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Author Topic: Mike's leadership of the band  (Read 59827 times)
Forrest Gump
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« Reply #150 on: May 14, 2013, 12:54:35 PM »

How's that?

Obvious Carl's drive and business are discribing the same thing.

When Carl talks about others stepping up he was talking about setlists....not the same as leadership.

And before Carl talks about the dive and business he says two words----"that's right". Carl was no dummy..anyone can read he was agreeing with the interviewer's question.

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oldsurferdude
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« Reply #151 on: May 14, 2013, 12:55:21 PM »

Not a smoking gun at all.

It's also funny how Mike being "drive drive drive' all the time turned into "business business business" by us posters..... Carl also said that each of them steps up to the reigns from time to time... I still insist if Carl or Al or Brian or anyone else wanted to stand their groun against the evil Mike wall of death, they could have managed to get their way.
Well gosh, or golly or even jeez, mYke might have quit and, well, they woulda lost their frontmahn.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #152 on: May 14, 2013, 01:14:28 PM »

Not a smoking gun at all.

It's also funny how Mike being "drive drive drive' all the time turned into "business business business" by us posters..... Carl also said that each of them steps up to the reigns from time to time... I still insist if Carl or Al or Brian or anyone else wanted to stand their groun against the evil Mike wall of death, they could have managed to get their way.
Al was suspended and kicked out for being a problem with Mike in the 1990s.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #153 on: May 14, 2013, 01:19:15 PM »

Not a smoking gun at all.

It's also funny how Mike being "drive drive drive' all the time turned into "business business business" by us posters..... Carl also said that each of them steps up to the reigns from time to time... I still insist if Carl or Al or Brian or anyone else wanted to stand their groun against the evil Mike wall of death, they could have managed to get their way.
Well, any leader only leads at the sufferance of those he leads. Sure, if Carl or Al or Brian had banded together they could have deposed Mike as leader, doesn't mean that Mike is not the leader in the meanwhile.
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #154 on: May 14, 2013, 02:10:39 PM »

Then, like I've said before, the other guys are just as much to blame for whatever the hell as Mike is.
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oldsurferdude
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« Reply #155 on: May 14, 2013, 02:20:01 PM »

Hey! Just thought about this-will Brian, Al and David  have a "frontman"? There's no way they can do it right w/o one, right?? LOL
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 02:21:40 PM by oldsurferdude » Logged
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #156 on: May 14, 2013, 02:24:13 PM »

Sure they can, but we'll miss Mike's voice on lots of songs just like we miss Brian's (er, Jeff's) and The Bruce Boys shows.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #157 on: May 14, 2013, 02:51:19 PM »

How's that?

Obvious Carl's drive and business are discribing the same thing.

When Carl talks about others stepping up he was talking about setlists....not the same as leadership.

And before Carl talks about the dive and business he says two words----"that's right". Carl was no dummy..anyone can read he was agreeing with the interviewer's question.



Carl is agreeing with the interviewer about the sort of seeming leadership of Mike and confirming it. I don't see Carl equating drive and business. In the context of leadership in 1989 Mike has drive and loves business and was excited by the success of Kokomo.

I take it he means the setlists too in that interview. But the rest of the group had taken leadership in the recordings and touring at various times before and after 1989.
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« Reply #158 on: May 14, 2013, 02:53:07 PM »

Then, like I've said before, the other guys are just as much to blame for whatever the hell as Mike is.
Well, I like SC and SIP more than Carl's away-from-the-Beach-Boys stuff. Carl's melodies were wan and his arrangements generic MOR pablum. At least Mike and Terry came up with some catchy vocal riffs.

So, 1) Mike was the leader post BB'85, and 2) did a better job at than Carl or Al could have done. Better, but not good enough.
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runnersdialzero
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« Reply #159 on: May 14, 2013, 03:23:22 PM »

Also, thanks for posting bgas and Steve ^_^

Hope there aren't any typos etc. up there, I did it pretty quickly but wanted to... erm, digitize it.

you did a good job. top line reads:
Carl Wilson interview/ May Fair Hotel, London, Sept. 8, 1989

here is the rest of the missing parts....

lk: what about dennis?
cw: oh god- dennis...that was a big blow, it put us all in a strange place.
lk: did the group consider breaking up after his death?
cw: no, it brought us all closer together. with dennis there were some really difficult times. but, he was a great guy with a big heart.

plus line six..it should say "a new caribou compilation" not capitol.

Thanks Smiley
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oldsurferdude
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« Reply #160 on: May 14, 2013, 06:07:44 PM »

Sure they can, but we'll miss Mike's voice on lots of songs just like we miss Brian's (er, Jeff's) and The Bruce Boys shows.
No we won't miss anything that smacks of mYke-and, there will be no cornfed humor, gold rings, pointing, horrible, warmed over nasal bleatings or well known ego issues.
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runnersdialzero
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« Reply #161 on: May 14, 2013, 06:15:27 PM »

Sure they can, but we'll miss Mike's voice on lots of songs just like we miss Brian's (er, Jeff's) and The Bruce Boys shows.
No we won't miss anything that smacks of mYke-and, there will be no cornfed humor, gold rings, pointing, horrible, warmed over nasal bleatings or well known ego issues.

o okay
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« Reply #162 on: May 14, 2013, 07:51:17 PM »

wow, Pet Sounds wasn't available in the states around the time of that interview.

