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Author Topic: Mike's leadership of the band  (Read 39871 times)
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« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2013, 11:18:54 AM »

Cam, by the '80s, I think Carl and Mike were both running the show, but in two very different ways:  Carl was the "musical leader" and Mike was the "business" leader.  I think they both recognized that and stayed out of each others' ways.
It's clear from Mike's 1992 Goldmine interview that he believed the way to go was with "commercial"-sounding songs in the great hit-making "formula" tradition of the Beach Boys.   

Craig, that I can see that. So Mike wasn't in charge of the music except for SIP I take it [between 1973 and 1997]. I've heard that the songs for the setlists were sort picked democratically by the group under Carl's supervision and that Mike sort of set the order of the voted in songs. Do you or anyone know anything about that?



I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Also, Carl was the most skeptical about the boxed-set tour. So maybe he was outvoted on that.

And let us not forget that Carl may have had other priorities... Like fightinh for his brother's freedom and health; and dealing with the horrible treatment he got in the WIBN book. I bet those things, at that stage in life and career meant a lot more than pushing his songs on a BB release.
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« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2013, 11:33:44 AM »

I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Unbelievable that Mike was against "Sail On, Sailor". I know it's kinda "too easy" to box him in as the anti-artistic, don't-f***-with-the-formula guy, but things like this really do show him to be the kind of person his detractors think he is. But then, if you want to paint him as "anti artistic" he pulls out something like "All This Is That". But I have this sneaking suspicion that this song is only allowed because he wrote it, unlike Brian's more esoteric material. Because if anything, songs like "Sail On, Sailor", "Marcella", and "Heroes And Villains" are much more commercial than "All This Is That", yet Mike plays "All This Is That" much more.
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« Reply #77 on: May 08, 2013, 11:51:59 AM »

I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Unbelievable that Mike was against "Sail On, Sailor". I know it's kinda "too easy" to box him in as the anti-artistic, don't-f***-with-the-formula guy, but things like this really do show him to be the kind of person his detractors think he is. But then, if you want to paint him as "anti artistic" he pulls out something like "All This Is That". But I have this sneaking suspicion that this song is only allowed because he wrote it, unlike Brian's more esoteric material. Because if anything, songs like "Sail On, Sailor", "Marcella", and "Heroes And Villains" are much more commercial than "All This Is That", yet Mike plays "All This Is That" much more.

He doesn't, though, at least in my experience. Of the eight shows I've seen Mike perform (either as Mike & Bruce or on the reunion tour), six had Sail On Sailor and only five had All This Is That.

And the 'only in the set because Mike wrote it' argument doesn't apply to Til I Die, Here Today, Good Timin', Forever, or You Still Believe In Me, all of which the Mike & Bruce band have done live.
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« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2013, 12:11:38 PM »

I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Unbelievable that Mike was against "Sail On, Sailor". I know it's kinda "too easy" to box him in as the anti-artistic, don't-f***-with-the-formula guy, but things like this really do show him to be the kind of person his detractors think he is. But then, if you want to paint him as "anti artistic" he pulls out something like "All This Is That". But I have this sneaking suspicion that this song is only allowed because he wrote it, unlike Brian's more esoteric material. Because if anything, songs like "Sail On, Sailor", "Marcella", and "Heroes And Villains" are much more commercial than "All This Is That", yet Mike plays "All This Is That" much more.

He doesn't, though, at least in my experience. Of the eight shows I've seen Mike perform (either as Mike & Bruce or on the reunion tour), six had Sail On Sailor and only five had All This Is That.

And the 'only in the set because Mike wrote it' argument doesn't apply to Til I Die, Here Today, Good Timin', Forever, or You Still Believe In Me, all of which the Mike & Bruce band have done live.

This.

I think many people have been surprised at the number of non-Mike-written rarities that have been added over the years. Betsy and Little Girl I Once Knew being two more. It seems it is more about which songs Mike likes rather which he wrote.

