The misconceptions of the 1972-post output...

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I don't like "Let's Put Our Hearts Together"...is that offensive?

Not in the slightest.

Reading it from the start, this thread is lose/lose for Love You fans- a non stop ear bashing and demands of explanation from a few die hard haters and then a 'whoa cool it' when driven to some slightly stronger terminology after pages and pages of 'I like it and don't really care if you don't.

Wish that box set would come out! And be full of re-records of Pet Sounds, with some nice fat synth bass all over it.

[Dancing Bear]

The thing that pisses me off about this Love You polarization is that you MUST either love or hate the album. Isn't it possible to love a good part of it, like some of it and think that a few tracks are dire?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Thank you Bear! I love much of the album, but think Love is a Woman to be one of the worst songs in the entire catalogue.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I don't like "Let's Put Our Hearts Together"...is that offensive?

Not in the slightest.

Reading it from the start, this thread is lose/lose for Love You fans- a non stop ear bashing and demands of explanation from a few die hard haters and then a 'whoa cool it' when driven to some slightly stronger terminology after pages and pages of 'I like it and don't really care if you don't.

Beautifully put Bergen.

Mike, what's offensive is this.......

I just never will understand the love here for the train wreck that is Love You.

Can you see how a dismissive statement like this puts me immediately on the defensive? And when you reply to the afforementioned quote with.....

I hear you.

Then it predisposes me to not listen to a word you say. On principle.

I'm all for debate, and I'm interested in the reasons why people like / don't like this album, and I'm very interested in the issues it raises towards peoples perceptions of mental illness / creativity / humour. It could be very revelatory. However, outright dismissal of people's subjective tastes are not really conducive to an intelligent discussion

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I personally just read it as one person stating they don't like it, and another agreeing. Now, if someone had said that 'anybody who likes it has poor taste in music' or something like that, it'd be different

[Nicko1234]

The thing that pisses me off about this Love You polarization is that you MUST either love or hate the album. Isn't it possible to love a good part of it, like some of it and think that a few tracks are dire?

Exactly.

[Nicko1234]

I personally just read it as one person stating they don't like it, and another agreeing. Now, if someone had said that 'anybody who likes it has poor taste in music' or something like that, it'd be different

Again agreed.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I personally just read it as one person stating they don't like it, and another agreeing. Now, if someone had said that 'anybody who likes it has poor taste in music' or something like that, it'd be different

For the life of me I just don't get how you think that.

[Nicko1234]

For the life of me I just don't get how you think that.

I think you are being a tad oversensitive...

'I will never understand...' is a commonly used expression after all.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I can think of many commonly used expressions right now 

Language is a powerful thing, full of many subtleties and sub texts. The problem with solely text based exchanges are, without the clues that body language gives, a lot of things are very open to interpretation.

I could pick that "train wreck" quote apart, but you're still free to interpret it as you want, as am I.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

For the life of me I just don't get how you think that.

I think you are being a tad oversensitive...

'I will never understand...' is a commonly used expression after all.

Yes it is. For instance, I will never understand why the Beatles are the most popular pop/rock band in history, and why many people worship them above all other artists. That said, I understand that that is my opinion, and one that other people do not have to share. And hey, one man's train wreck is another man's...um...minor fender-bender?

[Lonely Summer]

I know there are a lot of fans who don't like outsiders tinkering with Brian's works, but if the end result feels like a completed, polished production - i.e, BW88 or TLOS - then I will take those anyday over Love You. There are parts of Love You that are just painful to hear - Love is a Woman being example #1. I quite like parts of the album, but that grating synth sound gets tiresome after a few tracks. There was definitely some potential in the songwriting, but the record itself feels like "okay, this is the best Brian could crank out at the moment".

[Nicko1234]

I quite like parts of the album, but that grating synth sound gets tiresome after a few tracks. There was definitely some potential in the songwriting, but the record itself feels like "okay, this is the best Brian could crank out at the moment".

I think Bruce commented on that in an interview a while ago. He stated that Brian used the synth because it meant he could get the recording over with as quickly as possible because he didn't really want to be there.

[Smilin Ed H]

I don't think I have any misconceptions about the post-72 (73?) output. The gems are few and far between. I've warmed to 15 BO over the years, but this is relatively speaking; I've always liked Love You; never cared for the bulk of MIU, a directionless album; always liked about half of LA; not cared for most of what came later (actively disliking most of Still Cruisin' SIP and the country album), until the new album, which is about half decent with two or three outstanding tracks. If you read about what they were working on and take the boots into account, it's clear MIU and LA could've been more interesting albums, but by that time, the emphasis was again on summery pop and with the Wilsons largely hampered by personal and psychological issues ramped up by drug/alcohol intake, Mike and Al took the band in a different direction.  What makes this all the more unfortunate, is that Love and Jardine seemed to have had songs that would've improved both MIU and LA, but preferred to go for a kinda cheesy rendition of the classic sound.  

