Is the music from Pet Sounds and Smile rock music?

[Pet Sounder]

Seems like the rock music classification isn't the best way to describe what's found on these albums (along with a scattering of other BB tunes).  Or is it?

[AndrewHickey]

No.
Next question.
(I think this should be moved to Thread For Various Insignificant Questions...)

[SMiLE-addict]

That depends on how you define "rock music."

[puni puni]

Yeah it rocks. It really, really rocks.

[Jason]

The Beach Boys were a rock band. Yes, Pet Sounds and Smile were and are rock music.

[wantsomecorn]

Fire is pretty rocking song, if you just go by the fact that it has loud guitars and drums in it.

The live versions of a lot of the Pet Sounds material is pretty rocking too, the In Concert version of Wouldn't It Be Nice is a completely different beast than the album version.

[Dancing Bear]

There are three types of music. Classical, jazz and pop music. Pet Sounds and Smile weren't neither classical nor jazz, then it was pop.

Trust me, this line of thinking saves you a lot of trouble in discerning 'pop' and 'rock'.

[leggo of my ego]

Brian said of SMILE its a "teenage symphony to God"

so it can't be rock -- or he was just high as a kite when he said it. 

To me Pet Sounds is a lot less Rock-n-Roll and more Pop-rock with the wide array
of instruments used to record it. There are also symphonic elements to PS an SMILE
and more than a few important people in the industry start to liken Brian to the great
classical composers with the advent of these albums.

There is just way too much more to them to just label it "rock"

[bossaroo]

it's all just music MAAAAAAAAAN

several of the songs on Pet Sounds can be described as jazz with classical elements.

i would define both PS and SMiLE as rock music, a broader term than rock'n'roll. but there are lots of "rocking" moments on both albums.

Wouldn't It Be Nice has that rockin' accordion sound. That's Not Me has those toms. I'm Waiting For The Day totally rocks. Here Today, Sloop, Ego, etc. They all rock in their own way.

'Gee' is considered by many as the first rock'n'roll song. Brian included it for a reason. SMiLE was traditional and modern rock all at once. still is.
the Heroes chants are classic doo wop and there are some very rocking moments on Cabin Essence, Wind Chimes, Child, and Mrs. OLeary's Cow to name a few.

[Micha]

it's all just music MAAAAAAAAAN

Yes. PS and SMiLE Rock music, no. Not every music that rocks is Rock music, though. Rock music is overrated, anyway.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

There are three types of music. Classical, jazz and pop music.

You are joking, right?

Just ignoring the fact that classical music only covers the period between 1750 and 1825, where would you out all the different genres of world music, which are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. Where would plainsong go? What about when what is now considered jazz, or classical, would have been considered pop?

I thought I had narrow views!

[AndrewHickey]

There are three types of music. Classical, jazz and pop music.

You are joking, right?

Just ignoring the fact that classical music only covers the period between 1750 and 1825, where would you out all the different genres of world music, which are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. Where would plainsong go? What about when what is now considered jazz, or classical, would have been considered pop?

I thought I had narrow views!

There are two types of music -- music I like, and bad music.

[Cabinessenceking]

After the Surf rock days the Beach Boys became a pop band. They still area pop band. For some reason people want everything to be RAWWWK N' ROLLLLLL but to me the Beach Boys are quintessentially a pop band.
For comparison you can consider the Beatles, a band which made more 'rock' sounding music than the Beach Boys yet are labelled a pop band.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I think of Pet Sounds and SMiLE as art music. Or progressive (in the literal sense and not the genre).

Soul music, and I don't mean black soul, I mean from the heart.

[Micha]

There are three types of music. Classical, jazz and pop music.

You are joking, right?

Just ignoring the fact that classical music only covers the period between 1750 and 1825, where would you out all the different genres of world music, which are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. Where would plainsong go? What about when what is now considered jazz, or classical, would have been considered pop?

I thought I had narrow views!

There are two types of music -- music I like, and bad music.

That's a good one! If I ever should choose a signature for my posts, this would be it!

[the captain]

There are three types of music. Classical, jazz and pop music.

You are joking, right?

Just ignoring the fact that classical music only covers the period between 1750 and 1825, where would you out all the different genres of world music, which are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. Where would plainsong go? What about when what is now considered jazz, or classical, would have been considered pop?

I thought I had narrow views!

There are two types of music -- music I like, and bad music.

Yeah, sorry Dancing Bear, but while that might result in a workable system for you, it's not especially accurate.

I try to avoid over-categorizing music, probably in large part because I'm so prone to organizing things that I'd drive myself quite literally insane if I did, but also because music cross-pollinates too easily and often. But there are many basic styles of music outside of classical (even if you use that term to mean "serious" or "art" music, though like (Stephen Newcome) I end up quibbling with that due to the specificity of that term in formal study of art music), jazz, and pop. And those three styles of music interbreed as much as any other.

