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Author Topic: You Are So Beautiful, AGD... To MEEEEEE!  (Read 20589 times)
Nicko1234
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« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2013, 05:15:39 PM »



His main problem seems to be that Al and Carl were given songwriting credit and he has to share the royalties with them -- but they added the bit starting "it's about time" onward, so they deserve the credit too.

Did Carl get a credit?
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hypehat
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« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2013, 05:19:02 PM »

Nope.



HE WAS ROBBED!
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« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2013, 05:49:47 PM »

Burchman was pretty much coerced into the deal. He got credit and probably royalties, but his version of it sounded like he was manhandled a little bit at Brian's house.
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« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2013, 01:47:41 AM »

According to Dennis in 1971, he offered Charlie a label credit, but Manson declined, preferring cash. About $100,000 if I recall correctly.
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« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2013, 04:01:47 AM »

That and Manson asked for a motorbike. Wasn't the $100,000 what The Family had already sponged off Dennis whilst staying with him and Manson basically said let's call it quits in return for usage of the song? No way would they have paid $100,000 in (1969 money) upfront for an unpublished song from an unknown performer.
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« Reply #105 on: February 10, 2013, 07:12:02 AM »

According to Dennis in 1971, he offered Charlie a label credit, but Manson declined, preferring cash. About $100,000 if I recall correctly.

Especially by 1969 standards, that must have been quite a lot of money for an album track/B-side...
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Sound of Free
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« Reply #106 on: February 10, 2013, 11:03:46 AM »

Something of a mystery i guess that was at least partially solved by this story. The Beach Boys were not exactly known for covering recent Top 10 chart material by other artists in their concerts circa 1974/75. There was Wishing You Were Here by Chicago, but its obvious why they covered that, it was the closest thing to a BB's hit since 1968. But You Are So Beautiful was perceived as completely unconnected to them in 1975. People often asked, why did Dennis sing this song, a recent giant hit by Joe Cocker? Why did he pull that song out of thin air, and plug it into the Beach Boys set? And why did he sing it night after night, year after year? Even when he couldn't really sing it anymore, he still tried to sing it.

For the record, I DO believe Dennis had a hand in the writing, but even if he hadn't it wouldn't surprise me that he sang it in concert.

For one thing, people were used to hearing it sung in a raspy voice after Joe Cocker made it a hit, so it certainly suited Dennis voice from the mid 70s until he lost it after Rocky and Stan beat him up. But it also seemed like Dennis was singing it not to give himself a solo so much as to thank the audience. That the people in the people in the crowd were the "you" that was beautiful to Dennis, and singing it at the start of the encore was his way of letting the fans know how much they meant to him. As great as many of Dennis' songs were, I don't think there was another one that served the purpose as well.

BTW...the first time a larger than concert size audience saw Dennis sing this song was the summer 1976 TV special sponsored by Dr. Pepper and produced by Lorne Michaels, which is known by some as Its OK. That version was later shown in the American band film...and it is the definitive version in my opinion.


I also liked the one he did in Australia (it used to be on YouTube but it was removed). His speech to the crowd was really good, and he sang the song well. It's amazing with the whole saga on Australia how together Dennis was (or seemed to be) on the stage for those shows.
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KittyKat
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« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2013, 12:43:54 PM »

According to Dennis in 1971, he offered Charlie a label credit, but Manson declined, preferring cash. About $100,000 if I recall correctly.

Especially by 1969 standards, that must have been quite a lot of money for an album track/B-side...

According to an online inflation calculator, $100,000 in 1969 would be worth over $600,000 in today's money. I doubt the royalties from an album track on a mediocre-selling Beach Boys album added up to even a fraction of that.
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« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2013, 01:57:48 PM »

I never understood the success of Joe Cockers career. On one hand he is an excellent singer, but then again there are many of them out there. I value musicians for their songwriting as well as their singing and if Joe is just a great cover artists then I guess I will never value him anywhere near what I value the true musicians out there. I guess the majority of people will disagree with me on that given J.Cocks enduring success ^^
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« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2013, 02:02:42 PM »

I think Joe was incredible when he started out. The first three albums are incredible.
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« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2013, 04:52:17 PM »

I think Joe was incredible when he started out. The first three albums are incredible.

That's the time when he was ingesting the most substance, was it not?
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« Reply #111 on: February 10, 2013, 09:36:28 PM »

I enjoy the Mad Dogs era of Joe.  A lot of great musicians in that band. I also enjoy seeing footage of Joe's spastic performances. I've read of people who have claimed that Joe suffers from some kind of seizure disorder and that's why he performs that way. I doubt it, but I wonder if anyone ever brought up the possibility with Joe and he either found it funny or got offended.
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« Reply #112 on: February 11, 2013, 06:29:21 AM »

I enjoy the Mad Dogs era of Joe.  A lot of great musicians in that band. I also enjoy seeing footage of Joe's spastic performances. I've read of people who have claimed that Joe suffers from some kind of seizure disorder and that's why he performs that way. I doubt it, but I wonder if anyone ever brought up the possibility with Joe and he either found it funny or got offended.

