The Astrology of the Beach Boys

[TMinthePM]

While reflecting on the lyrics of Funky Pretty I got to thinking about astrological references in Beach Boys songs - Strange Things Happen - and then I was reminded of an article detailing the astrological significance of the Beatles - Fire Sign John, Air Sign Paul, Water Sign George, Earth Sign Ringo - and I got to wondering about the grand cosmic calendar and the career of the Beach Boys. For example - it has been pointed out that the astrological configuration of present time is the mirror image of that which prevailed in the '60s, with a strong Neptunian influence. Now, the correlation of Neptune, God of the Sea, and the Beach Boys water references is self evident.

What I'm wondering is whether the ebb and flow of their career correlates with the ebb and flow of Celestial influences? Early 60s High Tide - Late 60s low Tide. 2012 High Tide.

Any Cosmically Conscious type folks out there to help me out on this one?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

This will sound terribly sexist, but it's mainly guys on this board, and  doesn't it tend to be women who believe in this sort of thing?

I don't know a single man who believes in astrology, but many (though not all) of the women I know do.

[TMinthePM]

Not helpful.

Next!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Pointless thread.

Next!

[TMinthePM]

THE VOICE HAS SPOKEN.

NEXT!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

 



All I meant initially was, politely, this doesn't really strike me as an "astrology" sort of meassage board. I could very well be wrong though.

[TMinthePM]

OK. Let me start over.

These guys are artists. Right?

As such they are attuned to the currents of thought of the times in which they live and create.

Now, like it or not astrology is central to counter-cultural thought. Age of Aquarius - right!

Google Rick Tarnas for a detailed explication of archetypal astrology. Plato is not so easily dismissed.

To the point - there are indeed astrological references peppered throughout the Beach Boys work as expressions of the spirit of the age.

So, all I'm wondering is how an astrologer might correlate the tides in the times of these men?

[AndrewHickey]

This will sound terribly sexist, but it's mainly guys on this board, and  doesn't it tend to be women who believe in this sort of thing?

It does sound terribly sexist, yes -- and just for one, Mike Love believes in astrology.

That said, astrology is utter nonsense, and while there may be correlations, you could just as easily find correlations with anything.

Take US Presidents, for example -- clearly the Beach Boys are more successful under Presidents who were the Vice President in the previous administration, especially if that President took over mid-term.

Just look at the facts -- Johnson (who took over in the middle of the previous administration) is the President under whom they have their greatest success. Nixon, their career craters. Ford takes over mid-term, at exactly the same time Endless Summer gives them a career burst, and stays in until 1977, at which point they tank, and stay irrelevant right through to 1988, and right at the point at which it becomes certain that George Bush, the Vice President, will be the next President, Kokomo hits. Over the next few years they have Still Cruisin' (one of their biggest selling albums), regular guest spots on popular sitcoms, and renewed popularity. Right up until the point that Clinton (who, like Carter, Reagan and Nixon before him, wasn't the VP in the previous administration) takes over in the polls and becomes the certain election winner. When they put out Summer In Paradise and spend the next eight years suing each other and having a terrible time.

It's obvious! Wake up, sheeple!

[AndrewHickey]

Plato is not so easily dismissed.

Yes he is. He was a cretin. There, I dismissed him. Next.

[Mike's Beard]

We really are running out of things to talk about.

[TMinthePM]

Man...you guys are coming across as totally spiritually barren.

I've been into the Beach boys since 1964 and I've always responded to the deep spiritual dimension of their music - Warmth of the Sun? Whew!

All those beautiful ballads produced in the 60's drenched in Romanticism. Side 2 of Today? One of the supreme achievements of the rock era!

And then the Zen-like epiphanies that constitute the Friends LP.

And the ecological themes - A Day in the Life of a Tree not a prayer? I beg to differ.

I didn't start this thread to promote astrology as such, but expected to engage with some ideas related to the artistry of this band on a higher level.

So, if there is a fellow Aquarian out there please chime in.

 

[AndrewHickey]

Romanticism != prayer != spirituality != zen != astrology. Having no time for the superficial cultural-appropriating nonsense of newage (rhymes with sewage) 'thinking' does not make one "spiritually barren", it just means one has a basic ability to think critically, rather than a mind so open one's brain falls out.

That said, let me go through your earlier post line-by-line, and show you why it's possibly not going down as well as you might have expected. I'm not meaning to be rude here, incidentally, but I have a terrible headache, so I probably am. Apologies in advance.

These guys are artists. Right?

Arguable. Brian and Dennis certainly thought of themselves as artists at times. Possibly/probably the others did too, but I'd bet that at least some of them think of themselves as entertainers first and foremost. But we'll stipulate this to go forward.

As such they are attuned to the currents of thought of the times in which they live and create.

Citation needed.
You're making several independent assertions here:
a) that there is such a thing as "the currents of thought of the times"
b) that it is possible to be "attuned" to these currents
and c) that by definition artists are so attuned.

