the production.  Depending on the number, the drums can sound quite out-of-place.

I think another thing which tends to stand out to long time Beach Boys listeners is the use of the drum kit being played in a much more traditional manner than 'classically Brian' productions often did, but I don't think that decision falls so much on Thomas, as Brian, himself.  I could be wrong, though.
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c-man
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« Reply #409 on: June 15, 2013, 09:08:36 AM »

I was just pondering something. Why do you guys think that Brianís band often go for such a í60s sounding bass tone (and do it very tastefully) but not at all on the drums? Itís so weird (not in a good way) to hear that í60s bass with '80s sounding, perfectly-tuned, close-miced, stereo toms. Even Joe Thomas will occasionally do the '60s bass. But the drums are always in another decade, one that was terrible for the engineering of drums.

What do you mean by "60s bass"?  Do you mean with the classic "tic-tac" tape-delay sound, as heard on "Your Imagination", "From There To Back Again" and other recent cuts?  There have also been times where the bass on Brian's farily recent productions has sounded very "modern" as well (like on "City Blues").  
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« Reply #410 on: June 15, 2013, 09:09:58 AM »

Also, Brian's music isn't famous for blistering guitar solos- is Jeff Beck going to bring that to the music?

My guess is that Beck plays a blistering solo on one song, like Clapton did on "City Blues". 
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Paulos
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« Reply #411 on: June 15, 2013, 09:20:33 AM »

Also, Brian's music isn't famous for blistering guitar solos- is Jeff Beck going to bring that to the music?

My guess is that Beck plays a blistering solo on one song, like Clapton did on "City Blues". 

A blistering solo would be good but a face-melter would be even better.

I think Brian's management should have delayed the announcement of a new album by a few weeks as it's already getting forgotten in the MiC frenzy.
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« Reply #412 on: June 15, 2013, 09:38:03 AM »

If the album is really good, it will gather a ton of attention quickly.  Just don't release the album within a couple of months of MIC.

I also wonder how much BW is involved in creating music, as opposed to his name being used, but the work is done by others.  I guess maybe his involvement in running soundchecks during the C50 tour would give one clue.
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« Reply #413 on: June 15, 2013, 09:48:17 AM »

If the album is really good, it will gather a ton of attention quickly.  Just don't release the album within a couple of months of MIC.

I also wonder how much BW is involved in creating music, as opposed to his name being used, but the work is done by others.  I guess maybe his involvement in running soundchecks during the C50 tour would give one clue.

Just as the next guy, sometimes I wonder if Brian is just there to put his name on his albums, sing his lines, throw an idea when he feels like it, and let others do the work.

At times, that scenario seems plausible, if not for the fact that the music that bears Brian's name is usually superior to what his collaborators release on their own.
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« Reply #414 on: June 15, 2013, 10:49:40 AM »

If the album is really good, it will gather a ton of attention quickly.  Just don't release the album within a couple of months of MIC.

I also wonder how much BW is involved in creating music, as opposed to his name being used, but the work is done by others.  I guess maybe his involvement in running soundchecks during the C50 tour would give one clue.

Just as the next guy, sometimes I wonder if Brian is just there to put his name on his albums, sing his lines, throw an idea when he feels like it, and let others do the work.

At times, that scenario seems plausible, if not for the fact that the music that bears Brian's name is usually superior to what his collaborators release on their own.

Exactly...as others have pointed out, the kind of chord structures used on Brian's colloborations with Paley and Thomas are far beyond the scope of what those two have done on their non-Brian music.  And Brian absolutely does his own vocal arrangements - no doubt about that.  But, as Thomas said in an interview last year, Brian does "delegate" a lot of studio production work to others, and why shouldn't he at this point.
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« Reply #415 on: June 15, 2013, 12:58:32 PM »

Brian Wilson has always been a collaborative artist. From the very early days, allowing Dennis to set the direction of the band and Mike to write lyrics (and contribute bass vocal ideas) to the Pet Sounds era (soliciting arrangement advice from the session pros, allowing Chuck Britz and Carl to essentially co-produce a lot of sessions). Nothing in his current methods is particularly different from the way he's worked his entire career. He looks to his friends and fellow musicians for inspiration and ideas -- and always with his quintessential vocal arrangements on top. Sometimes, because of his illness and age, he perhaps leans on these folks harder than he would in his younger years. But that's largely a difference of extent, not of approach or creative ideals.

