How much of American Spring was Brian responsible for?

[MBE]

why does it matter so much to people how much "Brian" is in it?

If it's good music then it's good music, regardless of who was involved. Brian being involved to a greater or lesser extent doesn't change the music on your record one bit.

Personally, i love it. Couldn't care less how much Brian did what, as long as someone did it.

I love it as well but have to admit that I do care about who did what to a certain extent because it makes good music even more interesting. To me, Spring is essentially an album full of emulations of BW's then signature style with the man himself occasionally active and present, which is itself a very strange and therefore intriguing way of making a record.

I'd say it's probably the first record, chronologically, that makes you wonder what the tag 'Produced by Brian Wilson' might really mean from a certain point on.

Okay, perhaps I didn't express myself very well. I'm interested too, but I guess I meant more that it seems like some people won't like it if it turns out that a particular idea wasn't actually Brian's. It seems to me that some people are more concerned to verify that Brian was involved before they'll consider liking it (see the Out in the Country and Sweet & Bitter songs that appeared on youtube.).

Ah yes, I see! I used to be a bit like that as well during the first years of fandom.

Mike, really looking forward to reading it! Did you manage to talk to Brian himself about it and did he remember?

Yeah he still likes Marilyn's voice a lot. He seemed to like the record but no real info on it from him.

[RangeRoverA1]

Also, come on, let's have a discussion about how awkward "Tennessee Waltz" must've been to record?

Not to me. Very beautiful cover! There's sth. about the way Marilyn sings it that I find homey & charming. The arrangements are classy, typical Brian. Wish it was longer than 1:56 min.

Another song I like is "Shyin' Away". Really great performance here, not the 1st time when I hear jazz notes in Marilyn's voice. It's such a great song overall! Full of elegance, grace & light positivity.

Other than that, the BBs' versions of Good Time, Had to Phone Ya, Lady etc. are much superior to the ones sung by American Spring. In my humble opinion.

[Mr. Cohen]

I think "Everybody" is an amazing cover. That little interlude before the outro with the finger snap and bird noises is really cool, and I wonder what the deal is with those church bells. They sound sampled and are played back at different octaves, which is a pretty odd approach for the early 70s but would later be used frequently in the 90s. I love how an electric guitar echos the notes, which are first played so low you almost can't hear anything, but then take over during the fade.

[Rocky Raccoon]

"Sweet Mountain" is incredible, wow.  I wish the Beach Boys would have done a version, would have fit perfectly on Surf's Up or Holland.

[MBE]

It really is a good album. Too bad so few people hear the original Fallin In Love 45  mix, you can't even hear Dennis' original cut in the background of the single. I wonder why the LP and CD reissues use such a weird mix.

[Seaside Woman]

I loved that album and I wish it would get a re-release with some bonus material included especially 'Snowflakes'.

David Sandler went onto the Blueboard several years ago introduced himself and was happy to answer any questions, there weren't any takers apart from myself, unbelievable. I wish he would've found his way here.

I asked him about Sweet Mountain and to the best of my recollection he said Brian worked on the bridge and some harmonies.

[MBE]

Sandler gave me a great interview. I think it shows off some of the more normal sides Brian still had at the time.

[Seaside Woman]

OT l know but this thread prompted me to do a search and Sandler released an album last year and the melodies melodies and harmonies have pleased me so much I just ordered it.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/northernlight4

[puni puni]

OT l know but this thread prompted me to do a search and Sandler released an album last year and the melodies melodies and harmonies have pleased me so much I just ordered it.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/northernlight4

He should reissue this album without the horrible autotune and mixing.

[Seaside Woman]

I'm very lucky (or not) I can only hear music. The production of the thing usually goes straight over the top of my head:)

My CD has been shipped, fair play for CDBaby, they don't hang about.

