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Author Topic: The misconceptions of the 1972-post output...  (Read 5370 times)
clack
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 09:51:00 AM »

What went wrong post-Holland?

1) Carl, seemingly poised to become a major songwriter-arranger, didn't.
2) Dennis, who did become a major writer, couldn't get enough of his songs on the BB lps.
3) Mike and Al, who seemed to be developing into decent songwriters, couldn't sustain the quality.
4) Brian, after delivering a late masterpiece ('Love You'), succumbed to his demons.
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 10:05:38 AM »

What went wrong post-Holland?

1) Carl, seemingly poised to become a major songwriter-arranger, didn't.
2) Dennis, who did become a major writer, couldn't get enough of his songs on the BB lps.
3) Mike and Al, who seemed to be developing into decent songwriters, couldn't sustain the quality.
4) Brian, after delivering a late masterpiece ('Love You'), succumbed to his demons.

5) Blondie and Ricky left.
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 10:07:38 AM »

The context of the times has to be taken to account- at that point commercial viability no longer meant quality product. The best bands in the late 70s weren't topping the charts.
And since then there havent been commercial artists with a quality output in their legacy. The best artists that reflect the influence of the early 60s are underground and not on major labels.

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the captain
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 10:18:12 AM »

Commercial viability never meant quality product--that or it always did (if you define popular as being inherently good, which to some extent I do. Pop music = popular music = popular.). In the record business, selling records has always been the business. That wasn't some mid-to-late 70s invention.
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 10:55:13 AM »

Yeah but the records that sold in the early-mid 60s were good and commercially viable. As the state of pop culture declined the media marketed crap and that's what made $.

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the captain
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« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2013, 10:57:11 AM »

The state of pop culture declined? Bah. And the media always marketed crap. There was plenty of crap in the 60s, it just happens to be the music most of the people on this board like the most. That doesn't make it better.
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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2013, 10:57:45 AM »

Sorry, I don't mean to get non-BBs specific in this thread the way I have been. Derailing complete (though I'm happy to discuss in the general music forum if anyone wants to).
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 10:57:56 AM »

What went wrong post-Holland?

1) Carl, seemingly poised to become a major songwriter-arranger, didn't.
2) Dennis, who did become a major writer, couldn't get enough of his songs on the BB lps.
3) Mike and Al, who seemed to be developing into decent songwriters, couldn't sustain the quality.
4) Brian, after delivering a late masterpiece ('Love You'), succumbed to his demons.

5) Blondie and Ricky left.

6) And so did Jack Rieley.
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kookadams
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2013, 11:33:21 AM »

The state of pop culture declined? Bah. And the media always marketed crap. There was plenty of crap in the 60s, it just happens to be the music most of the people on this board like the most. That doesn't make it better.
I mean how the majority of what was goin on in the 70s was crap. The majority of what was popular in the 60s, at least til the late 60s was good.
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2013, 11:42:18 AM »

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I mean how the majority of what was goin on in the 70s was crap. The majority of what was popular in the 60s, at least til the late 60s was good.

In your opinion. I myself cannot listen to a lot of early 60s music.  That's also only my opinion, one that I'm aware most people don't share.
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From the Good Book of Wilson. Chapter 4, verse 09:

"And the old master painter emerged from his barnyard proclaiming "I'm in great shape, for I have a big bag of vega-tables. And the heroes and the villains alike came together, and partook in the consuming of the Holy Vega-tables. And they were good. And on the seventh day he rested, for the surf was up".

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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2013, 11:56:57 AM »

If you don't like Love You, get drunk and listen to it. You will definitely love it every listen after.
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Which song: Gonna straight up bang you with "the wood".

Which song: Weather conditions make me horny

Which song: Lack of proper shoes leads to potential blood poisoning and death.

Which song: Who needs church? Let's do it on the couch.

