Which album is the Beach Boys' most polarizing release?

[NHC]

Smiley Smile first, 15 Big Ones second.

Yeah.  A lot more was expected of 15 Big Ones.  I like it for what it is, and it's not a bad album except by Beach Boy standards, if not by production value then by song selection, for many people. It was supposed to not only revitalize the fan base but raw in a whole new generation of fans. Not sure it did either.

[filledeplage]

Doesn't it depend on which segment of the fanbase we're polarizing ?

Yes, in context.  I find "shocking" was the Best of, Volume I, so close to Pet Sounds. There were indicators that the writing was heading in a "Pet Sounds" direction.  

But, at the time, as a teaser, it was helpful, as a relatively new fan, to go back, explore the music,and the respective album theme context. The timing will always be perplexing.  

[Don Malcolm]

I dunno - Whenever I see posts about the quality of Love You, most people here seem pretty into it. Smiley even more so. I'd say the BB albums that are most polarizing are ones like MIU, LA, BB85. These albums really split the board straight down the centre into those that find things to enjoy in them and those that revile them!

Perhaps, but I've never encountered anyone who has counted MIU, LA, or BB85 as one of the band's greatest albums.  The debate is more over whether the albums are completely unredeemable or whether they have a handful of good songs on them.  They are not "love or hate" albums so much as "hate or tolerate" albums.  "Love You," on the other hand, really does seem to be a "love or hate" album, with few opinions in between.

As far as the mathematical approach goes, I'm not sure I completely understand the formula for calculating, but if you split the votes into 5-4-3 and 3-2-1, won't the formula overrepresent albums that have gotten lots of middling votes (i.e., lots of 3s, some 4s and 2s)?  It seems to me that such an album would have a fairly solid consensus of opinion.  For it to be polarizing, I think it would have to have lots of 5s and 1s or perhaps 4s and 2s with very few 3s.

Actually, I tried to measure it initially along the lines of what you outlined above...but when it's done that way, certain albums can't even be measured because they have no votes below a 3. That's why the overlapping approach got used. But I agree that the approach used is not optimal.

In terms of the poll results at the board, it just doesn't seem that Love You exhibits the level of "polarization" that's being attributed to it. Its average (4.2) is comfortably in the top ten of BB albums as rated here. I do understand why folks view it in that way (the reception at the time, the production, etc.), but the voters here seem much more positively disposed to it. But the passage of time, and the greater willingness of the folks here to open their ears to the music, has probably removed a good bit of the negativity that was once part of the record's reception.

One more look at a math-based approach, and then we'll leave it alone. Looking at the ratio of 5's and 4's to 2's and 1's (and 0's), we get the following:

SD/SN, ASL  --- (not measurable, nothing below 3)
Sunflower 143, Pet Sounds 73, Today 54, Friends 40
20/20 39, Holland 32, WH 30, Surfer Girl 26, Surf's Up 26
Love You 11.3, Shut Down v2 7.3, Surfin' USA 5.8, Smiley Smile 5.45, CATP 5.44
Party 2.3, LDC 2.26, Stack o'Tracks 1.9, Light Album 1.8
Safari 0.52, MIU 0.45, BB85 0.44, Still Cruisin' 0.35, KTSA 0.3, 15BO 0.3, SIP 0.18

Now the scale is wacky, but it's a better way to see the ratio of good to great vs. poor to awful. The albums in the bold-type region are ones where the extremes are closer to even. That group includes three LPs that IMO make sense historically as "polarizing": SS, CATP, and Love You. That said, Love You is at the very top end of that range, with 11 times as many 4's and 5's as 2's, 1's, and 0's.

Apologies if this seems too geeky/wonky. etc.

[Bean Bag]

For me, personally it's MIU.  Not the definition of "polarizing" in the sense that it divides/polarizes ALL fans.  The hatred seems fairly universal -- the rest only like it for a song or two.  But there's a small "kook-fringe" that dig MIU.  And we're serious!

[DonnyL]

I still think we should factor in the general public as well. 'Love You' is an album that critics love but tracks from this record rarely make it to any 'best of' releases. Even MIU, LA and So Tough are represented on 50 Big Ones.

[I. Spaceman]

I'd say Carl And The Passions. Generally a Top 10 Lowest or Highest item.

[Bean Bag]

I don't think the general public (today) even knows what a Beach Boys album is, save Pet Sounds.  They only know the summer comps.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

For me, personally it's MIU.  Not the definition of "polarizing" in the sense that it divides/polarizes ALL fans.  The hatred seems fairly universal -- the rest only like it for a song or two.  But there's a small "kook-fringe" that dig MIU.  And we're serious!