Sometimes, you have collaborators with a stronger musical approach than others (Usher, Carl, Paley and Thomas), and at other times they're mainly lyricists (Love, Asher, Kalinich, Bennett). But regardless of how the music and songs come together, Brian is almost precisely the opposite of the auteur he's often portrayed as. One of his prime talents is simply in collaborating with other people -- some obviously talented (Parks and Paley), others less so (ad man Asher, ex-wrestler Thomas) -- and encouraging ideas to flow.
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« Reply #416 on: June 15, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »

I think people on this board sometimes forget that Brian does suffer from a mental illness.  Stop arguing about how you think he personally feels.  Only he knows that and trying to figure it out from face expressions or body language is ridiculous.  Unless you're somehow living inside of the man's brain, I don't think any of us have the right to comment on the guy's emotional state unless he outright said it himself.
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monicker
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« Reply #417 on: June 15, 2013, 05:30:27 PM »

I think another thing which tends to stand out to long time Beach Boys listeners is the use of the drum kit being played in a much more traditional manner than 'classically Brian' productions often did, but I don't think that decision falls so much on Thomas, as Brian, himself.  I could be wrong, though.

Yeah, this is one detail that immediately distinguishes his solo work from his '60s-'70s Beach Boys material. But that is not so much a sonic characteristic as it is a musical/playing style and approach. The drum kit can be played more traditionally (as it is on his solo records) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the drums themselves have to be locked into a specific sound. And what i've been wondering is why he, or whoever else may be responsible, often (certainly not always) chooses to use a bass sound that is very reminiscent of "classic Brian," yet when it comes to the drums, as far as i can recall, they have never been given the same sonic treatment, i.e. mimicking a classic sound. Is there any solo Brian song where the drums (not the percussion) sound more like the drums on '60s Beach Boys records than, say, a Toby Keith record?  LOL  For instance, has a solo Brian song ever been recorded with just two or three (not close) mics on the drums? Have the drums on a Brian record ever been muffled or dampened? Have the cymbals ever not been directly miced? I'm just asking these questions out loud at no one in particular.  

What do you mean by "60s bass"?  Do you mean with the classic "tic-tac" tape-delay sound, as heard on "Your Imagination", "From There To Back Again" and other recent cuts?  There have also been times where the bass on Brian's farily recent productions has sounded very "modern" as well (like on "City Blues").  

Yeah, i could have explained that better. Tic-tac bass is what i meant. I guess that's technically a late '50s thing, no? But yeah, you know, treble turned up more than usual, played with a pick and closer to the bridge, often palm muted, good amount of reverb, more likely to be amped and miced than going DI. All of that = "60s bass"  Cheesy  Which, yes, is only an occasional thing on Brian solo productions, because he definitely also uses more modern bass sounds.

EDIT: In fact, the song TWGMTR is an example of a modern, very dry, "smooth," fingered bass sound throughout which then momentarily switches in the bridge to a tic-tac like bass sound.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 05:40:53 PM by monicker » Logged

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« Reply #418 on: June 15, 2013, 05:40:36 PM »

Not looking so forward to this. It will be as auto-tuned heavy as TWGMTR and I find it terribly unlistenable. Sterile & robotic.
OK, but I'll say you'll buy it and play it-and play it alot then come on here and complain about it. LOL
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« Reply #419 on: June 16, 2013, 12:42:13 AM »

I think people on this board sometimes forget that Brian does suffer from a mental illness.  Stop arguing about how you think he personally feels.  Only he knows that and trying to figure it out from face expressions or body language is ridiculous.  Unless you're somehow living inside of the man's brain, I don't think any of us have the right to comment on the guy's emotional state unless he outright said it himself.

Well said.
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« Reply #420 on: June 16, 2013, 12:50:58 AM »

Is there any solo Brian song where the drums (not the percussion) sound more like the drums on '60s Beach Boys records than, say, a Toby Keith record?  LOL  For instance, has a solo Brian song ever been recorded with just two or three (not close) mics on the drums? Have the drums on a Brian record ever been muffled or dampened? Have the cymbals ever not been directly miced? I'm just asking these questions out loud at no one in particular.  

But how much of that is just because those things were how you dealt with technical limitations in the 60s?
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« Reply #421 on: June 16, 2013, 07:35:05 AM »

Is there any solo Brian song where the drums (not the percussion) sound more like the drums on '60s Beach Boys records than, say, a Toby Keith record?  LOL  For instance, has a solo Brian song ever been recorded with just two or three (not close) mics on the drums? Have the drums on a Brian record ever been muffled or dampened? Have the cymbals ever not been directly miced? I'm just asking these questions out loud at no one in particular.  

