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Author Topic: VDP: "victimised by Brian Wilson's buffoonery"  (Read 85940 times)
leggo of my ego
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« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2013, 06:48:26 AM »

Warners had these "Loss Leaders" compliation LPs in the 1970s.

Thats where I first heard the genius of VDP as a cut from Song Cycle was on the "Songbook" LP
Althought the vocals were not my cup of tea the track was like nothing I had ever heard.

I had no idea VDP had worked with the BB, or what "Smile" even was.
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« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2013, 10:11:55 AM »

Van Dyke is the new Mike Love.
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« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2013, 10:43:40 AM »

Van Dyke is awesome, in general.

But something happened between him and Brian recently. The TLOS stuff didn't go well, for one thing -- he really had expected to write with BW, and instead was just kind of thrown in there for name alone. A little exploitative.

And the real rupture happened with the boxed set. Something went really wrong there -- no essay from him, and he hasn't had many positive words for Brian or the material since the box was released. I'm not surprised. He also seems to really think that Brian was goaded into the reunion.

Exactly! Thanks for bringing that up. There is an interview in a Spanish newspaper, after TLOS... This was before VDP going to Spain, I believe. I wish I could find it... He says something like: "I was expecting that this collaboration would mean meeting an old friend but instead...". So yeah, something occured during that time. Perhaps it had to do with BW not using VDP's lyrics for Live let Live?
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« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2013, 10:43:56 AM »

Much as I enjoy VDP, I would bet that there's a difference between his 'work place personae' and the glib $10-a-word pontificator. His interviews to me read a lot like Tom Waits interviews - the world's a stage and VDP plays the part of Samuel Clemens incarnate. When the mike is on, it's showtime. And that's good copy.

That being said, it's somewhat refreshing to read another angle on the whole Smile saga. I don't blame him for being touchy on all things Smile...it's both an albatross and a blessing to Van Dyke.

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« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2013, 11:42:29 AM »

Van Dyke's comments are pretty inoffensive. I really don't think they show any malice towards Brian.
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leggo of my ego
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« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2013, 11:44:30 AM »

Van Dyke is the new Mike Love.

Oh come, VDP is the old Mike Love -- youre just now finding out. The new Mike Love hasnt been reincarnated yet.
/s
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« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2013, 11:46:38 AM »

Van Dyke's comments are pretty inoffensive. I really don't think they show any malice towards Brian.

So if somebody you worked with in the past said they feel "victimised by your buffoonery", you wouldn't feel that's an offensive comment
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« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2013, 11:50:22 AM »

I wonder how Boris Johnson would react to such a comment.
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« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2013, 11:51:26 AM »

Van Dyke's comments are Petty & Offensive.

There I fixed your post.

Death to Mikes Beard says the Van Dykester is running that galloot Myke outta town.
This is the general sentiment on the board, why fight it?

Lets post a $100,000 reward for VDP as he is become Public Enemy #1.
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leggo of my ego
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« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2013, 11:54:47 AM »

Van Dyke's comments are pretty inoffensive. I really don't think they show any malice towards Brian.

So if somebody you worked with in the past said they feel "victimised by your buffoonery", you wouldn't feel that's an offensive comment

Not me.

I'd say they were one of those English blokes that spell funny.  Wink


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« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2013, 11:55:24 AM »

Look, Smile is pretty much my favourite music of all time but I'm not going to stand here and claim that Brian Wilson holding 'parties' in the recording studio where everyone goes apeshit at each other, recording Illinois cabbies to put on the album and throwing a ball around the studio is NORMAL.
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« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2013, 11:59:43 AM »

Look, Smile is pretty much my favourite music of all time but I'm not going to stand here and claim that Brian Wilson holding 'parties' in the recording studio where everyone goes apeshit at each other, recording Illinois cabbies to put on the album and throwing a ball around the studio is NORMAL.

It was the times. LA in the 60's. People way too young with too much money and power

I was watching a Harry Nilsson doc the other night, a man just as crazy or more so so than Brian and Van Dyke was rightfully singing Harry's praises.

