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Author Topic: Thoughts on recent Brian Wilson productions  (Read 4730 times)
Magic Transistor Radio
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« on: April 02, 2013, 07:30:12 AM »

I think That's Why God Made the Radio suffers of poor production for the most part with some exceptions, as did Imaginations. The best Brian works IMO are TLOS and Reimagines Gershwin. Both claim to be produced by Brian Wilson. Disney and Gettin in Over My Head are not quite up to par, but still better produced than the Joe Thomas productions IMO. BW 88 I has a freshness about it too. A lot of people hate its production, but I think it fit well with the times and also had Brian's magic.

So my question it, how much did Brian REALLY have to do with these productions? I think that one obvious improvement was the band that backs Brian on stage. They are Brian's wrecking crew today. Imaginations would have been better with them I think. GIOMH and TWGMTR might be poorly produced, but they sound better than Imaginations I think. Although Lay Down Burden is a great song, it would have been great to hear with his current band.
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:59:32 AM »

It's "Imagination", dammit.


I don't think we've had a real "Brian Wilson" production since Love You, and even that was 'mixed down' by Carl. And before that, i'd say Mount Vernon and Fairytale.

Everything released since then has been seriously filtered through other parties.
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 09:08:57 AM »

I happen to like the Imagination album, well, most of it anyway.  It is Adult Contemporary, for sure, but I really think that's where Brian's head is these days.  I have no idea how much Brian contributed as a producer on any of his solo stuff (or TWGMTR), but I think Brian's fine with all of it (with the possible exception of GIOMH, which isn't very good, IMO). 

Also, some of his band did contribute to the Imagination album.  It's where he made his first connection with Bob Lizik, Paul Mertens, Scott Bennett, and Todd Sucherman (who is married to Taylor Mills).
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 09:22:02 AM »

I happen to like the Imagination album, well, most of it anyway.  It is Adult Contemporary, for sure, but I really think that's where Brian's head is these days.  I have no idea how much Brian contributed as a producer on any of his solo stuff (or TWGMTR), but I think Brian's fine with all of it (with the possible exception of GIOMH, which isn't very good, IMO). 



Todd Sucherman (who is married to Taylor Mills).

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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 09:36:14 AM »

I happen to like the Imagination album, well, most of it anyway.  It is Adult Contemporary, for sure, but I really think that's where Brian's head is these days.

I don't know man, does TWGMTR sound like the production of a guy who has been wanting to do a "rock 'n roll" album for a decade? The big man himself said Love You is his favourite Beach Boys record too - listening to TWGMTR, I wouldn't be able to pick that by a longshot. Most of TWGMTR's production has a certain schlockiness about it that Brian's productions never had in the past, even at their most heavily orchestrated.
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 09:52:00 AM »

I would Love for him to do at least one more "Wall of sound" type cd mixed both in stereo and mono..if Amy Winehouse and Emma Bunton can do "wall of sound" type cds in this day and age then why not the master of it? just one more.
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 10:15:20 AM »

I would Love for him to do at least one more "Wall of sound" type cd mixed both in stereo and mono..if Amy Winehouse and Emma Bunton can do "wall of sound" type cds in this day and age then why not the master of it? just one more.

Right!? I'll be disappointed if his Pleasure Island album is mixed the same as all his previous albums.

I actually like the mixing on BWRG and ITKOD, but for a kickass 21st century rock and roll album recorded by the greatest American pop composer, I'd rather it be a Wall-Of-Sound experience that will blow the minds of everyone who listens.
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 11:25:05 AM »

I like Brian's music that's been released in the last 10-15 years, but I just can't listen to it. TWGMTR too. For me it's all too plasticky, MIDI-fied artificial crap. Which is a shame because it's beautiful music.

I'd like to hear all of Brian's works from the past 15 years or so re-recorded with real instruments and treated with better production.

Don't even get me started on TWGMTR. Yuck.
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 12:01:20 PM »

He's hasn't been using "fake" instruments for years (Kurzweil samples notwithstanding)!! I like the sound and production on Gershwin the best, and the vocal sound on Disney is stellar. TLOS is bone dry, that album calls for tons of echo and reverb....
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 12:08:44 PM »

I like Brian's music that's been released in the last 10-15 years, but I just can't listen to it. TWGMTR too. For me it's all too plasticky, MIDI-fied artificial crap. Which is a shame because it's beautiful music.

I'd like to hear all of Brian's works from the past 15 years or so re-recorded with real instruments and treated with better production.

Don't even get me started on TWGMTR. Yuck.

You beat me to it, Ego.