But how much of that is just because those things were how you dealt with technical limitations in the 60s?

IIRC, the Wilson/Paley stuff from the early-mid '90s had a more "traditional" BW drum sound. 
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monicker
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« Reply #422 on: June 16, 2013, 11:33:39 AM »

Is there any solo Brian song where the drums (not the percussion) sound more like the drums on '60s Beach Boys records than, say, a Toby Keith record?  LOL  For instance, has a solo Brian song ever been recorded with just two or three (not close) mics on the drums? Have the drums on a Brian record ever been muffled or dampened? Have the cymbals ever not been directly miced? I'm just asking these questions out loud at no one in particular.  

But how much of that is just because those things were how you dealt with technical limitations in the 60s?

That's a good point and i've been thinking about this more and i had another thought: I don't know if tic-bass ever truly fell all the way out of fashion over the decades (because it's more of a style that comes and goes, rather than a limitation), whereas the way drums were once recorded in the '60s pretty much disappeared with the advent of new technologies once 16, 32, 48 + more multitracking came to be, and drums started being miced (up closer) with several microphones and given as many corresponding tracks in the mix. It seems that tic-tac bass, over the ensuing decades, has been handled as an occasional stylistic option if a producer feels the song calls for that sort of sound, whereas drums (we're talking commercial recordings here) are recorded the standard way that has been established since the '70s and that's just that. So, maybe it just comes down to there being less stylistic options for treating drums? At least as far as commercial recordings go--productions that aren't really pushing any envelopes of industry standards or intentionally reverting to "outdated" ways as a stylistic choice. On this note, Paley seems to have wanted to dial back into a certain "classic" Brian sort of sound, and one can argue that the Paley sessions were the most risk-taking/least commercial of Brian's solo stuff, excluding home demos, no?  
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« Reply #423 on: June 16, 2013, 04:59:20 PM »

I think another thing which tends to stand out to long time Beach Boys listeners is the use of the drum kit being played in a much more traditional manner than 'classically Brian' productions often did, but I don't think that decision falls so much on Thomas, as Brian, himself.  I could be wrong, though.

Yeah, this is one detail that immediately distinguishes his solo work from his '60s-'70s Beach Boys material. But that is not so much a sonic characteristic as it is a musical/playing style and approach. The drum kit can be played more traditionally (as it is on his solo records) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the drums themselves have to be locked into a specific sound. And what i've been wondering is why he, or whoever else may be responsible, often (certainly not always) chooses to use a bass sound that is very reminiscent of "classic Brian," yet when it comes to the drums, as far as i can recall, they have never been given the same sonic treatment, i.e. mimicking a classic sound. Is there any solo Brian song where the drums (not the percussion) sound more like the drums on '60s Beach Boys records than, say, a Toby Keith record?  LOL  For instance, has a solo Brian song ever been recorded with just two or three (not close) mics on the drums? Have the drums on a Brian record ever been muffled or dampened? Have the cymbals ever not been directly miced? I'm just asking these questions out loud at no one in particular.
No, I get what you're saying.  I was just piggy-backing on that, and opining that, in addition to the way the drums are recorded, they are also different due to the manner in which the kit is utilized.  Between these two factors, the result is a listening experience one might otherwise not expect of a traditional Brian Wilson production.
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« Reply #424 on: June 16, 2013, 05:59:55 PM »

I'd love better sounding drums on BW's recordings. "Better" is subjective, but the modern setup leaves the drums sounding flat and lifeless. I hate the way, in many modern recordings, that snare drums sound. If you're a drummer, and you've played a nice kit, you know how cool it sounds - how there is life there, a fullness. In modern recordings, for the most part, you're left with the top of the drums but not the whole body.

Another pet peeve is the way the kick drums sound on these records. It should NEVER be competing with the bass! It should NEVER sound like a dull, pounding thump that overpowers everything else! There are plenty of records in which you can hear the kickdrum, but you aren't overwhelmed, you can actually feel the drummer's foot kicking the mallet and feeling the boom. That kind of playing is all over the Beach Boys' records - you can tell what Dennis was doing and respect his playing. Listen to the kickdrum on Summer's Gone - that incessant thump shouldn't be so overbearing.
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