The misconceptions of the 1972-post output...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oh, man! That would have been just awesome......

All that's missing here is Brian:

http://youtu.be/gOfWKzMgeac

[Ron]

After Holland it went downhill, in my opinion. Hardly any creativity left, although Love You is definitely the exception. I love that album. Mike's nasal voice came back, as did the cheesy lyrics and surf/beach/sun songs. The Carl-led period is probably my favourite. Their live shows were amazing as well.

I think to understand WHY everything kind of changed, you have to try to put yourself in their shoes.  So if I'm trying to do that, what's different?  In the 60's, you had young guys, one of the biggest rock bands in the world, making money, meeting women, etc....

and in the 70's, now you see these same guys, already rich, already used to living life a certain way, now with children around they're responsible for, etc...

So I always come to the realization that the reason the music changed, and everything became different isn't just a creativity or business decision, it was a change of life.  These guys were growing up, their personal lives had changed over the years like everybody's do... and it bled over into the music side of it. 

I mean when you're 21, it's easy to write and sing songs about girls on the beach, and falling in love, and whatever.... but when you're 31, now you're at a point where it gets kind of old, how excited can you get about the Beach when you haven't been to the Beach in 6 years?  You try to sing about things that are going on in your life right now, but nobody really wants to hear it, they want you to be 21 again. 

It's one of the reasons something like 15 big ones kinda sucks (with some highspots)... guys singing songs they should have been singing when they were 16 or 17, now they're 35...

and one of the reasons "Love You" rocks.  Guys singing songs about their kids, or with their wife, or about flying home and meeting their woman at the airport, or whatever.

I'd imagine as a musician, it would be almost impossible to get that balance right, everybody from Paul McCartney, to Sheryl Crow, to Britney Spears, to Dr. Dre is sitting somewhere, right now, trying to figure out how to make good music now that they're older than they were when they became famous. 

[Lonely Summer]

I just never will understand the love here for the train wreck that is Love You.

[Ron]

And I will never understand why some people have to state, out loud, that they dislike something. 

[Nicko1234]

And I will never understand why some people have to state, out loud, that they dislike something. 

So people should only ever post positive comments about the group's work? Would make for a pretty dull board.

[DanCiTi]

There are analogue synths, you know. They're all over Love You, even! I think you're conflating 'analogue' with 'acoustic' or 'non-amplified'?

I'm not a musician, but generally I'm talking about sounds that would be right at home on the Tron soundtrack.  Or sounds that mimic another instrument, but that are not generated by that instrument.  Or just electronic sounds in general-- something created by pushing a button rather than picking a string.  Nothing wrong with synths, but I personally prefer an instrument to an electronic sound.  The synths on Love You make it even less appealing.  That's not the primary factor, though.  I think I'd like that album much better if Brian didn't sound like death warmed over-- heck, if I could even recognize without too much effort that it's actually him.  Ah, but I suppose changing any one of those factors would moot the album's authenticity.

Ah yes, but you have to understand Synthesizers aren't just trying to emulate violins. The same way guitars aren't just trying to be violins. Guitars are not just a simpleton's violin hit crudely with your fingers or a little plastic oval-ish triangle. It is a guitar, and you get that. The proliferation and such of synthesizers has made it hard to get.

[kookadams]

After Holland it went downhill, in my opinion. Hardly any creativity left, although Love You is definitely the exception. I love that album. Mike's nasal voice came back, as did the cheesy lyrics and surf/beach/sun songs. The Carl-led period is probably my favourite. Their live shows were amazing as well.

I think to understand WHY everything kind of changed, you have to try to put yourself in their shoes.  So if I'm trying to do that, what's different?  In the 60's, you had young guys, one of the biggest rock bands in the world, making money, meeting women, etc....

and in the 70's, now you see these same guys, already rich, already used to living life a certain way, now with children around they're responsible for, etc...

So I always come to the realization that the reason the music changed, and everything became different isn't just a creativity or business decision, it was a change of life.  These guys were growing up, their personal lives had changed over the years like everybody's do... and it bled over into the music side of it. 

I mean when you're 21, it's easy to write and sing songs about girls on the beach, and falling in love, and whatever.... but when you're 31, now you're at a point where it gets kind of old, how excited can you get about the Beach when you haven't been to the Beach in 6 years?  You try to sing about things that are going on in your life right now, but nobody really wants to hear it, they want you to be 21 again. 

It's one of the reasons something like 15 big ones kinda sucks (with some highspots)... guys singing songs they should have been singing when they were 16 or 17, now they're 35...

and one of the reasons "Love You" rocks.  Guys singing songs about their kids, or with their wife, or about flying home and meeting their woman at the airport, or whatever.

I'd imagine as a musician, it would be almost impossible to get that balance right, everybody from Paul McCartney, to Sheryl Crow, to Britney Spears, to Dr. Dre is sitting somewhere, right now, trying to figure out how to make good music now that they're older than they were when they became famous. 