There's virtually no MIDI on any of Brian's productions from that time. More than 90 percent of it is guys playing live in a single room -- with real instruments. You may not like the keyboard samples that are very occasionally used, or all the production choices made, but that's not the same thing.
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 06:18:46 AM »

We talk about 'oh god, why isn't anyone letting Brian produce anymore, the humongous bastards, I bet they just keep him in the car with the window down a crack until he sings his vocal' and all that, but if you take Love You as the 'last' instance, Brian had an analog console with a set amount of tracks. 16? 24? He cut his teeth on 4 and 8 track machines with EQ, Reverb, and Tape Delay being his only real effects. And with Chuck Britz dealing with the technical bits.

Nowadays, modern recording equipment in the studios Brian likes gives you nigh-on infinite scope. It's all digital, you need to work with computers and specialist, gnomic software, even recording at home (and that has it's own difficulties what with the frailties of machine), you have a million and one tracks, you can treat everything and anything (and you're expected to), you can EQ everything with pinpoint frequency precision, you're encouraged to 'fix' takes with either manipulation or comping/punching in - even doubletracking is frowned upon, ADT seems to be the norm. The only way you're going to learn to do all of that on complicated, intricate software is either with a degree or specialised training, or a lot of hard work.

Brian Wilson returned to that sort of recording in his 40's. You reckon he WANTS to learn how to use Pro Tools to a professional standard? We all say 'Yeah, Message Man kicks ass', but I'd bet Scott Bennett did the majority of the techy stuff. For TWGMTR, JT has said that Brian got every musician in the same room to play the basic tracks at great expense, which was simply not done any more. It's not 1966, people. The game has changed.

What Brian does contribute to all his sessions, (except Imagination, which I try to forget) is the arrangement. He either knows what he wants or he works with his band to get something he likes. What goes on in the computer doesn't seem to interest him much, which is why Mark Linett helps on his solo stuff or Joe Thomas fucks up TWGMTR.
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 08:06:50 AM »

We talk about 'oh god, why isn't anyone letting Brian produce anymore, the humongous bastards, I bet they just keep him in the car with the window down a crack until he sings his vocal' and all that, but if you take Love You as the 'last' instance, Brian had an analog console with a set amount of tracks. 16? 24? He cut his teeth on 4 and 8 track machines with EQ, Reverb, and Tape Delay being his only real effects. And with Chuck Britz dealing with the technical bits.

Nowadays, modern recording equipment in the studios Brian likes gives you nigh-on infinite scope. It's all digital, you need to work with computers and specialist, gnomic software, even recording at home (and that has it's own difficulties what with the frailties of machine), you have a million and one tracks, you can treat everything and anything (and you're expected to), you can EQ everything with pinpoint frequency precision, you're encouraged to 'fix' takes with either manipulation or comping/punching in - even doubletracking is frowned upon, ADT seems to be the norm. The only way you're going to learn to do all of that on complicated, intricate software is either with a degree or specialised training, or a lot of hard work.

Brian Wilson returned to that sort of recording in his 40's. You reckon he WANTS to learn how to use Pro Tools to a professional standard? We all say 'Yeah, Message Man kicks ass', but I'd bet Scott Bennett did the majority of the techy stuff. For TWGMTR, JT has said that Brian got every musician in the same room to play the basic tracks at great expense, which was simply not done any more. It's not 1966, people. The game has changed.

What Brian does contribute to all his sessions, (except Imagination, which I try to forget) is the arrangement. He either knows what he wants or he works with his band to get something he likes. What goes on in the computer doesn't seem to interest him much, which is why Mark Linett helps on his solo stuff or Joe Thomas fucks up TWGMTR.


I can understand that. I guess I am more concerned with the musical production as opposed to the tech production.
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 08:33:01 AM »

Brian's hand is all over 'Sunflower' & parts of 'Surf's Up' (and of course 'Mt. Vernon' and 'Love You'), but I think Carl should get equal credit for the completion of those ...

I think 'Break Away' was the last full BW production that he really followed all the way through. And 'Friends' was the last album that really feels like a BW production.
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 08:45:12 AM »

We talk about 'oh god, why isn't anyone letting Brian produce anymore, the humongous bastards, I bet they just keep him in the car with the window down a crack until he sings his vocal' and all that, but if you take Love You as the 'last' instance, Brian had an analog console with a set amount of tracks. 16? 24? He cut his teeth on 4 and 8 track machines with EQ, Reverb, and Tape Delay being his only real effects. And with Chuck Britz dealing with the technical bits.

Nowadays, modern recording equipment in the studios Brian likes gives you nigh-on infinite scope. It's all digital, you need to work with computers and specialist, gnomic software, even recording at home (and that has it's own difficulties what with the frailties of machine), you have a million and one tracks, you can treat everything and anything (and you're expected to), you can EQ everything with pinpoint frequency precision, you're encouraged to 'fix' takes with either manipulation or comping/punching in - even doubletracking is frowned upon, ADT seems to be the norm. The only way you're going to learn to do all of that on complicated, intricate software is either with a degree or specialised training, or a lot of hard work.