Dennis: "Holy sh*t, Al, you're finally showing signs of developing facial hair!!!"
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2013, 11:58:40 AM »

The state of pop culture declined? Bah. And the media always marketed crap. There was plenty of crap in the 60s, it just happens to be the music most of the people on this board like the most. That doesn't make it better.
I mean how the majority of what was goin on in the 70s was crap. The majority of what was popular in the 60s, at least til the late 60s was good.

OK, again I don't mean to get off the Beach Boys topic here, but what, aside from your taste, are you using to qualify the 70s as crap and the 60s as good, or to quantify "the majority" of each decade's output? Have you scoured every release, listened, and ranked them to result in a scientific study? Or, based on the music you know from each decade, do you happen to prefer that of the 60s to the 70s? I suspect it's closer to the latter. Which makes it totally valid as your opinion, but dubious otherwise...

The majority of both decades, I dare to guess, is totally unheard by you. You've probably heard the hits, mostly, then album tracks of those bands you've explored. If you're old enough, you probably also heard what was generally happening on a more day-to-day basis. But to claim the majority of one decade is good and the majority of the next is crap is a little bit silly, to be honest. You can like what you like, your favorite bands can be your favorite bands, but come on...

I glance at my '70s CDs on the wall and see some pretty damn good McCartney, Lennon, Zappa, Beefheart, Big Star, Paul Simon, Nick Drake, Pink Floyd, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, Elvis Costello, Leonard Cohen, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Doors, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Modern Lovers, Emmit Rhodes, Patti Smith, Randy Newman, Television, Prince, Bob Dylan, The Cars, Cheap Trick, Rubinoos, Earth Wind & Fire, Tom Waits, Devo, Raspberries, Eric Carmen, Iggy Pop, David Bowie, Miles Davis ... the list goes on. There is a tremendous amount of amazing music all the time, in every decade. It's impossible to talk about "most" of it any time because there is too much to hear, but if you want to find music you love, you can always find music you love.

At least I hope so. Otherwise that's a sad life.
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 01:16:57 PM »

Since I really do respect most peoples' opinions around here, I figure there must be something to all the 'Love You' love.  I just haven't figured it out yet.

When you've figured it out, tell me.
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« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2013, 01:53:37 PM »

Since I really do respect most peoples' opinions around here, I figure there must be something to all the 'Love You' love.  I just haven't figured it out yet.

When you've figured it out, tell me.

What finally hooked me on the album, after not getting it the first three or four times I listened (I'm slow on the uptake) was trying to play some of the songs myself. If you play an instrument, try just chording through some of those songs. You'll gain a whole new appreciation for them after that.
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« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2013, 05:14:26 PM »

Everybody likes different music. I like vinyl and the blues, rock and roll, country, folk, gospel, particularly from the early fifties to early seventies. I like some stuff before and fair amount of stuff to the early eighties. I even like some music since, but I still have a 20-25 year period that I like best. Nobody is wrong here, but we do all intersect when it comes to The Beach Boys and that's all I care about myself as far as this board.
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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2013, 09:34:30 PM »

The state of pop culture declined? Bah. And the media always marketed crap. There was plenty of crap in the 60s, it just happens to be the music most of the people on this board like the most. That doesn't make it better.
I mean how the majority of what was goin on in the 70s was crap. The majority of what was popular in the 60s, at least til the late 60s was good.

OK, again I don't mean to get off the Beach Boys topic here, but what, aside from your taste, are you using to qualify the 70s as crap and the 60s as good, or to quantify "the majority" of each decade's output? Have you scoured every release, listened, and ranked them to result in a scientific study? Or, based on the music you know from each decade, do you happen to prefer that of the 60s to the 70s? I suspect it's closer to the latter. Which makes it totally valid as your opinion, but dubious otherwise...