As for the solo work, the milestone is POB, which, of course, is also the millstone around everyone else's neck because no-one has surpassed it. Carl's stuff is MOR AOR at worst (and a lot of it isn't great, let's face it); Mike's released stuff is MOR; Al's (when it fiiiiiinally appeared) had some interesting stuff paired with some ghastly stuff and disappointed too many people (not me, however) because it wasn't full of new songs; Brian's output (taking BWPS out of the equation) has been hit and miss, but those hits and misses have largely been on the same album. Of the three proper albums, hate the production though I do, BW88 has the best bunch of original songs; TLOS has some outstanding moments and others, like the neanderthal Going Home, that make me despair; GIOMH has two or three good songs swamped by awful arrangements and awful production and they're cast away on an island in a sea of crap. Gershwin, I quite like (sound's good anyway); Disney, I have a problem with because it's Disney and, these days at least, has desperately cloying associations; the Christmas album has one outstanding new tune - but it's a Christmas album and that sort of stuff doesn't work for me. With the Christmas, Gershwin and Disney albums is the added feeling that Brian has become a franchise. What next: Brian sings Pete Seeger?

Then we have the problem of the voice. There are plenty of singers who don't sing as well as BW and no-one gives a sh*t, but this is BW and you kind of expect more. Even now. Aside from his bass, Mike's vocals, of course, have been thin and reedy for some time. When I listen to recordings of the C50 tour, his vocals make me cringe more than Brian's, but perhaps I'm being easy on the big guy because I've seen him several times over the last few years and know when he's really off. There are plenty of people on this board who would like his output had the other Boys contributed vocals, but then they'd be autotuned and we'd be swamped by 'experts' (who only found out about the process the day before) banging on about it in every post...

[MBE]

I don't like "Let's Put Our Hearts Together"...is that offensive?

Not in the slightest.

Reading it from the start, this thread is lose/lose for Love You fans- a non stop ear bashing and demands of explanation from a few die hard haters and then a 'whoa cool it' when driven to some slightly stronger terminology after pages and pages of 'I like it and don't really care if you don't.

Beautifully put Bergen.

Mike, what's offensive is this.......

I just never will understand the love here for the train wreck that is Love You.

Can you see how a dismissive statement like this puts me immediately on the defensive?

Why would someone finding an album to be a mistake, or even a disaster, make you feel dismissed? I read it as nothing but sincere confusion over the popularity of the project.
And when you reply to the afforementioned quote with.....

I hear you.

Then it predisposes me to not listen to a word you say. On principle.
No problem to me, but I fail to see what principle you are standing up for. I agreed with what I took it to mean, which was not what you are getting from it

I'm all for debate, and I'm interested in the reasons why people like / don't like this album, and I'm very interested in the issues it raises towards peoples perceptions of mental illness / creativity / humour. It could be very revelatory. However, outright dismissal of people's subjective tastes are not really conducive to an intelligent discussion

. I fail to recall ever saying that I "dismiss" the views of those who like different albums or songs than me. I don't see anyone knocking you for liking it actually, nor should they.

[Cabinessenceking]

I don't think I have any misconceptions about the post-72 (73?) output. The gems are few and far between. I've warmed to 15 BO over the years, but this is relatively speaking; I've always liked Love You; never cared for the bulk of MIU, a directionless album; always liked about half of LA; not cared for most of what came later (actively disliking most of Still Cruisin' SIP and the country album), until the new album, which is about half decent with two or three outstanding tracks. If you read about what they were working on and take the boots into account, it's clear MIU and LA could've been more interesting albums, but by that time, the emphasis was again on summery pop and with the Wilsons largely hampered by personal and psychological issues ramped up by drug/alcohol intake, Mike and Al took the band in a different direction.  What makes this all the more unfortunate, is that Love and Jardine seemed to have had songs that would've improved both MIU and LA, but preferred to go for a kinda cheesy rendition of the classic sound.  

As for the solo work, the milestone is POB, which, of course, is also the millstone around everyone else's neck because no-one has surpassed it. Carl's stuff is MOR AOR at worst (and a lot of it isn't great, let's face it); Mike's released stuff is MOR; Al's (when it fiiiiiinally appeared) had some interesting stuff paired with some ghastly stuff and disappointed too many people (not me, however) because it wasn't full of new songs; Brian's output (taking BWPS out of the equation) has been hit and miss, but those hits and misses have largely been on the same album. Of the three proper albums, hate the production though I do, BW88 has the best bunch of original songs; TLOS has some outstanding moments and others, like the neanderthal Going Home, that make me despair; GIOMH has two or three good songs swamped by awful arrangements and awful production and they're cast away on an island in a sea of crap. Gershwin, I quite like (sound's good anyway); Disney, I have a problem with because it's Disney and, these days at least, has desperately cloying associations; the Christmas album has one outstanding new tune - but it's a Christmas album and that sort of stuff doesn't work for me. With the Christmas, Gershwin and Disney albums is the added feeling that Brian has become a franchise. What next: Brian sings Pete Seeger?

