Is Bruce an original member? No? Well, Mike's website claims he is.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Nine pages of this?

A most reasonable plaint. Elementary math will show that Bruce cannot be an original member.

Yes AGD, you clearly answered the question 9 pages ago. But here it is page 10.  Didn't mean to start a Bruce slagging contest but was being facetious as Mike's band page states he is an original member.  

But I have to say there has been some really funny stuff in this thread. And we have to do something till you give us some dirt on the MIC box.  Then this thread will sink like a stone.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Nine pages of this?

A most reasonable plaint. Elementary math will show that Bruce cannot be an original member.

Andrew, i thought you were British. Over here, it's maths, with an 's'. It's only in the US they say 'math'. Blimey, what next? Missing the 'u' out of humour?

[AndrewHickey]

Just to get back to the original point, rather than the whole "Mike is the Devil and Bruce his representative on Earth" thing this has deteriorated into:

No, of course Bruce isn't an 'original member', but at the same time it's not like the claim is that different from those made by other bands. I saw The Grandmothers in the mid-90s, and they were billed as "featuring Don Preston, Bunk Gardner and Jimmy Carl Black of the original Mothers Of Invention" -- Preston and Gardner joined for the Mothers' second album.

Similarly, last week I saw The Magic Band. The promotion for that gig, which you can see at http://bandonthewall.org/events/3824/ , says "Sharing the vision of celebrating the music of the late Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart), original members Denny “Feelers Rebo” Walley, Mark “Rockette Morton” Boston, and John “Drumbo” French share the stage with guitarist Eric Klerks and drummer Craig Bunch to re-visit the classic Beefheart tunes with renewed fervor."

Drumbo joined the Magic Band for their first album, but didn't play on their first single. Rockette Morton only joined for the third album, Trout Mask Replica, and Denny Walley didn't join the band until 1975, ten years after they started, and only stayed in for eighteen months, and didn't play on any albums released while Beefheart was alive.

While Bruce definitely isn't an "original Beach Boy" in the sense most of us would use it, that of being in the band from the beginning, that kind of phrasing seems to be used now when advertising 60s bands to distinguish people who were on at least some of the records the audience will remember from people who weren't. It may be an inaccurate way of putting it, but I don't think it's especially dishonest.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Core member is easily defined, and Bruce is certainly that. However, 'original' is subject to at least fifty shades of gray.

[drbeachboy]

AGD, you answered the question on the first page. To go on this long, was strickly to start a hate thread on Bruce.

[Mendota Heights]

Nine pages of this?

A most reasonable plaint. Elementary math will show that Bruce cannot be an original member.

Agree. If Bruce is an original member then this page, page 10, could be the original page of this thread.

[filledeplage]

Nine pages of this?

A most reasonable plaint. Elementary math will show that Bruce cannot be an original member.

Agree. If Bruce is an original member then this page, page 10, could be the original page of this thread.

Jeff Foskett intro'd them during C50 as "originals!"

Good enough for me!   

[Mendota Heights]

Jeff Foskett intro'd them during C50 as "originals!"

Good enough for me!  

The 3 times I have seen Brian solo Jeff has claimed "Brian has written every song performed here tonight", when obviously he did not write Barbara Ann, Sloop John B and others.

[filledeplage]

Jeff Foskett intro'd them during C50 as "originals!"

Good enough for me!  

The 3 times I have seen Brian solo Jeff has claimed "Brian has written every song performed here tonight", when obviously he did not write Barbara Ann, Sloop John B and others.

In jest! 

He started in 1965...

Andrew is correct.

[Mendota Heights]

He started in 1965...

Andrew is correct.

Everyone who claims Bruce started in 1965 is correct.

[clack]

Wasn't it not until  1967, with 'Wild Honey', that Bruce became an official, credited member of the band? If we claim that 1965 Bruce was a Beach Boy, couldn't we then also claim that 1969 Ed Carter was a Beach Boy?

[Mikie]

If Bruce didn't join the band until 1965, that doesn't make him an "original" member like the other guys who started with the inception of the band, does it?  Let's get a clue, people!  Bruce sure ain't a "founding" member either!

[SMiLE Brian]

This thread is like reinventing the wheel....

[Mikie]

Let's milk it for all it's worth.  What else?

[SMiLE Brian]

How many hats do Mike and Bruce own?


But seriously, Bruce is nowhere near an original member.

[Shady]

Mike and Bruce have one hat, it's a beach boys hat with many color variations

[Mike's Beard]

J
No, of course Bruce isn't an 'original member', but at the same time it's not like the claim is that different from those made by other bands. I saw The Grandmothers in the mid-90s, and they were billed as "featuring Don Preston, Bunk Gardner and Jimmy Carl Black of the original Mothers Of Invention" -- Preston and Gardner joined for the Mothers' second album.

Not to derail, but they always seem to refer to every line up before Frank briefly retired the name in 1969 as "the original Mothers of Invention". There were what, 6 - 7 line ups between Freak Out! to Weasels Ripped My Flesh?

[Theydon Bois]

Not to derail, but they always seem to refer to every line up before Frank briefly retired the name in 1969 as "the original Mothers of Invention". There were what, 6 - 7 line ups between Freak Out! to Weasels Ripped My Flesh?

Line-ups of the "original MOI" extend into double figures if you count stage line-ups that didn't necessarily appear on record.  (By these criteria, Van Dyke Parks was an original Mother too.)

[Disney Boy (1985)]

To those complaining re the length of the this thread - just stop reading it. Me, i've found this one of the most enjoyable threads in a long time!

[Mike's Beard]

Not to derail, but they always seem to refer to every line up before Frank briefly retired the name in 1969 as "the original Mothers of Invention". There were what, 6 - 7 line ups between Freak Out! to Weasels Ripped My Flesh?

Line-ups of the "original MOI" extend into double figures if you count stage line-ups that didn't necessarily appear on record.  (By these criteria, Van Dyke Parks was an original Mother too.)

True, after I made my post I thought to myself "I majorly underguessed how many Mother line ups there were".

[Pretty Funky]

As Bruce joined in 65 after the formative surf years, should he be credited with as much 'Beach' as the 61ers and is his surfing today at 70 some attempt to readdress the issue?  

[KittyKat]

Bruce was already in the surf music scene as one of the people behind the Rip Chords, so he comes by the surfing thing naturally. I'm pretty sure he's been surfing since he was a young guy, more than Mike Love has.

I did once look up the Rip Chords on All Music Guide, and discovered that Bruce didn't have many songwriting credits on their albums, in spite of being one of the bands masterminds/producers/singers. He co-wrote a few songs with Terry Melcher, but many songs of the Chords were from outsiders or written by Terry Melcher without Bruce being involved. So, I don't think Bruce was ever that much of a songwriter.

[Mikie]

Yeah, when I think of Bruce, I think of a surfing Doris Day.


Here's a guy who's come out in the press for years being so supportive of Brian and his songs, then he says this:

"I'd swap a lot of the Beach Boys songs for just one 'Michelle.'"

Geez.

[drbeachboy]

Yeah, when I think of Bruce, I think of a surfing Doris Day.


Here's a guy who's come out in the press for years being so supportive of Brian and his songs, then he says this:

"I'd swap a lot of the Beach Boys songs for just one 'Michelle.'"

Geez.

Mikie, when did Bruce say that? Man, that's damn near Beach Boy treason.

[Mikie]

I don't know what year or where he said it. Came from a Beach Boys 'Quotes' page. Typical contridictory statement. Here's a guy who said on the BBBritain forum that if there were ever a Beach Boys reunion, that he'd sit 5 rows back in the audience and just watch. Didn't happen, huh?