VERY WELL SAID!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

And I will never understand why some people have to state, out loud, that they dislike something. 

It's more than that. I'm fine with people saying they like or dislike something, its when they say "I can't understand how anyone else thinks differently to me".  It is this lack of empathy that really winds me up.

I couldn't give a damn if someone hates Love You so much they want to wipe their arse on the multitracks, in fact I'm happy to hear about it, just as long as they accept the fact that some people do actually love it and aren't just pretending.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Ron]

And I will never understand why some people have to state, out loud, that they dislike something. 

So people should only ever post positive comments about the group's work? Would make for a pretty dull board.

No, post negativity if you want... but if somebody's talking about how they enjoy something, what good does it do to say "You're wrong.  It's sh*t."  ?

[bonnevillemariner]

And I will never understand why some people have to state, out loud, that they dislike something.  

It's more than that. I'm fine with people saying they like or dislike something, its when they say "I can't understand how anyone else thinks differently to me".  It is this lack of empathy that really winds me up.

In my case, I'm more saying "I don't like it despite really trying, and am seriously at the point where I don't understand how anybody possibly could.  But I'm game- please enlighten me."

Here's how it works in my mind:  Not that anybody is obligated to explain themselves when it comes to musical taste, but personally, If I like some song/album/genre that 99% of people have either never heard of or don't like, I feel the onus is on me in conversation to explain what makes it so awesome.  Vice versa, if the world loves something I can't stand, the onus is on me to explain why.

Grab 100 music listeners of all ages, let them listen to Surfer Girl and Love You, I bet you can guess which album 99 of them would prefer.  

So when it comes to the BBs lesser-known, less popular material, I don't feel bad about politely asking why some of you like it so much.  Part of it is my desire to possibly be enlightened.  I'll admit this is how I came to love Smile.  At first listen, I thought it was a bunch of crap.  Now I'm mixing my own version.  So conversion isn't out of the question.  For Love You and other post Smile albums, I'd love to hear something more than "man that album ROCKS!" or "How can you not love Airplane."  I'd actually really like some insight as to why something is so awesome, aside from the fact that you just think so.

(although, "I just think so" is perfectly legit.)

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I don't normally have a problem in accepting people have other tastes, and some people do like the strangest things.

Personally I can't stand their new album, but I wouldn't expect onus to be on the majority to explain why they like it.

In answer to your question......

I love Love You because it contains, on the whole, some wonderfully crafted songs.

I love Love You for the quirky humour.

I love Love You for the fact it's pure, undiluted BW, i.e he went in and laid down all these synth parts and the arrangements have his unmistakeable stamp all over them.

I love Love You for being the gift that it is. And on top of all that, sometimes your love for music is indefinable.I could go on, but hows that for starters?

If you can be converted, it's a very rewarding album, (which is what folk have told me about the new album) Sometimes you just have to accept, you like what you like.

[Nicko1234]

Is there that much humour in Love You? And if there is was it intentional or was it Brian just writing songs under therapy (with or without Landy)?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Depends what you find funny.

If you're of the notion that Brian is / was and always has been a funny guy, with very dead pan delivery and a love of "put ons" then yes, it's pretty funny.

If you're of the opinion that Brian is / was and always has been an idiot savant with severe mental health issues who isn't capable of acting in a way that could be in any way described as human,  then no, probably not so funny


Personally, I'm in the first camp, and I don't think for one minute that "If Mars had life on it I might find my wife on it" and "The network makes him break his back" were ever meant to be anything other than funny. That, with all the other "dumb / beautiful" juxtapositions (that Brian consciously inplanted into a lot of his work),  are all over Love You.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I don't mean to offend but someday someone's got to explain to me why an electric guitar is widely considered a "real instrument" among rock music listeners while a synthesizer is not.

Because people who deny the synthesiser are twats.

Big Cosine. Hell, hearing Beach Boys Love You made me NEED a synth. Currently got an ms10 and a micromoog...synth bass is the best sound ever.

[Nicko1234]

Depends what you find funny.

If you're of the notion that Brian is / was and always has been a funny guy, with very dead pan delivery and a love of "put ons" then yes, it's pretty funny.

If you're of the opinion that Brian is / was and always has been an idiot savant with severe mental health issues who isn't capable of acting in a way that could be in any way described as human,  then no, probably not so funny

Ah, those are the only two types of people in the world are they...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Is there that much humour in Love You? And if there is was it intentional or was it Brian just writing songs under therapy (with or without Landy)?

Which translates as is Brian funny or is he mentally ill and therefiore incapable of humour. Your question was dualistic, I answered in kind. 

Look, I understand. You don't like Love You, or Smiley Smile. Maybe I should start aggressively quizzing you about your tastes.

