VDP: "victimised by Brian Wilson's buffoonery"

[Smilin Ed H]

Van Dyke is only known because of Brian Wilson.

I disagree. Van Dyke Parks carved out a niche all of his own. He contributed to so many artists' work, as an arranger, session player, en factotum (= he who does excellent work in all areas in a humble way). Just listen to his compilation Arrangements 1 and you will know what I mean.

He did many an excellent film score.

He acted in movies himself, from Heidi and The Swan (with Grace Kelly) to The Two Jakes (the successor to Chinatown, which is vastly underrated, it has a lot of irony and double entendres.

And his own body of work (I mean, as a solo artist) is absolutely unique, one-of-a-kind, and brilliant. Song Cycle, Discover America, Jump!, Tokyo Rose, Live At The Ash Grove, Songs Cycled, great stuff.

I think he could have been a very rich, very famous and very commercially oriented composer of movie soundtracks, like one John Williams, for instance. He surely has the capacities for that. But he's also a brave artist, who does what he thinks is best; he has a vocation, that rare characteristic that some artists who also possess it betray for their desire of cash money.

And he has the talent to air his views on society and politics in a gentle but unmistakeable way.

So, all of this led to VDP having had a very, very loyal and stable cult following. I had the pleasure to see him live three times, and would immediately go again, should he visit Holland in the future.

The man's a rara avis, metaphorically speaking - one we must treasure.

A treasure, yes. But he will always known first and foremost for his work on Smile, which, I suspect, occasionally irks him.

[carl r]

I interviewed VDP a while ago, I can't pretend to know him very well, but he has had hard times. He has poured so much of himself into his work for relatively little recompense, suffered for his art, and seen his most dear friends fall by the wayside. As a survivor of a cataclysmic late 60s scene, he has developed a certain degree of stubbornness on some questions and his interpretation of issues can be inflexible (a prerogative which he claims and which I would allow). He is one of those people, along with Robert Wyatt, who has developed a distinct authorial voice, even if his music since the 80s has smoothed over some of the most awkward and interesting experimental aspects of 'Song Cycle,' most of it is fantastic. Like Robert Wyatt, many of us look up to him and admire him, especially for his mistakes and mis-steps... someone who has given us far more than we should ever be able to repay.

[The Heartical Don]

Van Dyke is only known because of Brian Wilson.

I disagree. Van Dyke Parks carved out a niche all of his own. He contributed to so many artists' work, as an arranger, session player, en factotum (= he who does excellent work in all areas in a humble way). Just listen to his compilation Arrangements 1 and you will know what I mean.

He did many an excellent film score.

He acted in movies himself, from Heidi and The Swan (with Grace Kelly) to The Two Jakes (the successor to Chinatown, which is vastly underrated, it has a lot of irony and double entendres.

And his own body of work (I mean, as a solo artist) is absolutely unique, one-of-a-kind, and brilliant. Song Cycle, Discover America, Jump!, Tokyo Rose, Live At The Ash Grove, Songs Cycled, great stuff.

I think he could have been a very rich, very famous and very commercially oriented composer of movie soundtracks, like one John Williams, for instance. He surely has the capacities for that. But he's also a brave artist, who does what he thinks is best; he has a vocation, that rare characteristic that some artists who also possess it betray for their desire of cash money.

And he has the talent to air his views on society and politics in a gentle but unmistakeable way.

So, all of this led to VDP having had a very, very loyal and stable cult following. I had the pleasure to see him live three times, and would immediately go again, should he visit Holland in the future.

The man's a rara avis, metaphorically speaking - one we must treasure.

A treasure, yes. But he will always known first and foremost for his work on Smile, which, I suspect, occasionally irks him.

That may be the case (about Smile). I come from that position of the VDP devotee, I am part of the loyal followers who have all his albums, so I really can't put myself into the position of a BBs nutter who isn't into VDP in any significant way. Two different worlds, in other words.

That his being predominantly known for his participation in Smile irks him occasionally, that's totally believable IMHO. I would be too, if I'd devoted my working life to composing, arranging, singing, playing, and presenting (in a live setting) such a beautiful body of work, and then see my own name in the media almost always in the context of Smile, and occurring in phrases such as: 'the man who was BWs songwriting partner for the epic and mythical Smile opus'; because that period meant, in terms of time devoted to it, only a tiny fragment of that working life.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think, considering that we're here on a message board entitled SmileySmile.net with 10000 + endless threads devoted to that moment in 1967 when he was asked what some lyrics meant: yes, from this vantage point, (or low visibility angle) VDP is indeed mostly know for SMILE.

I think I'll pull out "Clang Of The Yankee Reaper" and give it a spin ..... It always hits the spot

[CenturyDeprived]

I disagree. Van Dyke Parks carved out a niche all of his own. He contributed to so many artists' work, as an arranger, session player, en factotum (= he who does excellent work in all areas in a humble way). Just listen to his compilation Arrangements 1 and you will know what I mean.

He did many an excellent film score.