[RangeRoverA1]

Last afternoon, surfing YT, I found 1 beautiful song-outtake by American Spring called "Snowflakes". It's the 1st time I heard it but I already think, after 10 or so plays, that it's one of the gems in the girls' career, alongside "Everybody", "Tennessee Waltz", "Shyin' Away", "Down Home" & "Sweet Mountain". Marilyn's voice is perfect, she didn't make any technical mistakes here like she used to in other works. The arrangement is wonderful! So uplifting, cheery & light. All in all, it is a great find, cool to hear sth. new related to BW/BBs. Now, my playlist of "American Spring" will have no dreadful "Superstar". Instead - "Snowflakes"!

[Seaside Woman]

I seem to remember when Marilyn was over here at a BB related event some years ago she was talking about  a remastered version of that album including Snowflakes and other unheard songs being mooted. It must have fallen by the wayside.

[RangeRoverA1]

At a BB related event some years ago, Marilyn was talking about a remastered version of that album including Snowflakes. It must have fallen by the wayside.

Really? Very interesting, and sad the remaster didn't happen. I'd joyfully download it legally from the best source if it did (albeit mainly for the aforementioned songs I like).

[Amy B.]

With "Tennessee Waltz," it sounds like either Brian arranged it or someone was really, really trying to make it sound like Brian arranged it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The production and arranging credits are listed on the album.

[Amy B.]

The production and arranging credits are listed on the album.

I don't have the album.   

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, here's a redaction:

Produced by BW & SWD, arranged by BW: Good Time/Everybody/Tennessee Waltz/Down Home

Produced by BW, SWD and DS, music arranged by Rick Henn, vocals by BW: Forever/Superstar

Produced by BW, SWD & DS, music arr by DS, vocals by BW: This Whole World/Mama Said/Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby

Produced by BW, SWD & DS, music arr by BW & DS, vocals by BW: Sweet Mountain

Produced & arranged by BW & DS: Now That Everything's Been Said

Produced by DS, music arr by Rick Henn, vocals by BW: Awake

So...

Brian co-produced all tracks except one: no solo productions.

He fully arranged (music & vocals) four tracks.

He co-arranged one track.

He arranged all the vocals on seven further tracks.

He co-arranged the music on one further track.

Of course, the huge caveat here is that the credits are anything like accurate. I think they're pretty reliable as the five tracks which Brian had most to do with sure have his fingerprints (allowing that for "Good Time" he merely reused an existing Beach Boys master and wiped his own lead vocal).

If I had to construct a vague sessions timeline from this (admittedly less-than-impeccable) evidence, it'd be this:

Now That Everything's Been Said/Awake - the first single, one session dated 10/8/71

Good Time/Everybody/Tennessee Waltz/Down Home

Sweet Mountain

This Whole World/Mama Said/Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby

Forever/Superstar

... and I'd propose that Brian kinda lost real interest after the "Sweet Mountain" session(s). What I wouldn't give for the AFM sheets for this album !

[Jukka]

Interesting. I'd say that's way more than "25 percent".

[feelsflow]

Been listening to Spring since release, July 1972. Every track Brian sings on is granted an extra edge.  Not included in the "rank the tracks" section, I'll put it here.

1.  Sweet Mountain - Diane and Marilyn.  Could The Boys have done this better, maybe not. Keep up hope they will someday find it at the end of a reel.

2.  Awake - Marilyn with Diane. This would have fit right in on Friends.  Marilyn is a great singer.  Have this on my Friends era comp., after Wake the World natch.  Need to research when it was written.  Brian's demo is one I've only discovered recently.  The sequencing, with my #1, on the record is a one-two-punch. Killed by Superstar, which is just too sad to follow.  That's not Brian.

3.  Everybody - Diane's showcase.  Tough to put it before those King numbers, but it belongs at #3.  I had the Tommy Roe 45 when I was a kid, big Hit - #3 in the USA/#9 UK, need I say, Spring brings so much more. A thrill.

4.  Down Home - Marilyn is the lead, but Diane helps make this the definitive version of this song. Carole wrote this for Little Eva in 1962, they took it away ten years later.

