How much of American Spring was Brian responsible for?

[Mr. Cohen]

There's some magic sprinkled on that album. I know that AGD made a post saying that Steven Desper said it was 5% Brian, while Marilyn Wilson estimated it was 25%. And yes, David Sadler did write most of the songwriting for "Sweet Mountain." I do think some of the other songs, like "Awake" (although Brian did record a piano demo that inspired part of the arrangements) or  "Mama Said", probably very little to no involvement from Brian. Oddly enough, the same can probably said of the renditions of Brian's old songs, too. Maybe Brian added a harmony or a part here or there, but that's it.

But what about "Tennessee Waltz", "Everybody", and "Down Home"? Those are covers, yes, but that's gotta be Brian doing most of the producing, right?  Compare the sound and feel on those songs than something like "Shyin' Away". There is no comparison. If you'll notice, there's even some fart bass now and then! Surely, Sandler wasn't the guy to bring that idea to the table. And the arrangement of "Sweet Mountain" definitely has some Brian hallmarks. Listen to those crazy echoes on Marilyn's voice in "Sweet Mountain"!

Also, what about something like "It's Like Heaven"? That sounds like Love You before it's time. This album doesn't get any attention, but in theoretical universe, "Sweet Mountain", "Tennessee Waltz", "Everybody", "Down Home", "It's Like Heaven", and "Had To Phone Ya", comes out of the gate kicking 15 Big Ones ass and with probably just as much Brian involvement (if not more).

[Wirestone]

I think the general feeling is that Brian was very involved at certain early points but still left Sandler to finish the whole thing. It's really one of the first projects where you have to play the "Brian produced what?" guessing game, which has continued through the Joe Thomas collaborations.

[Mikie]

I use to think that Brian was really involved with the Spring album. You can hear him sing on a couple of songs. There's even pictures of a session or two.

Unfortunately, Steve Desper has indicated that Brian wasn't involved with much of it at all. It was mostly Sandler and Diane and Marilyn.

There was a Spring promo session that Brian and Diane did together in the living room at 10452 Bellagio Rd. on October 9, 1971 that was recorded. Just lead vocals were completed; no instruments or background vocals were tracked as everyone else had gone to bed....

[Mr. Cohen]

Also, come on, let's have a discussion about how awkward "Tennessee Waltz" must've been to record? "Hey, Marilyn, I was thinking we could cover this song, because I'm not in love with your sister or anything so it doesn't really make me think of anything. Yep."

[Nicko1234]

One curious thing to me is the way that it seems (maybe I've imagined this) that since it became apparent that Brian had very limited involvement, praise for the album seems to have been tempered. Years ago I used to read the word 'masterpiece' a lot when people were discussing this disc but no so much any more.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Years ago I used to read the word 'masterpiece' a lot when people were discussing this disc but no so much any more.

Was it out of print at the time?

I really like it, but it's no masterpiece, apart from Sweet Mountain, which is up there with the best early 70s BB stuff, regardless of who really produced it

[runnersdialzero]

The "Brian Wilson Talks With And About Spring" recording for those who haven't heard it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNWbX2BbW78

[phirnis]

Didn't Brian say in a radio interview at the time that this is better than Pet Sounds?

Lovely record no matter who did what. (Don't think Brian was really involved with stuff like Awake or Superstar.) Reminds me of Friends and it's definitely a precursor to 15 Big Ones.

[Custom Machine]

Didn't Brian say in a radio interview at the time that this is better than Pet Sounds?

Lovely record no matter who did what. (Don't think Brian was really involved with stuff like Awake or Superstar.) Reminds me of Friends and it's definitely a precursor to 15 Big Ones.

When the Spring album was released Brian called Wolfman Jack, broadcasting on KDAY, Santa Monica, to plug it.  He sounded like a wide eyed little child, telling the Wolfman that his wife and sister-in-law had just released a new album entitled Spring, and he repeatedly stated, "It's better than Pet Sounds, Wolfman!"  I was driving in my car when Brian's call was broadcast, and although taken aback by Brian's vocal demeanor, at that time I figured it must have something to do with the fact that he was a musical genius. 

It probably isn't floating around anywhere, but 41 years later it would be great to hear tape of that rather brief conversation.

[astroray]

Love the record! Brian is responsible for making great music! It's got his fingerprints all over it!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Even if you allow the most generous assessment of Brian's contribution/involvement from someone who was not only a band member but also his wife at the time, three-quarters of Spring is the work of others. Hell, he contributed more to CATP-ST.

[MBE]

I think he was there (like AGD just said is the higher end) about 25 percent of the time as well after talking to Stephen, Marilyn, and David Sandler. They all do say one thing-when he was there he was very good and made the tracks better. I think it is the last time you can really hear Brian's classic style unfettered when he chose to work. Iowa  1973 he was more involved with for some reason.

[Andrew G. Doe]

When he made the 5% statement to me, SWD immediately qualified it by adding "of course, 5% of Brian Wilson is better than 100% of most everybody else".

[Mr. Cohen]

So, basically, do you all agree or disagree with me that the majority of the production and arrangement work on "Sweet Mountain", "Tennessee Waltz", "Everybody", "Down Home", "It's Like Heaven", and "Had To Phone Ya" sounds like Brian's work? To my ears, it sounds like he mostly sleepwalked through the rest of the album (aside from a few vocal arrangements), but those songs bear his sonic hallmark if you ask me.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Er... "It's Like Heaven" was recorded a good four, five years later.