He acted in movies himself, from Heidi and The Swan (with Grace Kelly) to The Two Jakes (the successor to Chinatown, which is vastly underrated, it has a lot of irony and double entendres.

And his own body of work (I mean, as a solo artist) is absolutely unique, one-of-a-kind, and brilliant. Song Cycle, Discover America, Jump!, Tokyo Rose, Live At The Ash Grove, Songs Cycled, great stuff.

I think he could have been a very rich, very famous and very commercially oriented composer of movie soundtracks, like one John Williams, for instance. He surely has the capacities for that. But he's also a brave artist, who does what he thinks is best; he has a vocation, that rare characteristic that some artists who also possess it betray for their desire of cash money.

And he has the talent to air his views on society and politics in a gentle but unmistakeable way.

So, all of this led to VDP having had a very, very loyal and stable cult following. I had the pleasure to see him live three times, and would immediately go again, should he visit Holland in the future.

The man's a rara avis, metaphorically speaking - one we must treasure.

But he decided he wanted to play on Summer in Paradise instead. 

But at least he played on "Lahaina Aloha", probably the best track on the album And he adds quite a bit to the coolness of that track too.

[Nicko1234]

I disagree. Van Dyke Parks carved out a niche all of his own. He contributed to so many artists' work, as an arranger, session player, en factotum (= he who does excellent work in all areas in a humble way). Just listen to his compilation Arrangements 1 and you will know what I mean.

He did many an excellent film score.

He acted in movies himself, from Heidi and The Swan (with Grace Kelly) to The Two Jakes (the successor to Chinatown, which is vastly underrated, it has a lot of irony and double entendres.

And his own body of work (I mean, as a solo artist) is absolutely unique, one-of-a-kind, and brilliant. Song Cycle, Discover America, Jump!, Tokyo Rose, Live At The Ash Grove, Songs Cycled, great stuff.

I think he could have been a very rich, very famous and very commercially oriented composer of movie soundtracks, like one John Williams, for instance. He surely has the capacities for that. But he's also a brave artist, who does what he thinks is best; he has a vocation, that rare characteristic that some artists who also possess it betray for their desire of cash money.

And he has the talent to air his views on society and politics in a gentle but unmistakeable way.

So, all of this led to VDP having had a very, very loyal and stable cult following. I had the pleasure to see him live three times, and would immediately go again, should he visit Holland in the future.

The man's a rara avis, metaphorically speaking - one we must treasure.

But he decided he wanted to play on Summer in Paradise instead. 

But at least he played on "Lahaina Aloha", probably the best track on the album And he adds quite a bit to the coolness of that track too.

It absolutely is the best track and of course he played on Kokomo too. 

I`m not sure whether John Williams was on either of these recordings (apologies to The Heartical Don for my nonsense  )

[The Heartical Don]

 

Heh - yes, John Williams' spirit is firmly hovering all over the magical work of art that is Summer In Paradise.

Nowadays people laugh at that record, but believe me: in a century, when the earth will have warmed up to a cosy 50 degrees Celsius everywhere, the 20 billion inhabitants of it will be partying like hell with SiP as the soundtrack.

[Smile4ever]

I understand VDP is only recognized on this board for Smile. But let's be serious, he's not known anywhere in the entire mainstream world for anything but Smile. The only reason that most people even know about his other work is through learning about him via Smile, not from another project. I know that's definitely the case for most of you.

I'll take it a step further. Van Dyke Parks is a relic of the 1960s. He fully immersed himself in the supposed "revolution" of the late 60s and consequently isn't relevant anymore. Because the alleged revolution was a fad. That's one reason why a project like Smile, which is a timeless piece of art, is what he is most known for.

I understand his frustrations with Smile. But I don't know why he needs to slam Brian Wilson at this point in time. Wilson basically revived VDP's career/fame by releasing Smile in two forms over the past 10 years (and offered him a co-writing job for the 2004 project). I agree that Brian Wilson was out of control during that 1966-67 time period (like many other periods). But there's no need to drudge up this kind of negative commentary now. It's old news and seems unnecessarily bitter and vicious.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I agree ^

[guitarfool2002]

Simple question: If Van Dyke were not working with Brian in 1966, would he have been offered a deal to record a solo album and sign the deal in January 1967?

Some are taking the notion of connecting Van Dyke to Smile as a form of name recognition or whatever is/was a bad thing, and if you read more of Van Dyke's interviews through the years even *he* credits the Brian/Smile association with opening doors in the music business that he perhaps would not have been offered.

And being associated with something that passes into legend can be a burden as those associates try to carve out their own identity, but at what point is that kind of burden especially for a musician a bad thing?

It's not like we're talking about Gary Coleman or McCauley Culkin or any number of young actors who get typecast to the detriment of being "taken seriously" for their acting talent as adults and become novelties...Smile was great for Van Dyke and took him from a behind-the-scenes (often uncredited) utility man and put his name out there as a solo artist at a relatively young age and not having an overtly commercial image or sound.

Though he may word it differently I think he has expressed a level of gratitude through the years for what his work on Smile led to his doing in the music business.

[Smile4ever]

Exactly.

