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Author Topic: at what point did Brian start to seem "off"?  (Read 7345 times)
Paul J B
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« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2013, 06:43:47 AM »

I've recently watched a video on youtube of Brian talking to some journalist or whoever backstage. The camera appeared to be hidden or something of the kind, so him and guy are seen from distance and the image is kinda blur. Anyway, Brian seemed MUCH more normal than I've seen in other interviews. Even his voice was okay and he was acting very comfortably. Shame I don't remember the name of the video, but that got me thinking that we can't really judge his current state from what we've seen of him in interviews or even shows. To me, aside from the neurological damage which I know nothing of, he's bored. He looks like someone who has a lot of thoughts in his head so every social obligation is annoying because it distracts him from his own personal world. It's like when you have a strong thought in your head, you're really working on it and have to make small talk with someone in the elevator. Being interviewed for 50 years must be incredibly boring. Rhapsody in Blue, Be My Baby, how my brothers and I would sing on our room, how I got the California Girl's bass line from Bach, etc, etc. Plus, there's also the fact that he does not like to perform. I think he just doesn't bother about fulfilling social protocols. For some people it's just harder than normal.

That is a great post. There is no doubt Brian does not like the camera in his face and being questioned by some dimwit reporter or such. My only question is why he/the management seems to put himself in that position over and over. I know he needs to market himself and the Beach Boys but there should be STRICT guidelines as to who has access to him and when.

Board indeed............unless Brian goes to David Leaf or someone else that has regular access to him and says "I've got an interesting story or two that most people have never heard about"....or...."here are the Smile tapes I said I burned, you can play them if you want" or something like that then people should leave him alone and stop asking the same stupid questions over and over and over.
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Heteronym
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« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2013, 06:47:56 PM »

https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/2700cc9c7c94b8be852563b7006b5bff/9b59a01f892cb86a8525792d00713c7c/$FILE/A&O%20-%20Dysfunction%20&%20creativity%20-%20Brian%20Wilson%20in%20sci-amer-mind1205-36.pdf

Did you guys check this? That quote from 1976 (15 Big Ones, most likely) is new to me. It actually explains a lot WHY Brian didn't sit down and record an album in the early 70's, considering that the little output of his musical material was still brilliant. Plus, we can also understand why Brian was apparently easy to exploit.

EDIT: Paul J B, just now I saw your post. Thank you! And as for your question, I've read somewhere Brian saying to one interviewer that it's a "good thing" for him, since it makes him interact or something of the kind. But, again, there are different kinds of interviews...when the interviewers is up to the job, Brian can talk a little bit more, but you can tell he's nervous. I myself rush the words and talk a little funny when in situations like that.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 07:49:17 PM by Heteronym » Logged
rab2591
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« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2013, 07:00:00 PM »

https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/2700cc9c7c94b8be852563b7006b5bff/9b59a01f892cb86a8525792d00713c7c/$FILE/A&O%20-%20Dysfunction%20&%20creativity%20-%20Brian%20Wilson%20in%20sci-amer-mind1205-36.pdf

Did you guys check this? That quote from 1976 (15 Big Ones, most likely) is new to me. It actually explains a lot WHY Brian didn't sit down and record an album in the early 70's, considering that the little output of his musical material was still brilliant. Plus, we can also understand why Brian was apparently easy to exploit.

Makes sense.

Also, not to stray too far from the topic, but is Brian's placing a sandbox in his house really considered a plausible warning sign for mental sickness? Firstly, it's the coolest idea ever. Secondly, the man was a millionaire and could do it...why not? I don't at all see the connection between a millionaire's indoor sandbox and his mental health issues (spelled out it sounds ridiculous though haha).
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Here is what I know; Brian worked his ass off on this record whether some here want to believe that or not; let the music speak for itself.
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« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2013, 07:01:56 PM »

That was a fascinating article...thank you for sharing it!
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From the Good Book of Wilson. Chapter 4, verse 09:

"And the old master painter emerged from his barnyard proclaiming "I'm in great shape, for I have a big bag of vega-tables. And the heroes and the villains alike came together, and partook in the consuming of the Holy Vega-tables. And they were good. And on the seventh day he rested, for the surf was up".