And if no rarities are played I think it's down to the belief that the audience won't want to hear them. Which is understandable and happens with many bands who've been around for yonks.
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« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2013, 12:40:56 PM »

OK. So here's the deal. Whether Cam wants to accept it or not, this was Mike's group by the late '80s/early '90s more than it had been at any point since the early days. Maybe he wasn't confirmed as the "boss/head guy/recording captain/oh captain my captain/what have you" but the facts are he was front and center, writing credit wise, stage show wise, appearances on Full House representing the band, etc. And the proof is in the pudding that during this time by and large the band sucked. They had some OK stuff on Still Cruisin', but it was obvious Mike especially just wants to write about summer and cars. And the liner notes to Summer in Paradise prove that it was his baby, and the result is not only The Beach Boys worst album, but one of the most embarrassing albums in music history. An album that sold under 10,000 copies. I think it would be fair to say that no Mike Love equals no Summer in Paradise. Which means I fault him (and Terry Melcher) more than anybody else for the debacle. Mike Love was an embarrassment during those years, and to an extent, the stench of that embarrassment still permeates to this day.

But anyways, yeah, all five of them are to blame. Mike, Bruce, Al, Carl, and even Brian. They all made the embarrassing choices. But we must note it's not Brian, Al, or Dave taking "Beach Boys" promo photos with John Stamos.

Lastly, who gives a f*** who was "officially" in charge. Whatever happened happened. It's really unimportant, even by Smiley Smile forum standards.

"Mike just wants to write about summer and cars" ......

Funny then that the song called "In My Car" was written by Brian ;P ;P
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« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2013, 01:41:38 PM »

Cam,

Leadership...There probably aren't any meeting minutes available, taped conversations, contracts, or interviews regarding leadership. You won't find it on the album covers, liner notes, the concert MC isn't going to announce it, and band members are rarely going to mention it in interviews. So, you have to rely on your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge that you have accumulated over the years.

In this thread that you started, you keep asking for evidence. There isn't any. So stop asking. Like I mentioned in my earlier post a few days ago, which you ignored or you wouldn't have continued to pursue the subject, you have to rely on your common sense. I know that is a dangerous proposition when you're dealing with The Beach Boys, but give it a shot. Please, give it a shot. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Would you mind using your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge in answering them? You won't find the answers in any books or magazines or the internet. Just make a guess, an educated guess. I won't bind you to your answers. I promise. If possible, could you limit your answers to one or two or three names. I would really appreciate that.

1977 - Who do you think LED the M.I.U. project at the Maharishi, repeat, Maharishi International University which Carl and Dennis barely attended, Mike Love wrote the lyrics to several of the  songs including "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "Kona Coast", "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love", Belles Of Paris", and "Matchpoint Of Our Love", the co-producer was Mike Love's friend Ron Altbach, and the other producer was Mike Love's best friend in the band, Al Jardine? Answer?

1978 - Who do you think LED the idea to bring back Charles LLoyd to play saxophone at Beach Boys' concerts for Celebration songs such as "Almost Summer" and "Cruisin", and the song that Mike Love taught to the audience, "Country Pie"? Answer?

1984 - While I'm sure a vote was probably taken to finalize the show, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea for the Beach Boys' D.C. Beach Party with LaToya Jackson, Julio Iglesias, Ringo Starr, and others? Answer?

1987 - Which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea to pair The Beach Boys with The Fat Boys to record "Wipe Out"? Answer?

1988 - Which Beach Boy befriended John Stamos which LED to Stamos performing live with the group, recording with group, and "pulling the necessary strings" to having The Beach Boys appear on several of his TV shows, increasing the group's popularity among a younger audience? Answer?

1989 - 1992 While Bruce Johnston may have re-connected with Terry Melcher and then onto the The Beach Boys, after Terry became the group's producer, which Beach Boy WORKED EXTENSIVELY with Terry, writing numerous songs on the Still Cruisin' album and the Summer In Paradise album, thus LEADING the group on record? Answer?

1996 - Stars And Stripes - an album of Beach Boys' covers; except for "I Can Hear Music", all taken from 1966 and earlier, the surf & turf era. While I'm sure a project such as this had to be cleared by the group, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think worked the most behind the scenes to get this project done? Just make a guess? I won't bind you to it. Hint: ....a rar, a rar, a rar, that's your hat... Answer?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 01:53:18 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #81 on: May 08, 2013, 01:48:03 PM »

1996 - Stars And Stripes - an album of Beach Boys' covers; except for "I Can Hear Music", all taken from 1966 and earlier, the surf & turf era. While I'm sure a project such as this had to be cleared by the group, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think worked the most behind the scenes to get this project done?

