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Author Topic: ID'ing The Brian Wilson 1965 "Girl Scouts" Pic Just Posted On Facebook  (Read 19260 times)
Don Malcolm
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« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 12:17:23 AM »

Hmmm....so THIS is where Brian first got the idea for "Hey Little Tomboy"....

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« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 12:29:47 AM »

11/8/65 - Party ! released

11/22/65 - "TLGIOK" single released

11/27/65 - Party ! debuts at #64: "TLGIOK" also charts at #69

12/20/65 - "B-f-A" single released

1/1/66 - "B-f-A" debuts at #81: "TLGIOK" peaks at #20: Party ! peaks at #6
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« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 12:39:53 AM »

11/8/65 - Party ! released

11/22/65 - "TLGIOK" single released

11/27/65 - Party ! debuts at #64: "TLGIOK" also charts at #69

12/20/65 - "B-f-A" single released

1/1/66 - "B-f-A" debuts at #81: "TLGIOK" peaks at #20: Party ! peaks at #6

Is the TLGIOK release date of 11/22/65 for the UK or the US single or perhaps a few days early? I ask because I most often see a release date given as 11/27/65 for that single.
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« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 12:43:16 AM »

US. Being released and charting on the same day would be exceptional in the 60s.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 12:46:13 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2013, 12:46:55 AM »

If I remember correctly, in a pretty recent interview Brian said Barbara Ann was released by Capitol without giving the Boys notice. I like the story from the book much better, though...
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 12:49:41 AM »

US. Being released and charting on the same day would be exceptional in the 60s.

So where has the release date of 11/27/65 been coming from all these years?  Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2013, 12:50:42 AM »

"B-f-A"

Took a few seconds.
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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2013, 01:03:45 AM »

And I'll boil it down to the essential points if possible, compared to my last one:

Given the timeline for these releases posted above, would it make any sense for Brian to demand a release of a new single within two weeks of his previous single coming out? Unless something is lost in the wording somewhere, wasn't standard practice at that time to give a single from a hot artist at least a month to catch on through airplay and promotions before releasing another one right on top of it, effectively short-circuiting the first one?

Moby Grape was the extreme example of how flooding the market with simultaneous singles was a bad idea, I just cannot believe the Capitol exec's version of Brian demanding a new single release as his current single was just hitting the charts, given the time between TLGIOK and Barbara Ann was a matter of weeks.

Or if he did demand a Barbara Ann release, perhaps *releasing that song* was his idea at some point but not putting it out quite that soon as to torpedo his other release. That would be shooting yourself in the foot, in other words.

Honestly, I just think the story in the book is about another Beach Boys record or incident, I don't buy it 100%.

Ultimately whoever did decide to release Barbara Ann as a single made the right call economically, the success speaks for itself. I just think the market demand from those DJ's playing the album cut led to it and Capitol followed the trending demand for the song by rush-releasing a single edit. Not Brian as much as that book suggests.
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2013, 01:15:13 AM »

This photo which seemed to be new for most people seeing it showed up on Brian's Facebook yesterday, showing him with a group of Girl Scouts holding copies of "The Little Girl I Once Knew" 45rpm single:



The Facebook tag dated this as November 1965. There was also a question posted asking at what studio this photo was taken.

Or could it be at a radio station? Those two doors on the left seem pretty close to each other for big studios. Architecturally, it's possible of course.
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2013, 01:33:43 AM »

It's good to weigh all the possibilities, but when you have that many photos of Brian Wilson at Capitol's event wearing the same clothes and exact same hairstyle as he does in the girl scout photo, and he's in front of studios marked just as Capitol had done since the 1950's, and it was done on a day at Capitol when the press and photographers were there...

I just think at some point we say 2+2 always equals 4, and these photos add up that it's more than likely Capitol as anywhere else.