For example, how does someone categorize Duke Ellington's Black, Brown & Beige, or Andrew Hill's whole catalog? They are every bit as serious and complex as "classical music," but they use jazz. Many, many other jazz composers fit into that same dilemma. What about "classical" composers who use jazz ideas in their music? Equally common issue for the past hundred years or so. "Classical" composers have also used folk--which you omitted from your list, but presumably could fit into the folk category.

What is Frank Zappa, who used all three on a regular basis, and often within the same albums and songs?

I recommend the original poster and everyone else not worry too much about how to classify this or any album. You can find the influences within it and discuss where they come from, just as you can with music that has come out since and been influenced by Pet Sounds or Smile. But to say this album is that and that album is this and this person is XYZ...it's a bit of a waste of time unless you're not intending to come to an answer and having the debate just for the fun of it. Because your answer will be incomplete or incoherent.

[Quzi]

[EgoHanger1966]

Hmm...."medium rock ballad" doesn't seem like a phrase that would be used in 1966. Wonder when that dates from?

[AndrewHickey]

Hmm...."medium rock ballad" doesn't seem like a phrase that would be used in 1966. Wonder when that dates from?

Well, the phrase was definitely in use as of 1969:
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_suspicious_minds.html
Reviewer Bill Crawford noted, "With his left leg moving like a jack hammer, Elvis runs the gamut of his old favourites. His newest song ‘Suspicious Mind’ is a sensuous medium rock ballad that is sure to sell."

[Dancing Bear]

There are three types of music. Classical, jazz and pop music.

You are joking, right?

Just ignoring the fact that classical music only covers the period between 1750 and 1825, where would you out all the different genres of world music, which are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. Where would plainsong go? What about when what is now considered jazz, or classical, would have been considered pop?

I thought I had narrow views!

There are two types of music -- music I like, and bad music.

Yeah, sorry Dancing Bear, but while that might result in a workable system for you, it's not especially accurate.

I try to avoid over-categorizing music, probably in large part because I'm so prone to organizing things that I'd drive myself quite literally insane if I did, but also because music cross-pollinates too easily and often. But there are many basic styles of music outside of classical (even if you use that term to mean "serious" or "art" music, though like (Stephen Newcome) I end up quibbling with that due to the specificity of that term in formal study of art music), jazz, and pop. And those three styles of music interbreed as much as any other.

For example, how does someone categorize Duke Ellington's Black, Brown & Beige, or Andrew Hill's whole catalog? They are every bit as serious and complex as "classical music," but they use jazz. Many, many other jazz composers fit into that same dilemma. What about "classical" composers who use jazz ideas in their music? Equally common issue for the past hundred years or so. "Classical" composers have also used folk--which you omitted from your list, but presumably could fit into the folk category.

What is Frank Zappa, who used all three on a regular basis, and often within the same albums and songs?

I recommend the original poster and everyone else not worry too much about how to classify this or any album. You can find the influences within it and discuss where they come from, just as you can with music that has come out since and been influenced by Pet Sounds or Smile. But to say this album is that and that album is this and this person is XYZ...it's a bit of a waste of time unless you're not intending to come to an answer and having the debate just for the fun of it. Because your answer will be incomplete or incoherent.

Oh sure. But you know hpw the 'classic rock' types think that rock >>>>>> pop. Claiming that it's all pop music is fun and makes them mad.

Of coiurse there are those Brian Wilson fans who believe that Pet Sounds >>>>> everything except for Gerschwin and beyond. It's fun to piss them off too.

[hypehat]

Hmm...."medium rock ballad" doesn't seem like a phrase that would be used in 1966. Wonder when that dates from?

Never mind that, it doesn't sound like a phrase I'd use to describe the album version of You Still Believe In Me. Bruce's comments in the auction thread suggest that some of those lead sheets are actually for later tours, and You Still Believe In Me does sound like a medium rock ballad on the In Concert album...


Also - on the album YSBIM is in B, and live in the 70's they played it in C. I'd be certain that's what that sheet is.

[brother john]

Hmm...."medium rock ballad" doesn't seem like a phrase that would be used in 1966. Wonder when that dates from?

This phrase is designed to describe the tempo, not the genre of music.

[NHC]

Hmm...."medium rock ballad" doesn't seem like a phrase that would be used in 1966. Wonder when that dates from?

This phrase is designed to describe the tempo, not the genre of music.

Agree.  A lot of sheet music from that day, and undoubtedly other days, has that"cue" on it.

[Cabinessenceking]

In the wrong key, so probably from a rehearsal for live touring (early 70's?).

[Outtasight!]

Its cosmic American music. Thanks Gram.