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RangeRoverA1
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« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2018, 06:35:07 PM »

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It's best, IMO, not to force one's views on others.
"express" & "exchange" (different views, good & bad sides to each food habit) isn't the same as "force" which I didn't say.

Quote
Of course, I'll discuss my beliefs if asked.
Yes, I said sth. along the lines. Discussing, exchanging, expressing, speaking up. It's jolly interesting to hear what meat-eaters think about the opposite side & vice versa, what they like & dislike about it, reasons they will not shift to different side etc. Should be fun.
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« Reply #126 on: August 16, 2018, 07:23:21 PM »

What you say is true IF both parties have an attitude that fosters free exchange of ideas without taking everything personally and the discussion is not used as an excuse to win an argument for the sake of one's ego. People such as this are few and far between, in my experience.
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« Reply #127 on: August 16, 2018, 10:47:15 PM »

Next question - can you tell which is correct, it's puzzling - "I think it right thing"/ "I think it's right thing", "I think it right to (do sth.)"/ "I think it's right to (do sth.)". I'm 70% sure "think it's" is right but interested in when people say "...think it...", is it just as correct as saying "...think it's..."? Or, typo?
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« Reply #128 on: August 17, 2018, 03:51:16 PM »

"I think it is (or it's) the right thing..." is correct, with "is" being the verb. We would not say, "I think it right thing." However, and this is tricky, more formal speakers sometimes say, "I think it the right thing to..." Another example is, "I think it best that you ..." These two examples are grammatically correct in terms of boring, complicated rules of grammar (content clauses, objects and predicates, blah, blah, blah), but I last heard this kind of speech on Downton Abbey! Hope this helps.
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« Reply #129 on: August 17, 2018, 07:36:15 PM »

Thanks, you helped. Smiley

The other phrase that puzzles when I read people using it to point out usually to previous poster's badly structured sentence is "non-sequitur". What does it really mean? With few examples.
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« Reply #130 on: August 18, 2018, 10:21:09 AM »

A non sequitur is when someone draws a conclusion that doesn't logically follow from what was said previously OR it could be a statement that has little or no relevance to what was said in the previous statement. They are, then, errors in reasoning. Here are a few examples:

    My purse was left on the desk. Sally was the last person in the classroom. Sally left the purse on the desk.
   
    I think that Celine Dion's My Heart Will Go On is a bad song. Therefore, all songs sung by Celine Dion are bad songs.

    I am mortal. I have some cats. My cats are therefore mortal.     
     
   
                                 
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RangeRoverA1
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« Reply #131 on: August 19, 2018, 05:22:55 PM »

Ha! Bizarre short tales. Thanks to explain.

Now, this doesn't make ANY sense. Can you help to see what this means? I'd seen people who like to use "coffee" in pseudo-funny way, complete with lol's. F.ex. "I knew that cup of coffee at 10pm was a bad idea."  "Haha, I know I said too much. Stupid coffee." What do they exactly even talk about? In which way it's funny? The popularity of these "coffee" lines, when did it begin? It's baffling.
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« Reply #132 on: August 20, 2018, 04:08:34 PM »

I sometimes say, if I forget something or make a mistake in the morning, "I didn't have my cup of coffee yet." It might mean that I actually did not have the coffee and am not yet mentally alert, or that I was just stupid and needed to blame something. As for the cup at 10:00 PM being a bad idea, I guess they mean that they are too wakeful to go to sleep. Also, people use a coffee line when they appear jittery, goofy, talkative, etc.
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« Reply #133 on: August 20, 2018, 04:33:52 PM »

Thanks to take the time to explain. But, it still bugs me why people use it to be funny. Tbh, I fail to see humor in it. Brow Usually, when people use many times these kinda jokes, surely repeating after everybody they hear joke - that, to me, is anti-funny.

This thread is really cool, can talk just about everything. What can you say about the art walks? There used to be New York poster really obsessed with them, to the point each year she started new thread about it, despite typing "art walk" in the Search, checkmark "topic subjects" & posting/ updating everything about it in *single* thread. It's allowed to post in old threads anyway. & it takes literally seconds to search it. Anyway, too long preface notwithstanding, did you attend such art walks when being in New York City?
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« Reply #134 on: August 21, 2018, 02:58:15 PM »

RRA1 - Art walks are very cool. I've never attended one in NYC, although they now take place even in smaller cities and towns. I enjoy the kind that include all of the arts - music, paintings, performance art, and unusual food. Nothing like it on a warm Sunday afternoon in the fall! Anything like this in Russia? Next weekend, I'm going to a Ukrainian festival that celebrates Ukrainian Independence Day. While not an "art walk" per se, they'll have pysanka on display and demonstrations by artisans, Hopak dancing, borscht, maybe some vatrushka for dessert!
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« Reply #135 on: August 21, 2018, 04:30:44 PM »

I'd like to say 2 things:

1. What's "performance art"? Seen this phrase many times, not 100% sure but is it sth. like hand-made things, f.ex. gzhel, khokhloma, pottery (or what Paul's daughter Heather's craft's called?)?