You have provided no evidence for these claims. In fact I would think they were demonstrably false. I am an artist of sorts myself (I've written several books and a lot of songs -- nothing like on the same level as the Beach Boys, but enough to have some idea of the qualia of artistic creation) and have never felt "attuned to the currents of thought". I think the same goes for most artists. But in fact we *know* this wasn't the case for Brian, specifically, because one of his greatest works, I Just Wasn't Made For These Times is precisely and explicitly about how he *isn't* "attuned to the currents of thought of the times". Implicitly much of Smile, with its longing for a lost mythological past of America/childhood, is about the same theme, though how much of that is Van Dyke Parks is arguable.

So the two works commonly considered the band's most important argue against your thesis, such as it is. On to the next point.

Now, like it or not astrology is central to counter-cultural thought. Age of Aquarius - right!

This contains an implicit assumption that the Beach Boys were in some way "counter-cultural". If they were, it was for a vanishingly small period of their career, and for the most part they have been as utterly mainstream as it's possible to get.

Google Rick Tarnas for a detailed explication of archetypal astrology.

Rick Tarnas is a Jungian, which is another word for "idiot".

Plato is not so easily dismissed.

Yes he is. The central split in the immediate post-Socratic philosophers was between Plato's belief that reality could only be understood by the contemplation of one's own mind, and Aristotle's argument in favour of empiricism combined with logic.

EVERY SINGLE CULTURAL, SCIENTIFIC OR SOCIETAL BREAKTHROUGH that has happened in the succeeding 2400 years has confirmed that on this central issue, Aristotle was right and Plato was wrong. Plato argued for dictatorship over democracy, for the banning of music, and in general for a closedness of vision that is archetypically totalitarian, anti-progress, and anti-humanity. He was, quite simply, wrong.

To the point - there are indeed astrological references peppered throughout the Beach Boys work as expressions of the spirit of the age.

Not 'as expressions of the spirit of the age'. As expressions of the specific beliefs of Mike Love and Jack Rieley.

So, all I'm wondering is how an astrologer might correlate the tides in the times of these men?

And suddenly you've jumped from "these people believed this" to "this is true and has an effect on the real world". If Mike Love (say) believed there were invisible elephants in the recording studio, then it would be reasonable to look at how that affected his songwriting and performances -- look for mentions of invisible elephants in the lyrics, screams of "please don't trample me, Jumbo!" in the backing vocals, that sort of thing. But to ask what effect *the actual elephants had* would be a different matter, as they simply don't exist.

(Of course this is the central fallacy of Platonic thought, too -- the idea that just because we can conceive of something, that means it's real...)

[drbeachboy]

Holy Crap! At one point in time Astrology was thought of as a religion. Personally, I find people who believe in Astrology no different than those who believe in any other type of religion or whatever. Whether Brian or the other Boys' believed in it fully, no one can really say. The astrology chart was included on the back cover of Smile, so there was at least a fascination with it from time to time. Like you said, Mike apparently has a belief in it in some form or another. Calling out the OP on this is just a bit over the top. I think it was a reasonable question to pose.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Man...you guys are coming across as totally spiritually barren.

Welcome to the Smiley Smile board!

I did try to warn you.......

[AndrewHickey]

Calling out the OP on this is just a bit over the top. I think it was a reasonable question to pose.

No-one "called out the OP" until he started being rude and dismissive to other posters.

[drbeachboy]

Stephen was just a little out of line there. That post would would not have set well with me neither. The OP was correct with his response. Seriously, if you have nothing to say or add about a subject, then don't post. Had no one been interested, the thread would have just faded away. I mean if Mike believes in Astrology, then the topic applies to this Beach Boys forum, and since Mike is a guy, then Astrology is not just a woman's thing. Just saying...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Stephen was just a little out of line there. That post would would not have set well with me neither. The OP was correct with his response. Seriously, if you have nothing to say or add about a subject, then don't post. Had no one been interested, the thread would have just faded away. I mean if Mike believes in Astrology, then the topic applies to this Beach Boys forum, and since Mike is a guy, then Astrology is not just a woman's thing. Just saying...

I don't think I was out of line. I was quite polite. And if I started a thread entitled "Does Bruce Johnson's belief in elves and faeries have some truth behind it?" then I'd expect a little light hearted dismissiveness.

Yes, I could have stayed out of it, but it's a public forum, and I wasn't being rude, I felt I was warning him he was likely to get some stick.

As for the sexist thing. I don't know a single man who believes in this, but plenty of women (including my dear sisters). I don't believe in shying away from a truth just because you can get accused of being sexist, or islamophobic or something. And what's the harm in astrology. As silly beleif systems go, its pretty innocous. No one is getting burnt at the stake or blown up over it. But it is a largely feminine preoccupation, as is crystal healing and tarot readings.