I'd guess it was the album's executive producer.  Oh, hang on.
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« Reply #82 on: May 08, 2013, 01:52:41 PM »

Leadership...There probably aren't any meeting minutes available, taped conversations, contracts, or interviews regarding leadership. You won't find it on the album covers, liner notes, the concert MC isn't going to announce it, and band members are rarely going to mention it in interviews. So, you have to rely on your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge that you have accumulated over the years.

In this thread that you started, you keep asking for evidence. There isn't any. So stop asking. Like I mentioned in my earlier post a few days ago, which you ignored or you wouldn't have continued to pursue the subject, you have to rely on your common sense. I know that is a dangerous proposition when you're dealing with The Beach Boys, but give it a shot. Please, give it a shot. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Would you mind using your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge in answering them? You won't find the answers in any books or magazines or the internet. Just make a guess, an educated guess. I won't bind you to your answers. I promise. If possible, could you limit your answers to one or two or three names. I would really appreciate that.

1977 - Who do you think LED the M.I.U. project at the Maharishi, repeat, Maharishi International University which Carl and Dennis barely attended, Mike Love wrote the lyrics to several of the  songs including "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "Kona Coast", "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love", Belles Of Paris", and "Matchpoint Of Our Love", the co-producer was Mike Love's friend Ron Altbach, and the other producer was Mike Love's best friend in the band, Al Jardine? Answer?

1978 - Who do you think LED the idea to bring back Charles LLoyd to play saxophone at Beach Boys' concerts for Celebration songs such as "Almost Summer" and "Cruisin", and the song that Mike Love taught to the audience, "Country Pie"? Answer?

1984 - While I'm sure a vote was probably taken to finalize the show, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea for the Beach Boys' D.C. Beach Party with LaToya Jackson, Julio Iglesias, Ringo Starr, and others? Answer?

1987 - Which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea to pair The Beach Boys with The Fat Boys to record "Wipe Out"? Answer?

1988 - Which Beach Boy befriended John Stamos which LED to Stamos performing live with the group, recording with group, and "pulling the necessary strings" to having The Beach Boys appear on several of his TV shows, increasing the group's popularity among a younger audience? Answer?

1989 - 1992 While Bruce Johnston may have re-connected with Terry Melcher and then onto the The Beach Boys, after Terry became the group's producer, which Beach Boy WORKED EXTENSIVELY with Terry, writing numerous songs on the Still Cruisin' album and the Summer In Paradise album, thus LEADING the group on record? Answer?

1996 - Stars And Stripes - an album of Beach Boys' covers; except for "I Can Hear Music", all taken from 1966 and earlier, the surf & turf era. While I'm sure a project such as this had to be cleared by the group, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think worked the most behind the scenes to get this project done? Just make a guess? I won't bind you to it. Hint: ....a rar, a rar, a rar, that's your hat... Answer?

These questions don't amount to a damn thing unless we're all supposed to agree that MIU, Celebration, SIP, Stars & Stripes all suck balls, which I don't. So therefore, it's a big DUH, it's Mike! So, what? Was Mike beating people up and blocking their material? No! I've been in a million bands and if anyone sat out meetings or didn't fight for their material, that's on them.
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« Reply #83 on: May 08, 2013, 02:06:25 PM »

Leadership...There probably aren't any meeting minutes available, taped conversations, contracts, or interviews regarding leadership. You won't find it on the album covers, liner notes, the concert MC isn't going to announce it, and band members are rarely going to mention it in interviews. So, you have to rely on your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge that you have accumulated over the years.

In this thread that you started, you keep asking for evidence. There isn't any. So stop asking. Like I mentioned in my earlier post a few days ago, which you ignored or you wouldn't have continued to pursue the subject, you have to rely on your common sense. I know that is a dangerous proposition when you're dealing with The Beach Boys, but give it a shot. Please, give it a shot. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Would you mind using your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge in answering them? You won't find the answers in any books or magazines or the internet. Just make a guess, an educated guess. I won't bind you to your answers. I promise. If possible, could you limit your answers to one or two or three names. I would really appreciate that.

1977 - Who do you think LED the M.I.U. project at the Maharishi, repeat, Maharishi International University which Carl and Dennis barely attended, Mike Love wrote the lyrics to several of the  songs including "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "Kona Coast", "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love", Belles Of Paris", and "Matchpoint Of Our Love", the co-producer was Mike Love's friend Ron Altbach, and the other producer was Mike Love's best friend in the band, Al Jardine? Answer?

