Would Dennis have been a good frontman?

[lostbeachboy]

I think so.. Perhaps in a groups like Zeppelin, the Who or Queen..
Interesting thing to think about?

[leggo of my ego]

I think so.. Perhaps in a groups like Zeppelin, the Who or Queen..
Interesting thing to think about?

Can you think of any American bands Dennis would have fronted?

How about Alice Cooper?

[Nicko1234]

I think Dennis was perfectly suited to filling the drummer role.

[oldsurferdude]

Absolutely! Had he kept sober, he could have been the real deal instead of having a live in clown on stage who couldn't handle anything but a tamborine. I would have hid mYke luHv way in the back of the lineup and put Dennis out front where he could have been seen by all. He sold tickets by just being there.

[leggo of my ego]

Absolutely! Had he kept sober, he could have been the real deal instead of having a live in clown on stage who couldn't handle anything but a tamborine. I would have hid mYke luHv way in the back of the lineup and put Dennis out front where he could have been seen by all. He sold tickets by just being there.

OSD I'd say your right on but in addition to his many talents on the jangle ring...Cuzin Love blows.

a saxophone

[Jon Stebbins]

Sorry, but in my opinion...no. He didn't have the confidence and chops to consistently handle a frontman role. He was great at physically interacting with the crowd here and there in a totally undisciplined way, and sometimes on a given night he could pull off some great emcee style banter...but only in patches or spurts...not over a long period of time. He also did not have the smooth light-footed coordination of a prancer, dancer and therefore was kind of un-animated and still during uptempo material. He had cement shoes on stage...or what is often called white man's disease...he was a strong athlete...but not a fluid mover to music on his feet. On the drums he was amazing, a powerful force, often the life and balls of the band on stage. But as a "frontman" he could handle coming out and singing a ballad, thanking the audience, and driving the chicks nuts for a song or two...but no way he could do Mike's job over the period of a full set, let alone a full tour or years of it. Frontman was not at all in his vast natural ability wheelhouse. He could do so many things, but that wasn't one of them. And he definitely tried in the '71 - '73 period, taking a virtual co-frontman role with Mike...but Ed Roach has recounted that after a little while of trying to compete with Mike... Dennis' reaction was..."wow, this is harder than it looks"....he was a fabulous rock star, but no way suited to be a rock and roll front man. Pounding the  drums, playing occasional piano, and taking over for a few songs at the microphone was the perfect role for Dennis.

[18thofMay]

Awesome Jon!! Great insight into Dennis and his capabilities!

[BB Universe]

No:
1. Per Odd Suffer Dud, HAD he remainder sober. Well, he could not and did not.
2. Mr. Stebbins' analysis, IMO,  is right on.

[MBE]

Perhaps not but he should have been given more songs on the show.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Rocky Raccoon]

Semi-related question: why did Dennis never sing and drum simultaneously live?

It's not an easy thing to do as good drumming takes focus.  Levon Helm is the only guy I can think of who was really great at doing both simultaneously.

[Jon Stebbins]

Semi-related question: why did Dennis never sing and drum simultaneously live?

Saying he never did in not true. Lets say he rarely did, but there are several examples of him playing drums and singing during Beach Boys concerts. During the '65 and '66 tours he regularly simultaneously drummed and sang lead on Do You Wanna Dance...plenty of photo evidence and concert reviews to confirm that. Also during some phases of '66 and '67 touring he drummed and sang lead on the middle section of Surfer Girl. In '75 to '77 he sang backgrounds on several songs into a boom microphone, and he sang his bit on Its OK during the fade as evident starting at 1:30 here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3gRs_c4DSs

[Jay]

Sorry, but in my opinion...no. He didn't have the confidence and chops to consistently handle a frontman role. He was great at physically interacting with the crowd here and there in a totally undisciplined way, and sometimes on a given night he could pull off some great emcee style banter...but only in patches or spurts...not over a long period of time. He also did not have the smooth light-footed coordination of a prancer, dancer and therefore was kind of un-animated and still during uptempo material. He had cement shoes on stage...or what is often called white man's disease...he was a strong athlete...but not a fluid mover to music on his feet. On the drums he was amazing, a powerful force, often the life and balls of the band on stage. But as a "frontman" he could handle coming out and singing a ballad, thanking the audience, and driving the chicks nuts for a song or two...but no way he could do Mike's job over the period of a full set, let alone a full tour or years of it. Frontman was not at all in his vast natural ability wheelhouse. He could do so many things, but that wasn't one of them. And he definitely tried in the '71 - '73 period, taking a virtual co-frontman role with Mike...but Ed Roach has recounted that after a little while of trying to compete with Mike... Dennis' reaction was..."wow, this is harder than it looks"....he was a fabulous rock star, but no way suited to be a rock and roll front man. Pounding the  drums, playing occasional piano, and taking over for a few songs at the microphone was the perfect role for Dennis.