Brian Wilson returned to that sort of recording in his 40's. You reckon he WANTS to learn how to use Pro Tools to a professional standard? We all say 'Yeah, Message Man kicks ass', but I'd bet Scott Bennett did the majority of the techy stuff. For TWGMTR, JT has said that Brian got every musician in the same room to play the basic tracks at great expense, which was simply not done any more. It's not 1966, people. The game has changed.

What Brian does contribute to all his sessions, (except Imagination, which I try to forget) is the arrangement. He either knows what he wants or he works with his band to get something he likes. What goes on in the computer doesn't seem to interest him much, which is why Mark Linett helps on his solo stuff or Joe Thomas fucks up TWGMTR.


The question is BW as a producer, not an engineer. He's never really been a tech person. A lot of producers don't know the ins and outs of the technology, so they have their engineer serve as a sort of translator of their ideas. Granted, the game has changed so much that nowadays the line between engineer and producer has blurred significantly due to the nature of modern day productions and how they're created, but that doesn't mean the stand alone producer is obsolete. If you're in a position like BW where you have the cachet he's got and you're recording in fully outfitted professional studios, which have their own engineers anyway, you don't really need "to learn how to use Pro Tools to a professional standard."

Also, IF Brian Wilson wanted to cut records today like they were in his heyday (let's say for reasons of comfort and familiarity), i strongly believe he could get his way. He already has his current day "Wrecking Crew" tracking 'live' in the same room. We have people on this board who record entirely in the analog domain on 4 and 8 track machines. It's not this suddenly arcane thing the way a lot of people make it out to be. His camp would probably try to dissuade him from doing it the old way, but if he really wanted to, it wouldn't be unfeasible.
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 09:35:54 AM »

Brian's hand is all over 'Sunflower' & parts of 'Surf's Up' (and of course 'Mt. Vernon' and 'Love You'), but I think Carl should get equal credit for the completion of those ...

I think 'Break Away' was the last full BW production that he really followed all the way through. And 'Friends' was the last album that really feels like a BW production.


Last two 'full' Brian productions were 'He Come Down' and to a lesser extent 'Mess of help'
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 11:14:16 AM »

Brian's hand is all over 'Sunflower' & parts of 'Surf's Up' (and of course 'Mt. Vernon' and 'Love You'), but I think Carl should get equal credit for the completion of those ...

I think 'Break Away' was the last full BW production that he really followed all the way through. And 'Friends' was the last album that really feels like a BW production.


Last two 'full' Brian productions were 'He Come Down' and to a lesser extent 'Mess of help'

I'd like to know the full story of the recording of The Beach Boys Love You. But, until I do, I consider 15 Big Ones the last Brian Wilson-produced album, and, other than the lead vocals, a production I like very, very much.
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 12:39:48 PM »

The 'brian didn't really produce this' chat pisses me off. I'm prepared to accept it's a bw production if that's what the credits say. If they say it's a co-production then he co-produced. Very uncharitable to say otherwise. It might not sound like a 1966 production but it's not 1966.
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 02:08:18 PM »

The 'brian didn't really produce this' chat pisses me off. I'm prepared to accept it's a bw production if that's what the credits say. If they say it's a co-production then he co-produced. Very uncharitable to say otherwise. It might not sound like a 1966 production but it's not 1966.

The credits are misleading or flat-out wrong in some cases.
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 02:16:05 PM »

It's all digital, you need to work with computers and specialist, gnomic software

What's "gnomic software", does it speed your voice up or something?
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 02:33:08 PM »

The 'brian didn't really produce this' chat pisses me off. I'm prepared to accept it's a bw production if that's what the credits say. If they say it's a co-production then he co-produced. Very uncharitable to say otherwise. It might not sound like a 1966 production but it's not 1966.

The credits are misleading or flat-out wrong in some cases.
How can you be certain? Some people seem to think Brian is incapable of producing an album. I don't buy it.
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 02:40:13 PM »

The 'brian didn't really produce this' chat pisses me off. I'm prepared to accept it's a bw production if that's what the credits say. If they say it's a co-production then he co-produced. Very uncharitable to say otherwise. It might not sound like a 1966 production but it's not 1966.

The credits are misleading or flat-out wrong in some cases.
How can you be certain? Some people seem to think Brian is incapable of producing an album. I don't buy it.

To add to the confusion. The role of producer can be defined in different ways. Do we mean engineering, mixing, programming, or just overseeing. I don't think he's capable of being the all inclusive producer he was in his prime, but if producer means having all ideas run past him, then yes, he still produces.
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 02:51:30 PM »

TLOS is bone dry, that album calls for tons of echo and reverb....