If it were at a radio station, one of the DJ's or at least the station's call letters would be prominently shown in a photo opportunity like this, to promote that station or link them to The Beach Boys. Or the girls would be wearing pins or something with the station letters. Trust me on that one.  Cheesy
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« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2013, 02:09:38 AM »

I thought AGD had moved on from song acronyms to just quoting the chords
You should see Add Some Music... Smiley
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« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2013, 02:49:36 AM »

TLGIOK was already hitbound in NY on Nov 11 and charting locally at #49 on Nov 13 in Cleveland. By Nov 27 it had already hit #3 in Orlando. It was stilling charting locally clear through January 1966.

B-f-A shows up debuting at #56 in NY on Dec 16.
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« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2013, 03:58:46 AM »


 Grin
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« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2013, 06:08:40 AM »

And I'll boil it down to the essential points if possible, compared to my last one:

Given the timeline for these releases posted above, would it make any sense for Brian to demand a release of a new single within two weeks of his previous single coming out? Unless something is lost in the wording somewhere, wasn't standard practice at that time to give a single from a hot artist at least a month to catch on through airplay and promotions before releasing another one right on top of it, effectively short-circuiting the first one?

Moby Grape was the extreme example of how flooding the market with simultaneous singles was a bad idea, I just cannot believe the Capitol exec's version of Brian demanding a new single release as his current single was just hitting the charts, given the time between TLGIOK and Barbara Ann was a matter of weeks.

Or if he did demand a Barbara Ann release, perhaps *releasing that song* was his idea at some point but not putting it out quite that soon as to torpedo his other release. That would be shooting yourself in the foot, in other words.

Honestly, I just think the story in the book is about another Beach Boys record or incident, I don't buy it 100%.

Ultimately whoever did decide to release Barbara Ann as a single made the right call economically, the success speaks for itself. I just think the market demand from those DJ's playing the album cut led to it and Capitol followed the trending demand for the song by rush-releasing a single edit. Not Brian as much as that book suggests.

Don't forget about the October Jack Benny Performance. The band performed Barbara Ann with Brian on bass.
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« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2013, 09:15:53 AM »

It looks like Capitol to me.
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« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2013, 09:17:21 AM »

I should qualify my remark by saying that I've been in that hallway.
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« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2013, 09:24:54 AM »

It's good to weigh all the possibilities, but when you have that many photos of Brian Wilson at Capitol's event wearing the same clothes and exact same hairstyle as he does in the girl scout photo, and he's in front of studios marked just as Capitol had done since the 1950's, and it was done on a day at Capitol when the press and photographers were there...

I just think at some point we say 2+2 always equals 4, and these photos add up that it's more than likely Capitol as anywhere else.

If it were at a radio station, one of the DJ's or at least the station's call letters would be prominently shown in a photo opportunity like this, to promote that station or link them to The Beach Boys. Or the girls would be wearing pins or something with the station letters. Trust me on that one.  Cheesy


But why should the Everly Brothers be at a Capitol event? They never were signed to that label.
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« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2013, 09:25:13 AM »

This photo which seemed to be new for most people seeing it showed up on Brian's Facebook yesterday, showing him with a group of Girl Scouts holding copies of "The Little Girl I Once Knew" 45rpm single:



The Facebook tag dated this as November 1965. There was also a question posted asking at what studio this photo was taken.

Or could it be at a radio station? Those two doors on the left seem pretty close to each other for big studios. Architecturally, it's possible of course.

It does look like a Girl Scout field trip.  The troop leaders tried to often bring the girls to places where they could get a feel for non-traditional career areas (at that time) for young ladies to to expand their horizons beyond the stereotypical "teacher, nurse or social worker" career tracks.  We were taken to a local TV station yearly to be on a local TV show and see the process firsthand; newsroom, weather maps, etc.  

And, I'm kinda jealous it was not my Girl Scout troop.   LOL
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 09:27:09 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2013, 09:29:06 AM »

This is a great picture... Grin
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« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2013, 09:40:08 AM »

And I'll boil it down to the essential points if possible, compared to my last one:

Given the timeline for these releases posted above, would it make any sense for Brian to demand a release of a new single within two weeks of his previous single coming out? Unless something is lost in the wording somewhere, wasn't standard practice at that time to give a single from a hot artist at least a month to catch on through airplay and promotions before releasing another one right on top of it, effectively short-circuiting the first one?