2. Why foreigners spell it like this - borscht? It isn't correct AT ALL to add "t". We don't say it like that, NEVER. Sorry, it bugs when foreigners spell words I know for sure what they're written like incorrectly. We say it "borsch". There's NO "t". It's like adding to "droog" (friend) "ht" - "drooght". I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT DOOFUS WHO ORIGINATED SUCH STUPID "BORSCHT" SPELLING.
& btw, it may be Ukrainian festival but we do eat vatrushka in Russia as well. Ditto borsch. Dunno what's pysanka or any other "used within Ukraine" word. What really doesn't make sense about some Ukrainians is that they show distinct dislike towards Russians, present their nation as superior, yet...wait for it...they speak Russian, without ANY accent to boot. Majority of Ukrainian show biz celebs sing songs in Russian. They start their careers not in Ukraine but, despite it being well-developed country, with many ritzy places & chances to make it big, they fly to Moscow, go thru million auditions there &, if they get luck to be "superstars", usually settle down in Moscow, don't get back to Ukraine.
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« Reply #136 on: August 22, 2018, 05:15:38 PM »

Performance is when people do dramatic things in public spaces. It is the performers who are the visual art.  They might pose in a thought-provoking way, do motions that are highly choreographed, etc. It started in the 1960s. One example is a woman who stood naked for several hours and told people they could do whatever they wanted to her. It was disturbing. Stella McCartney is a fashion designer.

Sorry about the spelling of the b-word. Spellings do tend to get mangled across the miles! I'm guessing the ch has a hard sound that sounds like a t, so perhaps that's where we got the idea.

Psysanka is the tradition of making elaborately decorated Easter eggs using wax and dyes. My friend, Dariya, used to demonstrate this in high school.

 
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« Reply #137 on: August 22, 2018, 06:19:03 PM »

Apology accepted even if, of course, it's not your fault. It seriously bugs when foreigners spell Russian words not rightly. Some fool who didn't live in Russia, can't speak Russian would write down "official" spelling in English dictionary & people repeat it. Sure technically borsch isn't Russian but it IS in Russian dictionary & Ukrainians don't spell it "борщт". With "t" in the end.

Ah, that's what's performance art. Boredom kingdom.

There's citations by famous people. They're usually jolly simple, as if anybody could think 'em up. Plain Joes & Janes can create various wisdom-like sayings. What do you like to say, is there Buckethead's trademark saying?
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« Reply #138 on: August 22, 2018, 07:33:17 PM »

Shouldn't have gotten involved with this thread. Sorry.
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« Reply #139 on: August 22, 2018, 08:00:38 PM »

I'm telling you - again, it's not the right way to spell it. It's not the right way to say it. It's not right, how many times can I repeat it for you, people, to understand it? You'll never see in Russian recipe books or Ukrainians spell it with "t". Jews spell it incorrectly. Jews who live in Ukraine, well-known Jews there, don't spell it that way. I tell you.
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« Reply #140 on: August 22, 2018, 08:23:58 PM »

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« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 09:22:26 PM by NOLA BB Fan » Logged

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 "The best thing you can be 'like' in music is yourself." Dr. John
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« Reply #141 on: August 22, 2018, 08:42:29 PM »

Well. As we say here, smb. talks about Foma, the other - Erema. I tell you about Russian words spelled incorrectly by foreigners, you - about U.S./ U.K. spelling variants. Last time repeat - it's NOT CORRECT to say/ spell "borsch" as "borschT". It's simply not. There's NO such thing as alternate spelling in Russian language. Zero, zilch, nada. There is alternate emphasis to words, both will be right but it's whole 'nother thing.

If you still doubt my information, continue spelling it as you wish, you know better than me apparently.