Is Van Dyke suddenly opposed to the madness that was the 60's music scene in America or is he suddenly just bitter that things didn't work out how he would have liked.
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« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2013, 12:03:35 PM »

Van Dyke's comments are pretty inoffensive. I really don't think they show any malice towards Brian.

So if somebody you worked with in the past said they feel "victimised by your buffoonery", you wouldn't feel that's an offensive comment
It's all about context and no I wouldn't be offended. Brian and Van Dyke are friends. My friends and I say much worse things about each other if you were to observe them outside of the context of that relationship. You may well be mistaking the tone of the comment.
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« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2013, 12:06:46 PM »

Look, Smile is pretty much my favourite music of all time but I'm not going to stand here and claim that Brian Wilson holding 'parties' in the recording studio where everyone goes apeshit at each other, recording Illinois cabbies to put on the album and throwing a ball around the studio is NORMAL.

It was the times. LA in the 60's. People way too young with too much money and power

I was watching a Harry Nielson doc the other night, a man just as crazy or more so so than Brian and Van Dyke was rightfully singing Harry's praises.

Is Van Dyke suddenly opposed to the madness that was the 60's music scene in America or is he suddenly just bitter that things didn't work out how he would have liked.

Van Dyke was first and foremost a session player - turn up, play what was expected and most importantly finish on time and on budget. Watching Brian become increasingly bizzarre and self indulgent must have turned his stomach after a while.
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« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2013, 12:15:11 PM »

As far as being bitter.
A. He seems to not understand Brian's problems.
B. If Brian and The Beach Boys hadn't recorded his songs, he would be known by maybe 20 percent of the people who know him today.

Make that 2 percent!

Make that 'shut up, he's a legend in his own right'



That kind of sh*t reminds of the teen articles reprinted in the Priore book. Childish tit for tat nonsense, and you only get to play in this minor, off the cuff grouching if your name is Brian Wilson or Van Dyke Parks.

BTW At this point in time, I'm many, many times more excited to listen to new VDP material than I was by TWGMTR. They should have got him to produce their record! Would have still got to no.3, probably would have been significantly less sh*t.

What's so bad about 2 percent? Of course that number is arbitrary, i.e. I totally pulled it out of my ass, but it doesn't seem like an unrealistic guess to me. I don't think you  really help your case by opening your post with telling someone they should shut up either. That's just bad form. By the way, I like your screen name, BergenWhitesMoustache. Have a good one!
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« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2013, 12:28:37 PM »

Van Dyke has a right to his opinion. I thinking if I thought I was going to create this magnum opus with this genius who cranked out PS and I got there and he wants us to pretend he's stuck in a microphone or a piano and we are going to bang on a key and knock him out of the piano and a lot of our stuff I found odd and unprofessional: I might characterize it as buffoonery
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« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2013, 12:33:42 PM »

The buffoonery was situations like David Anderle who had been literally busting his ass setting up a record label and corporate identity for Brian and the 'Boys, in the process not only stepping on some well-connected third rails of the record business that a man in his 20's just didn't take on and burning multiple industry-centric bridges in the process...because he among a select few including Mr. Parks himself saw something special in what was going on in that scene...

...only to have Brian refuse to come out of his bedroom when some business, what i assume would have been important business, needed to be addressed.

The reasons for that kind of thing straddle the line between mythology and reality, but it's just one very small piece in a large puzzle which we simply *will never* have all the pieces necessary to complete.

This interview is what it is, and remember Van Dyke like all entertainers is also concerned with publicity, PR, and spreading the word about his work so people buy it. Period. Just like everyone else.

And this interview looks like an artist who seems to be pushing aside his previous identity as collaborator in order to enhance his identity as a well-regarded artist still working and putting out product. He wants to enhance Van Dyke Parks at this point more than the Van-Brian connection, which is fine.

As far as Skrillex, as soon as dubstep runs out of both steam and fresh ideas, he can live off the money he's making now on a hot trend and retire on his investments. Because unlike some styles, you cannot button up an entire genre of music into a handful of sonic gimmicks and expect it to last beyond the length of the trend itself.