The majority of both decades, I dare to guess, is totally unheard by you. You've probably heard the hits, mostly, then album tracks of those bands you've explored. If you're old enough, you probably also heard what was generally happening on a more day-to-day basis. But to claim the majority of one decade is good and the majority of the next is crap is a little bit silly, to be honest. You can like what you like, your favorite bands can be your favorite bands, but come on...

I glance at my '70s CDs on the wall and see some pretty damn good McCartney, Lennon, Zappa, Beefheart, Big Star, Paul Simon, Nick Drake, Pink Floyd, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, Elvis Costello, Leonard Cohen, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Doors, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Modern Lovers, Emmit Rhodes, Patti Smith, Randy Newman, Television, Prince, Bob Dylan, The Cars, Cheap Trick, Rubinoos, Earth Wind & Fire, Tom Waits, Devo, Raspberries, Eric Carmen, Iggy Pop, David Bowie, Miles Davis ... the list goes on. There is a tremendous amount of amazing music all the time, in every decade. It's impossible to talk about "most" of it any time because there is too much to hear, but if you want to find music you love, you can always find music you love.

At least I hope so. Otherwise that's a sad life.

Every decade had its share of "good" music and its good for what it was. As far as rockNroll was concerned in terms of quality the 50s and 60s were its peak. When the direction when from singles to albums is when it got to the excessive era. Thats fine that some can appreciate that and to ea is own but I prefer the music before it got excessive and lost its fun. There are different levels of music appreciation and the majority appreciates it on a more shallow level and thats fine- its an acquired taste and when you get below the surface you can differentiate between quantity and quality.
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2013, 10:03:01 PM »

Again, the quality or lack thereof lies in the opinion of the listener. You may feel like the move from singles to albums was excessive;others may view it as the music ceasing to be disposable. I'm trying like hell  to respect your opinion, but it's hard to do so when you're presenting your opinion as 'fact'.
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From the Good Book of Wilson. Chapter 4, verse 09:

"And the old master painter emerged from his barnyard proclaiming "I'm in great shape, for I have a big bag of vega-tables. And the heroes and the villains alike came together, and partook in the consuming of the Holy Vega-tables. And they were good. And on the seventh day he rested, for the surf was up".

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« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2013, 10:21:49 PM »

Since I really do respect most peoples' opinions around here, I figure there must be something to all the 'Love You' love.  I just haven't figured it out yet.

When you've figured it out, tell me.

What finally hooked me on the album, after not getting it the first three or four times I listened (I'm slow on the uptake) was trying to play some of the songs myself. If you play an instrument, try just chording through some of those songs. You'll gain a whole new appreciation for them after that.
There are some nice melodies and chord progressions on that album, but the lyrics are embarrassing, and I'm not into that whole synth-garage sound, and the vocals on Love You leave a lot to be desired. I never appreciated how well written the tunes were until I heard Brian doing them alone on the piano (Brian Loves You).
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2013, 10:40:10 PM »


 There are some nice melodies and chord progressions on that album, but the lyrics are embarrassing, and I'm not into that whole synth-garage sound, and the vocals on Love You leave a lot to be desired. I never appreciated how well written the tunes were until I heard Brian doing them alone on the piano (Brian Loves You).

True. Nice music but awful lyrics and vocals. I can completely understand people liking Love You (partly because it has a Brian Wilson production credit) but a masterpiece it most certainly isn't.
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« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2013, 10:43:37 PM »

Again, the quality or lack thereof lies in the opinion of the listener. You may feel like the move from singles to albums was excessive;others may view it as the music ceasing to be disposable. I'm trying like hell  to respect your opinion, but it's hard to do so when you're presenting your opinion as 'fact'.
Its not opinion or fact- the music speaks for itself. There was a timeless golden era of rock n roll and there was what followed that reflected dire times- that music was good for what it was but it was in a different vein or what-have-you.
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« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2013, 10:59:51 PM »


RE: Love You, I've been listening to this album over and over again for a week and I still have no clue why anybody, anybody likes that album.  I really am trying to keep an open mind about this period and Love You in particular, but I feel like y'all are trying to convince me that a turd is a tootsie roll.