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Watching Nic Cage deliver a running uppercut to a young girl while wearing a bear costume is one of life's greatest joys.
kookadams
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« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2013, 08:15:22 PM »

Rockandroll - I disagree with your position, but respect your right to have it.  America was built on activism.  And, a three pronged system of checks and balances for a reason.  

Transparency is lacking as a result of influence peddling.  I won't apologize for my position, because it is a result of reading many legal cases, many of which, had what I consider to be an unfair and harsh result.  I am glad you concede that the business aspect of medicine could be problematic.  What ever happened to "first, do no harm?"

Just as an example, to analogize, we have a huge drug epidemic in this country. And when OxyContin was manufactured, the company knew the potential for abuse.  They knew (because they are supposed to test for misuse,) that it would produce a heroin high if chewed or snorted and was very dangerous if it fell into the wrong hands.  And it did.

The state of Kentucky was one of the first to sue, and recover monies for drug treatment for the victims.  That was the tip of the iceberg.  And the misrepresentations were huge. The president and chief medical officer pled guilty to charges of fraudulent marketing and making claims not supported by research.

If this industry behaves this way towards pain killers, do they behave differently with vaccine promotion?  I think not.  I've gone to too many funerals of former students who overdosed and started off with a very innocent looking pill.  If you hurt someone; you should pay.  And always good to know who funded a scientist's research.  Not to know is just looking through "rose colored glasses."

Parents whose precious kids got sick after a shot, deserve answers, and should have them.  JMHO

They don't get a pass from me.  

www.erinmariedaly/com/clips/ky_attorney_general_oxycontin.pdf

(For educational purposes)

Are all vaccines bad? Absolutely not.  Can they be made safer? Probably. Is there a moderate position? Parents in my era rarely heard of autism connected to vaccines, and we did not challenge a vaccine schedule. This is something that happened more frequently since that time and required some attention.  Do we need to artificially eliminate everything including colds, with vaccines?  

Does this industry need oversight when some of those in charge have been found guilty of falsehood?  You decide.

Mods - please move this thread.

Brian's health status concerns his doctors, his family and is none of our business.  JMHO
  


The drug epidemic is due to a combination of TWO things- 1 the "war on drugs" and how bad the government has gotten with it. 2 The constantly growing decline of pretty much EVERYTHING in society in the past few decades.
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adamghost
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« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2013, 11:53:30 PM »

Can we please stay on topic? Mike posted a lengthy response that was all but ignored except by a few.

OK.....Mike, thanks for taking the time to do that post; that was a lot of typing! And, I agree with over 90% of it. I only take exception with two points.

First, yes, I believe that at times Brian was self-conscious about his high voice, or as he termed it "feminine" vocals. And, yes, I believe that he wanted a more masculine voice as he got older. And, yes, I agree that he sometimes intentionally sang more gruff and masculine. But, I will never concede that he intentionally tried to ruin his voice or get it to sound rougher or masculine by INTENTIONALLY ALTERING IT PHYSICALLY. He chained smoked because of his addictive personality and his addiction to nicotine. His vocal chords were irreparably damaged by excessive cocaine use. Essentially his vocal chords were scorched. I don't believe Brian knew the extent to which he was ruining his voice; it happened in a relatively short period of time.

Second, I do not believe that Brian's vocals in 1981 were THAT bad. I saw the Beach Boys a couple of times without Carl and Brian was given a few extra leads which he handled fine. Not great, but fine. I saw him nail the lead to "Don't Worry Baby" I think in Hershey, PA. I know I'm in the minority but I enjoyed parts - parts - of his vocals on that July 5, 1981 TV broadcast. Brian was wavering between trying to sing high or low. Yes, he struggled with his falsetto, but when he sang in a lower register it was strong. I mean, he was actually holding notes and appeared to be really "singing". It turned out to be a slight precursor to his solo career. When Brian emerged with Landy in 1983, almost all of Brian's vocals were deep, strong, and almost shouty. While I preferred the deep 1981 vocals, I never cared for his post-1982 vocals - at all.