So if Van Dyke wishes to make his association with a young artist like Skrillex more a part of his musical identity in this very moment, more power to him, that's the nature of the music biz beast..."what have you done lately?" versus 45 years ago.

Give us the full recording of the interview, we'll talk.
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« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2013, 12:34:41 PM »

.

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« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2013, 12:41:05 PM »

Van Dyke has a right to his opinion. I thinking if I thought I was going to create this magnum opus with this genius who cranked out PS and I got there and he wants us to pretend he's stuck in a microphone or a piano and we are going to bang on a key and knock him out of the piano and a lot of our stuff I found odd and unprofessional: I might characterize it as buffoonery

This kind of thing happens in a lot of studio sessions where you don't have hired gun session musicians on the clock collecting overtime if they go one minute past the clock. The Beatles regularly did things like this, and people laud them for it. Yellow Submarine: Mal Evans walking around the studio room with a bass drum strapped on his chest, being followed by a cadre of various Rolling Stones, their women, and other guests to that party. And that record became a classic. A Day In The Life: Balloons, rubber noses, monkey paws, masks, fake Groucho moustaches...on a room full of world-class musicians who normally attended recording sessions in full evening dress and tuxedos. A Day In The Life...continually at the top of the "best of all time" polls. "If I Can Dream", Elvis stripped down to the waist, being given a handheld microphone, and doing full-on stage moves and knee drops as he's all but writhing around the studio to deliver that amazing vocal.

The times had in fact changed in 1965-66-67, and such events as described above led to three records that are unarguable, undisputed, all-time classic studio recordings.

Yet some musicians would consider those events which went into the sessions "buffoonery".

To each his own.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
halblaineisgood
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« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2013, 12:50:08 PM »

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« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2013, 12:58:48 PM »

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Jim V.
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« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2013, 01:17:17 PM »

Hypehat, we should encourage non convention in people.

We *should* encourage people to behave unconventionally. And not, for example, call them "pseudo-intellectual" or say "his common vocabulary seems stuffed with ten dollar words where he could probably just as easily talk like the rest of us" or "this is about as pretentious as it gets" when they dare to attempt to express themselves precisely and in an aesthetically pleasing manner.

I see what I said got stuck in your craw. Well, I actually agree that people should be unconventional. But they can also be conventional. They should be themselves. I think Brian Wilson is quite an unconventional guy, but he doesn't come off as calculated as Van Dyke. He's a genuinely odd guy. Harry Nilsson seemed like a genuinely odd guy too. But not Van Dyke. He seems like a guy that looks down his nose at others because they aren't as "smart". At least it feels that way in Brian's case. However, I do think overall that he is a good man. But it is a shame he had to attack Mike Eder.
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« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2013, 01:23:27 PM »

Van Dyke is awesome, in general.

But something happened between him and Brian recently. The TLOS stuff didn't go well, for one thing -- he really had expected to write with BW, and instead was just kind of thrown in there for name alone. A little exploitative.

And the real rupture happened with the boxed set. Something went really wrong there -- no essay from him, and he hasn't had many positive words for Brian or the material since the box was released. I'm not surprised. He also seems to really think that Brian was goaded into the reunion.

Exactly! Thanks for bringing that up. There is an interview in a Spanish newspaper, after TLOS... This was before VDP going to Spain, I believe. I wish I could find it... He says something like: "I was expecting that this collaboration would mean meeting an old friend but instead...". So yeah, something occured during that time. Perhaps it had to do with BW not using VDP's lyrics for Live let Live?

Van Dyke's lyrics were used. He wrote two different sets of lyrics, one for the "Arctic Tale" movie and one for TLOS. I emailed him about it at the time, and that's what he told me.
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« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2013, 01:26:59 PM »

They should be themselves. I think Brian Wilson is quite an unconventional guy, but he doesn't come off as calculated as Van Dyke. He's a genuinely odd guy. Harry Nilsson seemed like a genuinely odd guy too. But not Van Dyke. He seems like a guy that looks down his nose at others because they aren't as "smart".

And you base that on what, exactly?
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« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2013, 01:35:15 PM »

And you base that on what, exactly?

Him talking about The Beach Boys as if they were a bunch of dumb hicks?
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