I wrote this in a recent post on another thread:

Love You is truly a paradox: it's a really bad album that's totally brilliant.
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Along came a young girl
 She’s pretty as a prayer book
 Sweet as an apple on Christmas day
 I said, “Good gracious can this be my luck?
 If that’s my prayer book
 Lord, let us pray”
 
Well I’m standing on the corner of Lafayette
 State of Louisiana
 Wondering what a city boy could do
 To get her in a conversation
 Drink a little red wine
 Dance to the music of Clifton Chenier
 The King of the Bayou
 ‘Ei-toi!
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« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2013, 11:02:48 PM »

The state of pop culture declined? Bah. And the media always marketed crap. There was plenty of crap in the 60s, it just happens to be the music most of the people on this board like the most. That doesn't make it better.
I mean how the majority of what was goin on in the 70s was crap. The majority of what was popular in the 60s, at least til the late 60s was good.

OK, again I don't mean to get off the Beach Boys topic here, but what, aside from your taste, are you using to qualify the 70s as crap and the 60s as good, or to quantify "the majority" of each decade's output? Have you scoured every release, listened, and ranked them to result in a scientific study? Or, based on the music you know from each decade, do you happen to prefer that of the 60s to the 70s? I suspect it's closer to the latter. Which makes it totally valid as your opinion, but dubious otherwise...

The majority of both decades, I dare to guess, is totally unheard by you. You've probably heard the hits, mostly, then album tracks of those bands you've explored. If you're old enough, you probably also heard what was generally happening on a more day-to-day basis. But to claim the majority of one decade is good and the majority of the next is crap is a little bit silly, to be honest. You can like what you like, your favorite bands can be your favorite bands, but come on...

I glance at my '70s CDs on the wall and see some pretty damn good McCartney, Lennon, Zappa, Beefheart, Big Star, Paul Simon, Nick Drake, Pink Floyd, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, Elvis Costello, Leonard Cohen, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Doors, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Modern Lovers, Emmit Rhodes, Patti Smith, Randy Newman, Television, Prince, Bob Dylan, The Cars, Cheap Trick, Rubinoos, Earth Wind & Fire, Tom Waits, Devo, Raspberries, Eric Carmen, Iggy Pop, David Bowie, Miles Davis ... the list goes on. There is a tremendous amount of amazing music all the time, in every decade. It's impossible to talk about "most" of it any time because there is too much to hear, but if you want to find music you love, you can always find music you love.

At least I hope so. Otherwise that's a sad life.

Every decade had its share of "good" music and its good for what it was. As far as rockNroll was concerned in terms of quality the 50s and 60s were its peak. When the direction when from singles to albums is when it got to the excessive era. Thats fine that some can appreciate that and to ea is own but I prefer the music before it got excessive and lost its fun. There are different levels of music appreciation and the majority appreciates it on a more shallow level and thats fine- its an acquired taste and when you get below the surface you can differentiate between quantity and quality.

Sorry man, you're not selling this one.  Just because rock and roll evolved in the 70's doesn't mean it wasn't "good". 
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Along came a young girl
 She’s pretty as a prayer book
 Sweet as an apple on Christmas day
 I said, “Good gracious can this be my luck?
 If that’s my prayer book
 Lord, let us pray”
 
Well I’m standing on the corner of Lafayette
 State of Louisiana
 Wondering what a city boy could do
 To get her in a conversation
 Drink a little red wine
 Dance to the music of Clifton Chenier
 The King of the Bayou
 ‘Ei-toi!
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« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2013, 11:06:14 PM »


RE: Love You, I've been listening to this album over and over again for a week and I still have no clue why anybody, anybody likes that album.  I really am trying to keep an open mind about this period and Love You in particular, but I feel like y'all are trying to convince me that a turd is a tootsie roll.

