Brian Wilson's 11th solo album announced today

[ThyRavenAscend]

J.Thomas has done nothing but prove he is incapable of handling the task fo being a producer imo.

^this.  Can't Brian or Al or someone realize that Joe Thomas's production style has the aesthetic appeal of a turd?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I don't understand how a fan can dismiss TWGMTR (the whole thing) as "unlistenable."

Maybe I'm not a proper fan then. Or maybe I'm just a different sort of fan.

I'm the sort of fan who does understand how people hate Love You, and Smiley Smile, even though they're my favourite BB albums.

I'm the sort of fan who does understand that for others, the autotune and MOR production is less of an issue.

But you're the sort of fan I don't understand. The one for whom empathy seems to be a real problem.

(Oh, and to Cyncie, sorry. )

 

[Micha]

Just calm down everybody. I'm sure the harsh feelings come just from some sort of misunderstanding. I don't think anybody really attacked or condescended someone else in this thread.

[jeffcdo]

But you're the sort of fan I don't understand. The one for whom empathy seems to be a real problem.

Where did that come from?  All I said was that I find it hard to understand how a fan of the Beach Boys can dismiss their latest album in its entirety - one that is very highly regarded by many people.  This is indicative of some sort of character flaw on my part?  It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Jonathan Blum]

But I don't think anyone was saying the stuff you mention. That's why I disregarded it.

No one's accused Brian of coasting. You imagined that's what people were saying because it suited the point you wanted to make.

Classic strawman.

No, instead people were saying that the existence of other credited people involved in the project was cheapening Brian's legacy, because obviously their presence means that Brian wasn't really putting his back into producing.

Which is close enough to his point.

Regards,
JOn Blum

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Alright folks...let's play nicely. I can see both sides...I personally LOVED TWGMTR, but the live cd can go chase itself for all I care. I for one am happy enough with the fact Brian is still making music!

[Rocky Raccoon]

From what I can tell with Joe Thomas, it seems like while he's not personally involved with the mixing of the songs, Brian still calls the shots.  I know it might be hard for some people to admit but it's very possible that Brian is just as responsible for the production decisions as Thomas is for better or worse.

[Jim V.]

Alright folks...let's play nicely. I can see both sides...I personally LOVED TWGMTR, but the live cd can go chase itself for all I care. I for one am happy enough with the fact Brian is still making music!

Amen! That we still have Brian, and that he's healthy and happy and that he put out "From There To Back Again" last year is more than enough for me. He is still awesome, and although certain things aren't done the way I would do it, it's ok with me.

[jeffcdo]

I'm a big Jeff Beck fan too, so I'm hugely stoked for this album.  I only wish I was in a better position to make it out to one of the shows on the tour.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

But I don't think anyone was saying the stuff you mention. That's why I disregarded it.

No one's accused Brian of coasting. You imagined that's what people were saying because it suited the point you wanted to make.

Classic strawman.

No, instead people were saying that the existence of other credited people involved in the project was cheapening Brian's legacy, because obviously their presence means that Brian wasn't really putting his back into producing.

Which is close enough to his point.

Regards,
JOn Blum

Where did anyone say that?

Brian has always collabarted and had people to write with / bounce ideas off.

It's Joe Thomas's involvement which has got people's back up. 'Cos his production style is repugnant. Slathering Brian's voice in autotune is, in my opinion, like urinating on the Mona Lisa. That's how strongly I feel about it

But you're the sort of fan I don't understand. The one for whom empathy seems to be a real problem.

Where did that come from?  All I said was that I find it hard to understand how a fan of the Beach Boys can dismiss their latest album in its entirety - one that is very highly regarded by many people.  This is indicative of some sort of character flaw on my part?  It just doesn't make sense to me.

If you can't see how that's offensive then you do have a character flaw.

Well I can't stand it. It sounds awful, I can't listen to it. I don't care how highly regarded it is. No one question's Mike Eder's fandom when he airs his hatred for Love You in pretty much every thread he posts in, and that's a highly regarded album.

I'm sure there's stuff I love which leaves you cold. I wouldn't question your loyalty to the band, so drop it, OK?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Not trying to stir the pot, but I took ...'I find it hard to understand how a fan of the Beach Boys can dismiss their latest album in its entirety' to be more along the lines of liking it so much that not understanding how a fellow fan wouldn't like it, which is completely different from 'if you don't like it, you can't call yourself a fan'. I didn't take it as questioning your loyalty.  Just like some are shocked when I say 'Don't Hurt My Little Sister' is one of my least favorite BB songs. Quite a few people like it. For me, the melody doesn't quite gel. Not that fond of 'In the Back Of My Mind' that much either (although it sounds MUCH better single-tracked and in stereo IMHO).

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'm sure that is how he meant it Billy. It's still offensive. Imagine if I said the opposite

"I just don't get how any Beach Boys fan could like a single track on this awful album"

Offensive, yes? It's dismissive, it questions people's tastes. It tries to dictate what being a Beach Boys fan is. That's how I took his remark.

And the insinuation that just because lots of people like it, it automatically warrants respect, is just ludicrous.

[Nicko1234]

No, instead people were saying that the existence of other credited people involved in the project was cheapening Brian's legacy, because obviously their presence means that Brian wasn't really putting his back into producing.

I think the point that poster was making was that using the 'produced by Brian Wilson' credit when he isn't the sole producer cheapens things because it is inaccurate and misleading.