I love these albums, and you don't. Is this an acceptable summary? Because to be honest I can't be bothered. This subject pops up every six months or so. I think we've put it to bed, and explained why we love these albums, then a couple of jokers like you appear who seem incapable of accepting these explanations.

Maybe you have psychological problems, if so I apologise, and suggest you get some therapy. Maybe you can write some songs?

[Nicko1234]

Which translates as is Brian funny or is he mentally ill and therefiore incapable of humour. Your question was dualistic, I answered in kind. 

Look, I understand. You don't like Love You, or Smiley Smile. Maybe I should start aggressively quizzing you about your tastes.

I love these albums, and you don't. Is this an acceptable summary? Because to be honest I can't be bothered. This subject pops up every six months or so. I think we've put it to bed, and explained why we love these albums, then a couple of jokers like you appear who seem incapable of accepting these explanations.

Maybe you have psychological problems, if so I apologise, and suggest you get some therapy. Maybe you can write some songs?

Huh???

Firstly I've never said that I don't like Love You or Smiley Smile (the latter album isn't even being discussed here). Another poster stated that they show Brian's genius which I don't believe they do as a whole. I really like parts of each album but really dislike other parts.

I asked whether it was Brian writing songs as therapy because...isn't that what it was? Wasn't Johnny Carson written as part of Brian's therapy because he had a fear of going on talk shows? That's certainly a statement that has appeared in books in the past and that goes for some other songs from the era too. There was a claim that Landy had written the lyrics to several songs but we'll probably never know the truth on that score.

Now Brian was mentally ill at the time. No revelation there. So I think there is reasonable doubt as to whether Brian was trying to be intentionally humorous in these songs. Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. As at the time he was also writing worrying dreck like Lazy Lizzie and Hey Little Tomboy I don't think it's unfair to question his songwriting intentions.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

OK, It gets my back up to be questioned on my tastes, but I see were you're coming from.  You did, I think, contribute to the Smiley thread also, which was why I lumped you in with that. I apologise for my harsh response.

There was a very interesting thread recently about Love You, mental illness and how that made some listeners uncomfortable.  I'll winkle that out later.

[MBE]

I just never will understand the love here for the train wreck that is Love You.

I hear you. The old stuff on it was good, Night Was So Young, and I'll Bet He's Nice are more than decent, but the rest of the LP makes me feel like I am intruding.  Some seem to like it because they know of Brian's problems, but that's why I don't. I don't think he was trying to be funny, or experimental. In the vocals, lyrics, and even production, I simply hear an audibly lost person who sounds like he's being exploited.

My tastes aren't vanilla. I like offbeat artists like Syd Barrett, and Brian did some very quirky funky work over 1966-74 that I adore. Yet when it comes to Love You I just can't fathom how it is so well loved. It makes me very sad. I can get into some of Brian's 1975-82 stuff. For instance I really like the big band Adult Child recordings. On Love You I mostly get a sinking feeling. Brian being offbeat in his humor or music is part of his charm, yet songs like Love Is A Woman, or I Wanna Pick You Up don't sound at all self aware and that's the difference.

[Nicko1234]

OK, It gets my back up to be questioned on my tastes, but I see were you're coming from.  You did, I think, contribute to the Smiley thread also, which was why I lumped you in with that. I apologise for my harsh response.

There was a very interesting thread recently about Love You, mental illness and how that made some listeners uncomfortable.  I'll winkle that out later.

No problems.

You'll probably find the same comments. Myself and Mike Eder feeling that Brian sounds 'wrong' on this album.

[The Shift]

Wouldn't it be good if there was some news soon?

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Grab 100 music listeners of all ages, let them listen to Surfer Girl and Love You, I bet you can guess which album 99 of them would prefer.  

You just lost this thread. Most people are utter idiots who's opinion is totally worthless and whose approval is not worth seeking.

Who the hell cares what 'most people' think.

For example, this:

I could care less

is kind of like Biff in back to the future saying 'make like a tree and go away'. It makes you sound like a simpleton. The phrase is 'couldn't care less'. Just because lots of people get it infuriatingly wrong, doesn't mean it's an acceptable alternative.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Arguing about musical tastes is an exercise in futilty. Being put in a position of having to defend those tastes is offensive.

I don't care how many "experts" don't like this LP. I do like it and derive great pleasure from it.

[MBE]

I don't like "Let's Put Our Hearts Together"...is that offensive? If so-relax! At the end of the day this should be a fun hobby, not anything to get rattled up about. As good as a band as the Beach Boys were/are, nobody should lose sleep over what one fan digs over another. As far as my tastes go, they are no more "expert" than anyone else's. My feelings for it and anything else "Beach Boys", I do try to make a case for here or in my book. Yet it doesn't go beyond that for me. If you like the album very cool, I simply don't relate that's all.