Now you're talking! There's no reason to hate this record. The people don't like it because they've got that whole "Mike and Al are squares" thing going on. I like this record alot. Very solid and catchy.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I don't think the general public (today) even knows what a Beach Boys album is, save Pet Sounds.  They only know the summer comps.

I think you're right. In which case, we should simply shrug our shoulders and say "f*** the general public".

[I. Spaceman]

"f*** the general public".

Where is the tenderness?

[Cam Mott]

A Christmas album would one of the most Pole-erizing album. Tip your waiteress.

[AndrewHickey]

Now you're talking! There's no reason to hate this record. The people don't like it because they've got that whole "Mike and Al are squares" thing going on. I like this record alot. Very solid and catchy.

No, people don't like it because we don't like hearing Brian shrieking in what sounds like agony but is apparently an attempt to hit his old falsetto notes, bad covers of 50s songs with all the joy of the originals leached out, creepy songs that sexualise children, terrible attempts to stay relevant by mentioning disco, and songs based entirely on a ludicrously over-extended tennis metaphor.

[Smile4ever]

I don't think the general public (today) even knows what a Beach Boys album is, save Pet Sounds.  They only know the summer comps.

That's unfortunately accurate.

[Bean Bag]

No, people don't like it because we don't like hearing Brian shrieking in what sounds like agony but is apparently an attempt to hit his old falsetto notes, bad covers of 50s songs with all the joy of the originals leached out, terrible attempts to stay relevant by mentioning disco, and songs based entirely on a ludicrously over-extended tennis metaphor.

     You're describing everything I love about M.I.U.    

[Bean Bag]

A Christmas album would one of the most Pole-erizing album. Tip your waiteress.

[Peter Reum]

Definitely Love You....would have been Adult Child

[NHC]

I think there's one song on MIU I don't like, but can't remember what it is.

[Alan Smith]

I see someone pulled some stats earlier, but based on the results of 2 "party games" threads from last year, for this board it's gotta be Love You (which I find odd, as it's easily one of their best albums eva);

Latest Top 10 (Top 5 Thread - AS):

  1 Pet Sounds 281 [37]
  2 Sunflower 131 [7]
  3 Today! 128 [2]
  4 Friends 98 [4]
  5 Smile/TSS 83 [8]
  6 Love You 73 [8]
  7 Wild Honey 70 [2]
  8 Smiley Smile 76 [4]
  9 Surf's Up 49 [4]
10 Holland 34

Inspired by AGD's work in the Top 5 Beach Boys albums thread, and for those of you interested, I present the current results (Worst BBs albums - AS):

Rank - Title - Points - [First place] - (Average vote)

    1. SIP - 98 - [10] - (4.26)
    2. S&S - 64 - [10] - (4)
    3. BB'85 - 48 - [2] - (3.43)
    4. Still Cruisin' - 32 - (2.46)
    5. MIU - 29 - [1] - (2.64)
    6. KTSA - 28 - [1] - (2)
    7. 15BO - 20 - (2.86)
    8. Love You - 17 - [2] - (3.4)
    9. Surfin' Safari - 14 - (2.3)
  10. LA - 11 - (2.2)
 

[Paulos]

Now you're talking! There's no reason to hate this record. The people don't like it because they've got that whole "Mike and Al are squares" thing going on. I like this record alot. Very solid and catchy.

No, people don't like it because we don't like hearing Brian shrieking in what sounds like agony but is apparently an attempt to hit his old falsetto notes, bad covers of 50s songs with all the joy of the originals leached out, creepy songs that sexualise children, terrible attempts to stay relevant by mentioning disco, and songs based entirely on a ludicrously over-extended tennis metaphor.

I agree with Andrew.

[NHC]

Andrew reminded me there are at least two songs I don't like on MIU. Better take another look at the track list.

[Domino]

I think there's one song on MIU I don't like, but can't remember what it is.

Probably Peggy Sue.

[rab2591]

I love MIU - the sound is crisp, Al's voice is amazing, you can tell the group put quite a bit of time into the backing tracks and vocals. I'll never understand the hate for it.

[NHC]

I think there's one song on MIU I don't like, but can't remember what it is.

Probably Peggy Sue.

Nah, I can live with that one,  it's Hey Little Tomboy that I can't handle.  Then Andrew reminded me of the disco dancing one. And, taking my life in my hands here, I really don't care for My Diane, or that style in general.

[Micha]

I've never read someone finds Love You a mixed bag or mediocre. Some love it, some think it's terrible (so do I, albeit for the sound only and not for the songs).

I like side 1 of MIU a lot except Peggy Sue and am not so keen about side 2 except Pitter Patter. The dumb thing about MIU is that the song from it that pops up in compilations is the doo wop cover while there are strong original BB songs on it.

[MBE]

That MIU is not artistic is a fair given, that it's not listenable is false.