TWGMTR Follow-up

[The Heartical Don]

More guitars, please.

Guitars are on the way out.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

More guitars, please.

Guitars are on the way out.

Someone better tell Dick Rowe

[The Heartical Don]

More guitars, please.

Guitars are on the way out.

Someone better tell Dick Rowe

 

[The Shift]

It is the terrible misunderstanding of the digital age that tiny imperfections are unacceptable. Actually, they add to the human magic in the best music. In classical stuff, it's no different. Pianists that strive primarily for total perfection are plain boring. At best the become the idols for those that think perfection is possible in conveying emotion. Blatantly untrue, this. The boring yuppies of our time.

Brian knew this. That's why he worked so fast and put creativity and emotion way above perfection. It's part of his genius.

Most of today's artists and producers alike suffer from the perfection syndrome. And modern production techniques and tricks (and that includes 'brickwalling', do you hear me, all you producer-fools?) actually ruin recordings instead of improving them.

Hear-hear…   I realised this while watching Lindisfarne at Knebworth in 1980. No-one's going to claim those guys were pitch-perfect but their harmonies were stunning, precisely because of those wavers and imperfections. The blend was overwhelming. If you get chance have a listen to their early albums. Folk rock harmony at its best!

[The Heartical Don]

It is the terrible misunderstanding of the digital age that tiny imperfections are unacceptable. Actually, they add to the human magic in the best music. In classical stuff, it's no different. Pianists that strive primarily for total perfection are plain boring. At best the become the idols for those that think perfection is possible in conveying emotion. Blatantly untrue, this. The boring yuppies of our time.

Brian knew this. That's why he worked so fast and put creativity and emotion way above perfection. It's part of his genius.

Most of today's artists and producers alike suffer from the perfection syndrome. And modern production techniques and tricks (and that includes 'brickwalling', do you hear me, all you producer-fools?) actually ruin recordings instead of improving them.

Hear-hear…   I realised this while watching Lindisfarne at Knebworth in 1980. No-one's going to claim those guys were pitch-perfect but their harmonies were stunning, precisely because of those wavers and imperfections. The blend was overwhelming. If you get chance have a listen to their early albums. Folk rock harmony at its best!

Thanks, John! I will investigate Lindisfarne for sure!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Lindisfarne are great, but they're mostly remembered for this. A legacy destroying move of mykeluvian proportions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1urq4Vb0XM

[The Shift]

I don't even need to click on that… that's post-Hull era.

The Christmas concerts are back btw…

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Sorry John, I just think Don needed to know.

[The Shift]

Okay, fair-dos  - just don't let on about Father Christmas okay?

[rab2591]

- no forced attempts at the 1965 sound formula

I can hear it already: We've got beaches in mi-DROP THE BASS

[halblaineisgood]

.

[SMiLE Brian]

- no forced attempts at the 1965 sound formula

I can hear it already: We've got beaches in mi-DROP THE BASS

Somebody should have Brian review dubstep videos on youtube like Van Dyke did...

[rab2591]

- no forced attempts at the 1965 sound formula

I can hear it already: We've got beaches in mi-DROP THE BASS

Somebody should have Brian review dubstep videos on youtube like Van Dyke did...

That reminds me: Whatever happened with that Skrillex & Van Dyke Parks collaboration? I was looking forward to hearing that but nothing has been released

[The Heartical Don]

Pianists that strive primarily for total perfection are plain boring.

I'm curious. Care to name a few?

For me, Lang Lang counts in here, as does Andras Schiff in places. He can be very good, but his Goldbergs are plain boring and mechanical.

[The Shift]

What about Bobby Crush?

[Mendota Heights]

- No autotune.

- I'd love to see a themed album...an album that tells a story.

- I want cover-art that would make people want to buy the album....nothing drab. Also, ditch the 80s Beach Boys font - make it something hip.

- One single that would mindblow the whole world - sheen production, beautiful harmonies, stunning chords....something that would set the world alight with Beach Boys pandemonium again.

- No autotune.

- Do whatever you have to do to make it sound vintage 60s Wall-Of-Sound....that would be the tops.

+1.

Benny Andersson should produce it.

[bonnevillemariner]

I agree with a lot of the ideas posed already.  I would be strongly against quantifying how many leads each member gets, and I also say screw the democracy notion.  I want a coherent, solid album that balances commerciality with creativity, and that doesn't require the casual fan to understand the nuances of BB history to appreciate.  If achieving such an album means people get screwed out of leads, so be it.  A few other points:

-I'm totally cool with archival fly-ins.  Loved Al's finished version of "Waves of Love" with Carl.  If it can be seamlessly done, do it.

-I'm also cool with autotune as long as it's properly implemented.

-Lose the 90's echo-ey, Kokomo-ey sound.

-If they can get Brian's voice to sound like it does on TWGMTR, I'd give deference to him on most leads.  If Brian's voice sounds like it does on TLOS, I'd be okay hearing less of him.

-More Al all around.  His voice is still amazing.

Outside this list and on a general note, I'm okay with remaking songs that were never finished, could have been done better, or that sound like crap.  I really like the remake of "Do It Again" for example.  The original released track sounds horribly produced/mastered.  Like a copy of a copy of a copy of somebody's worn out cassette tape.  I wish the production value of songs like "This Whole World" were higher.  I'd love the Boys to re-record everything but Carl's lead, then extend that a capella outtro.  For those tracks whose album incarnations are perfect (GOK, etc.) remaking/tweaking would be blasphemous.  But for the stuff that would be epic were it not crappily mastered, I'm all for it.

