Great instrument playing moments in BBs recordings

[AndrewHickey]

 Knowing that the so-called WC and other studio cats did all (or most all) the playing on records by other '60s groups such as The Monkees,

Except that that's a myth, too. The Wrecking Crew played on comparatively few Monkees tracks, every Monkees album had at least some Monkee instrumental involvement, and looking at their hit singles they break down as follows:
Last Train To Clarksville/Take A Giant Step -- both sides played by The Candy Store Prophets, Boyce & Hart's band, plus a couple of extra session musicians
I'm A Believer/Not Your Stepping Stone -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side by the Candy Store Prophets
A Little Bit Me/The Girl I Knew Somewhere -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side all instruments by the Monkees except bass by Chip Douglas
Alternate Title/Forget That Girl -- all instruments by the Monkees except bass
Pleasant Valley Sunday/Words -- instruments by Tork, Jones and Nesmith plus Chip Douglas (bass) and Eddie Hoh (drums)
Daydream Believer/Goin' Down -- instruments by Tork, Jones ,Nesmith, Douglas and Hoh (plus horn section on the B-side)
Valleri/Tapioca Tundra -- A-side by the Candy Store Prophets, B-side almost all instruments except drums Nesmith

[Jon Stebbins]

 Knowing that the so-called WC and other studio cats did all (or most all) the playing on records by other '60s groups such as The Monkees,

Except that that's a myth, too. The Wrecking Crew played on comparatively few Monkees tracks, every Monkees album had at least some Monkee instrumental involvement, and looking at their hit singles they break down as follows:
Last Train To Clarksville/Take A Giant Step -- both sides played by The Candy Store Prophets, Boyce & Hart's band, plus a couple of extra session musicians
I'm A Believer/Not Your Stepping Stone -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side by the Candy Store Prophets
A Little Bit Me/The Girl I Knew Somewhere -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side all instruments by the Monkees except bass by Chip Douglas
Alternate Title/Forget That Girl -- all instruments by the Monkees except bass
Pleasant Valley Sunday/Words -- instruments by Tork, Jones and Nesmith plus Chip Douglas (bass) and Eddie Hoh (drums)
Daydream Believer/Goin' Down -- instruments by Tork, Jones ,Nesmith, Douglas and Hoh (plus horn section on the B-side)
Valleri/Tapioca Tundra -- A-side by the Candy Store Prophets, B-side almost all instruments except drums Nesmith

Great post...and true.

[monicker]

I don’t know if these



are the same Little Hugs, and they’re probably different today than they were then anyway, but this got me wondering if maybe the orange juice containers were sort of like (bigger) Yoplait yogurt cups, which are a thicker plastic, and produce much more of that clip clop sound:



I feel like the topics of the cups/OJ containers and the water jug would be an easy question to ask several possible people who were around then. It’s one of those near legendary details of Brian’s heyday productions. I mean, you always hear about these things, so surely it’s of enough interest to ask around to some relevant people who would definitely know.

[schiaffino]

I know its an acquired taste, but  I sincerely think 'Matchpoint' is an amazing song. From what I know/read the band recorded this on their own (I believe mostly Al & Brian played instruments, nor Dennis nor Carl were actively involved in those sessions).

If the above holds true, Al did most of the guitar work on this song. And IMO its one of his best guitar playing moments! The whole song has such a natural flow to it, the guitar just goes along. It doesnt drive the song, its not all-over it. There's no crazy solos, but just a cool, jazzy layer that follows Brian's amazing vocals.

The open chords at the end of the song are genius. Beautiful. Great playing, Al.

No, actually, the MIU tracks were recorded with the BB's road band at the time.  It's true Al played more guitar on that album than probably any other BBs studio LP besides "Party!", but the jazzy lead guitar flourishes on "Matchpoint" are Ed Carter.

Thanks for the clarification.

I think I was just trying hard to validate Al as a guitar player. He's not the first person I reference as my guitar hero (that's actually Johnny Marr) but anyways, I think he has great tempo, feeling and gave a lot of color to the BBs live sound.