Did you ever see the Saturday Night Live sketch from 1976, I think, with John Belushi doing his great Joe Cocker impersonation right alongside Joe Cocker, as they sang "Feelin' Alright" together. 'Twas hilarious.  Look it up. 

edit:  I found an article on a site called 'superseventies.com' called "Joe Cocker-In His Own Words", and here are some words from Joe.  Note that Belushi had been doing his impression of Joe Cocker for quite a few years, and had done "You Are So Beautiful" on an earlier episode of SNL... 

"This thing about me being spastic is something I can't get away from. I did The David Letterman Show not long ago, and he is still going on about me being spastic. I can't talk about anything else when I go on those shows.

During the time of "You Are So Beautiful," I was working at Village Recorders, in Los Angeles, and someone comes into the studio and says, "Joe, we've got this video to show you that you're not going to like." I don't know how long Saturday Night Live had been on the air, because I never watched much TV, but when I saw this video of John Belushi doing me being spastic and pouring beer, I became hysterical.

Everyone else said, "Joe, you're not supposed to find this amusing. You're supposed to find this gross and inoffensive."

I said, "Oh, come on. You can't not laugh at this." I didn't even know who Belushi was.

Moving my hand around is subconscious with me. A lot of the time I'm more or less conducting the band, just keeping a feel. I don't know why I do it. It's just one of those things."

 
And here he speaks about his condition at the time of "You Are So Beautiful"...

"I didn't know where I was by the time Jim Price came around to my house asking if I'd be interested in making another record, which turned out to be "You Are So Beautiful." After we finished the album, Jim booked the Roxy for me in L.A. Everyone was there. Somebody should have kept an eye on me, but some dealer found me backstage and filled me up with cocaine. I hadn't performed live in a couple of years. I drank a whole bottle of brandy, and then went out there and got through two songs, and then I sat down on stage with a total mental block to all the words. It was rather embarrassing. Everyone just sort of closed the curtain and said good night. That was supposed to be my return."
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:00:20 AM by LostArt » Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #113 on: February 11, 2013, 06:41:17 AM »


Again, I reiterate that I have always agreed with the position that Dennis co-wrote the song, though for the record I don't find the fact that "friends say that Dennis told them he wrote the song" to be particularly compelling evidence in it's favour. If anything, relying on that as evidence only serves to harm that position, to be honest.


I see. So if I'd been told the YASB story by Hinsche while writing a bio on Dennis, and then I'd subsequently mentioned it to 8 or 10 of the other Dennis associates and family members I interviewed afterwards, and all of them said "no, Dennis never mentioned anything about it to me"...that would make the story more believable to you?

Erm...no.
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Steve Mayo
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« Reply #114 on: February 11, 2013, 08:20:51 AM »

Something I just realized: it's not like Dennis never did to anyone what Preston did to him here. Remember 'Never Learn Not to Love'? For as far as I know, Charles Manson was never officially credited for that song. And anyone who ever heard the 'Cease to Excist' demo knows that the composition is 90% his. Of course Manson was pure evil, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal his music.

I always thought Manson was paid and signed a contract for that song?

He was paid, but if he signed a contract, the contract would be illegal.. You can't sell the authorship of a song to someone else. You can sell them all your royalties, but unless something's a "work made for hire", which has to meet some criteria Never Learn Not To Love doesn't, you remain legal author, which means you have to be credited and also means that for works created before 1978 all rights revert from whoever it was sold to to the original author after fifty-six (I think) years (that's my understanding of US copyright law, it works slightly differently in the UK).

That meant that even if Manson *had* legally signed away all his rights, he'd have still been credited on the record, and he'd start receiving royalties again in 2025.

Whatever deal was made between Manson and Dennis, it wasn't technically legal. Legally, Dennis stole Manson's work, just as legally Billy Preston apparently stole Dennis'. Morally, we have no idea what agreement was made between Dennis and Preston, and only a limited idea what went on between Dennis and Manson.

dealt with in the 1971 tom nolan rolling stone beach boys issues.
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« Reply #115 on: February 11, 2013, 11:18:09 AM »

...I guess I will never value him anywhere near what I value the true musicians out there. .

Hold on a tick.

A singer isn't a "true musician"?
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« Reply #116 on: February 12, 2013, 05:44:51 AM »


BTW...the first time a larger than concert size audience saw Dennis sing this song was the summer 1976 TV special sponsored by Dr. Pepper and produced by Lorne Michaels, which is known by some as Its OK. That version was later shown in the American band film...and it is the definitive version in my opinion.




yes it probably is the definitive version.
But the BEST version (that i know of) is from Madison Square Gardens 14 June 1975 Beachago tour. Dennis in fine fine form!
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« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2013, 04:20:39 PM »


Again, I reiterate that I have always agreed with the position that Dennis co-wrote the song, though for the record I don't find the fact that "friends say that Dennis told them he wrote the song" to be particularly compelling evidence in it's favour. If anything, relying on that as evidence only serves to harm that position, to be honest.


I see. So if I'd been told the YASB story by Hinsche while writing a bio on Dennis, and then I'd subsequently mentioned it to 8 or 10 of the other Dennis associates and family members I interviewed afterwards, and all of them said "no, Dennis never mentioned anything about it to me"...that would make the story more believable to you?

Erm...no.

Indeed. Jon is confusing access with journalism.
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« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2013, 11:59:26 PM »

oh come on, you guys are being dicks.
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