Moby Grape was the extreme example of how flooding the market with simultaneous singles was a bad idea, I just cannot believe the Capitol exec's version of Brian demanding a new single release as his current single was just hitting the charts, given the time between TLGIOK and Barbara Ann was a matter of weeks.

Or if he did demand a Barbara Ann release, perhaps *releasing that song* was his idea at some point but not putting it out quite that soon as to torpedo his other release. That would be shooting yourself in the foot, in other words.

Honestly, I just think the story in the book is about another Beach Boys record or incident, I don't buy it 100%.

Ultimately whoever did decide to release Barbara Ann as a single made the right call economically, the success speaks for itself. I just think the market demand from those DJ's playing the album cut led to it and Capitol followed the trending demand for the song by rush-releasing a single edit. Not Brian as much as that book suggests.

Looking at the timeline entries, I have to wonder how the LGIOK release came about; could the BfA/Ken Mansfield Conversation have happened  and then Capitol decided to do  the LGIOK release, even tho Brian wanted BfA? 
LGIOK seems to be the Rush release here: 
September
23 - Party ! session: The Times They Are A Changing/You’ve Got To Hide Your Love
       Away/Barbara Ann/Smokey Joe’s Café/Heart and Soul/Long Tall Sally
October
13 - single session; The Little Girl I Once Knew/Don't Talk [rehearsal]
23 - Jack Benny Hour NBC-TV, Burbank CA [13]
24 - single session: The Little Girl I Once Knew
  November 
  8 - Beach Boys Party ! album released
22 - The Little Girl I Once Knew/There's No Other (Like My Baby) single released
  December
20 - Barbara Ann/Girl, Don't Tell Me single released
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« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2013, 10:17:21 AM »

Brian had a habit for closing his eyes when a picture is being taken, I think he still does it now  LOL
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« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2013, 10:21:54 AM »

It's good to weigh all the possibilities, but when you have that many photos of Brian Wilson at Capitol's event wearing the same clothes and exact same hairstyle as he does in the girl scout photo, and he's in front of studios marked just as Capitol had done since the 1950's, and it was done on a day at Capitol when the press and photographers were there...

I just think at some point we say 2+2 always equals 4, and these photos add up that it's more than likely Capitol as anywhere else.

If it were at a radio station, one of the DJ's or at least the station's call letters would be prominently shown in a photo opportunity like this, to promote that station or link them to The Beach Boys. Or the girls would be wearing pins or something with the station letters. Trust me on that one.  Cheesy


But why should the Everly Brothers be at a Capitol event? They never were signed to that label.

You're assuming that photo was taken at the same Capitol Records BB's gold record event, and I don't think there is enough info or strong enough evidence yet that it was. If more photos surface it would clear it up.
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« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2013, 10:26:26 AM »

TLGIOK was already hitbound in NY on Nov 11 and charting locally at #49 on Nov 13 in Cleveland. By Nov 27 it had already hit #3 in Orlando. It was stilling charting locally clear through January 1966.

B-f-A shows up debuting at #56 in NY on Dec 16.

We ran into this issue with the Heroes single, how KHJ was spinning it in mid July '67 and it appeared as a "Hitbound" several weeks prior to the official release.

Interestingly I looked at KRLA's surveys and TLGIOK doesn't appear at all until December 1965. KHJ had it as a hitbound single in their November 17th survey.

Very frustrating when trying to come to any conclusions or facts about these dates, depending on the region these stations were playing advance copies of these records up to 2-3 weeks ahead of the official release.
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« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2013, 10:28:32 AM »

I should qualify my remark by saying that I've been in that hallway.

It looks like Capitol to me.

Thank you for that info! I've looked high and low for any other photos of that hallway and have found nothing.
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« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2013, 11:36:50 AM »

I think it might be easier to date the everly brothers photo.  Brian is either visiting them backstage at a concert or a tv taping. You'd need to see where they appeared in the la area in 1965-66.
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