You can actually see that when Mike is introducing the band before 'Little Deuce Coupe', in the Lost Concert film. When its gets to Al, he sounds great (very simple, yet decisive in getting the rock vibe going): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wklo_5AOLI

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Susi Cincinnati features some great Al guitar work

[c-man]

 Knowing that the so-called WC and other studio cats did all (or most all) the playing on records by other '60s groups such as The Monkees,

Except that that's a myth, too. The Wrecking Crew played on comparatively few Monkees tracks, every Monkees album had at least some Monkee instrumental involvement, and looking at their hit singles they break down as follows:
Last Train To Clarksville/Take A Giant Step -- both sides played by The Candy Store Prophets, Boyce & Hart's band, plus a couple of extra session musicians
I'm A Believer/Not Your Stepping Stone -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side by the Candy Store Prophets
A Little Bit Me/The Girl I Knew Somewhere -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side all instruments by the Monkees except bass by Chip Douglas
Alternate Title/Forget That Girl -- all instruments by the Monkees except bass
Pleasant Valley Sunday/Words -- instruments by Tork, Jones and Nesmith plus Chip Douglas (bass) and Eddie Hoh (drums)
Daydream Believer/Goin' Down -- instruments by Tork, Jones ,Nesmith, Douglas and Hoh (plus horn section on the B-side)
Valleri/Tapioca Tundra -- A-side by the Candy Store Prophets, B-side almost all instruments except drums Nesmith

Cool...another myth smashed!  We're on a roll now.

[schiaffino]

Susi Cincinnati features some great Al guitar work

Not a big fan of that song, but you're right, he does a god job there. Thanks 

[rab2591]

The bass playing in Wind Chimes.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Drums on "The Private Life..." There's a high hat fill that is awesome during one of the latter choruses.

[halblaineisgood]

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[guitarfool2002]

I don’t know if these



are the same Little Hugs, and they’re probably different today than they were then anyway, but this got me wondering if maybe the orange juice containers were sort of like (bigger) Yoplait yogurt cups, which are a thicker plastic, and produce much more of that clip clop sound:



I feel like the topics of the cups/OJ containers and the water jug would be an easy question to ask several possible people who were around then. It’s one of those near legendary details of Brian’s heyday productions. I mean, you always hear about these things, so surely it’s of enough interest to ask around to some relevant people who would definitely know.

Monicker, those are indeed the "Little Hug" barrel drinks from when I was a kid - I used to turn them upside down and drum on them like bongo drums. This a few years before I started taking real drum lessons! They can be percussive sounding, and if you hit them with an eraser tip of a  pencil or something then put some echo on the sound, you may get a Pet Sounds-like effect from those empties.

The yogurt container does resemble some old-school single serve containers I have seen at antique shows and the like, where people collect old stuff from local dairies - I am in Pennsylvania, after all...But seriously, the shape is similar but the only problem is that the older ones pre-70's that I have seen were not plastic, but instead some kind of paper or cardboard. And again I'll say I have no way of knowing what LA was serving in 1966, but up into the early 80's a lot of the containers from dairies were in waxed cardboard containers or the larger sizes were still in reusable glass bottles.

A tip to pursue, which I'd gladly do if I had more time:

- Find a copy online or elsewhere of the LA Times from the week the track was recorded in '66.
- Look for the store ads - most papers transferred everything including ad inserts to microfilm, then online (where available)
- Find the name of a few dairies whose products were sold in the stores
- Look up the dairies, see if any are still active
- Contact them with the questions about the old containers they used in the 50's and 60's, if they are still somewhat big in that business they might have a company archives or historical dept. where they'd have stuff like old containers on display
- Find a collectors group online who collect dairy memorabilia. It sounds odd, but there are people who are really into this and look for items from every dairy, and have gatherings and whatnot. I'm totally serious.

That's just one avenue - I've used similar methods in other non-BB's research I have done, and sometimes what I found outside of the topic at hand would be as interesting as what I was looking for!

By all means, if anyone should pursue this and get more info, please share, I've been curious about this topic and would love to learn more!

[guitarfool2002]