1978 - Who do you think LED the idea to bring back Charles LLoyd to play saxophone at Beach Boys' concerts for Celebration songs such as "Almost Summer" and "Cruisin", and the song that Mike Love taught to the audience, "Country Pie"? Answer?

1984 - While I'm sure a vote was probably taken to finalize the show, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea for the Beach Boys' D.C. Beach Party with LaToya Jackson, Julio Iglesias, Ringo Starr, and others? Answer?

1987 - Which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea to pair The Beach Boys with The Fat Boys to record "Wipe Out"? Answer?

1988 - Which Beach Boy befriended John Stamos which LED to Stamos performing live with the group, recording with group, and "pulling the necessary strings" to having The Beach Boys appear on several of his TV shows, increasing the group's popularity among a younger audience? Answer?

1989 - 1992 While Bruce Johnston may have re-connected with Terry Melcher and then onto the The Beach Boys, after Terry became the group's producer, which Beach Boy WORKED EXTENSIVELY with Terry, writing numerous songs on the Still Cruisin' album and the Summer In Paradise album, thus LEADING the group on record? Answer?

1996 - Stars And Stripes - an album of Beach Boys' covers; except for "I Can Hear Music", all taken from 1966 and earlier, the surf & turf era. While I'm sure a project such as this had to be cleared by the group, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think worked the most behind the scenes to get this project done? Just make a guess? I won't bind you to it. Hint: ....a rar, a rar, a rar, that's your hat... Answer?

These questions don't amount to a damn thing unless we're all supposed to agree that MIU, Celebration, SIP, Stars & Stripes all suck balls, which I don't. So therefore, it's a big DUH, it's Mike! So, what? Was Mike beating people up and blocking their material? No! I've been in a million bands and if anyone sat out meetings or didn't fight for their material, that's on them.

But, that IS the point! DUH is the point! Just go through the various Beach Boys' projects and use your common sense and Beach Boys' knowledge....this one was Brian-led, this one was group-led, this one was Carl-led, this one was Mike-led....and answer your own questions. It's easy to do. I was just pointing out, in my opinion, that Mike led pretty many projects. So, I'm hoping that Cam will answer the questions, look at his answers, and move on. If his answers to my above questions aren't "Mike", well, I respect his opinion, but he is seeing things differently than me and maybe many other fans.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:07:39 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #84 on: May 08, 2013, 02:11:23 PM »

Yeah, DUH usually seems to be the point with The Beach Boys Tongue

I think the words "led" and "controlled" are misused a bit in this context though.... Led/used tend to imply that someone was in a strict leadership role when in most of these cases it seems to be by default more than anything.
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« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2013, 02:11:42 PM »

The main discussion here seems to have switched to what the word 'leadership' means. Some seem to think that as the other members could have stopped Mike from being the leader (probably true) that that means he wasn't the leader. An odd way of looking at it imo.
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« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2013, 02:17:22 PM »

Yeah, DUH usually seems to be the point with The Beach Boys Tongue

I think the words "led" and "controlled" are misused a bit in this context though.... Led/used tend to imply that someone was in a strict leadership role when in most of these cases it seems to be by default more than anything.

I agree. In most of the time frame we are discussing, Mike was the only Beach Boy motivated enough to think outside the box (yes, sometimes bone-headed) and try to make things happen for the group. After he (Mike) got it done, yeah, it probably had to be cleared by the group - which it usually did! But, Mike LED the project. Man, are we beating a dead horse or what?
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« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2013, 02:56:24 PM »

I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Unbelievable that Mike was against "Sail On, Sailor". I know it's kinda "too easy" to box him in as the anti-artistic, don't-f***-with-the-formula guy, but things like this really do show him to be the kind of person his detractors think he is. But then, if you want to paint him as "anti artistic" he pulls out something like "All This Is That". But I have this sneaking suspicion that this song is only allowed because he wrote it, unlike Brian's more esoteric material. Because if anything, songs like "Sail On, Sailor", "Marcella", and "Heroes And Villains" are much more commercial than "All This Is That", yet Mike plays "All This Is That" much more.