His "God Only Knows" at the Long Beach concert was very good.  Nobody remembers because "Don't Worry Baby" was next on the setlist...
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« Reply #106 on: February 27, 2013, 01:02:22 AM »

Notice how he was less gruff in 1981 than in 1976?
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Quote
From the Good Book of Wilson. Chapter 4, verse 09:

"And the old master painter emerged from his barnyard proclaiming "I'm in great shape, for I have a big bag of vega-tables. And the heroes and the villains alike came together, and partook in the consuming of the Holy Vega-tables. And they were good. And on the seventh day he rested, for the surf was up".

Quote
Watching Nic Cage deliver a running uppercut to a young girl while wearing a bear costume is one of life's greatest joys.
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« Reply #107 on: February 27, 2013, 03:29:53 AM »

Brian has been quoted as saying that he felt his abilities to make music easily changed in 1971. Saying that was the year it started to slip for him, he said after that point he didn't have a hold on what happened. I think the Sounds 1976 interview explans a lot of what happened after 1970, Brian is very "on" and seems to have a good grasp of his career in that article.
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Micha
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« Reply #108 on: March 05, 2013, 12:16:09 AM »

https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/2700cc9c7c94b8be852563b7006b5bff/9b59a01f892cb86a8525792d00713c7c/$FILE/A&O%20-%20Dysfunction%20&%20creativity%20-%20Brian%20Wilson%20in%20sci-amer-mind1205-36.pdf

Did you guys check this? That quote from 1976 (15 Big Ones, most likely) is new to me.

Which one are you talking of?
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TerryWogan
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« Reply #109 on: March 05, 2013, 03:36:53 AM »

https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/2700cc9c7c94b8be852563b7006b5bff/9b59a01f892cb86a8525792d00713c7c/$FILE/A&O%20-%20Dysfunction%20&%20creativity%20-%20Brian%20Wilson%20in%20sci-amer-mind1205-36.pdf

Did you guys check this? That quote from 1976 (15 Big Ones, most likely) is new to me.

Which one are you talking of?

This one I think:
"Something happened to my concentration—I don’t know exactly what, but it weakened for some reason—and I lost the ability to concentrate enough to follow through.”
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Amy B.
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« Reply #110 on: March 05, 2013, 04:56:34 AM »

I've recently watched a video on youtube of Brian talking to some journalist or whoever backstage. The camera appeared to be hidden or something of the kind, so him and guy are seen from distance and the image is kinda blur. Anyway, Brian seemed MUCH more normal than I've seen in other interviews. Even his voice was okay and he was acting very comfortably. Shame I don't remember the name of the video, but that got me thinking that we can't really judge his current state from what we've seen of him in interviews or even shows. To me, aside from the neurological damage which I know nothing of, he's bored. He looks like someone who has a lot of thoughts in his head so every social obligation is annoying because it distracts him from his own personal world. It's like when you have a strong thought in your head, you're really working on it and have to make small talk with someone in the elevator. Being interviewed for 50 years must be incredibly boring. Rhapsody in Blue, Be My Baby, how my brothers and I would sing on our room, how I got the California Girl's bass line from Bach, etc, etc. Plus, there's also the fact that he does not like to perform. I think he just doesn't bother about fulfilling social protocols. For some people it's just harder than normal.

By the way, when the slurriness on his voice first appeared?

I wouldn't say that just because he's being more normal when he thinks he's off camera it means he doesn't have the enormous issues when he knows he's on camera. Maybe not neurological, but psychological. Maybe the camera gives him anxiety that triggers some of those symptoms we see. Anxiety can have an enormous physical impact on a person.
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« Reply #111 on: March 05, 2013, 03:45:31 PM »

Mikie's post was great and I think he and other people are right when they mention how Murry's death threw Brian and Dennis for a loop. The fact that they didn't go to the funeral speaks volumes.

If I could change anything about the Beach Boys history, it would be these two things.