GuitarfoolCraig, assuming you're talking about some forum or outlet that has the eyes or ears of prominent players/journalists/historians, the point we should make clear from the start is how all this "misinformed history" started...while it may have been mentioned here & there in magazine articles through the years that Brian sometimes used other players like Hal Blaine, et al, and that "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" were largely recorded with studio players while the other guys were on the road, only adding their vocals later, I think we can trace the origin of "the Beach Boys stopped playing on their own records after the first two albums" misunderstanding to a line in David Leaf's 1978 book "The Beach Boys and the California Myth" (ironic title, no?), where he wrote "from 1963 through 1966 Brian used studio musicians on the instrumental tracks".  Whomever gave Leaf that idea may or may not have had an "agenda"...if someone like Chuck Britz said it, it would not have been meant as an absolute, but rather more along the lines of "Brian started using session players back in '63, all the way up through '66, before he put the studio in his house"...but if it was one of Brian's early friends, they might have said "it was always Hal Blaine who played the drums" (when in fact most of the sessions they were speaking of were for Brian's NON-Beach Boys productions), or one of Brian's later friends (like "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" later) who saw the other Beach Boys as hindering Brian's musical and personal progresson...MAYBE they saw fit to downplay the involvement of the other guys.  Now I'm sure Leaf didn't know any better at the time...but he repeated what he was told, in print, and within a few years various mags like Guitar Player started printing lists of songs that they assumed people like Tedesco, etc. played on...without REALLY knowing for sure, and certainly without the musicians themselves providing all the titles.  Knowing that the so-called WC and other studio cats did all (or most all) the playing on records by other '60s groups such as The Monkees, this got picked up as gospel by other writers, and before you know it, the myth was widespread perpetuated.  Interestingly, years later when Leaf was involved with writing liner notes for the Capitol twofer CDs and coproducing the "Thirty Years of Good Vibrations" box set, he actually got to hear the session tapes, and was able to (somewhat) set the record straight...the great UK fan mag Beach Boys STOMP printed a little blurb titled "Box Set Update" that read "Just spoken to two of Brian Wilson's biggest fans, David Leaf and Andy Paley, who wanted to remind everybody that in working on the box set and listening to the session tapes, it became clear how important each of the Beach Boys are to the sound we all love so much".  Yet, when compiling credits for the "Pet Sounds" box set three years later, it seems he just couldn't bring himself to believe that Brian would have allowed Dennis to play drums in the studio by that time, so he credited the drums on "That's Not Me" to Hal, whose name is NOT on the AFM contract and whose voice is not heard or name mentioned on the session tape...when we know it was in fact Dennis!  This seems to me to be because it was too easy for him to buy into the romantic myth that Dennis was a musical idiot until the late '60s when, out of nowhere, he found his muse and suddenly blossomed into a great musician (admittedly, Dennis was a "late bloomer, but the myth that he was allergic to the studio between '63 and '66 is just that).  


The other Craig  

Craig, thanks for that post! I have in mind something that I hope to pull together and send out a few messages to see what folks think of it, but my outlet for this is specific and I think might be open to such a thing and with a pretty specific and wide audience. I will be in touch soon, I promise.

I'm thinking of a way to get it out there which does not specifically have the tone of correcting anything, yet the information and material presented would be in such a way that it would be interesting, informative, fun, and in a more subliminal way correct the misinformation that many have read and believe to be the facts about certain things we know are inaccurate, yet repeated often. There is a delicate balance, I may have a way to do it.

I will be in touch, I hope this will be of interest.

[guitarfool2002]

 Knowing that the so-called WC and other studio cats did all (or most all) the playing on records by other '60s groups such as The Monkees,

Except that that's a myth, too. The Wrecking Crew played on comparatively few Monkees tracks, every Monkees album had at least some Monkee instrumental involvement, and looking at their hit singles they break down as follows:
Last Train To Clarksville/Take A Giant Step -- both sides played by The Candy Store Prophets, Boyce & Hart's band, plus a couple of extra session musicians
I'm A Believer/Not Your Stepping Stone -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side by the Candy Store Prophets
A Little Bit Me/The Girl I Knew Somewhere -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side all instruments by the Monkees except bass by Chip Douglas
Alternate Title/Forget That Girl -- all instruments by the Monkees except bass
Pleasant Valley Sunday/Words -- instruments by Tork, Jones and Nesmith plus Chip Douglas (bass) and Eddie Hoh (drums)
Daydream Believer/Goin' Down -- instruments by Tork, Jones ,Nesmith, Douglas and Hoh (plus horn section on the B-side)
Valleri/Tapioca Tundra -- A-side by the Candy Store Prophets, B-side almost all instruments except drums Nesmith

I can't add anything to this other than to say it was great to see this list. As mentioned, even on the first two albums there was Mike working behind the glass as producer, and he was insisting that a guy like Peter Tork play guitar on his session(s) even if Tork was not yet in the union, and his role was not a prominent one.

And needless to say, the Monkees themselves did play most of Headquarters, a lot of Pisces Aquarius, and from the albums beyond those were involved in the productions firsthand, all except for maybe Davy Jones who wasn't as into that part of the process as he was performing.