He doesn't, though, at least in my experience. Of the eight shows I've seen Mike perform (either as Mike & Bruce or on the reunion tour), six had Sail On Sailor and only five had All This Is That.

And the 'only in the set because Mike wrote it' argument doesn't apply to Til I Die, Here Today, Good Timin', Forever, or You Still Believe In Me, all of which the Mike & Bruce band have done live.

There tends to be a big difference between the shows Mike's band does in the U.S. and what he does in Europe.
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« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2013, 03:02:05 PM »

I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Unbelievable that Mike was against "Sail On, Sailor". I know it's kinda "too easy" to box him in as the anti-artistic, don't-f***-with-the-formula guy, but things like this really do show him to be the kind of person his detractors think he is. But then, if you want to paint him as "anti artistic" he pulls out something like "All This Is That". But I have this sneaking suspicion that this song is only allowed because he wrote it, unlike Brian's more esoteric material. Because if anything, songs like "Sail On, Sailor", "Marcella", and "Heroes And Villains" are much more commercial than "All This Is That", yet Mike plays "All This Is That" much more.

He doesn't, though, at least in my experience. Of the eight shows I've seen Mike perform (either as Mike & Bruce or on the reunion tour), six had Sail On Sailor and only five had All This Is That.

And the 'only in the set because Mike wrote it' argument doesn't apply to Til I Die, Here Today, Good Timin', Forever, or You Still Believe In Me, all of which the Mike & Bruce band have done live.

There tends to be a big difference between the shows Mike's band does in the U.S. and what he does in Europe.

That might be true, but I've not heard of him doing All This Is That *more* in the US than in Europe -- and the discussion wasn't about "Mike's shows in the US" but just about "Mike's shows". My point was that when he does add rarities to the setlist -- which, by their nature, is infrequently, or they wouldn't be rarities -- there doesn't seem to be all that much of a bias towards ones he wrote. There's some, obviously (I doubt any audience has ever massively clamoured for Cool Head Warm Heart) but he's as likely to add a Brian solo composition like Til I Die as anything else.
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« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2013, 05:18:06 PM »

Cam,

Leadership...There probably aren't any meeting minutes available, taped conversations, contracts, or interviews regarding leadership. You won't find it on the album covers, liner notes, the concert MC isn't going to announce it, and band members are rarely going to mention it in interviews. So, you have to rely on your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge that you have accumulated over the years.

In this thread that you started, you keep asking for evidence. There isn't any. So stop asking. Like I mentioned in my earlier post a few days ago, which you ignored or you wouldn't have continued to pursue the subject, you have to rely on your common sense. I know that is a dangerous proposition when you're dealing with The Beach Boys, but give it a shot. Please, give it a shot. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Would you mind using your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge in answering them? You won't find the answers in any books or magazines or the internet. Just make a guess, an educated guess. I won't bind you to your answers. I promise. If possible, could you limit your answers to one or two or three names. I would really appreciate that.

1977 - Who do you think LED the M.I.U. project at the Maharishi, repeat, Maharishi International University which Carl and Dennis barely attended, Mike Love wrote the lyrics to several of the  songs including "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "Kona Coast", "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love", Belles Of Paris", and "Matchpoint Of Our Love", the co-producer was Mike Love's friend Ron Altbach, and the other producer was Mike Love's best friend in the band, Al Jardine? Answer?

1978 - Who do you think LED the idea to bring back Charles LLoyd to play saxophone at Beach Boys' concerts for Celebration songs such as "Almost Summer" and "Cruisin", and the song that Mike Love taught to the audience, "Country Pie"? Answer?

1984 - While I'm sure a vote was probably taken to finalize the show, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea for the Beach Boys' D.C. Beach Party with LaToya Jackson, Julio Iglesias, Ringo Starr, and others? Answer?

1987 - Which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea to pair The Beach Boys with The Fat Boys to record "Wipe Out"? Answer?

1988 - Which Beach Boy befriended John Stamos which LED to Stamos performing live with the group, recording with group, and "pulling the necessary strings" to having The Beach Boys appear on several of his TV shows, increasing the group's popularity among a younger audience? Answer?

1989 - 1992 While Bruce Johnston may have re-connected with Terry Melcher and then onto the The Beach Boys, after Terry became the group's producer, which Beach Boy WORKED EXTENSIVELY with Terry, writing numerous songs on the Still Cruisin' album and the Summer In Paradise album, thus LEADING the group on record? Answer?