Great insight, Jon.   It actually made me realise something I hadn't really thought about until now. All three Wilson brothers, while doing a great job on their respective part during the show, seemed to have been uncomfortable onstage, to a certain degree. From what you just said above, it seems like Dennis was probably more comfortable behind a piano or keyboard whenever he wasn't playing drums. Just like Brian with the bass. If you see the pictures of Carl without a guitar during the 1982-83 period, and see the Seattle 1983 footage, Carl looks very uncomfortable without his guitar while he was singing "What You Do To Me". All three of them seemed to have some degree of stage fright. I never noticed that until now.

[zachrwolfe]

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[filledeplage]

Sorry, but in my opinion...no. He didn't have the confidence and chops to consistently handle a frontman role. He was great at physically interacting with the crowd here and there in a totally undisciplined way, and sometimes on a given night he could pull off some great emcee style banter...but only in patches or spurts...not over a long period of time. He also did not have the smooth light-footed coordination of a prancer, dancer and therefore was kind of un-animated and still during uptempo material. He had cement shoes on stage...or what is often called white man's disease...he was a strong athlete...but not a fluid mover to music on his feet. On the drums he was amazing, a powerful force, often the life and balls of the band on stage. But as a "frontman" he could handle coming out and singing a ballad, thanking the audience, and driving the chicks nuts for a song or two...but no way he could do Mike's job over the period of a full set, let alone a full tour or years of it. Frontman was not at all in his vast natural ability wheelhouse. He could do so many things, but that wasn't one of them. And he definitely tried in the '71 - '73 period, taking a virtual co-frontman role with Mike...but Ed Roach has recounted that after a little while of trying to compete with Mike... Dennis' reaction was..."wow, this is harder than it looks"....he was a fabulous rock star, but no way suited to be a rock and roll front man. Pounding the  drums, playing occasional piano, and taking over for a few songs at the microphone was the perfect role for Dennis.

..."wow, this is harder than it looks." Excellent recall from Ed Roach...it is tough to be "reading an audience" and keep things flowing, when little sound glitches happen, or transitioning between songs in the setlist.  Great post!  

[Don Malcolm]

Clearly Dennis was more naturally inclined to be a "back door man" than a front man. 

He also was more inclined to intensely emotional material, which meant that he was not the optimal singer for the up-tempo hits. Brian was pretty much on the money when he doled out songs, and he knew which voice was best suited to a given song.

A proper BB show, built along the lines of the C50 structure, would have had three or four places for Dennis to step forward. It would showcase his unique talents as a singer/songwriter, and give Mike some additional respite from all that lead singing. (BTW, did anyone quantify the number of lead vocals done by the various singers on the C50 tour? Is Mike singing 50% of the leads? Anyone have that data??)

[filledeplage]

Clearly Dennis was more naturally inclined to be a "back door man" than a front man.  

He also was more inclined to intensely emotional material, which meant that he was not the optimal singer for the up-tempo hits. Brian was pretty much on the money when he doled out songs, and he knew which voice was best suited to a given song.

A proper BB show, built along the lines of the C50 structure, would have had three or four places for Dennis to step forward. It would showcase his unique talents as a singer/songwriter, and give Mike some additional respite from all that lead singing. (BTW, did anyone quantify the number of lead vocals done by the various singers on the C50 tour? Is Mike singing 50% of the leads? Anyone have that data??)

Interesting point...it was a different role for Brian with his solo shows to have to give the back story of just about every song. it wasn't something that he seemed to ever have a steady diet of, but he sort of "grew in the job" by necessity as the band leader on tour.  

One thing I've noticed is that Brian seems to "take it all in" (the audience) and not miss much, as far as what is going on in the audience.  He really does pay attention while staying on task with the setlist.  And seems so much more relaxed since his early days as a solo act on the road.