[rab2591]

Benny Andersson should produce it.

Agreed!

[phirnis]

bonnevillemariner, in which way do you feel "This Whole World" doesn't satisfy? For me it's easily one of the group's most accomplished productions ever and I wouldn't want to change a single thing about it. I respect your opinion and it intrigues me, so please feel free to elaborate!

[The Shift]

I agree with a lot of the ideas posed already.  I would be strongly against quantifying how many leads each member gets, and I also say screw the democracy notion.  I want a coherent, solid album that balances commerciality with creativity, and that doesn't require the casual fan to understand the nuances of BB history to appreciate.  If achieving such an album means people get screwed out of leads, so be it.  A few other points:

-I'm totally cool with archival fly-ins.  Loved Al's finished version of "Waves of Love" with Carl.  If it can be seamlessly done, do it.

-I'm also cool with autotune as long as it's properly implemented.

-Lose the 90's echo-ey, Kokomo-ey sound.

-If they can get Brian's voice to sound like it does on TWGMTR, I'd give deference to him on most leads.  If Brian's voice sounds like it does on TLOS, I'd be okay hearing less of him.

-More Al all around.  His voice is still amazing.

Outside this list and on a general note, I'm okay with remaking songs that were never finished, could have been done better, or that sound like crap.  I really like the remake of "Do It Again" for example.  The original released track sounds horribly produced/mastered.  Like a copy of a copy of a copy of somebody's worn out cassette tape.  I wish the production value of songs like "This Whole World" were higher.  I'd love the Boys to re-record everything but Carl's lead, then extend that a capella outtro.  For those tracks whose album incarnations are perfect (GOK, etc.) remaking/tweaking would be blasphemous.  But for the stuff that would be epic were it not crappily mastered, I'm all for it.

At last, a post with which I can agree.  Mostly.

If a song was badly mastered in the past, remaster it for a compilation/boxset/re-issue, don't re-record it.

What's in the past is in the past – leave it there.

[bonnevillemariner]

bonnevillemariner, in which way do you feel "This Whole World" doesn't satisfy? For me it's easily one of the group's most accomplished productions ever and I wouldn't want to change a single thing about it. I respect your opinion and it intrigues me, so please feel free to elaborate!

Well I'm not a musician, nor do I have any expertise whatsoever in production or mastering, so please forgive any naivety in my explanation.  TWW is one of my favorite BB tracks.  But to my ears the production is very....(searching for the word)... thin.  The bg vocals seem like an afterthought and pale in comparison to the lush stacks of Pet Sounds and Smile.  In fact, the bg vocals seem almost like a parody of classic BB harmonies.  They're almost anti-lush (again, to my ears).

Also there's something with the tapes that when certain vocals come in, there's a high-pitched hissing sound.  Was this sloppy recording/production?  Not a big deal, but I find myself thinking 'did somebody not notice this?'  That hissing sound is prominent in my favorite part of the track-- the outtro.  

And speaking of the outtro, it fades out way, way too prematurely.  What a beautiful blend!

So being that I don't care for the quality of the background harmonies, the hiss bugs me, and the overall quality of the recording is sub-par, I'd jump for joy at a remake.  With one condition: that Carl's lead remain intact.  I wouldn't like a remake with a different lead.  If that lead is isolated somewhere and could be laid over a new backing track and bg vocals, I'd be in heaven.   I don't care much for Brian's current voice in the lower ranges (and I wish he'd just stop singing words with the letter 's' altogether), but in the upper ranges and wordless vocals he's still outstanding.  I think he, Al, Mike, Bruce and Jeff could hit the bg harmonies for TWW out of the park! And of course while you're at it, you'd have to extend that outtro.  

BTW, Do it Again is probably the only song I can think of so far that the remake is far superior to the released track.  But I'm open to the possibility that remakes of others could surpass the originals.

[bossaroo]

- no forced attempts at the 1965 sound formula

I can hear it already: We've got beaches in mi-DROP THE BASS

Somebody should have Brian review dubstep videos on youtube like Van Dyke did...

where can one see this?

[Micha]

-If they can get Brian's voice to sound like it does on TWGMTR, I'd give deference to him on most leads.  If Brian's voice sounds like it does on TLOS, I'd be okay hearing less of him.

Really? I listened to TLOS recently, and think he sang better there than on TWGMTR.

I'm with you though on "More Al all around".

[Smilin Ed H]

Re: Lindisfarne.  Let's not forget that it was Hull's idea for the party songs album and to team up with Gazza.  A talent on the way out a while before his death, unfortunately.

[Lonely Summer]

Definitely no autotune. If the guys should like shite these days, let it all hang out, ala Love You. And no more Joe Thomas. That guy thinks Brian/Beach Boys are A/C; I want Brian to get into his SMiLe zone again, burning wood in the studio, falling into his French horn, and just general chaos. Maybe slip some LSD into his coffee, because we all know when Brian is off his rocker is when he makes his best music. Mike and Bruce don't even have to be there if it bothers them to much, they can take a vacation in Kokomo.