5.  Now That Everything's Been Said - Marilyn with Diane and David.  Don't think for a moment that Carole King was not a big influence on this record. I'm sure they knew her.  I still have my City long-player from 1968, and was lucky enough to have seen her back in 1970 when she was in Taylor's band.  He persuaded her to sing one lead - Up On The Roof.  I've seen Marilyn and Diane live too.  They played this.

6.  Mama Said - Marilyn is credited with the lead, but Diane and Brian add a lot.  This is a group vocal, Marilyn is pushing it claiming a lead.  This song is Southern through and through.  Right up there with Back Home and Brian's gospel leanings.  It's got to be him on piano.  Don't need to tell anyone here, he was rockin' from 1968-'72.  I like to say, "Rockin' from the Bedroom."

7.  Thinkin' Bout You Baby - Marilyn with Diane and Brian.  Subjective of course.  I like this version best.

8.  Forever - Marilyn with Diane and Carl.  This gets my top pick of the Beach Boy numbers.  For one, they got Carl to step in to help, and Rick's arrangement is inspired.  I hardly remember the Sunrays when living through the mid-sixties, and don't understand why he couldn't make it bigger.  I'll go off-thread and say the track he did on Murry's Moods record, Island In The Sky, was the best track on it.  And who knows why Won't You Tell Me wasn't developed (the one true best thing Mr. Wilson ever wrote).  Give it to The Lettermen, The Vogues, yes, The Association - they were still around and the demo does sound right for them, sh*t give it to the Bragati brothers - yes, that would be my first choice if I had the producers hat on.

9.  Good Time - Marilyn with Diane and the Beach Boys.  I have loved this from the first time I heard it.  All versions are great.  It's the same fun they are having on Everybody.

10. Tennessee Waltz -Marilyn with Diane and Brian.  Wilson plays Foster.  Sure that's what he was thinking.  He did a beautiful job on this, but here it's just another diamond amongst all the other riches on this project.  Have you heard his version of Goodnight Irene?  Reminds me of this.

11. This Whole World - Marilyn with Diane and David.  Not so much a mistake, as just one they couldn't have really thought through.

12. Superstar - Marilyn with Diane.  Diane should have been given another showcase.  The only song that drags.  Should not have been put after Sweet Mountain.  If this was a message to Brian, it didn't fit. Bonnie Bramlett wrote this for and with Leon Russell, and she sings it best.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

[Amy B.]

Wow, thanks for all the info, AGD and feelsflow.
I guess there might have been times when Marilyn went home and played a tape and Brian (otherwise uninterested) threw out a suggested and therefore got credit?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Stephen's name is the first credit on Sunflower, and probably the Steve on the back-note of Wild Honey... I need to do a bit more research.  

I'll say - that's Steve Korthof (Brian's cousin), not Steve Desper. The "and Arny" is something of a clue. SWD wasn't working for the BB in 1967.

Further caveat - just because someone gets a half or one-third credit on a track, doesn't mean they actually did contribute 50% or 33.33% of the arrangement, production or whatever.

[Custom Machine]

SWD wasn't working for the BB in 1967.

Actually he was.

[ontor pertawst]

Further caveat - just because someone gets a half or one-third credit on a track, doesn't mean they actually did contribute 50% or 33.33% of the arrangement, production or whatever.

Also known as The Mike Love Principle.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Further caveat - just because someone gets a half or one-third credit on a track, doesn't mean they actually did contribute 50% or 33.33% of the arrangement, production or whatever.

Also known as The Mike Love Principle.

More like The Spector Syndrome.

[Don Malcolm]

Excellent overview of the original Spring LP, feelsflow (will abbreviate to FF henceforth!). I'm in 100% agreement with your track evaluation and it's interesting to put that against Andrew's well-informed speculations about session chronology, etc.

Only one quibble here, re "Superstar": while I have mucho admiration for Bonnie Bramlett's version, someone (in this case me...) should stick up for Karen Carpenter's rendition, which transcends her brother's string-laden proclivities and (arguably) deserves to be considered the best vocal interpretation of the song. YMMV on that point, but we clearly agree that the Rovell sisters weren't really the right singers for this tune, no matter how much they (obviously) liked it.