I wrote this in a recent post on another thread:

Love You is truly a paradox: it's a really bad album that's totally brilliant.
Considering the disappointment of 15 Big Ones, Love You was a great followup. The public wanted new Brian Wilson and with Love You they got an entire album of it. And the album reflected his mindset of the time. Brian poured out his soul with Pet Sounds and he did it in an entirely new fashion with Love You and I think that's respectable. And even tho the Beach Boys experimented with disco they never did with punk but I say Love You was as close as it got. There was definitely an edge with the album.
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kookadams
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« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2013, 11:08:33 PM »

The state of pop culture declined? Bah. And the media always marketed crap. There was plenty of crap in the 60s, it just happens to be the music most of the people on this board like the most. That doesn't make it better.
I mean how the majority of what was goin on in the 70s was crap. The majority of what was popular in the 60s, at least til the late 60s was good.

OK, again I don't mean to get off the Beach Boys topic here, but what, aside from your taste, are you using to qualify the 70s as crap and the 60s as good, or to quantify "the majority" of each decade's output? Have you scoured every release, listened, and ranked them to result in a scientific study? Or, based on the music you know from each decade, do you happen to prefer that of the 60s to the 70s? I suspect it's closer to the latter. Which makes it totally valid as your opinion, but dubious otherwise...

The majority of both decades, I dare to guess, is totally unheard by you. You've probably heard the hits, mostly, then album tracks of those bands you've explored. If you're old enough, you probably also heard what was generally happening on a more day-to-day basis. But to claim the majority of one decade is good and the majority of the next is crap is a little bit silly, to be honest. You can like what you like, your favorite bands can be your favorite bands, but come on...

I glance at my '70s CDs on the wall and see some pretty damn good McCartney, Lennon, Zappa, Beefheart, Big Star, Paul Simon, Nick Drake, Pink Floyd, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, Elvis Costello, Leonard Cohen, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Doors, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Modern Lovers, Emmit Rhodes, Patti Smith, Randy Newman, Television, Prince, Bob Dylan, The Cars, Cheap Trick, Rubinoos, Earth Wind & Fire, Tom Waits, Devo, Raspberries, Eric Carmen, Iggy Pop, David Bowie, Miles Davis ... the list goes on. There is a tremendous amount of amazing music all the time, in every decade. It's impossible to talk about "most" of it any time because there is too much to hear, but if you want to find music you love, you can always find music you love.

At least I hope so. Otherwise that's a sad life.

Every decade had its share of "good" music and its good for what it was. As far as rockNroll was concerned in terms of quality the 50s and 60s were its peak. When the direction when from singles to albums is when it got to the excessive era. Thats fine that some can appreciate that and to ea is own but I prefer the music before it got excessive and lost its fun. There are different levels of music appreciation and the majority appreciates it on a more shallow level and thats fine- its an acquired taste and when you get below the surface you can differentiate between quantity and quality.

Sorry man, you're not selling this one.  Just because rock and roll evolved in the 70's doesn't mean it wasn't "good". 
I never said rockNroll evolved in the 70s. It evolved in the 60s and went as far as 67. 68 and so on went in different directions but I wouldn't say it evolved at all. Some may see it differently and that's ok, not everyone wanted to see it for what it was and that's prerogative. 
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« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2013, 11:20:30 PM »

You're letting your narrow-mindedness get the better of you.  Of course rock music continued to evolve into the 70's. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it was bad.
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Along came a young girl
 She’s pretty as a prayer book
 Sweet as an apple on Christmas day
 I said, “Good gracious can this be my luck?
 If that’s my prayer book
 Lord, let us pray”
 
Well I’m standing on the corner of Lafayette
 State of Louisiana
 Wondering what a city boy could do
 To get her in a conversation
 Drink a little red wine
 Dance to the music of Clifton Chenier
 The King of the Bayou
 ‘Ei-toi!
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