[Mr. Cohen]

OK, fine, I know that. It's all on the album now, so I just lumped it in.

[MBE]

So, basically, do you all agree or disagree with me that the majority of the production and arrangement work on "Sweet Mountain", "Tennessee Waltz", "Everybody", "Down Home", "It's Like Heaven", and "Had To Phone Ya" sounds like Brian's work? To my ears, it sounds like he mostly sleepwalked through the rest of the album (aside from a few vocal arrangements), but those songs bear his sonic hallmark if you ask me.

No sleepwalking, just not a constant presence. Those are some of the more Brian centered recordings, but Down Home is much more Sandler. Brian's singing on Forever and again his work on the Iowa sessions was notable. Snowflakes, Fallin' In Love (45 mix only, since 1988 they have butchered it on LP and CD). "Shortening Bread" was the first very 1976 style Brian recordings.

[Bean Bag]

Love the record! Brian is responsible for making great music! It's got his fingerprints all over it!

This is my opinion too.

It sounds like Brian may have only physically popped his head in, here and there... but c'mon!!  This is the Beach Boys -- or the Beach Girls -- all the way, 100%.  I've always thought song selection was all Brian.  I mean it was his wife and sister-in-law!  So it was ALL his vibe.  Plus, the style and harmonizing is 100% Brian all the way... this is a lost BB album (runs for cover) as far as I'm concerned.  Always has been -- always will be.

And it's one of their best.

Who gives a crap if it's Brian's brothers and session men/women or Brian's wife and sister-in-law and session men/women?!  Brian Wilson probably had little or nothing to do with Getchya Back either... but it's the Beach Boys and it's Brian.  Spring is Brian Wilson.  It's the Beach Girls.  All the way.  I mean... listen to it!!  It just sounds like it.  It sounds like a Beach Boys record.  Trust your ears.

End of thread.

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

[shakes head sadly whilst making sympathetic clucking noises...]

[Loaf]

why does it matter so much to people how much "Brian" is in it?

If it's good music then it's good music, regardless of who was involved. Brian being involved to a greater or lesser extent doesn't change the music on your record one bit.

Personally, i love it. Couldn't care less how much Brian did what, as long as someone did it.

[shelter]

I don't really like this album and I certainly don't hear the old "Brian magic" here. 'This Whole World' and 'Forever' are two of my favorite Beach Boys songs, but on this album the first is completely ruined and the latter sounds just unimpressive.

[phirnis]

why does it matter so much to people how much "Brian" is in it?

If it's good music then it's good music, regardless of who was involved. Brian being involved to a greater or lesser extent doesn't change the music on your record one bit.

Personally, i love it. Couldn't care less how much Brian did what, as long as someone did it.

I love it as well but have to admit that I do care about who did what to a certain extent because it makes good music even more interesting. To me, Spring is essentially an album full of emulations of BW's then signature style with the man himself occasionally active and present, which is itself a very strange and therefore intriguing way of making a record.

I'd say it's probably the first record, chronologically, that makes you wonder what the tag 'Produced by Brian Wilson' might really mean from a certain point on.

[Loaf]

why does it matter so much to people how much "Brian" is in it?

If it's good music then it's good music, regardless of who was involved. Brian being involved to a greater or lesser extent doesn't change the music on your record one bit.

Personally, i love it. Couldn't care less how much Brian did what, as long as someone did it.

I love it as well but have to admit that I do care about who did what to a certain extent because it makes good music even more interesting. To me, Spring is essentially an album full of emulations of BW's then signature style with the man himself occasionally active and present, which is itself a very strange and therefore intriguing way of making a record.

I'd say it's probably the first record, chronologically, that makes you wonder what the tag 'Produced by Brian Wilson' might really mean from a certain point on.

Okay, perhaps I didn't express myself very well. I'm interested too, but I guess I meant more that it seems like some people won't like it if it turns out that a particular idea wasn't actually Brian's. It seems to me that some people are more concerned to verify that Brian was involved before they'll consider liking it (see the Out in the Country and Sweet & Bitter songs that appeared on youtube.).

[MBE]

Brian's participation is going to be spelled out in fairly good detail in my book. I am going to have it ready by mid July to resubmit.

[phirnis]

why does it matter so much to people how much "Brian" is in it?

If it's good music then it's good music, regardless of who was involved. Brian being involved to a greater or lesser extent doesn't change the music on your record one bit.

Personally, i love it. Couldn't care less how much Brian did what, as long as someone did it.

I love it as well but have to admit that I do care about who did what to a certain extent because it makes good music even more interesting. To me, Spring is essentially an album full of emulations of BW's then signature style with the man himself occasionally active and present, which is itself a very strange and therefore intriguing way of making a record.

I'd say it's probably the first record, chronologically, that makes you wonder what the tag 'Produced by Brian Wilson' might really mean from a certain point on.

Okay, perhaps I didn't express myself very well. I'm interested too, but I guess I meant more that it seems like some people won't like it if it turns out that a particular idea wasn't actually Brian's. It seems to me that some people are more concerned to verify that Brian was involved before they'll consider liking it (see the Out in the Country and Sweet & Bitter songs that appeared on youtube.).

Ah yes, I see! I used to be a bit like that as well during the first years of fandom.

Mike, really looking forward to reading it! Did you manage to talk to Brian himself about it and did he remember?