1996 - Stars And Stripes - an album of Beach Boys' covers; except for "I Can Hear Music", all taken from 1966 and earlier, the surf & turf era. While I'm sure a project such as this had to be cleared by the group, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think worked the most behind the scenes to get this project done? Just make a guess? I won't bind you to it. Hint: ....a rar, a rar, a rar, that's your hat... Answer?

1977 - Al Jardine

1978 – Whoops, misread this one at first. Though he already had history with the group I believe, I guess it was Mike. If he didn't sit down after just those songs then I might guess anyone or everyone in the band. Could have been Carl. Is Charles Lloyd considered a negative?

1984 – The promoters

1987 – The Fat Boys’ producers

1988 – Don’t know. I’ve always thought Stamos pulled his own strings.

1989 - As already discussed Mike co-wrote half of the new songs but did not lead on SC. Brian and Al produced tracks on it and broke the labels theme so I suppose they came closest to leading on SC.

1992 - As already discussed Mike led SIP.

1996 – Joe Thomas and Brian Wilson

« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:30:11 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #90 on: May 08, 2013, 05:40:26 PM »

Wasn't Stamos a rabid Dennis fan who talked his way into a Dennis-attended party only to have Dennis throw a knife at him?

After that he figured he'd work his way into the Beach Boys camp via Mike where he'd have less a chance of being murdered for his efforts?
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« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2013, 06:28:10 PM »

Wasn't Stamos a rabid Dennis fan who talked his way into a Dennis-attended party only to have Dennis throw a knife at him?

After that he figured he'd work his way into the Beach Boys camp via Mike where he'd have less a chance of being murdered for his efforts?

Please enlighten me with that story.
That sounds crazy, and like something I want to hear right now.
I must know!
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« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2013, 06:49:19 PM »

The Mike Love stereotype was created 1985-1998...
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« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2013, 11:16:56 PM »

Does anybody else feel they are banging their head against the wall on this thread?
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« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2013, 11:35:12 PM »

Does anybody else feel they are banging their head against the wall on this thread?

Yep, which is why I'm finished arguing with Cam. He believes what he wants to believe, and I sure ain't gonna be the guy to change it.
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« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2013, 11:45:41 PM »

Leader and dictator do not mean the same thing.

Just because a leader does not have absolute power in the band, and is not responsible for every single decision that is made, does not mean he/she is not a "leader."  A leader is the person who sets the direction and generally has the final say in decisions that are made.  I lead my band.  But there are times they don't want to something I want to do.  Do I make them do it? Sometimes, and sometimes I don't.  Too many times making people what they don't want to do and guess what?  You don't have a band any more.  Part of being a leader and staying a leader is knowing how to keep your troops motivated and in line and moving forward.

So this whole Mike wasn't the leader because Brian or Al got a song on or whatever, saying absence of absolute control is disproving someone's leadership role -- it totally misunderstands what band dynamics are, and what the nature of leadership is.  Silly.
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« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2013, 02:21:44 AM »

Leader and dictator do not mean the same thing.

Just because a leader does not have absolute power in the band, and is not responsible for every single decision that is made, does not mean he/she is not a "leader."  A leader is the person who sets the direction and generally has the final say in decisions that are made.  I lead my band.  But there are times they don't want to something I want to do.  Do I make them do it? Sometimes, and sometimes I don't.  Too many times making people what they don't want to do and guess what?  You don't have a band any more.  Part of being a leader and staying a leader is knowing how to keep your troops motivated and in line and moving forward.

So this whole Mike wasn't the leader because Brian or Al got a song on or whatever, saying absence of absolute control is disproving someone's leadership role -- it totally misunderstands what band dynamics are, and what the nature of leadership is.  Silly.

This is what I'm saying except about Carl. When four guys are equal partners the decisions have many owners, you have various people taking a lead on this and that  but there is one guy who is looked to as leader and that was Carl.
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« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2013, 09:19:49 AM »

I remember Billy Hinsche saying once that Sail On Sailor was added to the setlist in the 90s by either Carl or Al, and against Mike's wishes, so at the very least he didn't have complete veto power.