Then we have the problem of the voice. There are plenty of singers who don't sing as well as BW and no-one gives a sh*t, but this is BW and you kind of expect more. Even now. Aside from his bass, Mike's vocals, of course, have been thin and reedy for some time. When I listen to recordings of the C50 tour, his vocals make me cringe more than Brian's, but perhaps I'm being easy on the big guy because I've seen him several times over the last few years and know when he's really off. There are plenty of people on this board who would like his output had the other Boys contributed vocals, but then they'd be autotuned and we'd be swamped by 'experts' (who only found out about the process the day before) banging on about it in every post...

pretty solid analysis imo!
tbh I cringe too much listening the C50 youtube clips out there, there is always something not right in the vocals, and it's generally Brian and often Mike. The others I cannot tell since Jeff is always mixed too high (though I understand this is to make the overall singing less cringe worthy).
Sometimes Brian has a good day and sings pretty well, but most often it would seem that is not the case and the singing can be a cringe experience. Still great to see/hear him and the rest anyhow.

Tbh the songs Brian wrote back then can only be sung by the very best singers in their apex of life. Trying to sing anything similar after 40-50 years and a helluva lot of dope and the results are quite predictable.

[phirnis]

I don't think I have any misconceptions about the post-72 (73?) output. The gems are few and far between. I've warmed to 15 BO over the years, but this is relatively speaking; I've always liked Love You; never cared for the bulk of MIU, a directionless album; always liked about half of LA; not cared for most of what came later (actively disliking most of Still Cruisin' SIP and the country album), until the new album, which is about half decent with two or three outstanding tracks. If you read about what they were working on and take the boots into account, it's clear MIU and LA could've been more interesting albums, but by that time, the emphasis was again on summery pop and with the Wilsons largely hampered by personal and psychological issues ramped up by drug/alcohol intake, Mike and Al took the band in a different direction.  What makes this all the more unfortunate, is that Love and Jardine seemed to have had songs that would've improved both MIU and LA, but preferred to go for a kinda cheesy rendition of the classic sound.  

I like your overall analysis but to me the Light Album hardly sounds like "summery pop" at all and neither is Mike's "Sumahama" (like it or not) anywhere near a cheesy rendition of their classic sound. On the contrary I think that after MIU they did realize (for a short moment, that is) that hey should probably try something other than that and go for a different sound this time around. Anyway, I see your point and for the most part I tend to agree! Imo things really went wrong as soon as they realized the LA approach did not really work either (at least in terms of commercial success; artistically I think it's their last great LP ever).

[MBE]

Hey there were a few nice posts between (Stephen Newcombe) and myself where we understood each other on here. Where did they go? Removing them makes us look far more combative than we are.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Yes Mike, I think they got lost in the downtime. I think we left it that  its easy to misunderstand one another in a text based exchange, and I think I conceded I may have been overreacting (very unlike me!).

We had a text based hug and all was rosy again 

[Smilin Ed H]

Yes, I was being a little unfair towards LA - though they did have access to more, uh, interesting songs that they decided not to use.  Mind you, they also had Calendar Girl... Glad they gave that one a miss.  As it stands, LA was there last collection of decent material before TWGMTR, though a lot of that is down to Dennis' writing and singing. After that, the good stuff is few and far between.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I love Love You for the fact it's pure, undiluted BW, i.e he went in and laid down all these synth parts and the arrangements have his unmistakeable stamp all over them.

Ummmmmmmmmm... I have some news for you, and it's not good. Carl did a lot of, ah, 'polishing' to Brian's original tracks. I'd say what we hear is maybe 60% BW.

[Myk Luhv]

Do you mean he half-asses it and Carl came along to finish up half-baked songs, or just that his mix is less shitty than what Biron Willis left the group with? I think it'd be at least interesting to hear his unadulterated mixes.

[Andrew G. Doe]

More the former than the latter. There was sweetening as well as polishing.

[Myk Luhv]

I swear, '70s album by just the Wilson brothers would've killed it. Or they'd just all do hella drugs and f*** around unproductively... but the session would probably be some great bootleg material, haha.

[Jukka]

Does anyone have even remotely exact info on what Carl actually did? I'd guess all the guitar parts are his doing... How about the vocal arrangements, were they Brian's or did Carl add parts afterwards?