Seriously, why people can't listen to what I say? I knew this word, even tasted it, very familiar with it many years. I make it easy for you, do you really want to add "t"? Why can't people be easy about it - say "Ah, OK. I got it, it's "borsch". No, you must argue, bring up various points when right here I tell you it's not the right spelling. Why can't you be like Buckethead who accepted my info, didn't get skeptical about it, believed me 100%, relied to the info I gave since I know this word very well. I hate, it annoys me to no end when people show doubt towards anything I say, esp. when it's related to Russian words' spelling or anything Russian. Why can't you just go along with it & thank me for actually easing that word, thank me for the info?
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« Reply #142 on: August 22, 2018, 09:18:23 PM »

Okay, okay, you are right.
I wasn't saying that you were wrong. You obviously feel very strongly about that word, as I remember a similar conversation you had about this same thing a while back.
Let's just have a truce - agree that we Americans have a way of messing up perfectly good foreign words, changing the spelling or pronunciation for whatever reason.
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« Reply #143 on: August 23, 2018, 05:28:09 AM »

RRA1, you’re acting like a petulant child. People in America, where the common spelling is indeed borscht, can’t be expected to simply discard their reality simply because you say so. No one doubts how it is spelled or pronounced in Russia, and obviously you’d know best about that.

But the American Heritage Dictionary, for example, says:

“Borscht also borsht or borsch ... [Yiddish borsht, from Russian borshch, cow parsnip (the original base of the soup), borscht.]”

So unsurprisingly there are variant spellings, especially in different cultures. It’s normal, no big deal. We don’t debate Brits every time they say “humour” instead of “humor.” You can’t expect your preferred option to be taken on by people in another country who are using the standard spelling for that country.
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« Reply #144 on: August 23, 2018, 07:23:52 AM »

If Russian words' misspelling by foreigners is pet peeve, it doesn't mean I should be name-called. As I said, smb. assigning official spelling in English dictionary for various foreign words without actually knowing what the said word is written like in original language is weird to say the least. That heritage dictionary doesn't even fully with details explain how "t" got added to "borsch". It's not even Jewish word, yet somehow their spelling is being picked up by Americans. Maybe it's not big deal to you. It is to me. & yet I'm the culprit in this past discussion.
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« Reply #145 on: August 23, 2018, 09:27:26 AM »

Words transform when they are dispersed amongst different cultures and communities over time. This is just a fact of human language systems. Take names for example - if you look back on census records in my family tree, you'll see that my last name went through various transformations that mostly depended on how one person decided to spell it and pass it on. I probably have some very distant relatives in Europe who spell their last name different from my own. That's just part of how language works.

No culture or nation has any ownership over words. Period.
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« Reply #146 on: August 23, 2018, 10:25:06 AM »

CSM: yes.

RRA1: you’re not a culprit. And I ought not have called you a name. But that is how your multi-post insistence—and now your criticism of a reputable dictionary—in trying to argue against a basic reality of language comes across. Why would an entire nation reject its norms and rewrite its dictionaries because a message boarder says to do so? Your opinion on the subject, despite your being Russian, is not as authoritative as an entire, widely agreed upon norm. Your insistence otherwise is reminiscent of a toddler stomping its feet in a tantrum. It’s not a realistic complaint/demand.

Anyway I’ve said what I had to say, and it’s not so important to demand belaboring the point. I hope you’ll at least consider it. Let’s move on. And I apologize again for name calling.
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« Reply #147 on: August 23, 2018, 11:43:41 AM »

Thank you CSM. That was what I was trying to convey in the posts that I deleted.
It was probably as simple as those who came to the U.S. pronounced the word with a "t" sound  at the end, so that the transliteration reflected it. Whether it's "right" or "wrong", that spelling stuck.
I love studying the English language and how it evolved over time, and how many foreign words have been incorporated into it.
I appreciate Mari's (RR1) concern. Perhaps the Russian language has been more "stable" and hasn't had the changes English did. So seeing the transliterated words in a different spelling is jarring. (Although there have been changes in my lifetime. When I was young I saw references to the famous composer's name as "Tschaikowsky." Now it's " Tschaikovsky. ")

PS. Those with my last name who settled in the northeast US changed the spelling of it, adding  a letter. People who see my name, which hasn't been changed, have trouble figuring out how it's supposed to be pronounced.
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 "The best thing you can be 'like' in music is yourself." Dr. John
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« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2018, 06:23:46 AM »

Just of interest to anyone, here's a Wiki article on the transformation of the Russian language over the centuries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Russian_language

The mere fact that the article keeps making disclaimers about "modern spelling" suggests that the spelling of words has changed considerably with the progression of time.

The article also demonstrates how, like any language, Russian has transformed as a result of its ongoing experiences with other cultures.
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« Reply #149 on: August 24, 2018, 07:41:03 PM »

Especially affecting was the story of the loss of nasal vowels. Smiley I suppose similar disagreements also arise over the pronunciation of words. A friend of mine moved backed to Pennsylvania from the Boston area with her little girl. The school promptly recommended that she take speech therapy because she said "ah" at the end of words ending with r. In reality, the sweet child spent her life thus far in a town just north of the city where the stereotypical Boston accent is at its most extreme, and no one had an issue with it up there!
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