Unbelievable that Mike was against "Sail On, Sailor". I know it's kinda "too easy" to box him in as the anti-artistic, don't-f***-with-the-formula guy, but things like this really do show him to be the kind of person his detractors think he is. But then, if you want to paint him as "anti artistic" he pulls out something like "All This Is That". But I have this sneaking suspicion that this song is only allowed because he wrote it, unlike Brian's more esoteric material. Because if anything, songs like "Sail On, Sailor", "Marcella", and "Heroes And Villains" are much more commercial than "All This Is That", yet Mike plays "All This Is That" much more.
I also think another factor in playing it is the TM themes that Mike always promotes. Hell, they played "everyone's in love with you" live in the 1970s, one of the worst songs on 15 big ones.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2013, 09:23:18 AM »

I also think another factor in playing it is the TM themes that Mike always promotes. Hell, they played "everyone's in love with you" live in the 1970s, one of the worst songs on 15 big ones.

They played it in 2004 and 2008 as well in a superior arrangement I would say. Not a bad song but a horrible arrangement on 15BO.
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Cabinessenceking
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« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2013, 09:31:09 AM »

Cam,

Leadership...There probably aren't any meeting minutes available, taped conversations, contracts, or interviews regarding leadership. You won't find it on the album covers, liner notes, the concert MC isn't going to announce it, and band members are rarely going to mention it in interviews. So, you have to rely on your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge that you have accumulated over the years.

In this thread that you started, you keep asking for evidence. There isn't any. So stop asking. Like I mentioned in my earlier post a few days ago, which you ignored or you wouldn't have continued to pursue the subject, you have to rely on your common sense. I know that is a dangerous proposition when you're dealing with The Beach Boys, but give it a shot. Please, give it a shot. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Would you mind using your common sense and your Beach Boys' knowledge in answering them? You won't find the answers in any books or magazines or the internet. Just make a guess, an educated guess. I won't bind you to your answers. I promise. If possible, could you limit your answers to one or two or three names. I would really appreciate that.

1977 - Who do you think LED the M.I.U. project at the Maharishi, repeat, Maharishi International University which Carl and Dennis barely attended, Mike Love wrote the lyrics to several of the  songs including "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "Kona Coast", "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love", Belles Of Paris", and "Matchpoint Of Our Love", the co-producer was Mike Love's friend Ron Altbach, and the other producer was Mike Love's best friend in the band, Al Jardine? Answer?

1978 - Who do you think LED the idea to bring back Charles LLoyd to play saxophone at Beach Boys' concerts for Celebration songs such as "Almost Summer" and "Cruisin", and the song that Mike Love taught to the audience, "Country Pie"? Answer?

1984 - While I'm sure a vote was probably taken to finalize the show, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea for the Beach Boys' D.C. Beach Party with LaToya Jackson, Julio Iglesias, Ringo Starr, and others? Answer?

1987 - Which Beach Boy do you think LED the idea to pair The Beach Boys with The Fat Boys to record "Wipe Out"? Answer?

1988 - Which Beach Boy befriended John Stamos which LED to Stamos performing live with the group, recording with group, and "pulling the necessary strings" to having The Beach Boys appear on several of his TV shows, increasing the group's popularity among a younger audience? Answer?

1989 - 1992 While Bruce Johnston may have re-connected with Terry Melcher and then onto the The Beach Boys, after Terry became the group's producer, which Beach Boy WORKED EXTENSIVELY with Terry, writing numerous songs on the Still Cruisin' album and the Summer In Paradise album, thus LEADING the group on record? Answer?

1996 - Stars And Stripes - an album of Beach Boys' covers; except for "I Can Hear Music", all taken from 1966 and earlier, the surf & turf era. While I'm sure a project such as this had to be cleared by the group, if you had to make an educated guess, which Beach Boy do you think worked the most behind the scenes to get this project done? Just make a guess? I won't bind you to it. Hint: ....a rar, a rar, a rar, that's your hat... Answer?

It's not like anyone else in the group  was presenting an alternative to these things?
It's not like Carl was constantly loaded for a new Holland but were cut short by Mike's own projects and ambitions. I mean, sure both Carl and Dennis boycotted the MIU sessions, but for what? Why didn't they come up with the material to make LA Light a better album than it turned out?

I think Mike's an ass, but he sure took a directionless band in a direction. For that I can give him praise. The Beach Boys as a creative force was dead by 1977 and MIU showed up right after. Who can blame him for that?
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