Did Landy really want a producer credit on Pet Sounds or did I read that wrong?
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« Reply #163 on: May 15, 2013, 07:16:07 AM »

Landy has some kind of producer credit on the first copy of PS of my household.
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« Reply #164 on: May 15, 2013, 07:33:58 AM »

Landy has some kind of producer credit on the first copy of PS of my household.

what a criminal bastard. I have mixed feelings of appreciation for him for saving Brian's life and utter contempt for him pulling all his illicit sh*t and abusing his relationship with his patient.
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« Reply #165 on: May 15, 2013, 07:47:31 AM »

Landy has some kind of producer credit on the first copy of PS of my household.

what a criminal bastard. I have mixed feelings of appreciation for him for saving Brian's life and utter contempt for him pulling all his illicit sh*t and abusing his relationship with his patient.

I think any doctor could have done the former, given the levels of control over Brian's life Landy was given. Very few would have stooped to the latter.
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« Reply #166 on: May 15, 2013, 11:59:45 AM »

I can't get a grasp on what Landy could have been thinking wanting a producer credit on Pet Sounds. I just... how.
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« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2013, 12:37:30 PM »


I think any doctor could have done the former, given the levels of control over Brian's life Landy was given. Very few would have stooped to the latter.

I'm not sure about 'any doctor'.

Al has said that they all knew about Landy's personality and that he had to be dragged out of meetings when it was suggesting that they should re-employ him. But that Carl had run out of other options.
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« Reply #168 on: May 15, 2013, 12:47:33 PM »


I think any doctor could have done the former, given the levels of control over Brian's life Landy was given. Very few would have stooped to the latter.

I'm not sure about 'any doctor'.

Al has said that they all knew about Landy's personality and that he had to be dragged out of meetings when it was suggesting that they should re-employ him. But that Carl had run out of other options.

Not just ANY doctor, but then, Landy obviously played "hard to get" to be certain he got what he wanted the second time around. 
Worked, didn't it! 
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« Reply #169 on: May 15, 2013, 12:55:23 PM »

The treatment of Brian was complex because he had gotten quite heavy and was polyaddicted. There was no conventional treatment program in 1983 Mental Health or Chemical Dependence Treatment that would have been able to help him. His resistance to change was extreme.In this sense, had Landy done 3 to 4 years of milieu therapy with him, and then continued on an outpatient basis afterward, we would be lionizing him as a genius instead of vilifying him. Chemical Dependence and Mental Health Inpatient Treatment was in its infancy them. A treatment theory grounding practice in a model for MH/CD treatment did not emerege until the mid 80s. I think the family did what they could do, but who knows? There were few if any MH/CD professionals doing long-term milieu therapy at the time Brian so desperately needed it.
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« Reply #170 on: May 15, 2013, 01:00:22 PM »

and we have you peter to thank also in saving his life..................
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« Reply #171 on: May 15, 2013, 03:44:18 PM »

The treatment of Brian was complex because he had gotten quite heavy and was polyaddicted. There was no conventional treatment program in 1983 Mental Health or Chemical Dependence Treatment that would have been able to help him. His resistance to change was extreme.In this sense, had Landy done 3 to 4 years of milieu therapy with him, and then continued on an outpatient basis afterward, we would be lionizing him as a genius instead of vilifying him. Chemical Dependence and Mental Health Inpatient Treatment was in its infancy them. A treatment theory grounding practice in a model for MH/CD treatment did not emerege until the mid 80s. I think the family did what they could do, but who knows? There were few if any MH/CD professionals doing long-term milieu therapy at the time Brian so desperately needed it.

Thanks for the insight, Peter! I don't have the experience to really look at Brian's treatments from a professional standpoint, which does bug me as obviously it's a huge factor.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 03:51:51 PM by hypehat » Logged

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« Reply #172 on: May 15, 2013, 03:46:42 PM »

The treatment of Brian was complex because he had gotten quite heavy and was polyaddicted. There was no conventional treatment program in 1983 Mental Health or Chemical Dependence Treatment that would have been able to help him. His resistance to change was extreme.In this sense, had Landy done 3 to 4 years of milieu therapy with him, and then continued on an outpatient basis afterward, we would be lionizing him as a genius instead of vilifying him. Chemical Dependence and Mental Health Inpatient Treatment was in its infancy them. A treatment theory grounding practice in a model for MH/CD treatment did not emerege until the mid 80s. I think the family did what they could do, but who knows? There were few if any MH/CD professionals doing long-term milieu therapy at the time Brian so desperately needed it.

A very interesting post.
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« Reply #173 on: May 15, 2013, 04:44:01 PM »

The treatment of Brian was complex because he had gotten quite heavy and was polyaddicted. There was no conventional treatment program in 1983 Mental Health or Chemical Dependence Treatment that would have been able to help him. His resistance to change was extreme.In this sense, had Landy done 3 to 4 years of milieu therapy with him, and then continued on an outpatient basis afterward, we would be lionizing him as a genius instead of vilifying him. Chemical Dependence and Mental Health Inpatient Treatment was in its infancy them. A treatment theory grounding practice in a model for MH/CD treatment did not emerege until the mid 80s. I think the family did what they could do, but who knows? There were few if any MH/CD professionals doing long-term milieu therapy at the time Brian so desperately needed it.

So do you think Brian would have died if not for Landy treating him?

Ive pondered the question before.
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« Reply #174 on: May 15, 2013, 05:15:39 PM »

If the alternative is 'Brian received no treatment at all', then yes - Brian would have killed himself with drink, coke, and pills. Like Hendrix or Janis, it would have been that one dose too many.

If you meant 'could someone else have treated Brian', I'd like to think someone else could - Peters post implies that those someone elses were rare in the 80's. What colours Landy's treatment is its totality. No other shrink on earth would have demanded writing credits.
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All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?

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Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
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