But give me these people over fundamental christian creationists or dogmatic Muslims (of which there are usually more men) any day!!!

[AndrewHickey]

As for the sexist thing. I don't know a single man who believes in this, but plenty of women (including my dear sisters). I don't believe in shying away from a truth just because you can get accused of being sexist, or islamophobic or something.

According to this Gallup poll - http://www.gallup.com/poll/19558/paranormal-beliefs-come-supernaturally-some.aspx -- about twice as many British women as men believe in astrology. But that's a cultural difference rather than something inherent in gender -- in the USA, 23% of men believe in astrology to 28% of women, which is within the margin of error of equality.

[drbeachboy]

Stephen was just a little out of line there. That post would would not have set well with me neither. The OP was correct with his response. Seriously, if you have nothing to say or add about a subject, then don't post. Had no one been interested, the thread would have just faded away. I mean if Mike believes in Astrology, then the topic applies to this Beach Boys forum, and since Mike is a guy, then Astrology is not just a woman's thing. Just saying...

I don't think I was out of line. I was quite polite. And if I started a thread entitled "Does Bruce Johnson's belief in elves and faeries have some truth behind it?" then I'd expect a little light hearted dismissiveness.

Yes, I could have stayed out of it, but it's a public forum, and I wasn't being rude, I felt I was warning him he was likely to get some stick.

As for the sexist thing. I don't know a single man who believes in this, but plenty of women (including my dear sisters). I don't believe in shying away from a truth just because you can get accused of being sexist, or islamophobic or something. And what's the harm in astrology. As silly beleif systems go, its pretty innocous. No one is getting burnt at the stake or blown up over it. But it is a largely feminine preoccupation, as is crystal healing and tarot readings.

But give me these people over fundamental christian creationists or dogmatic Muslims (of which there are usually more men) any day!!!

I hear you. Mike believes in Astrology, so that makes it relevant here, and he is a guy last time I checked. Like you, I am not into the sexist pc stuff. Look, we know Brian was into it off and on; wasn't Heroes and Villains released based on a date given to him by an Astrologer? In another thread we have been talking about astrology songs like Funky Pretty and Strange Things Happen. Talking about it's influence or lack thereof is relevant and maybe even interesting if anyone knows more aout it.

[AndrewHickey]

I hear you. Mike believes in Astrology, so that makes it relevant here, and he is a guy last time I checked. Like you, I am not into the sexist pc stuff. Look, we know Brian was into it off and on; wasn't Heroes and Villains released based on a date given to him by an Astrologer? In another thread we have been talking about astrology songs like Funky Pretty and Strange Things Happen. Talking about it's influence or lack thereof is relevant and maybe even interesting if anyone knows more aout it.

There is a huge difference, though, between asking what influence the band members' beliefs in astrology had over their art, which is a reasonable and potentially interesting question, and asking what influence actual astrological phenomena had over their career, to which the only sensible answer is "absolutely none at all, obviously". The OP seems, rather incoherently, to be asking the latter question rather than the former.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

At no point did I say, or even hint it was inherent in gender, though these views are coming back into vogue. When I was young, the current feminist thinking was that there was no mental difference between the sexes.

Being the father of a daughter, of whom we bring up to be very challenging of gender stereotypes, I can tell you there really does seem to be a difference. She gradeated quite naturally, and at a very young age towards more nurturing, traditionally feminine play, despite the fact there was construction, building etc toys available. Lots of parents of daughters say the same. Of course there are many exceptions

In the case of supernatural beliefs as a whole though, this is common in both sexes. Obviously the new age thing is cultural as you say.

[drbeachboy]

You have a point Andrew, but if Brian was relying on an Astrologer for Heroes, then at that point at least, he was using Astrology to direct their career. From all that I have read, it doesn't seem to have had much, if any influence, but then again it may have been used without our knowledge of it and there may be others out there who know more about it than has been discussed here. With the Beach Boys, almost anything is possible.

[TMinthePM]

Sorry to have disappeared for awhile but had to go out and live my so-called life for a few hours.

Well, this is the first I've received a hickey since high school. No matter.

Ah, yeah...New Age for sure...Counter Cultural...absolutely.

So still no answer to my original query. Guess we need someone who can do the charts.

This idea that the kaleidoscope in the skies now "mirrors" that of the 60s is interesting. But what does it mean to mirror something? Is it a matter of opposites or compliments? I mean, I don't think the 60s are coming back - been there, done that - but the cosmic weather report seems to indicate revolutionary storms. Hmmm...

And I know what the Beach Boys meant when they said last year that the new album felt like 1965. Definitely!

So, what do the planets mean? And have you ever seen...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I don't think the 60s are coming back

I do, in  46 and a half years.

[TMinthePM]

Which also got me to thinking about a tune entitled All This Is That.

Just beautiful.

But what does it mean other that As Above So Below.