1. Brian and Dennis begin therapy in 1973, speaking honestly about Murry with a therapist who can get past their father issues. Dennis supposedly was talking a lot about Murry in his final, awful months, and Brian mentioned Murry's death at the press conference they had after Dennis died. Neither one ever got over the damage Murry did to them.

2. Sometime around 1990 or so, Carl's doctor tells him that since he smoked so much, he should get a chest x-ray or MRI once a year to make sure if anything develops they can catch it early.
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Heteronym
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« Reply #112 on: March 05, 2013, 03:58:25 PM »

I've recently watched a video on youtube of Brian talking to some journalist or whoever backstage. The camera appeared to be hidden or something of the kind, so him and guy are seen from distance and the image is kinda blur. Anyway, Brian seemed MUCH more normal than I've seen in other interviews. Even his voice was okay and he was acting very comfortably. Shame I don't remember the name of the video, but that got me thinking that we can't really judge his current state from what we've seen of him in interviews or even shows. To me, aside from the neurological damage which I know nothing of, he's bored. He looks like someone who has a lot of thoughts in his head so every social obligation is annoying because it distracts him from his own personal world. It's like when you have a strong thought in your head, you're really working on it and have to make small talk with someone in the elevator. Being interviewed for 50 years must be incredibly boring. Rhapsody in Blue, Be My Baby, how my brothers and I would sing on our room, how I got the California Girl's bass line from Bach, etc, etc. Plus, there's also the fact that he does not like to perform. I think he just doesn't bother about fulfilling social protocols. For some people it's just harder than normal.

By the way, when the slurriness on his voice first appeared?

I wouldn't say that just because he's being more normal when he thinks he's off camera it means he doesn't have the enormous issues when he knows he's on camera. Maybe not neurological, but psychological. Maybe the camera gives him anxiety that triggers some of those symptoms we see. Anxiety can have an enormous physical impact on a person.

Sure, he DOES have issues, wether they are neurological or pshychological. I just don't know how to describe them and we've read a lot of people doing so with amazing knowledge of the matter, so I wouldn't add anything to that. I was just saying that it's hard to judge just by "the looks of it", especially because Brian has on and off days, even in concerts. I mean, he could maybe look better and still be going through a emotional hell, so...

By the way, in a 1998 interview he reveals, almost by accident, that he's not happy. He then tries to rephrase that and everything, but it seemed honest.
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MBE
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« Reply #113 on: March 05, 2013, 05:09:16 PM »

I would have sent Carl with them considering the late seventies.  I also would have had Brian and Mike sue Murry in 1970.
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« Reply #114 on: March 05, 2013, 09:37:34 PM »

Therapy doesn't always help, or at least not at a particular point in life if a person isn't ready for it. Brian certainly had a lot of therapy over the years, including the late '60s. People have to help themselves, when they're ready to make that change, and even the best therapist can only facilitate it.

I don't think demonizing Murry is the answer. If anything, the sons seemed to get some healing in Murry mellowing a bit in his later years and getting to spend more time with him and seeing him as vulnerable and human.  They were sad because they missed him, not because they hated him. The older you get, the more you realize your parents aren't gods/goddesses and their flaws and failings are often because they just didn't know any better or learn any better from their own parents or the society that they grew up in. I'm sure the Wilson brothers knew how badly Murry was treated by his dad, and Buddy Wilson was no doubt abused by his own father. I think Brian eventually forgave Murry, and that may have been partly through what he learned from some therapist or other (not Landy, who blamed Murry for everything). But it was at the point that Brian was ready for it. He may not have been prior that.
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Peter Reum
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« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2013, 07:44:06 PM »

The history of violence in the Wilson family is well documented in The Nearest Faraway Place. The estimate nationally is that approximately 75% of domestic violence occurs during use of mood altering chemicals. It is also well documented that numbing unresolved anger is a major trigger for chemical abuse. Children who are beaten emotionally or physically by their chemically dependent parents are prone to repeat this behavior when they become adults. Children who are abused emotionally by chemically dependent parents historically are more highly prone  to evince such mental health conditions as social anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, narcissism, oppositional defiance, and failure to bond successfully. Different conditions manifest in each family constellation. Add to this the already discovered genetic proneness to chemical dependence in families with a history of it in their ancestry, and there is no mystery regarding any family's behavior. To Brian's credit, while he was absent from his first family's lives often, he did not hit his children.
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« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2013, 09:04:03 PM »