Of the Wilson brothers, I think Carl did a nice job of telling a backstory, but, no one has had the "groove going" as MC, keeping a show moving as Mike, with all the funny "uncomfortable seat" quips that have made us chuckle over time.

But, as for Dennis; he was like a comet, with his ability to blaze through a song (or several) and fully engage the audience, making them almost "one" with the band, almost feeding off one another's energy during a show.  

Special guy.  

[MaxL]

A proper BB show, built along the lines of the C50 structure, would have had three or four places for Dennis to step forward. It would showcase his unique talents as a singer/songwriter, and give Mike some additional respite from all that lead singing. (BTW, did anyone quantify the number of lead vocals done by the various singers on the C50 tour? Is Mike singing 50% of the leads? Anyone have that data??)

My spreadsheet (that's right, that's how sad I am) has Mike at about 29 leads out 61. There's a lot of variables in the list though such as what you'd consider a lead as opposed to a prominent backing vocal etc. For the purpose of ease I've discounted doubling as a lead, if I counted doubling then there's a whole bunch of more work to do. Also remember that some leads are split so the numbers don't add up to 61 (or they would if I went through and counted a two-way lead as 0.5 etc.). Behind Mike  is Brian with about 21, which is a lot closer than I would've thought. Alan ≈ 11, Bruce ≈ 4 (only 2 of them "solo" spots if you count "Wendy" as a solo lead) and David is 2, give or take ("Hawaii" and "Getcha Back", although obviously he stopped singing the former quite early in the tour). Also there's Jeff and Scott T with 2 a piece (Jeff's would be much more if I counted doubling and falsetto leads but then we'd be here all day) and Darian, Carl and Dennis with one a piece. Some songs I've counted as a "group" lead like "In My Room" and "Our Prayer".

I'm sure my results would vary from other peoples' depending on their criteria, so I'd encourage someone else to undertake this pointless exercise too

[Mike's Beard]

Carl took more leads as time went by but I always considered Mike the only frontman for the band.

[BB Universe]

Picking up on a previous post and entering the realm of "what if', if Dennis were alive (and in decent voice) and had participated in the C50 Tour, on what songs (other than Forever) do you think he would he have been lead? I'd guess that Do You Want To Dance would have been included in the set (and the CD!) and probably a solo on You Are So Beautiful.

[Emdeeh]

... there are several examples of him playing drums and singing during Beach Boys concerts. During the '65 and '66 tours he regularly simultaneously drummed and sang lead on Do You Wanna Dance...plenty of photo evidence and concert reviews to confirm that.

How about an eyewitness account? I saw Dennis sing and play drums in Memphis during the timeframe in question.

I agree with Jon's assessment of Dennis as a frontman. It was fun having him up in the front line, tho.

Of the three brothers, Carl was the one with the most natural moves onstage imho, especially when he was playing guitar and singing.

[oldsurferdude]

No:
1. Per Odd Suffer Dud, HAD he remainder sober. Well, he could not and did not.
2. Mr. Stebbins' analysis, IMO,  is right on.

Why in the Hell do you think I said "HAD"? It was just an opinion, man. Try another universe.
       
      Odd Suffer Dud.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Carl took more leads as time went by but I always considered Mike the only frontman for the band.

From listening to the '73 In Concert album, I get the impression Carl was more of a frontman than Mike at least at the time. 
That would probably make sense too given Jack Rieley's animosity towards Mike.

[drbeachboy]

Carl took more leads as time went by but I always considered Mike the only frontman for the band.

From listening to the '73 In Concert album, I get the impression Carl was more of a frontman than Mike at least at the time.  
That would probably make sense too given Jack Rieley's animosity towards Mike.

From the shows that I attended between 72-73, yes Carl was more involved with introducing songs and some mild banter. Dennis pretty much just bantered and connected with the audience, but Mike was still the frontman. He did most of the intros, told jokes etc. He was just less upfront about it, as opposed to 1974 onward.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Semi-related question: why did Dennis never sing and drum simultaneously live?

As just one example: check out the 76 It's OK footage of ..."It's OK". Dennis sings the "find a ride" part very well while doing a tricky beat dropping thing on every 4 count.

Oops! Didn't realize John had already posed the clip of what I'm talking about.