[jeffcdo]

I'm sure that is how he meant it Billy. It's still offensive. Imagine if I said the opposite
"I just don't get how any Beach Boys fan could like a single track on this awful album"
Offensive, yes? It's dismissive, it questions people's tastes. It tries to dictate what being a Beach Boys fan is. That's how I took his remark.
And the insinuation that just because lots of people like it, it automatically warrants respect, is just ludicrous.

I still don't understand your mean-spirited responses.  All I said was that I don't understand how somebody who is a fan of the Beach Boys (ostensibly) could dismiss such a well-regarded album from their catalog in its entirety.  That makes no sense to me.  I'm not judging you.  Everybody has a right to their opinions.

That so many people like TWGMTR seems to suggest that it's pretty good.  A lot of people hate "Summer In Paradise."  Now that's an album I can understand dismissing in its entirety.  I don't think I'm really going out on a limb here.

I'd appreciate you tempering your insults Stephen.  I mean no disrespect.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

My replies seem mean spirited to you because I find your remark offensive.

But you cannot understand why your remark is offensive, and neither of us is going to back down.

This is going to go round in circles, isn't it

OK, Jeffcdo, I'll accept you meant no offense. In future I'd consider rephrasing that sort of remark though, it's very open to interpretation.

[buddhahat]

 I can empathise with the frustrations about use of autotune etc. but if I'm absolutely honest I have to admit there was a certain sheen and gloss to TWGMTR that made it sound better through headphones than any of Brian's recent albums, to my ears anyway. It all just sounded tighter to me.

It aso strikes me that, for whatever reason, Brian feels comfortable enough with Thomas to write some of his best material in years, or maybe he was just rising to the challenge of working with The Beach Boys again.

Ultimately whatever gets Brian writing and in the studio once more is alright by me, because I hope that beneath all the autotune and amongst the inevitable adult contemporary dross there will be a few new BW gems.

[phirnis]

No, instead people were saying that the existence of other credited people involved in the project was cheapening Brian's legacy, because obviously their presence means that Brian wasn't really putting his back into producing.

I think the point that poster was making was that using the 'produced by Brian Wilson' credit when he isn't the sole producer cheapens things because it is inaccurate and misleading.

Right, it's inaccurate. The way I see it, "Produced by Brian Wilson" actually means something. It's a very powerful tag that stands for a certain purity, an artistic vision that is entirely his. I'm perfectly fine with a more collaborative approach in terms of production and I don't even mind Joe Thomas' presence despite the awful autotune. But don't call it "Produced (solely) by BW" then, as that tag should be reserved for stuff like Today, Pet Sounds, Love You, you name it. (Even though, funnily enough, the latter may be the first instance of a "Produced by BW" record being not that one person's vision only, hence Carl's credit as "mixdown producer"...)

[Nicko1234]

Didn't Al also describe Paul Mertens as being 'the producer'?

[Micha]

Listened to TWGMTR (my custom version) in the car today. It was really fun to listen! The Autotune took some getting used to last year, but now I hardly notice it.

[The Shift]

FAcebook 30 mins ago:
Blondie Chaplin
Blondie Chaplin is pleased to officially announce that he has been invited by Brian Wilson to guest on several dates on Brian's new tour including opening night in Florida, and dates in New York City, Montclair NJ, Las Vegas, LA & Oakland.

[Wirestone]

No, instead people were saying that the existence of other credited people involved in the project was cheapening Brian's legacy, because obviously their presence means that Brian wasn't really putting his back into producing.

I think the point that poster was making was that using the 'produced by Brian Wilson' credit when he isn't the sole producer cheapens things because it is inaccurate and misleading.

Right, it's inaccurate. The way I see it, "Produced by Brian Wilson" actually means something. It's a very powerful tag that stands for a certain purity, an artistic vision that is entirely his. I'm perfectly fine with a more collaborative approach in terms of production and I don't even mind Joe Thomas' presence despite the awful autotune. But don't call it "Produced (solely) by BW" then, as that tag should be reserved for stuff like Today, Pet Sounds, Love You, you name it. (Even though, funnily enough, the latter may be the first instance of a "Produced by BW" record being not that one person's vision only, hence Carl's credit as "mixdown producer"...)

If you know anything about how Brian produced throughout his career, you should know that it's not that simple. Brian himself has said that Chuck Britz was like his co-producer in the 60s. And the notion of what a record producer was and did was vastly different in 1965 as compared with today. It was far less technical. I think that if we're honest, Brian seldom had a singular vision in the studio -- he always depended on the feedback and suggestions of others to make his records pop.

[Wirestone]

FAcebook 30 mins ago:
Blondie Chaplin
Blondie Chaplin is pleased to officially announce that he has been invited by Brian Wilson to guest on several dates on Brian's new tour including opening night in Florida, and dates in New York City, Montclair NJ, Las Vegas, LA & Oakland.

Guess Brian's not going to be singing SOS then ...

[Fall Breaks]

But what about the hand gestures?? Will we still have them??

[Freddie French-Pounce]

FAcebook 30 mins ago:
Blondie Chaplin
Blondie Chaplin is pleased to officially announce that he has been invited by Brian Wilson to guest on several dates on Brian's new tour including opening night in Florida, and dates in New York City, Montclair NJ, Las Vegas, LA & Oakland.

This is brilliant.

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

I'll miss Brian's growl on "DAMN the thunder..."  but it's very cool that BC will be guesting on these dates. Hope someone records the shows with Blondie....those shows will have twice the number of Beach Boys on stage than an actual show by the Beach Boys. Life is odd.