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and say: if the BB's had never took off as a group, would the Wilson bros have done better? I actually asked a similar question on one of the earlier threads. In particular, it might have helped Dennis since he wouldn't have all that money to piss away.
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« Reply #117 on: March 07, 2013, 09:06:39 PM »

The history of violence in the Wilson family is well documented in The Nearest Faraway Place. The estimate nationally is that approximately 75% of domestic violence occurs during use of mood altering chemicals. It is also well documented that numbing unresolved anger is a major trigger for chemical abuse. Children who are beaten emotionally or physically by their chemically dependent parents are prone to repeat this behavior when they become adults. Children who are abused emotionally by chemically dependent parents historically are more highly prone  to evince such mental health conditions as social anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, narcissism, oppositional defiance, and failure to bond successfully. Different conditions manifest in each family constellation. Add to this the already discovered genetic proneness to chemical dependence in families with a history of it in their ancestry, and there is no mystery regarding any family's behavior. To Brian's credit, while he was absent from his first family's lives often, he did not hit his children.
The Nearest Faraway Pl, Heroes & Villains and In their Own Words are real good BBs books that go in depth.
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« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2013, 04:40:10 PM »

The history of violence in the Wilson family is well documented in The Nearest Faraway Place. The estimate nationally is that approximately 75% of domestic violence occurs during use of mood altering chemicals. It is also well documented that numbing unresolved anger is a major trigger for chemical abuse. Children who are beaten emotionally or physically by their chemically dependent parents are prone to repeat this behavior when they become adults. Children who are abused emotionally by chemically dependent parents historically are more highly prone  to evince such mental health conditions as social anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, narcissism, oppositional defiance, and failure to bond successfully. Different conditions manifest in each family constellation. Add to this the already discovered genetic proneness to chemical dependence in families with a history of it in their ancestry, and there is no mystery regarding any family's behavior. To Brian's credit, while he was absent from his first family's lives often, he did not hit his children.
Peter, I respect your knowledge and have learned things from you over the years. But do you think Brian would have ever struck his daughters?

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Peter Reum
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« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2013, 01:47:52 PM »

What I think is that I have worked with hundreds of men, who when sober, would not DREAM of striking their children or wives. Bu when they were mood altered, struck their children and their wives. Their anguish and guilt over that was a factor in their continuing that behavior, despite their terrible feelings when they cleaned up. The fact that Brian did not, even when mood altered, is quite significant.
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« Reply #120 on: March 10, 2013, 11:49:53 PM »

Brian isn't a violent guy, I think he spanked Carnie once and felt really bad about it. In fact I think that's why he shaved his head in 1977.
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« Reply #121 on: March 10, 2013, 11:56:14 PM »

That was on the TSS box!
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Quote
From the Good Book of Wilson. Chapter 4, verse 09:

"And the old master painter emerged from his barnyard proclaiming "I'm in great shape, for I have a big bag of vega-tables. And the heroes and the villains alike came together, and partook in the consuming of the Holy Vega-tables. And they were good. And on the seventh day he rested, for the surf was up".

Quote
Watching Nic Cage deliver a running uppercut to a young girl while wearing a bear costume is one of life's greatest joys.
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« Reply #122 on: March 11, 2013, 01:06:01 AM »

Brian isn't a violent guy, I think he spanked Carnie once and felt really bad about it. In fact I think that's why he shaved his head in 1977.
did he really shave his head or jus cut his hair real short? cuz from the pics Ive seen in 77 of his short hair it didnt looked shaved all the way down/
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« Reply #123 on: March 11, 2013, 01:55:30 AM »



This?
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« Reply #124 on: March 11, 2013, 10:04:16 AM »

Thats in '77 right?
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