So that killer guitar line/riff on "Pleasant Valley Sunday" is Mike Nesmith triple-tracking his Les Paul "Black Beauty" through a Vox Super Beatle amp and then through an early model UA 1176. The classic piano intro on "Daydream Believer" is played by Peter Tork. The stop-and-start quirky yet driving drumbeat on "The Girl I Knew Somewhere" is Micky Dolenz. And by all means check out the band as a self-contained, totally live entity ripping it apart in the movie Head playing "Circle Sky". Right there are two top-5 singles from 1967, a classic movie performance, and a top-40 B-side from '67 which did get airplay on AM radio that year...each of them featuring a hook or a classic part played by an actual Monkee.

[halblaineisgood]

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[guitarfool2002]

Eddie Hoh doesn't really get lumped in under the "wrecking crew", and with all their false credits, so he kind of gets the shaft too. He's not a monkee, but not wrecking crew. Love his drumming on Daydream Believer. I always thought it was cool how it's mixed so low, but it's got such a great feel, and it really drives the track. There's horns on both the A and B side of that though, right? Also, the new york cats seem to be listed by name on the wikipedia for I'm A Believer. But they are not household names, so I guess anonymous New York musicians they are. I am impressed with all the stuff the Monkees played on. I swear I read somewhere that Tommy Tedesco played on Valeri. But it's Louie Shelton, huh? Good to know. Also all these Carl solos. Good to know.

Valleri was definitely Louie Shelton, one of the coolest solos of 60's rock for sure. There was another session guitarist who I read remembered hearing that solo on the radio or TV and knowing it was Louie Shelton since he had heard Louie practicing Spanish-flavored and Flamenco speed runs on guitar...only Louie would do that, or something along those lines. Could be a myth but i thought it was a cool story. Louie played on many classic solos well into modern times, including of all things "Hello" by Lionel Richie...great solo, btw.

Eddie Hoh, we've brought him up in other Monkees discussions here. He all but disappeared for years, I still have not seen a good clear photo of him drumming from the 60's or any other era. Great drummer - "Goin Down" (the horn-heavy B-side to Daydream Believer: Mike on guitar, Chip on bass, etc.), "The Door Into Summer", and "Daily Nightly" are among my favorite "Fast Eddie" tracks...hell, he was great on every Monkees track. I think his other big credit was Al Kooper's "Super Session" with Bloomfield and Stills, correct?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Susi Cincinnati features some great Al guitar work

It's been awhile since I've heard the session, and I love Al's playing so this is not to denigrate it, but I seem to remember it taking quite a few tries for him to nail the intro--mainly because, and again this is by memory, he's not taking it very seriously.  Lots of levity.

[halblaineisgood]

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[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I love the bass during the organ solo on Wild Honey. Funky as hell groove.

[halblaineisgood]

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[halblaineisgood]

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[halblaineisgood]

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[Uncomfortable Seat]

A Little Bit Me/The Girl I Knew Somewhere -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side all instruments by the Monkees except bass by Chip Douglas

bass and tambourine on The Girl I Knew Somewhere by John London

[AndrewHickey]

There's horns on both the A and B side of that though, right?

You're right, of course.

Also, the new york cats seem to be listed by name on the wikipedia for I'm A Believer. But they are not household names, so I guess anonymous New York musicians they are.

That's really weird, actually -- I was doing those credits from memory, but I'm pretty certain that Sandoval says in his book that there's no existing union documentation for those sessions (and I can't find my copy of Sandoval right now to check). The Monkees Sessionography website, which is usually pretty good, says "Carol Kaye played Fender bass on this track and possibly others from these New York sessions." (Nonsense, of course, but they're taking her word for it in the absence of other evidence) "Unfortunately, complete documentation for these sessions has not been located."

When I was looking into this stuff about 18 months ago, for the book I did on the Monkees' music, as best I could discover those sessions *were* genuinely anonymous. I wonder if some new documentation has turned up. Looks like Wikipedia has the same credits, now, for A Little Bit Me as well.

[AndrewHickey]

A Little Bit Me/The Girl I Knew Somewhere -- A-side by unknown New York session players, B-side all instruments by the Monkees except bass by Chip Douglas

bass and tambourine on The Girl I Knew Somewhere by John London

You're absolutely right. My mistake -- I was doing it from memory, and Chip Douglas played bass on so many of those tracks around that time.

[SonicVolcano]

Organ solo Leaving This Town - In Concert album.

One of the most impressive Hammond solos I have ever heard, to be honest.