[Dancing Bear]

Smile opened a lot of doors for Van Dyke, but it must be said that he took the ball and ran with it. In the movie soundtracks' circuit I think he would have made a name anyway, and I'm suspicious those movie guys don't care about the Smile legend at all.

[clack]

Smile opened a lot of doors for Van Dyke, but it must be said that he took the ball and ran with it. In the movie soundtracks' circuit I think he would have made a name anyway, and I'm suspicious those movie guys don't care about the Smile legend at all.

I watched a roundtable featuring the current top crop of movie composers. One of the younger participants mentioned 'Pet Sounds', and was replied to with reverent noises and nods by the others. So I don't know about the directors or the producers, but I suspect the composers would know the SMiLE legend at least, if not the actual music.

[Dancing Bear]

Smile opened a lot of doors for Van Dyke, but it must be said that he took the ball and ran with it. In the movie soundtracks' circuit I think he would have made a name anyway, and I'm suspicious those movie guys don't care about the Smile legend at all.

I watched a roundtable featuring the current top crop of movie composers. One of the younger participants mentioned 'Pet Sounds', and was replied to with reverent noises and nods by the others. So I don't know about the directors or the producers, but I suspect the composers would know the SMiLE legend at least, if not the actual music.

I was thinking about the directors and producers.

[Robbie Mac]

I understand VDP is only recognized on this board for Smile. But let's be serious, he's not known anywhere in the entire mainstream world for anything but Smile. The only reason that most people even know about his other work is through learning about him via Smile, not from another project. I know that's definitely the case for most of you.

I'll take it a step further. Van Dyke Parks is a relic of the 1960s. He fully immersed himself in the supposed "revolution" of the late 60s and consequently isn't relevant anymore. Because the alleged revolution was a fad. That's one reason why a project like Smile, which is a timeless piece of art, is what he is most known for.

I understand his frustrations with Smile. But I don't know why he needs to slam Brian Wilson at this point in time. Wilson basically revived VDP's career/fame by releasing Smile in two forms over the past 10 years (and offered him a co-writing job for the 2004 project). I agree that Brian Wilson was out of control during that 1966-67 time period (like many other periods). But there's no need to drudge up this kind of negative commentary now. It's old news and seems unnecessarily bitter and vicious.

A supposed revolution  that led to sweeping social and political change. Yep! The 60's  were simply a "fad" weren't they?

[Smile4ever]

I understand VDP is only recognized on this board for Smile. But let's be serious, he's not known anywhere in the entire mainstream world for anything but Smile. The only reason that most people even know about his other work is through learning about him via Smile, not from another project. I know that's definitely the case for most of you.

I'll take it a step further. Van Dyke Parks is a relic of the 1960s. He fully immersed himself in the supposed "revolution" of the late 60s and consequently isn't relevant anymore. Because the alleged revolution was a fad. That's one reason why a project like Smile, which is a timeless piece of art, is what he is most known for.

I understand his frustrations with Smile. But I don't know why he needs to slam Brian Wilson at this point in time. Wilson basically revived VDP's career/fame by releasing Smile in two forms over the past 10 years (and offered him a co-writing job for the 2004 project). I agree that Brian Wilson was out of control during that 1966-67 time period (like many other periods). But there's no need to drudge up this kind of negative commentary now. It's old news and seems unnecessarily bitter and vicious.

A supposed revolution  that led to sweeping social and political change. Yep! The 60's  were simply a "fad" weren't they?

The aspect of the 60s Van Dyke was involved in was a fad.

[Cam Mott]

OK, wedding activities over.

So VDP is indicating that the lyric incident was early.

What about the reports from Siegel, and Vosse, and Anderle? We give a lot of importance to these guy's opinions in regards to the Boys and their effect on SMiLE. What about the problems they report between VDP and Brian? Vosse and especially Anderle seem to feel it was a central problem with SMiLE's release. Like Billy said it seems like a pretty big thing. I mean it seems like, if anything is, this is the big thing like Anderle said.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

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I was really excited this old conversation got bumped. And then I saw this Crap. What the hell, man? What. The. Hell?

[The Dumb Angel]

It's a spambot. No reason to respond to it. I'm sure everything will be taken care of soon.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, he/she/it has been banned.

I too was surprised to see this thread get bumped. I was all like, 'Great...what did Parks say NOW'

[KittyKat]

He reposted two very old photos of Winona Ryder that were originally posted on Pinterest. He must be running out of things to say on Twitter. I somehow never pegged him for the Winona Ryder type.  Or Pinterest, for that matter.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I had a bit of a  crush on Winona Ryder since the early 90s until I got married...he didn't diss her, did he?

[KittyKat]

I had a bit of a  crush on Winona Ryder since the early 90s until I got married...he didn't diss her, did he?

Oh, no. He just linked to a couple of pictures of her, one from "Heathers." I would take it as a sign that he likes her. It just seemed a little odd, that's all. I know he's mentioned his big female movie star crushes as being Sophia Loren and Grace Kelly (he worked with the last one when he was a kid). Somehow, Winona doesn't seem like she fits in with that group.