That's exactly why I like the sound of that album. It's really nice to hear Brian's voice mostly dry, compressed to hades and right up front in the mix. It just sounds fitting for him at this age. Double-tracked Brian with tons of reverb nowadays occasionally begins to take on this "Aged man shouting in a cave" characteristic. It's just due to his voice aging and the change in technology/recording methods, don't get me wrong, it sounded great on the 60s productions. Trying to replicate that with an entirely different voice and digital technology doesn't work nearly as well. Just me. The Gershwin album sounds great, too.

Pretty sure Love You was the last thing we can say is a full-on Brian Wilson production with absolute confidence, the only non-Brian element of it is Carl mixing it in stereo because Brian couldn't, but that's nothing to do with production. The waters get murkier on more recent productions. I really feel the truth is somewhere between the label saying "PRODUCED BY BRIAN WILSON." and fanboys saying he was too busy ordering steak to listen to anything and it's 100% someone else's work.
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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 03:21:08 PM »

TLOS is bone dry, that album calls for tons of echo and reverb....

That's exactly why I like the sound of that album. It's really nice to hear Brian's voice mostly dry, compressed to hades and right up front in the mix. It just sounds fitting for him at this age. Double-tracked Brian with tons of reverb nowadays occasionally begins to take on this "Aged man shouting in a cave" characteristic. It's just due to his voice aging and the change in technology/recording methods, don't get me wrong, it sounded great on the 60s productions. Trying to replicate that with an entirely different voice and digital technology doesn't work nearly as well. Just me. The Gershwin album sounds great, too..

Meh - I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the way he sounds on Disney, and that wasn't even two years ago. It's not just a dry vs. wet issue (that's what she said?), but how Brian's vocals are treated makes a difference. Gershwin and Disney - his vox sound vibrant, fresh, and youthful. I think the bone dry sound on TLOS makes him sound very, very old. I agree that it is cool to hear his vocals treated differently for a change, but I wish it wasn't on that album, just because of personal preference, I guess.

On the other hand, mess with his vocals too much and you get the over-autotuned/processed mess that you hear on some tracks on Imagination and TWGMTR. (He sounds pretty good on Summer's Gone, though).

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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2013, 03:21:15 PM »

The 'brian didn't really produce this' chat pisses me off. I'm prepared to accept it's a bw production if that's what the credits say. If they say it's a co-production then he co-produced. Very uncharitable to say otherwise. It might not sound like a 1966 production but it's not 1966.

The credits are misleading or flat-out wrong in some cases.
How can you be certain? Some people seem to think Brian is incapable of producing an album. I don't buy it.

Brian is completely capable of producing an album, and probably has been the entire time. I just don't think he likes finishing them, and I don't think he has been particularly interested in finishing an album since Smile, though I do believe he saw Smiley, WH and Friends through, as well as 'Break Away' and some of the summer-of-'68 recordings. The 'Produced by The Beach Boys' credit was an intentional thing. which leads me to ...

According to label credits, "Good Vibrations" and "Heroes and Villains" were Produced by The Beach Boys, "Never Learn Not To Love" was written by Dennis Wilson, "Susie Cincinatti" was Produced by Brian Wilson, "Hey Little Tomboy" was produced by Al Jardine & Ron Altbach, "When Girls Get Together" was produced by Bruce Johnston, etc. The production credits in the liner notes of 'Ten Years of Harmony' sometimes differ from the original LP credits. and on and on and on
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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2013, 03:26:14 PM »

TLOS is bone dry, that album calls for tons of echo and reverb....

That's exactly why I like the sound of that album. It's really nice to hear Brian's voice mostly dry, compressed to hades and right up front in the mix. It just sounds fitting for him at this age. Double-tracked Brian with tons of reverb nowadays occasionally begins to take on this "Aged man shouting in a cave" characteristic. It's just due to his voice aging and the change in technology/recording methods, don't get me wrong, it sounded great on the 60s productions. Trying to replicate that with an entirely different voice and digital technology doesn't work nearly as well. Just me. The Gershwin album sounds great, too.

Pretty sure Love You was the last thing we can say is a full-on Brian Wilson production with absolute confidence, the only non-Brian element of it is Carl mixing it in stereo because Brian couldn't, but that's nothing to do with production. The waters get murkier on more recent productions. I really feel the truth is somewhere between the label saying "PRODUCED BY BRIAN WILSON." and fanboys saying he was too busy ordering steak to listen to anything and it's 100% someone else's work.

I do feel Love You is a true BW production, but you do get the sense of something akin to him 'creating on command', and not completely seeing it through. I kind of feel that 'Adult Child' was more of a true return-to-form.
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